Made every mistake in the book but looking for advice on how to attract her back

[Dcflyer]

My story is winding and very long with countless mistakes on my part.  I take full responsibility and these are not my proudest moments (40 and should know better). I’m on this board for help not advice on moving on. There is plenty of resources to help me move on, I’m reaching out for suggestions and help.  Prior to meeting this woman (35) I was unaware of BPD. Over the past year we have been together I have started to learn more about DBT and ways to stop digging myself a hole. My ex attended therapy for a month with me and my therapist quickly identified her as a high functioning BPD possibly with NPD. That said here is where I am now...

We met in September 2019 and there was instant attraction but as I was living with another woman for the past three years I didn’t make any moves. I never broke up with my live in long term girlfriend as I wasn’t planning on anything developing. Over the course of a few months we were flirting over text messages and I invited her on a trip with me the week before thanksgiving 2019.  I told her that I was casually dating someone else and that she was not the only woman in my life. I did not disclose the seriousness of the live in relationship. On this trip she made a move and we were intimate for the first time. After our trip my long term girlfriend came to thanksgiving so ignored my newly found pwBPD despite her asking me to be with her family in the same town. After thanksgiving I went back to my employment city and we would meet every Thursday for sex in a middle spot since I could not have her at my home.

December came and I invited my pwBPD and her two kids skiing. We had a wonderful time and after we spent the week together she had to take her children to her ex. Before leaving she begged me to break up with the other girl and give her my attention. She also asked if she could come back to the ski cabin after dropping off her kids.  I had my live in girlfriend fLying in the day she left so I was unable to allow her to come back. She was pretty devastated again.

The relationship started to get rocky as she became frustrated she was unable to have me to herself. In February the two women found out about each other and that’s when the real fun began.  Ironically they found out about each other the day that I decided to break it off with my live in girlfriend. Unfortunately it was a day to late as they made contact with each other. My pwBPD started to develop a relationship with my ex-live in and triangulated us.  My pwBPD caught me telling half truths and some bold lies to get out of the mess I had created.  She was angry with me for the lies and sent me back to my city of employment where she then recycled me for the first time.

Stating she was unable to be with me, she asked me to see her I’m February. At this time she went through my phone and found websites of women and felt betrayed that I would sleep with them. I had not but it was much for her to handle.

We continued the relationship with her doing a massive push pull dance until in July she found out I had not disclosed a health issue to her. We broke up for the month of august when she painted me black. Come September she said she wanted to see me again and take it slow (recycle number two). On our anniversary I gave her a “love” bracelet which she said was way too fast and too much pressure (I see this now too late of course). We agreed again to take it slow and she booked us a trip to the mountains in October that she was looking so forward to. On the trip in October she asked if I ever think about other women sexually. Under the pressure of a lie detector test she was threatening I fell for the trap. We did a major push pull dance that weekend with her initial anger and then she compartmentalized the issue and we had the best time for the rest of the weekend. When we returned it all hit her and she broke up with me again. Finally on Columbus Day of this year we had lunch and she asked me to come to the beach with her and her two kids. I booked us a house and we had a magical time at the beach. Upon returning to my city of employment I gave her the ultimate pressure and told her I wanted a family and to be married in 18-24 months. She became very upset and texted me back that she was unable to give me what I wanted and she would not contact me further unless I reached out. Instead of chasing her I stayed in my city of employment and didn’t reach out for over a month at which time I had made alternative plans for thanksgiving and Christmas. She was enraged and while she texted me for about a month the texts were less and less emotional. I suspect (but have not confirmed she started dating someone before thanksgiving). Right after thanksgiving she learned that I had been on two dates with a family friends daughter. My dates ended and nothing transpired but I was accused of moving on when she was waiting for me working on herself. I went down to her town to visit my mother before Christmas and asked my pwBPD to have dinner. She said she couldn’t because she had started dating someone the day before and was in love with him. She told me about him and that he is someone I will know and find out about soon so she wanted to give me a heads up in the interest of being polite unlike how she found out through the grapevine.  I initially thought the man not to be true but she did divulge enough that I believe I know who it is and he is an older successful man. (I’m about 15 years younger and have two homes, fly my own plane, and am plenty comfortable but he is externally successful). That’s my story and it has been one hell of a ride. I’m a very patient man who never raised his voice to her. Her kids love me. One of her kids told her that I’m more fun that her current love of her life.  I have given her space when asked but also made the mistake of leaving her when she told me I needed to contact her.

