How do I begin...

[Depression = 72% of members]

How do I start here. What do you do when you've been the stable one for so long you can't take it anymore? I really feel like I'm losing myself and my mind. My pwBPD is in therapy and I see a therapist also to help navigate a relationship like this. I praise my PwBPD for their work in therapy, try and keep them mindful of their skills and when in heated conversations try to be the one to show these skills (G.I.V.E., DEARMAN, STOPP, Active Listening, etc.). I do my best to keep myself, my reactions, my emotions and words in check, and yes I don't succeed. I fail, we are all human, but I have been understanding, sought clarification on things that were said and done. How do you keep being understanding and keep giving and keeping space when you have had things happen that have hurt you and made you feel so utterly worthless and disrespected?

[LostHurtandTired]

How do I start here. What do you do when you've been the stable one for so long you can't take it anymore? I really feel like I'm losing myself and my mind. My pwBPD is in therapy and I see a therapist also to help navigate a relationship like this. I praise my PwBPD for their work in therapy, try and keep them mindful of their skills and when in heated conversations try to be the one to show these skills (G.I.V.E., DEARMAN, STOPP, Active Listening, etc.). I do my best to keep myself, my reactions, my emotions and words in check, and yes I don't succeed. I fail, we are all human, but I have been understanding, sought clarification on things that were said and done. How do you keep being understanding and keep giving and keeping space when you have had things happen that have hurt you and made you feel so utterly worthless and disrespected?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[healthfreedom4s]

LH&T,
Welcome to the group!
You are already doing great with 1) learning/practicing the skills 2) seeing a therapist.
There are just 2 things I want to suggest:
1) Make some time for self-care and doing things that you like.
2) Work on building relationships / activities / identity outside of your relationship with BPD partner.
These will help you see things in balance and may help you avoid feeling worn out.

[LostHurtandTired]

LH&T,
Welcome to the group!
You are already doing great with 1) learning/practicing the skills 2) seeing a therapist.
There are just 2 things I want to suggest:
1) Make some time for self-care and doing things that you like.
2) Work on building relationships / activities / identity outside of your relationship with BPD partner.
These will help you see things in balance and may help you avoid feeling worn out.

Thanks for the Welcome, Health.

I have no idea what self-care is anymore, with working full-time, kids, dealing with the household needs, cleaning, chores. Broken sleep, and trying to navigate the need of my BPD Partner. I don't have much time left.

I feel like I have my own identity still, though there is a feeling of it slipping away. As for hobbies and activities, I have so many... but the depression has made them almost joyless slogs anymore. The only thing that has put a smile on my face recently are the time I spend with my children.

I always read, you cannot pour from an empty cup, and I try and tell my PwBPD this, and it turns into a mess usually. Even my therapist says I need self-care, but I honestly have no idea what that is anymore. Or how to even attempt to obtain it.

[babyducks]

Welcome LHandT,

Let me also welcome you to this website.    Everyone here understands what it's like to be in a relationship with someone who has mental health challenges.   We get it.

We know it's exhausting.  It's often difficult to find space and time to relax.   My partner (now Ex) was diagnosed as Bipolar 1comorbid with BPD, she had the sleep disorders that often go with the Bipolar.    I certainly understand broken sleep.

Do you feel up to saying a little more about how you found us and what's going on with you?    We are here to listen.   You mentioned children?   How old are the kids?   

If you feel like doing some reading on the top of this board is a thread called LESSONS.    it contains posts and links that will move you all around this website.   I would recommend it as a good place to start with bpdfamily.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=347836.0

'ducks

[LostHurtandTired]

Welcome LHandT,

Let me also welcome you to this website.    Everyone here understands what it's like to be in a relationship with someone who has mental health challenges.   We get it.

We know it's exhausting.  It's often difficult to find space and time to relax.   My partner (now Ex) was diagnosed as Bipolar 1comorbid with BPD, she had the sleep disorders that often go with the Bipolar.    I certainly understand broken sleep.

Do you feel up to saying a little more about how you found us and what's going on with you?    We are here to listen.   You mentioned children?   How old are the kids?   

