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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Why are so many thing my fault?  (Read 866 times)
xcpopof2

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« on: October 29, 2019, 06:51:21 PM »

This is hard for me to do.  I typically don't like to be vulnerable.  Talking about my relationship with my wife is something that I've done with a couple of therapists.  I'll do my best to keep this organized and with some sense of flow.  I'm not a writer, but I want to provide context and details because it feels good to type this.

In July 2018, while leaving a performance in a local park, I got a text message from the wife (J) of a guy (D) I was friends with several years ago.  Our relationship with (D) & (J) soured when my wife and (J) stopped talking due to (J) asking her to lie for her.  I didn't like (J).  I thought she was very toxic and just not a nice lady.  I tolerated her because (D) was a good guy to hang out with.  So, we stopped spending time with their family.  Back to the text.  it said, "I just found out.  How do you live with it?"  I was confused and I showed my wife.  I hadn't gotten a text from (J) in over 5 years.  I said I was going to call her or text back and my wife said to just block her and ignore her.  The mood changed and the whole ride home she was very distant.  While getting into bed, she was really upset and after several probing questions, she admitted to a full-blown affair with (D) that started in late summer of 2013 and ended in January of 2014 when my wife's mother died of cancer.

We sat there in bed.  She cried.  I cried.  My heart in pieces.  I just held her and reassured her that I loved her.  What else could I do?  Get angry? Say hateful things?  I honestly didn't know how to act or what to say.  She begged me not to leave her over and over.  I felt sick.  It was hard to breathe.  She's been my everything and we grew up together.   We married for over 18 years ago and have 2 amazing teenage kids.  We have been together since we were 19.

This whole affair never became public.  I protected my wife and we avoided seeing the other family even with daughters in the same grade.  My wife skipped all my daughter's school plays, events, and even 8th grade graduation to ensure she didn't run into (J) and risk the secret becoming public.  I took on all the errands: dry cleaners, grocery shopping, etc.  I still get anxiety when I see their van or must drive by their house.  My thoughts are haunted by the images of them together.  I promised my wife not to bring it up after the night I first found out.  I did last week.  In a moment of anger, I told her my attitude sucked because I'm over run with anxiety from her affair.  She got quiet and then super pissed that I brought it up.  I had kissed another woman, a friend living in another state, 2 years after the affair.  Nothing came of the kiss. I felt bad, came clean and my wife treated me like I had engaged in an affair.  The lady and her husband are good people.  We don't talk to them anymore.  Literally ghosted them.  I miss their friendship.

In August 2018, I started seeing a therapist for "getting help to address my son's behavior...doing most things half assed," but it was really to address the challenging and somewhat hopeless aspects of my relationship with my wife.  The kids are A students and incredibly independent.  People I don't know have said our kids are amazing.

My therapist told me rather bluntly that my wife is not going to change.  She described her behavior as BPD.  She suggested I read up on the diagnosis and learn more about the way forward. I stopped going to the therapist in October.   The intense questions my wife asked when I got home from each session were too much.  I lied each time I explained the sessions.  Not talking about the therapy led to long and painful arguments.  I felt guilty for lying to my wife.  Why do I have to lie about getting help for myself?

Part of the emotional challenges comes from my wife's demand that I never speak about our relationship issues to ANYONE...EVER.  I've been sworn to secrecy about my relationship almost since the beginning.  I've talked to a buddy and always had to lie about my conversations with him.  He's told me to get out so many times.  I love her.  She's the mother of our children.

I would describe my wife as very easily set off.  The 0 to 60 in a few seconds.  My son and I are the most likely recipients of her anger and sometimes rage.  My son forgets to vacuum the kitchen after dinner or wipe the handles off on the refrigerator...holy hell it's like he robbed the local corner market. Her reactions to bad news or sometimes simple situations result in loud and very venomous words.  She demands and expects me to support her 100% no matter what.  It's so hard to do that when she is clearly over reacting and emotionally abusing me and our kids.  Happy family moments can flare up into a verbal tongue lashing because my son doesn't have a napkin in his lap, or my daughter forgot to fill the dogs' water bowl.  Egg shells.  Time spent with my wife is pretty much walking on egg shells.

Outside our home and in her social media universe, we are the perfect American family.  Always doing cool stuff, posting pictures, living an amazing life.  So much love and togetherness.  It's all a show. Every picture is carefully scrutinized and taken over and over to the disgust of me and the kids for not being happy or not having a good attitude about the 4th or 5th picture.