During this time she has kept a relationship with my previous live in ex. Reached out to every one of my exes to find out how bad of a guy I am (my exes are exes for a reason with only two of them saying nice things about me). Combed through my emails and traced my phone. I have legal items open from her work but nothing legal teams can’t put away. Basically she has done it all.

I have made countless mistakes including:

Lying in the beginning and dating two women
Giving her an ultimatum and engulfing her. (She was offering a fun relationship with her and her kids to travel and have a blast)
After the ultimatum she told me she wouldn't contact me and expected me to reach out. When I didn’t chase she felt abandoned and justified in her fears.
When I didn’t respond to her and stayed in my City of employment for two moths she lost object constancy.
She invited me to thanksgiving again but I had plans and that’s when I believe she started seeing this other man as she was feeling abandoned again.
She was justified in her fear of abandonment again when she found out I had been on dates and met the woman I two different locations which she perceived to be a vacation with another woman.

For the past month she has told me and my family it’s over there is no future for us it will never happen (something she never wanted my mother to know during the recycles) but she wants to stay friend with my mother.  She has removed the kids and told me it will cause too much confusion for them with her new love of her life (don’t disagree).  She has told me she can never trust me again and it is too painful to ever revisit this relationship even though we could have been magical because I shattered her. I don’t disagree and recognize my part.  She has told me she never goes back to relationships or reopens them and only looks forward, but there were hints she was talking to past exes during our relationship and she had one man she always went back to for sex. (I’m not a jealous man so I had no problem with this or ever made a bit deal of it). She told me she doesn’t want to speak anymore out of respect for her current love of her life and man she wants to marry. (Something new as I know she spoke to other men when dating me).

After this extremely long post my question is two fold:

1) should I go to her town and establish object constancy?  The last time I was there she saw me and sped away.

2) how do I position myself best to try to re-attract her?

Please don’t provide the obvious answer of why do you want this.  I’ve made my choice to see this through as long as it takes. I appreciate assistance not judgement nor advice on healing moving on etc. I am working on myself, taking classes in DBT and reading as much as possible. I see my T regularly and am regulating my emotions trying to detach but this woman is everything I have ever wanted in a woman and the pain of a lifetime is a small price to pay for a minute of her time. I am built to take a lot of PLEASE READ from my own upbringing and I never get angry so with knowledge I may be able to make this work. It is my choice so please only provide helpful assistance or suggestions on how I can move forward.

Sorry for typos this was typed on my phone.

Thank you.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds as if you two both have very active social lives. It’s not like either of you are sitting around at home, waiting for the phone to ring.

If I were in her shoes, I’d probably think of you as a playa, having a live in lover while seeking another conquest. This first impression has undoubtedly colored her opinion of you.

Yet, she’s done a lot of research on you, showing that she’s interested.

If you really think she’s the one, you will have to reset her impressions of you. How to do that? IDK. But certainly giving up dating others would be a start.

On the other hand, she sounds like a playa too. Seeing a guy for sex while she’s dating you. How much of the story about the older successful guy is true and how much is trying to show you that she can play the game as well?

[Dcflyer]

I do not want it to seem like I am a player, I just was taken by my pwBPD and it was unexpected. At first I thought we would just be travel and sports buddies but it evolved so quickly. I told her I had another woman I was seeing upfront (I didn’t tell her it was a live in girlfriend), and that I wasn’t sure she and I would work due to the long distance and her two kids. It seemed like a lot to overcome until I became her favorite person.  I’m not sure what’s really going on with the other guy other than she told me that he is the love of her life and that she doesn’t want to mess it up because she knows she will marry him. I’m currently not dating anyone. I went on some dates that family had set up for me but none of them led to anything other than some nice dinners and new friends. 

I’m not sure if I should chase my pwBPD or leave her alone. Last time I left her alone and she ran to another man telling me I abandoned her. Again she is pushing me away but does she want me to chase or leave her alone. It has been 10 days since I have heard from her. This is the longest we have gone with her not reaching out to me.

Any advice on how to proceed would be helpful. How do I correct the wrongs?  I have Apologized and written countless letters.

Should I go see her or will that enrage her and she will call the police? 

Should I sit back and wait for her to call me letting her solidify with this new man? 