If you feel like doing some reading on the top of this board is a thread called LESSONS.    it contains posts and links that will move you all around this website.   I would recommend it as a good place to start with bpdfamily.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=347836.0

'ducks

Thank you for the welcome 'ducks,

I have read through the lessons forum, and a lot of it is setting boundaries, being the strong, patient, understanding, giving one... Which I have been for quite the while. I think I allowed myself to believe that things were getting better, because they were. Life got busy, and I was not prepared for the fall back down. I read a lot on BPD, and many things really. I came here after trying to figure out either what the heck is wrong with me, or how I can help navigate this storm I currently find myself in.  Also, I tend to jump around in topics I read about, from psychology, sciences, philosophy, etc. I was on psychology today reading about BPD and researching books to read into, and found my way here. I really have no support, as I tend to be used as a therapist by almost everyone else I know. It's hard to be that for people and not be able to find that support yourself.

I have 2 children both toddlers at this moment. They are my world, and honestly my reason to keep moving forward. The thing is, a lot of pain and disrespect has happened in the last 6 months, and I allowed myself to believe in things I shouldn't have. I really feel I set myself up for this fall, and the landing has been hard. 

I also realize, I've been the one to enable, react from a place of hurt, and get caught up in pointing out where my PwBPD has fallen back on promises and words they've given. I can be critical, but I tend to be rational and logical, so navigating this world of over the top emotions is difficult. I read how the non's have to be strong, patient, understanding, etc. How does one keep that up? Especially after being hurt, and not being able to have normal relationship expectations?

[healthfreedom4s]

LH&T,
I can relate to what you describe. I have been coping up with depression with medication for several years and have two kids. Your kids are younger, with more needs. I see that your plate is full.
Is your pwBPD functional? Can you ask your pwBPD to pick up some household responsibilities? They sometimes will surprise us. They may pick up something, which can have twin benefit - it will keep them engaged (reducing time/scope for outbursts) and it will free up time for us. Is there a way you can bring this up? Are there any type of chores that your pwBPD would prefer?

[babyducks]

I read how the non's have to be strong, patient, understanding, etc. How does one keep that up? Especially after being hurt, and not being able to have normal relationship expectations?

Hello LHandT,

Well, I wish I could tell you it was easy.    I really wish I could tell you there is a button to push or a switch to flip.    but I suspect you wouldn't believe me if I did.   

Life got busy, and I was not prepared for the fall back down. I read a lot on BPD, and many things really. I came here after trying to figure out either what the heck is wrong with me, or how I can help navigate this storm I currently find myself in.

I can relate.    something similar happened to me also.   what I found was that a lot of navigating I needed was not intuitive.   not intuitive at all.    and applied to me,  what I was doing and how I was going about it.     
 

  I really have no support, as I tend to be used as a therapist by almost everyone else I know. It's hard to be that for people and not be able to find that support yourself.

I'm glad you know about boundaries.    that gives you a step up.    boundaries are (of course) there to protect us.   and one thing boundaries can do is protect us from over spending our energy.    "No" is a boundary.   So is, "I don't have time for that right now."  So is "that's a great idea, I'll get to it after I take a nap."

most of us are caretakers by nature.   we take care of the people around us at the expense of ourselves.    and somehow feel its wrong or impossible to drawn boundaries about how much energy we pour out into our day.   for me,   I often got my feelings of self worth and satisfaction from how well I took care of the people and things around me.    and when the care taking wasn't going well I tended to do more, try harder and berate myself for not doing it perfectly.    which  was kind of an endless spiral of over doing and feeling like crap because of it.

making a deliberate conscious choice to rest was, and sometimes still is,  like four dimensional math for me.    I have a strong inner critic, that inner voice that tells me I should be doing this better, doing more and never need to take a break or heaven forbid - make a mistake.

. The thing is, a lot of pain and disrespect has happened in the last 6 months, and I allowed myself to believe in things I shouldn't have. I really feel I set myself up for this fall, and the landing has been hard. 

can you say more about what has happened in the last 6 months?   most of us arrive here in crisis or at the end of our ropes.   I arrived in crisis.    my partner and I had a horrid argument and I ended up breaking my own hand as I was exiting the argument.   the break required surgery, a plate and 4 screws.     I was incredibly twisted up in how I felt about that.    after all it was my own fault.   I should have known better.   it was certainly quite hard to grapple with the idea that my most intimate relationship, what should be my safe space, could generate that kind of intense emotional and physical violence.