My wife says she doesn't expect perfection, but it feels like it.  The bar is constantly moving up higher and higher.  It's like the horse chasing the carrot that is just out of reach and never caught.  She has said to me, and again I'm not allowed to bring it up, that whatever I think is good enough, multiply it times 1 million and I'm still not there yet.

I feel like a bad dad and a bad husband.  I get defensive all the time.  I take my wife's comments very personal.  My love language is words of affirmation and acts of service.  It feels like my wife uses this information to leverage me.  If I want her to give me words of affirmation, I need to give her what she wants first.  She is not the person that gives in to others.  She expects the rest of the world to make the initial effort.  My wife asks me and the kids to do pretty much everything.  If we say no or fail to follow through on her requests...here we go again.  When we ask her to do things for us, it feels like an inconvenience.

Romance and sex are almost nonexistent.  It is soul crushing to lean in to kiss my wife and she turns away from me, withholding affection because I didn't do something she wanted.  I made the mistake of comparing her to the character Melissa in the move The Hangover (Stu's wicked bitch girlfriend). That didn't go well.  My wife tells me she wants me to be the MAN in the bedroom and take charge.  I feel emasculated.  I struggle to even stay focused during sex to perform.  When I couldn't she blamed me for making her feel inadequate.   My lack of affection and romance towards my wife hurts her 1 billion times more than my own feelings of inadequacy or shame.

Last night was tough.  We are headed up to bed and my wife gets undressed and gives me the let's have sex look.  I jump in the shower and hustle to get into bed.  As I lean in to start kissing, she said, "This is another example of me initiating sex and you not taking charge."  I asked if she was picking a fight.  The back and forth ensues and the almost sex turned into a 3.5 hour fight that ends with me apologizing for starting the argument, all the mean things I said during it, and acknowledging how I haven't changed my behavior to be more romantic...to light the fire before we get into bed and I snuggle up wanting sex.  If I don't make the effort to woo her all day, I can basically forget about it.  If I love her, I would choose to change my behavior.

I'm an executive with a large corporation.  Work is my escape.  I get my words of affirmation.  I love my job.  I get to travel around the world for 1 to 2 weeks at a time.  Me leaving becomes a massive issue with my wife.  Each time she seems to get so upset a few days into the trip and calls me and texts me all the little things the kids did to piss her off.  What am I supposed to do from China?

My wife says that we should be on a united front with the kids.  She calls me the laissez faire parent.  I don't freak out and give out harsh punishments for simple things.  I do a lot of coaching and reinforcing the right behaviors.  My wife wants me to kick ass all the time.  The kids talked about their punishments given by my wife to a teacher at school.  Naturally DCFS got involved. I paid for a lawyer and the charges were unfounded.  That put a stop to my wife's more drastic approaches to discipline.  A few times, I've had to stop her from crossing the line.  She escalates situations that don't need to be to make a point that is pointless in the long run.

My wife is an OR nurse.  She is great at her job.  She's an amazing hard worker and a model employee. It's like she lives a different life at work and when we are out with friends.  We have a lot of close friends.  Most are my wife's.  My wife basically is involved with all aspects of the friend relationship I have with one of the husbands and probes me and this guy’s wife for info on what we talk about.

My wife struggles with conflict and CANNOT handle being "accused of something she didn't do."  There is Zero discussion here.  That's the guaranteed way for her to lose it.  She is masterful at taking things that she did wrong and make me or the kids the ones in the wrong and apologizing.  Example: I was hung over from a party the night before.  My wife had planned an event for us the next day at 10:30 am.  I asked her to drive and we took my car to the event.  While trying to parallel park, a skill she has criticized me for many times in the past, was struggling to do in my car.  I knew better and didn't say anything, and she got frustrated.  I have a backup camera, it's not that hard.  When she finally got the car into the spot, she pulled forward and curbed my tire and rim.  There was a loud grinding.  I had just been forced to replace all 4 tires about 6 weeks ago.  I said, "What the hell are you doing?"  She said, "if you don't want me to drive your car, then don't drink so much the night before and actually drive us."  She then demanded I apologize for how I talked to her and gave NO apology for how she treated my car.  I should know better.   

