Advice about my situation?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

So, just like every other month, my BPD mom started sending endless texts about how much she hates my husband and negative things about my kids (and that I should visit her more! After all the insults!) I started off by letting her know that when she does that it is insulting to me and hurts my feelings. Since I wasn't joining into a fight with her, she escalated her insults by making up hurtful lies about me as a child. It got worse and worse. I finally had to tell her that we shouldn't talk anymore. She does this every few weeks, and it almost makes me feel like I will have a heart attack. It affects me that badly. I've let her know that what she does is considered abuse. She doesn't think so. She thinks I don't validate her feelings. The thing is, I talk to her for hours every week and listen to her feelings and stories. I try to help her come up with solutions to problems, compliment her, and treat her really respectfully. When she decides to start sending out the unprovoked abusive texts about how awful everyone is, how am I supposed to be validating of that? I can't be validating of her feelings that my husband is a loser or that she hates her grandchildren. Just 2 weeks ago, she sent my husband a birthday card saying she loves him. It is wildly confusing. I will be going to my first counseling appointment on Monday, but I wanted to see if anyone would give me some advice about this. I want to learn how to not be so consumed with constant thought and guilt about my mom. Do I have to validate her feelings while she is insulting me? Am I doing something wrong? It's so hard to please her, and I don't have endless patience to always placate her. And also, how do I continue a relationship with a woman who terribly insults my family? I feel like such a traitor to my family continuing a relationship with her after she says such horrible things about them. It doesn't seem right. I stand up for them, but am I really standing up for them if I keep going back to a relationship with her? And also, aren't I just telling myself that I'm not worthy of mutual respect if I just go back to talking to her the moment she says she loves me? She rarely says she is sorry. If she does, it is backhanded. Oh, and after all of the abusive texts, she started sending things like "You will miss your mom when she is dead."    I am so exhausted by all of it.

[kma79]

So, just like every other month, my BPD mom started sending endless texts about how much she hates my husband and negative things about my kids (and that I should visit her more! After all the insults!) I started off by letting her know that when she does that it is insulting to me and hurts my feelings. Since I wasn't joining into a fight with her, she escalated her insults by making up hurtful lies about me as a child. It got worse and worse. I finally had to tell her that we shouldn't talk anymore. She does this every few weeks, and it almost makes me feel like I will have a heart attack. It affects me that badly. I've let her know that what she does is considered abuse. She doesn't think so. She thinks I don't validate her feelings. The thing is, I talk to her for hours every week and listen to her feelings and stories. I try to help her come up with solutions to problems, compliment her, and treat her really respectfully. When she decides to start sending out the unprovoked abusive texts about how awful everyone is, how am I supposed to be validating of that? I can't be validating of her feelings that my husband is a loser or that she hates her grandchildren. Just 2 weeks ago, she sent my husband a birthday card saying she loves him. It is wildly confusing. I will be going to my first counseling appointment on Monday, but I wanted to see if anyone would give me some advice about this. I want to learn how to not be so consumed with constant thought and guilt about my mom. Do I have to validate her feelings while she is insulting me? Am I doing something wrong? It's so hard to please her, and I don't have endless patience to always placate her. And also, how do I continue a relationship with a woman who terribly insults my family? I feel like such a traitor to my family continuing a relationship with her after she says such horrible things about them. It doesn't seem right. I stand up for them, but am I really standing up for them if I keep going back to a relationship with her? And also, aren't I just telling myself that I'm not worthy of mutual respect if I just go back to talking to her the moment she says she loves me? She rarely says she is sorry. If she does, it is backhanded. Oh, and after all of the abusive texts, she started sending things like "You will miss your mom when she is dead."    I am so exhausted by all of it.

[Panda39]

Hi kma,

How about setting some boundaries around your communication with your mom?

Maybe shorten the length of your calls, talk less often, or tell her that you will hang up if she continues to badmouth your husband (and do it!).  You do not have to sit there for hours listening to this stuff, it is okay to end the call if she becomes abusive.  Boundaries are about protecting ourselves not about punishing someone else.



More information on boundaries...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

I know it can be hard to set boundaries, particularly with a BPD parent that likely raised you to have none when it comes to them.  Guilt and discomfort will likely follow setting a boundary but push through it. 

