My wife is going to be having a brain scan…

[Depression = 72% of members]

This is an unexpected development and I wondered if others here have any experience of it.

My wife has been researching and applying for fostering a child. I don’t agree that it’s a good idea, however I have faith in the system that with her history of mental illness and instability, diagnosed bpd, lack of qualifications or employment history and a ton of debt, not to mention 3 kids under 4, she wouldn’t be considered.

Actually the reality of the fostering rejection has been devastating to her. My wife was sexually abused by her uncle which she remembers from age 6 and raped from age 12. There were also allegations made and then retracted about her father. But the social services investigation has unearthed other things which my wife did not know about, that she was known to the authorities from the year of her birth, over child protection issues. Of course this has been a massive shock and her mother is denying any knowledge of this. I have done my best to support her. She is mostly accepting my support. When she said her mother didn’t care about her self harming, I told her about a past piano student of mine that disclosed self harm to me and how I fell to the floor in shock after she left my house. For a few minutes my wife was stuck on, “you’ve never fallen to the floor over me!” But I didn’t pay it too much attention so she moved on from it.

My wife had mentioned to the fostering agency that she’s missing chunks of memories from her childhood. This afternoon she looked it up. She was reading out to me all the symptoms of missing memories and childhood trauma, which was basically all the symptoms of bpd, splitting, fear of abandonment, dissociation, trust issues, etc. I was careful to say very little but she did say that she recognised herself in many of these symptoms.

The fostering agency had shown her a scan of a child’s brain who had undergone trauma, compared with a child who hadn’t, and it showed certain underdeveloped areas of the brain. My wife is now going to get a scan done to see whether there is evidence in her brain of the trauma she underwent throughout childhood. I am hopeful that she might consider therapy if it shows evidence of any such thing.

Does anyone have any experience of brain scans? I’m wondering what is the likelihood that it will show anything. I do believe my wife’s bpd is quite severe at times, although she has beaten her self-harm and eating disorder. She has always claimed that she doesn’t have bpd symptoms anymore, but I wonder if what she read out about trauma today has made her question this. I know she feels sorry when she sometimes takes her issues out on our kids. I’m daring to hope just a tiny bit that she will try and get herself some help. I know it won’t be directly about our marriage but I’d love it if it leads her to consider just for a moment that I’m not as bad as she thinks.

I feel terrible for sharing all this on here but I need support to get through this difficult time, and advice and thoughts as always will be greatly appreciated.

[thankful person]

This is an unexpected development and I wondered if others here have any experience of it.

My wife has been researching and applying for fostering a child. I don’t agree that it’s a good idea, however I have faith in the system that with her history of mental illness and instability, diagnosed bpd, lack of qualifications or employment history and a ton of debt, not to mention 3 kids under 4, she wouldn’t be considered.

Actually the reality of the fostering rejection has been devastating to her. My wife was sexually abused by her uncle which she remembers from age 6 and raped from age 12. There were also allegations made and then retracted about her father. But the social services investigation has unearthed other things which my wife did not know about, that she was known to the authorities from the year of her birth, over child protection issues. Of course this has been a massive shock and her mother is denying any knowledge of this. I have done my best to support her. She is mostly accepting my support. When she said her mother didn’t care about her self harming, I told her about a past piano student of mine that disclosed self harm to me and how I fell to the floor in shock after she left my house. For a few minutes my wife was stuck on, “you’ve never fallen to the floor over me!” But I didn’t pay it too much attention so she moved on from it.

My wife had mentioned to the fostering agency that she’s missing chunks of memories from her childhood. This afternoon she looked it up. She was reading out to me all the symptoms of missing memories and childhood trauma, which was basically all the symptoms of bpd, splitting, fear of abandonment, dissociation, trust issues, etc. I was careful to say very little but she did say that she recognised herself in many of these symptoms.

The fostering agency had shown her a scan of a child’s brain who had undergone trauma, compared with a child who hadn’t, and it showed certain underdeveloped areas of the brain. My wife is now going to get a scan done to see whether there is evidence in her brain of the trauma she underwent throughout childhood. I am hopeful that she might consider therapy if it shows evidence of any such thing.

Does anyone have any experience of brain scans? I’m wondering what is the likelihood that it will show anything. I do believe my wife’s bpd is quite severe at times, although she has beaten her self-harm and eating disorder. She has always claimed that she doesn’t have bpd symptoms anymore, but I wonder if what she read out about trauma today has made her question this. I know she feels sorry when she sometimes takes her issues out on our kids. I’m daring to hope just a tiny bit that she will try and get herself some help. I know it won’t be directly about our marriage but I’d love it if it leads her to consider just for a moment that I’m not as bad as she thinks.