My instinct is to run when my wife gets set off.  It makes her even more upset.  I have tried to leave at the start of an argument and my wife physically blocked the door to prevent me from leaving.  She begs me not to leave and wants me to stay.  When I relent and stay, I end up apologizing all over again and taking responsibility for the argument.  I locked myself in a bathroom when my wife was in a rage.  She tried to come through the door while screaming like a crazy person.  When I finally opened the door to keep her from breaking it or hurting herself...it was all my fault again.  I was forbidden from "running away."  I've been called a pussy, a wimp, a weakling, pretty much you name it, I've heard it.

I'm interested in ways to move forward.  I love my wife.  I love my kids.  I'm afraid that my kids are going to think that the relationship between my wife and I is normal and ok.  It's not.  I've talked to them "off the record" but try so hard to support my wife no matter how inappropriate her behavior is.

She's all I've ever known.  I don't want to have to pay her a huge sum of money in a divorce either. The kids will be off to college in 3.5 years.  Do I hold on until then, move on now, or find a way to make this work?  It's been like this for 18 years.  The little things just feel normal.  Normal sucks.
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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2019, 02:19:43 AM »

You write well.  Wow.  That is not a healthy way to live.  I understand this well, since my story is so similar.  Met at the same age, never knew anything else, in love, teenage kids, executive job, similar behaviors from my wife, even quit seeing my therapist to appease her.

You asked what to do about the relationship.  There's no easy answer.  Give it time, while you learn coping tools here and build your strength.  

I allowed my fear of my wife's extreme reactions, and my fear of losing the relationship, to prevent me from doing some very basic things to take care of myself.  Stopping seeing a therapist was one of them.  You're under an insane load.  You need the support of a therapist.  I saw one near my work on my lunch hour.  Might this be possible for you?

Another thing is to commit yourself to learning some coping tools here.  They can't change her, but they can help you adjust your actions to reduce conflict.  Take a look at this link on how not to “justify, argue, defend, or explain” (JADE).  Does that info seem helpful?

Keep coming back here.  You need the support.  You are not alone.

RC
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Stillhopeful4
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2019, 07:14:55 AM »

Hi xcpopof2,

Your story is very similar to mine.  This board and these people have been such a tremendous help to me.  Just knowing there are others out there going thru or have been thru similar is helpful.  The tools section has helped me so much, along with the advise of many posters.

Please post often.  Wishing you all the best.

SH4
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missyou

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married
Posts: 38



« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 01:25:06 AM »

Hi xcpopof2,
Wow I felt like you were writing about my husband when you were describing your wife's behavior.  I am sorry you are going through this and I understand your pain. You are not alone. I am a newbie to this forum, and I am just beginning to share some details of my life and relationship that I had  previously been convinced never to share and sworn to secrecy by my H to keep private all his secrets, even though I knew it was destroying our relationship and hurting me.
I think it is healthy and healing to express our reality. I hope you find strength to do what is best for you and your family. Stay strong.
I think reaching out is a good start.
BTW you are a superb writer
Take care
MY
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Do the best you can until you know better, then when you know better you do better.
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xcpopof2

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2019, 04:01:28 PM »

I've been busy reading the site resources in my limited alone time.  Thank you to the kind words of those that commented on my first post.  I'm glad I'm not alone, but saddened at the same time because dealing with all of this really can suck the life from my soul.

Learning to Help Myself:
I read a book for a leadership course I'm taking through work.  The Power of Vulnerability by Dr. Brene Brown.  Trust cannot exist without vulnerability.  I mentioned in my first post that I don't like being vulnerable.  I started trying to be more vulnerable with my wife, less perfect, less know all the right answers, less fix everything.  With my kids and work, the response was amazing.  I became more human and others related more with me.  My interactions improved as the trust grew with different people.  I asked more questions rather than giving the answers all the time.  As a director, my first go to is directing.  My BPD wife reacted much differently.  It was like dumping gasoline on a fire.  I asked for emotional support or help with things.  I was so genuine and loving.  Somehow it became all about her and how I'm not supportive and I'm not there for her.  Lesson learned.

I asked a trusted friend to order a couple of books for me that I sneak away to read in private at work (the books stay locked up at work).  So much to learn.

I've focused on one key message to this point that has helped a lot.  "In crisis, stay calm, don’t get defensive, don't take it personally." 

My life feels like an endless transition into and out of one crisis to get into the next one.