[Notwendy]

I know this is difficult, and perhaps it's confusing that this section reads "reversing a break up". What this means is trying to salvage a relationship by reducing our own contribution to the drama between two people. What we can not do is control someone else's thoughts or personal choices, BPD or not.

Learning about BPD patterns and typical feelings such as abandonment fears is not about attracting them by acting in a certain manner, it's about being aware of how they may be feeling and not reacting in ways that make it worse for them, but we can not control someone else's feelings.

Sometimes it's possible for a person to decide to resume the relationship and sometimes it isn't- but that is up to the person. If a person truly wants to end the relationship, they can do that whether or not we want them to.

None of us can read minds. There is no way to know what this woman is thinking or what she will do. However, she has stated that she doesn't want to mess things up with the person she is with. Can you respect her wishes to see things out with him- it may not be what you want, but if it is what she wants, then you can respect that wish.

Whether or not to contact her or show up is up to you. How she reacts, there isn't a way to know that. She may have BPD, but she's still a person in her own right, and can make her own decisions. There isn't a special way to act on her because she has BPD and influence or control her thoughts or feelings and doing so could be disrespectful to her.

It seems she values trust, whether in an open relationship or not. If there is any chance of regaining trust with her, it's about your actions, not her. You would need to be consistently honest with her in all your dealings with her. For any of us, the best chance we have to make things right with anyone is through our own behavior and also acknowleging that the other person can and will make their own choices.

[Dcflyer]

Not Wendy et al,
I really appreciate the response you are 100% complete. I do love this woman and I fear she has moved on and there is no one else to blame but myself.  I am beating myself up daily for what I have done. I have been very respectful and have given her the space she asked for. I have not heard from her since December 22. Previously she would call every 4 - 7 dates religiously despite having this man in her life.

How should I establish trust with someone with bpd when there is none left?  When I’m open and loving with her she tells me I’m pressuring her. When I don’t share as much she tells me I’m playing games.  I can’t use logic and she’s constantly telling me how much I hurt her. (This fact I have no doubt as I saw the pain).

I’m willing to be patient and slowly work on building trust and a relationship back. I’d love to know if reaching out to her or being patient and waiting for her is the better path. Also do you thing being in town is better for her given object constancy or does it put too much pressure on her? 

[once removed]

How should I establish trust with someone with bpd when there is none left?  When I’m open and loving with her she tells me I’m pressuring her. When I don’t share as much she tells me I’m playing games.  I can’t use logic and she’s constantly telling me how much I hurt her. (This fact I have no doubt as I saw the pain).

I’m willing to be patient and slowly work on building trust and a relationship back. I’d love to know if reaching out to her or being patient and waiting for her is the better path. Also do you thing being in town is better for her given object constancy or does it put too much pressure on her? 

she feels that youre playing games because ultimately, at the end of the day, you are trying to manipulate her feelings rather than understand them.

i dont say that to be harsh, and i dont say it to imply that youre deliberately trying to do so.

you get that mistakes were made, but you dont see the big picture.

this relationship was built on a very shaky foundation, where there was no trust. making establishing trust the goal now is futile really.

i would let go of the worries about "object constancy". i am guessing that you read that if she doesnt see you, she will forget about you. the term is really "object permanence" (object constancy is more about splitting) and i imagine the two of you spent some amount of time apart in the course of your relationship and she did not forget about you. showing up at her place, and other hail marys are not the answer here, they will backfire.

the very short version of "how to get her back" is that there is no overt effort you can make that will work in your favor. if she is with someone new, if she is in contact with your mother and your ex, you need to be pretty far away from all of that, and you need to let her relationship play out, survive or die on its own. you need to use that time to do two things: become the best version of yourself, and determine what a very new, completely different relationship with her would look like. her current relationship will need to die on its own, and she will have to consider that this guy she was with has really gotten his  together and is now looking mighty attractive. its all order. most people move on, and dont revisit the past.

you will want to be in contact, but sparingly. if she hasnt contacted you in a while, its probably that the last week (and for the next few days) are very busy holidays. dont push, let her come to you. when and if she does, be cool. dont push, dont talk about the relationship. if she brings it up, or talks about how you hurt her, the best thing you can do is listen, dont argue, dont JADE.

[Dcflyer]

Thank you for the advice, I will continue my journey of working on myself and becoming the best person I can become. This may be a long journey but I’m going to be patient and let her come to me.  I was thinking of sending her a happy new year text but perhaps I should wait for her to contact me. She’s with her kids and likely the other guy this week.