'ducks

[Rev]

I have no idea what self-care is anymore, with working full-time, kids, dealing with the household needs, cleaning, chores. Broken sleep, and trying to navigate the need of my BPD Partner. I don't have much time left.

Hi LHT,

You've got some real great advice in this thread so I am not going to add any.

This sentence really jumped out of me. Partly because I would say that I was there three years ago. And regardless of the particular personal situation you may find yourself in, I think it is a safe thing to say that your observation is endemic to life in our N/A or Western Societies.

Self care, like many concepts that make their way into the world of pop-psychology, has become an almost throw-away truism. 

Would it be helpful to you to have an in depth conversation about self-care beyond the stereotypes?  If so, I would be happy to invest some time with you about that topic.

Regardless, I have deep empathy for people who are in contact with how mis-aligned these relationships can leave us feeling - how soul crushing they can become for some of us. Not sure where you would consider yourself to be on that spectrum, so I'm not wanting to jump to conclusion.

In the end, please accept my support for healing and the balanced life that every human deserves. It has been my experience that the majority of people who come here are good people who are hurting and want to stop hurting and certainly don't want to hurt others.  So hang in there. The clarity you are searching for will come.

Rev.

[waverider]

I think you are experiencing BPD fatigue, or Burnout. Even if you have a handle on it, when it seems to take over your entire life, living with it, studying it, talking about it and generally always thinking about it, even when there is no current dramas it burns you out.

I had to step away from this forum for quite a while because of this and focus on filling my life with anything except BPD, yes this meant that I no longer focused on the coping lessons, and my reactions and responses became less than ideal, causing the wheels to fall off at times, but I had to make it "not my problem" otherwise I would have imploded. There comes a time when you have to stop analysing it, you cannot go on forever band aiding someone else's issues.

Yes there are a lot of conflicts, but there is always going to be, but now I have a fuller life outside of BPD and all the other assorted comorbid issues involved. Life is still a compromise, but it is a better balanced compromise. Many chores slide and "keeping up appearances" is no longer a priority. My only priority is to "have a life". You are not going to go to your grave wishing you had done more chores in your life, or red up more on BPD. Achieve some of your dreams, tick some of your own boxes, even if they are only small ones, at least they are yours. Missing out breeds resentment, the longer it goes on the bigger the blowback when it happens.

All those hours spent googling BPD and how to cope with it can be far better spent googling your own interests and how to go about achieving them. You don't need to know everything there is to know about BPD, just an awareness, and the basics. Believe me those who have researched it inside and out are equally effected. Extensive knowledge on the subject does not make you bulletproof nor healer. Building your own life is far healthier in the long run

[60av8tor]

I think you are experiencing BPD fatigue, or Burnout. Even if you have a handle on it, when it seems to take over your entire life, living with it, studying it, talking about it and generally always thinking about it, even when there is no current dramas it burns you out.

I had to step away from this forum for quite a while because of this and focus on filling my life with anything except BPD, yes this meant that I no longer focused on the coping lessons, and my reactions and responses became less than ideal, causing the wheels to fall off at times, but I had to make it "not my problem" otherwise I would have imploded. There comes a time when you have to stop analysing it, you cannot go on forever band aiding someone else's issues.

Yes there are a lot of conflicts, but there is always going to be, but now I have a fuller life outside of BPD and all the other assorted comorbid issues involved. Life is still a compromise, but it is a better balanced compromise. Many chores slide and "keeping up appearances" is no longer a priority. My only priority is to "have a life". You are not going to go to your grave wishing you had done more chores in your life, or red up more on BPD. Achieve some of your dreams, tick some of your own boxes, even if they are only small ones, at least they are yours. Missing out breeds resentment, the longer it goes on the bigger the blowback when it happens.