What's been going on:
Since my first post, I've been pay closer attention to my behavior with the kids along with the kids’ behavior in general.  I catch myself doing more with them as a way to minimize the potential conflict with their mom.  I have continued to avoid under cutting my wife as a mom and shifted the focus of the kids to improving what they can control: their own behavior.  My wife sees me doing things to "cover for" the kids.  Guilty as charged.  In the interest of peace and my sanity, I'll address things the kids didn't do and follow-up with them later.  I don't like the yelling and the need for me to be on the same page with punishments and a general overreaction to tiny details. 

My son is the frequent target of my wife's aggression.  It doesn't take much to set my wife off.  My son is so desperate for her attention that it seems like he will take whatever attention he can get.  Conversations between my son and my wife typical start with my son trying to have a conversation with my wife about something that interests him.  A recent example: it was his PS4 video game that he was able to play the night before.  He doesn't get much PS4 time in the first place.  So, my son engages my wife casually in a conversation about the game and what he learned and saw.  He's excited.  My wife was clearly not interested (face in her phone at the dinner table).  She cut him off by saying something to the effect, you half-assed your chores, so I'm not understanding why you were playing in the first place. I feel for him.  He does more chores than 99% of any kids with the 1% working in actual sweat shops.

My daughter is much more aware of my wife's moods and triggers.  Of the three of us, she is least likely to be the target.  She is quiet around my wife and is careful with what and how she speaks.  This is a valuable skill for a business environment, but home is supposed to be safe and a place to grow.

Over the last 9 years, my BPD wife has increased the amount of time she spends on her phone/iPad or in front of the TV.  She used to cook more, help with cleaning, do more in general around the house.  She cooks less frequently and eats out a lot more.  Her social calendar is the envy of all her friends and Facebook stalkers.  She loves her "likes" and "comments."  She's gotten upset at me for not "reacting" to her posts...a like isn't enough, I must react. 

It's hard to have a conversation with her when she's responding normal texts, 4-5 different group chat texts, Facebook, Instagram, watching movies and shows on Netflix and Prime, or playing a variety of games on her devices.  She is on her phone pretty much all day.  Hundreds of pickups and notifications.  Thousands of texts per week.  When I ask her to be present, she snaps back that I'm always on my phone and I can't ask her to do things I won't do.  I almost laughed out loud. 

I use the screen time feature on my phone to manage how I spend my time.  I'm at 3.5 hours per day on average without including the GPS use in the car for traffic and directions.  Most of the time is at work.  Here's the problem, I'm defending myself even is a post to people I don't even know.  I can prove something with data, and it doesn't mean anything when my wife averages over 10 hours per day.  I'm taking it personal that she wants to live in her phone.  I've stopped repeating myself when she's disconnected.  That way when she is ready, I have her full attention. 

The time spent on the phone has led to a wave of boxes and packages arriving daily at our front door.  I'm afraid to ask or even look at the statement. If I disagree on the need for something, it is because I a scrooge and I'm trying to control the finances.  She says I'm the one that makes all the financial decisions and I never agree with what she wants.  I always say no and then I'm loaded with enough guilt from her that I cave for what she wants and that's how we end up with all new furniture in the living room. 

Back to the texting topic, my wife has a guy friend that's recently divorced with 4 kids that lives in a different state.  They were family friends of her parents and our kids know his kids.  The guy and my wife have texted I love you to each other...I saw it pop up when I was next to my wife, I didn't and don't snoop through her phone.  My wife claims its platonic and I don't need to worry.  Keep in mind she cheated on me with a guy that I thought was my friend and I was clueless for over 5 years.  Surprisingly, my self-confidence, although badly beaten up, is still pretty good.  I'm not jealous or feeling overly threatened by this guy.  He really is a good person, so I trust him more than I trust my wife.  In some twisted thought process, it feels like a relief that if she does want to be with this guy, she can go on her way and my problems go away.  Not a reality, but the thought has crossed my mind.  I simply asked if anything was going on and started a huge argument that ended with me apologizing and feeling like it was my fault. 

It feels like my wife has her life with her family and her primary digital life with the rest of the world that knows almost nothing about the real her. 

My wife will be on her phone for 1-2 hours in bed at night to "calm her mind."  She's too tired or distracted for sex, but not too tired to be on her phone for hours.  This turns into her being tired and worn down on a regular basis.  I just go to sleep (my days start early at 4am).  Several times, including last night, I've woken up to her self-servicing while enjoying an adult video on her phone, maybe 30-45 min after I tried to initiate sex.  This is one of those ultra-painful things that talking about with her becomes my fault.  If I was more attentive all day to her sexual needs (she calls it preheating the oven), she would be more likely to have sex with me (it feels more like a reward or conditional behavior).  So, I was calm last night.  I told her I missed her, rolled over and went back to sleep. 