Take Care,
Panda39

[kma79]

Thank you for the reply Panda39. You are right about setting boundaries. I think I am so uncomfortable doing it because it always led to conflict. I have seriously never heard the end of it that I decided to stay at hotels for a couple of visits back to visit my mom and brother. My brother was an alcoholic, so I couldn't stay at his house either. They were so uncomfortable and angry with me setting a boundary. I will keep in mind what you said about boundaries protecting ourselves, not punishing someone else. Thanks again:)

[Choosinghope]

Hi kma79!

Something that I have spent a long time talking about with my T is that boundaries by their nature are not about controlling someone else's behavior. It's simply teaching someone where lines are and what happens when they are crossed. I'm in the same boat with you in being a little afraid of actually setting the boundaries, because I know there is going to be some pretty negative reactions. My experience has been that when I enforce a boundary or explain a boundary to my uBPD mom (e.g. If you choose to call when are angry, I will not be able to speak with you and will hang up the phone), she simply sees it as a malicious threat (e.g. I KNEW you didn't ever want to talk to me again). Like you were also saying, she also tells me all the time that I'm always so quick to stand up for myself (not true) but I am never willing to listen to what she has to say (again, not true). In her mind, though, my having boundaries does not really validate her thoughts and feelings.

 So, my T's advice to me is to be firm, fair, and consistent with my boundaries, and act like a broken record. My first attempts at setting boundaries will probably be difficult, end in ugly feelings, and will seem to make the situation worse. But, she assures me that consistently sticking to my boundaries, no matter the reaction, is the right thing to do. I'm really right there with you in this struggle, but I hope that helped a little!

[kma79]

Thanks Choosinghope! I appreciate the advice on being firm and consistent with boundaries. I think I've set boundaries in the past, but I tend to not be consistent with them if I'm trying to please my mom. I need to get better at that. I really relate to you saying "In her mind, though, my having boundaries does not really validate her thoughts and feelings." This is probably why my mom does not feel validated when I won't continue to listen to her insults. It's so hard to navigate through this, and I appreciate the advice and insight. Thanks again for the reply:)

[GaGrl]

Pleasing yourself (by taking care of yourself) is as important, maybe more so, as pleasing your mother. I'm sure by now you've learned that you can rarely fully please your mother!

Some things I've learned about boundaries that have been helpful to me...

1) It's good to make behaviors, so you can recognize them for what they are and not take them as personally. The bad behaviors when you enforce a boundary (the escalated rates and insults and crying, etc.) Is an "extinction burst." The person meeting your boundary often behaves worse before getting better about accepting your boundary. It helps to be able to meet had behaviors by saying to yoursrlf, " Oh, yes -- here goes the extinction burst. "

2) Validating has its place. Don't get it tangled up in holding your boundaries -- they are two separate things. Validate your mother's feelings when they are valid. Don't validate the invalid -- that doesn't work, especially when the invalid feelings are turning into abusive statements. Valid -- she feels you don't visit often enough; you can validate that it must feel lonely sometimes. Invalid -- she feels your husband is mean/whatever and begins to be verbally abusive about him, none of which is true; she's crossed your boundary and you tell her you can't/won't keep talking with her when she insults your husband or children (then hang up and ignore the phone and texts for 24 hours).

3) When you enforce or hold a boundary, let the person being affected have room to "sit with it." He or she might have a massive extinction burst. It may be less dramatic, but still uncomfortable. If you jump in and try to soothe what you just put into motion, you will undo the boundary. Pull back, work on soothing your own uncomfortable emotions, and let the other person self-soothe ( however long that takes).

My mom lives with us and has a few BPD traits, one of which is shame when she is asked to change a behavior or when we disagree with something that she feels threatens her social persona. My husband and I get the silent treatment, and we've learned to let her work through it hersrlf, without trying to alleviate it. Example -- when we retired, we moved to our house she had been living in for three years. She had created a picture of what life would be like once we moved in. She is very involved in her church, and it is almost her entire social structure. I have not belonged to that denomination for almost 50 years, and it is one I now have a number of issues with. When she realized I would not be attending services with her each Sunday, it resulted in a three day silent treatment. Was I going to have in and change my religious and spiritual practices? No. She got through it. No rages, but as I said, silent treatment.