I feel terrible for sharing all this on here but I need support to get through this difficult time, and advice and thoughts as always will be greatly appreciated.

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[FarDrop77]

My wife had various CT and MRI scans after she awoke from open heart surgery with slurred speech and a sharp increase in her bpd symptoms.  They found she had a minor stroke.  The slurred speech resolved but the increased dysregulation didn't.  She was referred to a neurologist who found what seems to be a benign growth.

Unfortunately my wife doesn't Ike to share the details, such as what the doctor told her or where in the brain these are (one of them was on the right hemisphere which doesn't really narrow it down), etc. She says the doctor didn't think they would affect her personality but she also denies having migraines even though the doctor prescribed her migraine medication for headache, nausea, and flashing lights, so I don't fully trust her accounts of what happened.    And then she threw out all her meds and canceled all future appointments so that's likely all I'm ever to know.

Anyway I wish I had more info but I kind suspect other pwbpd would be similarly secretive about it.  if you can be included in the appointment, try to do so before your wife starts to have second thoughts.  I'd be really interested to see what they  find.

( Also my wife is similarly looking into having another child via surrogacy -  I don’t think she has the follow through that yours has but it still is an insane situation to deal with and you have my sympathy)

[Notwendy]

Perhaps social services is wanting to do this because of their records on your wife. I haven't heard of these being used for BPD specifically though.

[thankful person]

Far drop, you make a very good point and yes I am worried that I won’t hear the full story and that my wife won’t commit to any plan of action (basically therapy). I have to take care of the kids so I won’t be able to attend the appointments but her initial consultation is online so I may hear some of it.

Not Wendy, we have been rejected for fostering, the brain scan is an elective private procedure which my wife looked into due to realising that she is “different” and wanting to know if it shows in her brain. I think it is likely because where they say pwbpd had missed out on important emotional development, this is one thing I understand they can see in a brain scan. Incidentally my wife had a reflexologist (foot massage etc) visit when she was at school. She tells it that this person was clearly shocked at the amount of tension built up in her feet, as though they had never come across feet quite like these before.

[Notwendy]

TP- it appears that your focus is still on your wife. Her feet? Seriously- in the grand scheme of things- with all you are dealing with-how is this even on the radar. This is actually something you can control- where your focus is. The constant focus on your wife and her feelings is part of the dysfunctional dynamics.

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, my wife was horrifically sexually abused from a young age and we have both just learnt that there were child protection issues the authorities were involved in from the year she was born. Her ptsd nightmares when we first met were extremely distressing to watch and very very real. Yes you could accuse me of this at any time over the past however long I’ve been on here, but surely you can understand my focus on this right now. The reflexologist story was supposed to indicate how another professional was somewhat disturbed by my wife’s presentation and not surprisingly she had not treated such a traumatised child before this one.

[Notwendy]

It's not an accusation, but an observation and suggestion.

It doesn't mean not caring or being unsympathetic. Your wife has experienced terrible things and they cause her a lot of emotional pain. It's difficult to see someone we care about who is feeling hurt.

There isn't anything wrong with choosing to love and care for someone who has sustained emotional damage if they are content with that choice. If someone is happy doing this, than that is great. But you are not feeling content with this situation and focusing mainly on your wife's feelings may not help with how you feel.

[GaGrl]

While your wife is voluntarily undergoing this brain scan, and while she says that she has certain symptoms (which you recognize a BPD behaviors) -- once the results of the brain scan are available, your wife might still reject the results and may reject revisiting BPD as her original diagnosis.

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, I have always appreciated your support and advice and would appreciate any tips on how *not* to focus on my wife, if you have them? I will start by trying to make my posts more about me. So, I am feeling needed, appreciated, and loved. Everything I’ve been going on about since baby 3 arrived feels like a distant memory. I know I can’t trust my wife to keep loving me… But I am hoping that this is a chance for her to become a tiny bit self-aware, which it seems she is (though she is stalling on the therapy appointment because the therapist suggested a time that I am working). I am not putting any pressure on her.

Gagirl, yes I know this is true. I’m working through my feelings on remaining loyal to my wife yet wondering what is the best decision for mine and my children’s future. It is very very hard.

[Notwendy]

I think shifting focus is more about seeing the patterns and gaining the insight to what our own part in the dynamics is. I don't know if tips or "how to" has an impact- that's external.