With that, I'll get back to the endless transition into and out of one crisis to get into the next one.
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 12:03:33 AM »

That's fantastic that you're getting traction with vulnerability and trust at work and with your kids.  I'm sorry to hear you had the opposite experience with your wife.  There's a tool set here that's applicable to our pwBPD.  You've probably been reading up on it a bit.  Have you spotted any tools that might be worth trying with your wife?

I'm also sorry to hear about the amount of screen time she's spending, and her lack of attentiveness to you.  That's hard, especially given the amount of yourself you are giving to your family.

RC
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xcpopof2

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 01:44:50 PM »

RC,

I read your reply and I came across the validating vs. invalidating and examples on the site (I pasted them below). 

I almost threw up.  A huge wave of shame came over me after the realization that I have used most if not all of these statements below.  Focus on this to help deescalate things is a huge shift in behavior. I can do so much better here.   

Part of the challenge is that I am stonewalling my wife.  I'm exhausted.  I'm not out of love with my wife, and being loving or really caring is hard to do.  I'm out of love with the cycle of crisis to crisis.  I'm working to check back in mentally and emotionally. 

I'm not seeing a therapist mainly because I expect a challenge (as I have in the past) from my pwBPD around how I am spending my time away from her and the risk that I will talk about our relationship or her with the therapist.  I am using my free time browsing and reading while "in private mode" or "incognito mode" to read up and not leave a digital trail of breadcrumbs just in case my wife gets on my phone or computer. 

Words and phrases that are invalidating to others (not just those with BPD):
   • Ordering them to feel differently- ":)on't be mad. Get over it."
   • Ordering them to look differently- "don't look so sad."
   • Denying their perception or defending - "that's not what I meant"
   • Making them feel guilty- "I tried to help you"
   • Trying to isolate them- "you are the only one who feels that way"
   • Minimizing their feeling- "you must be kidding"
   • Using reason- "you are not being rational"
   • Debating- "I don't always do that"
   • Judging and labeling them- "you're too sensitive"
   • Turning things around- "you're making a big deal out of nothing"
   • Trying to get them to question themselves- "why can't you just get over it?"
   • Telling them how they should feel- "you should be happy"
   • Defending the other person- "she didn't mean it that way"
   • Negating, denial, and confusion- "now you know that isn't true"
   • Sarcasm and mocking- "you poor baby"
   • Laying guilt trips- "don't you ever think of anyone else?"
   • Philosophizing and cliches- "time heals all wounds"
   • Talking about them when they can hear it- "you can't say anything to her"
   • Showing intolerance- "I am sick of hearing about it"
   • Trying to control how long someone feels about something- "you should be over that by now"
   • Explanation- "maybe it's because _____ "

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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 02:30:42 PM »

The level of intellect and commitment you're bringing to bear here bode well for you getting the best possible outcome.  Keep it up.  Thanks for sharing that list of invalidating comments with us.  I am similarly guilty of being invalidating, learning late in the game how damaging this could be.  The shame is not helping you.  We bring many things from our family of origin.  It'd be great if the relationship tools we're learning now were in a required class in high school.  But we are where we are.  Try to ditch the shame and think of accountability going forward instead.

Have you tried validating your wife, particularly her emotions, to see if it helps?  It doesn't always work, but it can be used to turn some situations around, and it's generally a good and effective way to roll.  It works well with children and upset people at work, too.

RC
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Bhb
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 03:37:33 PM »

 I am new to this site. This is actually the first message string I have looked at. I am amazed at the similarities to my situation. I am reminded that when I first started on this journey, I was introduced to the three C’s. I did not cause it. I can’t control it.  And, I can’t cure it.   Those were helpful in taking some of the blame off of me and helped me to look at things more objectively.

My wife wanted me to stop seeing a counselor (we did both personal and marriage counseling with her). I am so grateful that I did not acquiesce to that request.   The counselor  has been instrumental in helping me identify the patterns of behavior,  help me take care of myself, and help me to help my children.

This is definitely a journey! I can certainly feel your pain. It is really hard.  This seems to be a great forum to receive support. Thank you for sharing!
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xcpopof2

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 6


« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 09:31:06 AM »

Update: In a rush so sorry for the mess.