[Panda39]

So, my T's advice to me is to be firm, fair, and consistent with my boundaries, and act like a broken record. My first attempts at setting boundaries will probably be difficult, end in ugly feelings, and will seem to make the situation worse. But, she assures me that consistently sticking to my boundaries, no matter the reaction, is the right thing to do

Choosinghope I think your T is on the money.

I've often shared this analogy because it is something most of us have seen before, and I think the behaviors can true of any boundary (although with an adult can be more sophisticated...or not  ...

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eating good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want and if it gets them what they want once screaming in the grocery store will likely work again. What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store...the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

She thinks I don't validate her feelings. The thing is, I talk to her for hours every week and listen to her feelings and stories. I try to help her come up with solutions to problems, compliment her, and treat her really respectfully.

It is not your job to make your mother feel better, or solve her problems, those are her jobs she is an adult.  Yes, you can validate her feelings (don't validate the invalid though), but I would try putting her problems back on her to solve, by asking questions. For example  wow, mom that situation (whatever it is) sounds tough (validated her feelings) what are you going to do?...What does the doctor say?...Did you call the plumber?...  No, I'm sorry I can't come over, I have to work...I've got a friend coming over...I have an appointment...

Just some ideas,
Panda39

[stargazer95]

hi friend,

I can really relate to what you are describing. My mother used to do the same thing. She would say hurtful things about my husband and children. She also kept saying that she is going to get cancer because of me and that when she is dead I will regret my actions. It sucks. I know the heart attack feeling you mention. I have been no contact with my mom for a while now and still any little news of her shakes my body up. I am learning that this is  partly how trauma gets stored in our bodies and my body literally tenses up when I am reminded of her because my body is trying to process the trauma and the repetitive abuse.

Someone else mentioned this but I want to echo it too. Your job is not do please her or make her feel good about herself. In fact that is impossible to do for BPD parents as there are deep issues with self esteem that they suffer from. Their need to be validated is like a blackhole, you can never fill it enough. I have seen that actually by trying to fill that void fo her, I am not doing either of us a favor. She just asks for more and I get more and more exhausted of giving. Many of us raised with BPD parents, become the parent in the relationship always providing for our parents emotional needs and counselling them. I have personally grown so tired of that and realized that she never "mothered" me and my inner child needs my own attention instead of my attention being directed towards filling her needs. Its not my fault she has BPD and not my responsibility to cure it.

My mother also really reacted badly when I was setting boundaries. But I really do think that once we accept the messiness of enforcing firm and consistent boundaries in the beggining it will get better with time. I think everyone else here has said plenty about setting boundaries.

All the best 

[kma79]

Thank you everyone for your advice and help. It sounds like it comes down to setting boundaries with my mom and not backing down if I think she is unhappy. She is always unhappy, no matter what I do. I really appreciate what you all said about it not being my job to please her or make her feel better. We all have to do that for ourselves. I am trying to have no contact with my mom after all that happened, at least until after I have a couple of appointments with my counselor.

Stargazer95 - The physical feeling we get is so awful. I also get that feeling almost every time I am reminded of my mom. I feel like I was always on edge or waiting for an emotional blow from her, so I am always guarded and trying to prepare for the next attack.

Gagrl - I really appreciate your advice about thinking of my mom's lashing out as an extinction burst. That is so true of what she does when I have tried to set boundaries in the past.

Thanks again for the responses. I'm going to keep working on keeping my boundaries. I appreciate the help so much!

 

[PeaceMom]

Kma79,

I’m learning about Somatic Experiencing or Body work for trapped trauma. The book “The Body Keeps the Score” is brillant. I, too, become physically overwhelmed when dealing with many of my family members  who struggle w/BPD symptoms. Mindfulness and body awareness are my only tools right now and I’m really trying to refine them (if that’s even possible).

My mother wasn’t mothered so therefore didn’t mother me. I have something called “CEN” Childhood Emotional Neglect. It is a full time job trying to reparent myself and check all those missed boxes.