There isn't anything wrong with caring and doing loving things for someone else. Likewise, there's nothing wrong with having a glass of wine with dinner. But when someone is drinking so much that they feel physically bad, they may feel it is too much. When someone is doing so much caring for the other person to the point of self neglect- they may wonder if it's too much or not. Each person has their own individual tolerance for what is too much. It's an individual decision and for some people, they may not feel they are at the too much point. This isn't a judgment- nobody is doing something right or wrong. There's far more to people's relationships than someone else can make a judgment on.

[Suassíos]

Hi,

It sounds like your wife has had a very challenging childhood. From how you describe her, and from your reference to very early indication to social services that there may have been risks, there might be dissociation and other cptsd effects. I would recommend reading around this if you can. From what I know there is evidence that there may be structural changes to the brain with dissociation, there is a study which looked at patients with dissociative identity disorder which showed some differences in hippocampus volume. Not suggesting she has DiD just that this is an area where they have published studies. . I think if it were me, I wouldn’t get too bogged down in the specifics of the scan of an individual person, ie your wife. I think that where this is studied it is more on a larger population level to try to establish the impact of adverse childhood experience or ways of dealing with it (eg childhood dissociation) at a population level and to consider what can be done to prevent harm and to measure on a population level what works to help those affected.

I would be surprised if a brain scan would do anything other than come back with “normal brain” unless there is evidence of physical trauma (eg blow to head) or a stroke or something similar. Unless you are enrolled in a particular study of brain changes in emotional trauma (I think these are very very rare) it is unlikely that there will be a check on whether eg hippocampus volume is normal or not.

It might be more helpful to accept that your wife has had experiences that may explain her situation. It fits with tension in her feet, as per The Body Keeps The Score and other publications on trauma, particularly early trauma.

Radical acceptance, talk therapy with someone skilled in this area, and lots of patience and support are a route to helping with recovery, not for a second saying that this is an easy path or a journey you have to go on with her, but it’s a journey she may need to slowly and carefully follow if she has the strength to, so that she can somehow get even slightly back on track to the life she should have experienced if none of these things ever happened to her. My heart goes out to her and to you in your support and help for her.  Try searching Kathy Steele on you tube on dissociation I find her helpful.

[thankful person]

Suassios, thank you for your thoughts. I will update the group when we have any results (assuming w does go through with it). Of course, you are compassionate to my wife’s situation which is heart-breaking. She speaks of dissociation lots through her life (even now) though she didn’t realise it at the time. I think it has seriously affected her education. She feels very let down by everybody, all professionals and family in her life, and I really want to make this marriage work despite her poor treatment of me. This latest experience has made her realise she does have issues and I only hope she might seek therapy as I absolutely don’t know how I can further encourage this without her turning round and accusing me of, “you just want an easier life for yourself!” I can’t deny that tbh but she won’t believe my wish for her to go to therapy is because I hate to see her in so much emotional pain, especially realising she has so few memories of her childhood, and feeling the whole world is against her including me.

[thankful person]

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/news/local/new-mexico/2018/01/21/severe-childhood-trauma-alter-developing-brain-create-lifetime-risk/1039104001/

This is an article that seems to support the theory that any childhood trauma (not just physical trauma to the head) can affect brain development and this can be noticeable in a scan. All these areas mentioned my wife has struggled with, emotions obviously, speech, decisions, memories (and learning). However, my wife is having an mri scan and the specialist has warned her that it may be that nothing shows unless she experienced physical trauma to the head which she doesn’t think she did. The scan is going to be about an hour after my mother leaves next week. So I’m dealing with wanting to spend as much time as I can with Mum, also needing to give extra attention and support to my wife because of this brain scan coming up. My wife has told Mum that her mental health isn’t too good right now but Mum has no idea about the rest, only that we were rejected for fostering.

[maxsterling]

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/news/local/new-mexico/2018/01/21/severe-childhood-trauma-alter-developing-brain-create-lifetime-risk/1039104001/

This is an article that seems to support the theory that any childhood trauma (not just physical trauma to the head) can affect brain development and this can be noticeable in a scan. All these areas mentioned my wife has struggled with, emotions obviously, speech, decisions, memories (and learning). However, my wife is having an mri scan and the specialist has warned her that it may be that nothing shows unless she experienced physical trauma to the head which she doesn’t think she did. The scan is going to be about an hour after my mother leaves next week. So I’m dealing with wanting to spend as much time as I can with Mum, also needing to give extra attention and support to my wife because of this brain scan coming up. My wife has told Mum that her mental health isn’t too good right now but Mum has no idea about the rest, only that we were rejected for fostering.

I don't think the MRI would show this.  They would have to do a scan that measures brain activity in responses to certain stimuli.  I think it is well accepted now that emotional trauma on a developing brain can affect how the neuropathways form and lead to lifelong dysfunction.