I sincerely am heartbroken and am just trying my  best. Had I known this was such a lovely person I would have started clean. She is hurting, but also distracted at the moment.

[Dcflyer]

Thank you those that have provided advice.  As an update, I left a voicemail for my ex on New Years Eve and told her that I miss her and her family and will continue to be here when she is ready. I haven’t heard anything from her since December 22 when she told me she was in love with the new guy.  If anyone has any thoughts or ideas I’m open to suggestions.  I’m not sure if I should be putting myself out there for her and telling her honestly how I feel or if this will push her further away. I continue to wonder if I should go back to her town and just be around. It would be far too painful to see her with another man and she is being very respectful to my feelings thus far so I don’t want to push her boundaries either.  That said, if I am in town and not 200 miles away, she may be more willing to see me or have me hang with her and the kids.

Thanks.

[Notwendy]

She's told you she's with someone else and has not returned your messages. What makes you think she's not telling you the truth about this- that she wants to not mess things up with him? If she's told you she wants to be exclusive with this man, what makes you think otherwise?

[Dcflyer]

Sadly at this moment I have no reason to believe otherwise and I do believe she is trying not to mess it up. I am not suggesting that I mess it up for her and am not trying to interfere. That said, she is easily triggered her town is far too small for us not to cross paths again.  I would like to be there in the event there is an opening sometime in the future. Not sure how best to do that. Do I remain in contact, not reach out, be available in her town?  Do I try to be her friend?  Just looking to be there if the opportunity comes.

[Notwendy]

Do you really want to make changes to your own plans on the chance she might have an opening for you? You would need to move, change jobs. Seems she's the center of your focus, nothing else matters quite so much as that.

What about your own goals, job prospects, interests? Or is it just that you would rather live for her- base your whole life on her feelings?

I know that sounds rather dramatic and you probably have other things going on in your life but the point is- really- you are basing all your decisions on the chance she might have a place for you, one day- maybe next week, maybe next year...

If you keep doing what you are doing,  you are creating a void in your life that only she can fill. Is that really a good choice for you?

You see the answer isn't about her. I don't know what she's going to do if you move back, hang around, hoping, waiting. But you are the one to make this choice to do this or not do this. There's no way of knowing how she might respond.

[Dcflyer]

The decision to move back to her town (where I have immediate family) is really not difficult for me. My job is flexible and does not require me to be in any single location. I would likely keep my other home and would anchor in her town but still have my city house. I am very flexible and there isn’t much going on anywhere these days so it would be easy for me to move. Logistics are simple and don’t stress me or require a huge life change. 

I understand your point, I am not sacrificing anything either way other than I might be more available in the event she shakes free. I can always watch from a distance and see what happens.

[Notwendy]

I think that is a decision with unpredictable results. Her having BPD doesn't make it any different from anyone else. She has the ability to make her own choices. Trying to act a certain way to influence a person with BPD - using what one knows about BPD- is still a form of manipulation, and there really isn't a method for doing that. They are still individuals.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and while there may be certain behaviors in common, people are different. To be attractive to someone with BPD is similar to being attractive to anyone. You can be the best person you can be, but a part of this is up to the other person and what is attractive to them, personally.

The choice is really up to you if you want to move near her to pursue the situation on the chance she may want to restart the relationship with you. There's no way to predict what she might do.

[once removed]

have you had any contact since you posted? if so, what was the nature of it?

i agree with Notwendy that this isnt going to be about moving, its not going to be about any given one or two overt "moves", especially if her attention is on another relationship.

the last thing i wanted to hear when i was going through my breakup was the idea that the solution was to work on myself. the truth is, its really the single most attractive thing you can do. getting to that healthier place, people can sense that, and theyre drawn to it. theres a lot of history here, and, frankly, a lot if traumatic for both of you. the prospect of something new with you is going to be a great deal more attractive to her than returning to what the relationship was. and its not something you can fake.

at the same time, i get that you want to do whatever you can do, even if your options are limited, and, again, they are. youve got to learn to play the best cards when it comes to hand youve been dealt.

[Dcflyer]

I have had no contact since but I believe that she is starting the push pull on the other guy as she is changing her Instagram photos. She’s removing ones that were with him and putting ones of her kids up. This is her typical cycle that she will go through.

I am not sure if she will reach out but if not I may send her a friendly text next week. I haven’t made a decision about moving at this time.