All those hours spent googling BPD and how to cope with it can be far better spent googling your own interests and how to go about achieving them. You don't need to know everything there is to know about BPD, just an awareness, and the basics. Believe me those who have researched it inside and out are equally effected. Extensive knowledge on the subject does not make you bulletproof nor healer. Building your own life is far healthier in the long run

This is good to read. I’m feeling a similar way - almost inundated and overwhelmed with BPD shoulda woulda coulda’s. I’m very much thinking it would be good for my health to step back if just a little bit…

[Rev]

All those hours spent googling BPD and how to cope with it can be far better spent googling your own interests and how to go about achieving them. You don't need to know everything there is to know about BPD, just an awareness, and the basics. Believe me those who have researched it inside and out are equally effected. Extensive knowledge on the subject does not make you bulletproof nor healer. Building your own life is far healthier in the long run

I don't think I could have come up with a better definition of self-care than this.  Bingo!

Rev

[LostHurtandTired]

Health, Ducks, Rev, Waverider,

Thank you all for your input, ideas, and sympathy. I'm going to try and reply in order, by person and topic.

Health,

My PwBPD is functional, they are the main stay home caretaker of the children. That does help, immensely, and I do praise them for it as the kids can be "much" at time. They do try and get some things done in a day, but usually it's just the kids. Or time to do their own thing. There are worries there as well, due to the fact that the kids learn emotional regulation from their parents, and all that... The problem is being consistent, I have to tell myself that is an erroneous  expectation on my part.

Ducks,

I really do wish there was an easy button here, but you and I both know there isn't. You spoke about the caretaking role, and after more research, it's quite apparent I take up that role as well. With a level of co-dependency, high level enmeshment, and enabling on my part. That's where the problem lies, I do realize where my actions have actually fanned the flames and not given the desired outcome. However, the enforcement of boundaries, and removing myself seems callous at times, and the extinction bursts... wow. I end up feeling I may just not be the right kind of person for this. There's a meme I saw recently that said "I gave you more than I gave myself, so loyal to you I betrayed myself."  That hit a spot hard. Of course then I research and find its a Cardi B lyric... I guess wisdom can come from most anywhere.

I do realized so much of this isn't my cross to bear, nor is it really in my control. So I shouldn't give it the energy and time I do. It's really hubris to think one could truly have a guiding hand here.

As for more of what's happened, I don't want go into to deep of details. As reality and truth are perspective, and you'd only get my perspective and that would color everything. I guess, it stems from times we had really good, healthy, communication. Agreements and promises were made, acceptance, validation, I wanted to believe things would be different. Believe that we were turning a corner, and I let my guard and walls down. In hopes to heal myself and fill that empty cup, only to have it come crashing through an unprotected self.

Rev,

Thank you for your empathy, and yes, soul-crushing sums it up quite succinctly. I would enjoy an in depth discussion on the reality of self-care.

Waverider,

Quite the Stoic approach, honestly. You're right, I have spent a lot of my time, in study and research. Trying to find a way to navigate, and make this trip bearable. I would like to know how your approach went, I'm sure you experienced feelings of guilt, coldness, apathy, and witnessed some hard extinction bursts. Where are  you now? I am burned out, and with that came a depression where I just can't seem to find joy in my once joyful excursions into hobbies and passions.

Again, thank you all, really. I hope I covered the questions and advice posed in an understandable manner.

   

[Rev]

Hello LHT,

Self - Care.  I must say that I had become totally fed up with that concept. That concept and the concept of "compassion fatigue". Because in the end - 1) Of course we know that we're supposed to take care of ourselves and 2) the world of "speak your truth" and "put yourself first" has its limits also. Lest these terms only bolster more narcissism. Little wonder we're having so much trouble talking to one another. But I digress.

I was very skeptical - until that is I came upon a wonderful, fresh look at self care. And it was this - self care prevents me from becoming enmeshed with another. It is anything I do to make sure that my boundaries stay firm, not to distance myself from people, but to engage them in a healthier way than before.

Easier said than done of course.

My point in sharing this though, is that self-care has become for me a spiritual practice in of itself. My motivation for taking care of myself has changed.  In the wake of my divorce to an abusive woman (physical and psychological) I needed to come to terms with why I had ignored so many red flags at the outset.   The soul searching I did in the first year, much of it here on these boards, led me to understand something.