I recently attended a FOO trauma weekend and worked thru radically accepting my mom and all her limitations. I completed the Giving Back Misplaced Shame work and the Radical Acceptance work, now it’s 100% up to me to reparent myself (w/T’a help). This is extremely challenging bc I’m dealing w/ adopted DD20 uBPD but I’m trying!

[kma79]

Thank you PeaceMom! I am going to look up the book that you have mentioned for trapped trauma.

[Methuen]

Eight months ago I was at the end of my rope with my mom.  Since then, I have learned and used new skills (boundaries, SET, using validating questions, not JADEing...ever), and I can say I actually have a quality of life now.  The FOG was bad in the beginning, but it lifted.  Once you use these tools consistently, and start looking after yourself, the clarity comes.  For me, I was able to see the role I played in the whole drama, and using these tools, I was able to stop adding fuel to the fire.

For example:

So, just like every other month, my BPD mom started sending endless texts about how much she hates my husband and negative things about my kids

So this is completely unacceptable, and not deserving of a response.  These are the texts to ignore.  This is a fishing line with a big fat hook on the end.  You are the fish.  You see the hook.  You know what is going to happen.  But you still bite it every time.

 

I started off by letting her know that when she does that it is insulting to me and hurts my feelings. Since I wasn't joining into a fight with her, she escalated her insults by making up hurtful lies about me as a child. It got worse and worse.

You bit the hook when you gave her this response.  A big chomp that was a direct hit.  She caught you good and hard at the end of her fishing line.

Instead of biting the hook again next time this happens, ignore the text.  An extinction burst of texts will  follow.  Ignore them all.  That will will give you some power instead of you just taking another bite and getting caught again. Instead of ruminating over her texts,  go for a walk, or a run, or swim laps or burn off some energy in some other way that will occupy your mind with more positive results than "ruminating".  If you think about it, she does this because it has always worked for her in the past (she needs drama).  If you don't respond, she will have to get her drama from elsewhere.

I don't respond to my mom's texts or emails that are "hooks" any more.  Eight months later, she rarely casts the fishing line to me anymore.  I know she will again eventually, but I also know how I will respond to it, and that makes me feel like I can handle it.

it almost makes me feel like I will have a heart attack

Yep.  This is probably a super active amygdula in the brain.  When I was like this about 7 months ago, my T told me she wanted me to go NC with mom for a few weeks to let my amygdula settle down (regulates our "fear", anxiety etc).  When I was feeling emotionally safer, I reached out to my mom by inviting her for a coffee in a public place (safe).  I proceded in very slow steps from there, always using my new BPD friendly skills (SET, validating questions, boundaries, and NOT JADEing).  Sounds like your T is suggesting NC.  Remember that NC doesn't have to be forever.  That can sound scary.  NC can be temporary for as long as you need to recover, learn some new skills, and feel safe to try them out, if you decide you want contact down the road.

It can get better kma79.  Hard to believe right now, I know.

I started to recognize my role in it all, about 4 months ago.  uBPD mom's are always going to throw out the fishing lines.  We have to learn to recognize the bait and just stop taking it.  Stop playing our part in the drama.

She thinks I don't validate her feelings. The thing is, I talk to her for hours every week and listen to her feelings and stories. I try to help her come up with solutions to problems, compliment her, and treat her really respectfully.

Like someone else said, this isn't your job.  And as you've figured out now, you will never be able to do/achieve what she wants.  Her need is like a hole in the ground that has no bottom...the "need" never ends.  

For example  wow, mom that situation (whatever it is) sounds tough (validated her feelings) what are you going to do?...What does the doctor say?...Did you call the plumber?...  No, I'm sorry I can't come over, I have to work...I've got a friend coming over...I have an appointment...

I really liked this example from Panda about how to use validating questions.  It's a great technique, because it validates her feelings while at the same time putting the responsibility back where it belongs...with her.

You've got great suggestions in this conversation about boundaries.  

You'll get there kma79.  Cheering you on!

[kma79]

Thank you Methuen. You're right, I totally bit the hook by responding to the texts. I feel like I know it is a mistake when I respond, but it is so hard to ignore her. Maybe the NC time (and counseling) will help me get better at this. Thanks again for the good ideas and encouragement.