Huge massive argument on the 10th. Not to get into the details too much, but my pwBPD got upset that we haven’t had sex. If you read my earlier posts it’s pretty clear why. She projected all of her feelings on to me. I panicked and got defensive.  I tried to leave to get fresh air and calm things down. She proceeded to block my exit and go into a emotional tirade. The whole argument wasn’t stupid and should Never have exploded like it did. When I was finally able to escape, I just drove for 30 min. Talked to a friend that I trust and calmed down. She tried calling 10 times and texted another 10 times. No exaggeration. When I finally called her back and said I needed space, she called the kids 15 and 16 into the room and told them I (their dad) was leaving them and we were getting a divorce. The kids had a school play in less than 2 hours and we’re pretty upset. My son punched a hole through the living room wall. I had to come home to get things under control with the kids. Eventually I end up taking responsibility for EVERYTHING. The whole argument and all the things that were said and that happened. In total, maybe 20+ individual things she wanted me to apologize for.  It was hell. We went to the play. Things were civil. Came home and I rubbed her shoulders and somehow that led to sex which our kids came home to hearing.

Wasn’t mad at my son. I fixed the hole in the wall and we talked about other ways to let out his anger. Both kids are starting to see something is wrong. My daughter’s boyfriend broke up with her and she didn’t tell my wife. She told me, I was supportive and upbeat. She said my pwBPD would not let her say that it happened and would make her talk about it. My daughter hates this, being forced to talk about things and when she refuses, my pwBPD escalates and evening gives punishments for not talking to her. I tried to referee and calm things only to become the new target.

How can i make things better for the kids? They don’t want to engage their mom pretty much at all and that makes my pwBPD even more pissed.

Things have settled down since then. At least until this morning.

We had a big party on Saturday night. My pwBPD  posted on FB about the party. This morning at work I was clearing out the notifications and I hit the Tag Me on the pictures FB saw me in. I didn’t even look at them. I was in a hurry but I have the compulsive need to clear out the red bubbles on my iPhone apps. That was a huge mistake. My not “Loving” her post or adding a lovey comment to it resulted in her calling me at work and telling me how I don’t love her and I’m not treating her right. I apologized. I said I didn’t have time. She called me a liar. I guess I didn’t make time and by not making time...at work...I’m an asshole. After 20 min conversation about me being an ass and me trying to validate her feelings, I had to go to a meeting. That becomes me running away.

Next steps: I shut off the red bubble notifications for Facebook. I will stop answering calls from my wife unless I have time to talk and a private place to talk. My job is being impacted by her calling and texting. I need to set boundaries.

I feel like I’m missing something. My pwBPD is really good at starting a conversation and feeding it with frustration and irritation. It grows and I am struggling with how to make it stop.
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 10:24:33 AM »

That all sounds so stressful and frustrating, xcpopof2. I've experienced that sort of thing (minus the kids -- only have my husband's son, almost 9, and he's only with us half the time).

Like you, when I started reading around this site and in books, I was stunned and horrified to discover that I had (innocently) been saying and doing things that were making it worse. Yikes.

If you don't mind my asking, when she called you at work, how did you respond? Can you repeat the conversation verbatim (or as close as possible)? Not trying to be nosy. But I've found in my situation that phrasing and word choice can have a huge impact. Also, even if I think something is silly or ridiculous, that doesn't mean my H sees it that way. If I hide my thoughts on that, I get a calmer response.
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 01:07:41 PM »

I've been up since 4am busting my butt: been to the gym, managed the kids and dogs at home, made sure all was done at the house, sat in traffic to get to work, started working on the way to work as I was running late, and finally got coffee around the time my wife called.  She got out of bed around 8:15 am right after she finished crafting her post. 

Context: Friday afternoon she was out with her friends, so after work I stopped to have a drink with 2 coworkers that are female.  We took a picture together as one is moving and the other was headed out of town for 2 weeks.  One of the ladies posts the picture on Instagram and my wife gets upset that I'm out with two women (note that I work with and have a work friendly relationship and my wife has me both and is friends on Instagram).  This picture was posted Friday evening and my wife brings is up last night as we are falling asleep.  Says that I wouldn't approve of her being out with guys and posting pictures.  I didn't post the picture, but that doesn't matter because I should not have even posed for it in the first place.  I'm thinking that as this was kind of unresolved last night, it carried into this morning and BOOM here I am. 