No amount of therapy, or delving into my emotions, or analyzing my childhood, or what have you, would lead to anything that would last until I became emotionally and physically strong enough (as in having the actual energy) to set a boundary and live through the stress of maintaining it AND remaining emotionally calm. I like to think of it as improving my cardio - an apt metaphor for me.

I'll stop there for now and turn it over to you for a bit.

I'd be interested to know what you think. Maybe you see things differently? 

Hang in there.

Rev

[LostHurtandTired]

Afternoon Rev,

Self care does seem like a modern buzzword these days. If you have problems, it must be because you don't take care of yourself first! I can very much see where this kind of thought could lead to narcissistic tendencies.  Your postulation of self-care being a way to disengage from a high level of enmeshment is something to ponder. In the reality of life as it is, having to take on the role of caretaker is almost unavoidable, with children, and a partner suffering from BPD. There are times you simply have to step up. I can see though, through your words, that like anything worthwhile it will take consistent effort and a measured approach. It seems a fine line to walk between being overly sympathetic and narcissistically apathetic.

My ability to be emotionally and mentally "strong" has been eroded over time, and finding the energy to do anything other than exist has been daunting. You had the stress end, and had time to decompress, be retrospective, and work on the issues you had. To train yourself to be aware of red flags, and the maintenance of boundaries. How does one achieve that work, while in the midst of it?

I pull from the Stoics a lot, and this conversation made me remember a quote from Epictetus.

“Remember, it is not enough to be hit or insulted to be harmed, you must believe that you are being harmed. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation. Which is why it is essential that we not respond impulsively to impressions; take a moment before reacting, and you will find it easier to maintain control.”

Seems to be the idea behind the STOPP skill found here in the tips section. I had believed things wouldn't return to this depth again, and in that I have made myself believe I was harmed. I am complicit in it, there is a part of me that wanted to believe it wouldn't happen again, that I "got through" finally. In that belief, I opened myself to this... It seems I like to digress as well.

Days go by and I usually feel like Sisyphus, at least there is a respite as I walk back down the hill to push that boulder up again. However, now, it feels like being Atlas. The struggle has no end, and one can only shrug and hang in there.

Thank you Rev, I enjoy deep conversation.

LH&T

[waverider]

Waverider,

Quite the Stoic approach, honestly. You're right, I have spent a lot of my time, in study and research. Trying to find a way to navigate, and make this trip bearable. I would like to know how your approach went, I'm sure you experienced feelings of guilt, coldness, apathy, and witnessed some hard extinction bursts. Where are  you now? I am burned out, and with that came a depression where I just can't seem to find joy in my once joyful excursions into hobbies and passions.

Again, thank you all, really. I hope I covered the questions and advice posed in an understandable manner.

   

I went from feeling guilty about stopping off at a cafe for a coffee and a snack without covering up out of fear about the grilling i would get about "was i alone/ did i talk to anyone/I neve get to get etc", to taking up a new passion at a ripe old age of 59.

So what did I take up? Kayak racing, skinny boats that are like trying to balance on chopsticks. I read you need the balance of the youngsters or at least been paddling since a kid. Like coming down a flight of stairs on a unicycle while juggling. Not something to be attempting my age.  This preoccupied me, became my fav google search, how to learn k1 sprint kayak rather than how to cope with BPD. I was up before dawn, falling in the water, try again, falling in again, cussing, focusing (takes intense concentration).

I always got something useful for me done first thing in the morning so the day was never completely wasted if it went pear shaped later. When my wife was doing her endless woe is me monologues my mind was on my next practice session, building my can do resolve. Each gain was massively validating with many little victories.

So where am i now 2 1/2 years later? Last week i won 2 golds and 2 silvers in National Sprint titles. This was a massive goal to tick for me, gave me a massive sense of worth. All those years of being belittled and undermined have been put back where they belong, back in the rubbish can where they belong. My wife has not improved, same dramas as always. These however are just an addendum to my life they are no long the main plot .

If I were to write an auto biography it would be a tale of can do rather than a woe is me survivor tale. The story would be about me, not my wife

Not saying others need to do the same, but full immersion in your own interests is your lifeline out of this swamp of BPD you can get stuck in. Do something to validate yourself, kick your own personal goals

When you are on your death bed looking back on your life and the things you could have done it wont be read up some more on BPD.