Phone call...ring ring...
Me: Hey babe, what's up?
BPD: You didn't like or comment on my post. You only requested to be tagged on your pictures.
Me: I didn't have time to scroll though the FB feed.  I just cleared out the notifications which included the tags.  I didn't know the tag thing sent a request to you.
BPD: Yes, it does.  If you had time to clear the notifications, you had time to react to my post.  You are lying to me again.  Clearly, I'm last on your priority list.  It’s more important for you to clear notifications than read and react to my post.
Me: good morning. 
BPD: Oh, now you say good morning?
Me: yes.  How does not reacting or commenting on your post have anything to do with how I feel about you?  I'm at work and I'm busy.  <meanwhile I'm finding the post and punching the "LOVE" button>
BPD: You never put me first.  I'm always an afterthought.
Me: You are not an afterthought.  I love and care about you very much.  If I felt unloved, I'd feel hurt too.  I'm sorry I didn't react or comment on your post.  I have a meeting starting in 5 min and I need to get things ready and head over. 
BPD: You always run away when you don't like what I have to say.
Me: Not running away.  I'm at work right now. 
<More apologizing by me, more silence as I try to move to a quiet place where my coworkers are not front and center to my conversation>

Finally, she hangs up in disgust. 

I go to my meeting and comment on the post.  She deletes the post, accuses me of being robotic and asks that I be less robotic.  I make a new post with a bunch of heartfelt details that I feel but don't feel comfortable posting for her followers (not my style, but Jesus if I don't, this crap will drag on all day).  Then she said it was 1000% better but questions whether I meant what I posted. 

The whole interaction feels like a waste of time. 

I've tried to set boundaries with her around calling me at work or testing me.  She (pwBPD) says she should be first on my mind all the time.  When I prioritize other things or people I get called out.  Her favorite line is, "I'm at the bottom of the totem pole."  Needless to say, if I don't answer, she will keep calling if she has deemed it as important.  Complaining about the kids is a top of the list must have a discussion type of topic.  Generally, it's my fault for not being hard enough on them. 
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2019, 11:52:20 PM »

heres a generalization...

people with bpd traits overreact. its a big part of the crux of the disorder.

and its difficult not to react to the overreaction.

but the key is to stand back and see the forest through the trees. often times, there is something underlying, and typically something real and valid, whatever they are complaining about or overreacting to on the surface.

this wasnt really about you not liking or commenting on her post.

Excerpt
Clearly, I'm last on your priority list.
You never put me first.  I'm always an afterthought.
You always run away when you don't like what I have to say.

thats what this was about. she wanted attention, and she wanted reassurance. and another thing about our loved ones is they often use dysfunctional ways, or ways that push us away, in trying to get those things.

and it sounds like you very much, understandably, felt pushed away. but that only reinforced her feelings.

so generally speaking, remember first step back. ask questions (validating questions help: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0). often times, youll find that eventually your partner will start to return to baseline, and start to be a bit clearer in communicating what she wants, or what she sees as the real problem. from that point, it can become much easier to work together.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2019, 05:21:27 PM »

once removed has some good insights and advice.

Your call with her at work started out with some defensiveness on your part.  The validation later was a good move, but the die may already have been cast.  As you said, the better answer may be to not answer the phone when you are at work and can't talk.  Which could even be large parts of the workday, or even all of it if necessary sometimes.  Relationship problem-solving could be put off limits for workday calls.  You could say something like relationship conversations are too important to you to do over the phone, especially at work -- you want to be face-to-face so you can listen with all of your attention.  Remember, though, that the other party doesn't have to agree to boundaries, and that when we get well-practiced at boundaries, we can state them matter-of-factly, with no heat.

You asked how you can mitigate the impact to your kids.  You can do a lot of work without directly countering your wife (which could fuel conflict).  As you are already doing, make sure that you are a safe, non-judgemental person for them to talk to.  Make sure you validate their feelings and tell them it's OK to express their feelings.  Engage them and be present as often as you can.  Spend alone time with them.  If they directly confront you about your wife's behavior, allow them to express their feelings.  You could ask them how they wish she had handled things.  You don't have to take a position against your wife; just by allowing them to express how they would have liked things to go differently, you're making it safe for them to have a different reality from your wife and to believe in their own perceptions without self doubt.  By doing these things you can have a huge protective influence.

RC
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