[healthfreedom4s]

Waverider,

With your post, you have given me a fresh perspective to how to approach life, with BPD in the mix. Your achievements are inspiring.

Thank you for the post!

[Rev]

How does one achieve that work, while in the midst of it?

I pull from the Stoics a lot, and this conversation made me remember a quote from Epictetus.

“Remember, it is not enough to be hit or insulted to be harmed, you must believe that you are being harmed. If someone succeeds in provoking you, realize that your mind is complicit in the provocation. Which is why it is essential that we not respond impulsively to impressions; take a moment before reacting, and you will find it easier to maintain control.”

Seems to be the idea behind the STOPP skill found here in the tips section. I had believed things wouldn't return to this depth again, and in that I have made myself believe I was harmed. I am complicit in it, there is a part of me that wanted to believe it wouldn't happen again, that I "got through" finally. In that belief, I opened myself to this... It seems I like to digress as well.

Days go by and I usually feel like Sisyphus, at least there is a respite as I walk back down the hill to push that boulder up again. However, now, it feels like being Atlas. The struggle has no end, and one can only shrug and hang in there.

Thank you Rev, I enjoy deep conversation.

LH&T

In the end, Stoicism is a great response. Because one cannot fully achieve the work while in the midst of the drama. That's the real trap of BPD type relationships. You find yourself in a place before you really know it and are left with trying to cope and understand all at the same time. Which then leads you to the realism of your words - shrug and hang in there. No truer words have be spoken on these boards.

Part of self-care is to accept the truth of them. The line between acceptance and resignation is fine.  And stoicism can help locate it. Self-awareness can help one accept it. Committed action by remaining true to one's values allows us to continue.

The real drain on our souls comes from, I think at least, from a continual series of compromises where over time, we let go of our values. When those compromises begin to rub up against our core values, the ones we hold most dear, then that is a major warning sign.

Wonderful discussion.  Thoughts?

Rev

[LostHurtandTired]

Waverider,

First off, Congratulations! I have kayaked myself, and find it enjoyable. Racing them is a whole different world though. Quite the accomplishment to be proud of. It's not like I don't have hobbies or passions for myself. This hole I'm in though has made them joyless for me. At the end of the day, I know that's on me, I lack the motivation myself. Can't blame that on anyone but me. It's difficult when you thought things were stable, were actually pursuing a passion, and then everything crumbled at once. I see what your are saying though, I have to do for me, and not worry as much about them. No matter what the bad times will come, and I made a mistake in ever thinking differently.

Rev,

You hit the nail on the head there. I'm at that point, very much so. It's a lot like trying to get out of a hole when the only tool you have is a shovel. I lean on Stoicism a lot, yet am human, and it is a difficult path to follow. I have compromised too much of myself and my values. Have always fallen in that trap of "treat others the way you want to be treated" when we all know the world doesn't work like that. I have too often hoped people possessed the same heart and moral compass as myself. I know the hubris in that now, yet still held that belief true when it came to relationships. That's been a hard one to learn, this isn't a normal relationship, where you can have normal expectations. They just don't operate that way.

LH&T

[waverider]

One of the main reasons why we cant emotionally follow the guidelines our logical minds tell us sheer overwhelming reoccurrences of triggers. This breeds frustration at the whole "here we go again" start point, so we progressively arrive at each drama already past the point of sensible reaction. We are already over primed.

The more we allow thinking of the disorder to take of our time the more primed we stay. Possibly even more so, as it increases the sense of failure as we think all this knowledge should equip us to cope better, this failure feeds back into the resent and thereby ultimately backfires.

Ultimately the lack of a sense of progression in the big picture crushes our will as any small goals achieved seem shallow and false, so aiming for the next seems pointless. Hence why goals and achievements elsewhere in our lives takes on a greater importance than they otherwise would be. The desire to strive has greater force when it comes on the back of validation from a goal just achieved. Hence external validation is essential and not just a side treat. It is you lifeline and should not be cut.

You cant spend your life just taking things on the chin without your strength being topped up by other means, sooner or later you will topple no matter how stoic you are. We are humans not machines.