So many questions....

[Deja Vu 2.0]

Hello.  I hope you are well.

My situation in a nutshell...details to come later I suppose.

I am in my second marriage.  My first wife had some serious problems with emotional instability and depression.  She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, a diagnosis which she rejected and refused treatment for (after a brief period of taking pills and some talk therapy).  I came to the conclusions, with the help of my own therapist(s), that I was deeply codependent and that I was part of the problem....doing too much for her, etc.

I made a promise to myself to do better next time, if there ever was a next time, which there was.  Guess what?  My second wife has also been diagnosed with BPD.

I think I am better prepared to deal with this situation than I was 20 years ago, but I must say I am somewhat disappointed, mostly in myself, for not picking up on the signs and not having the courage, or the insight, to avoid this unfortunate repeat.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ForeverDad]

It's quite probable that your codependent nature was, to some extent, shaped and fostered in your childhood FOO (family of origin).  So how were you to become aware except by experience and education in counseling?  Apparently what inclined you to start and continue your relationship felt familiar to you and was within your comfort zone.  (Think of the analogy of the hapless frog in the slowly heating cooking pot.)

Also, all of us are careful to somewhat present our nice face when starting a romantic relationship.  As time goes on, we relax a bit and, so to speak, let our dirty laundry become evident.  People with BPD traits (pwBPD) are humans too and they behave similarly, just to greater extremes, both with perceptions as well as behavior.

Too often we don't notice the subtle behavior patterns until we're well into the relationship, perhaps already married or perhaps not until we've expanded the twosome to include children.  By then, of course, it is vastly more complicated to figure out what to do.  And the common entitled Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting arise and improving things is made even harder.

[Deja Vu 2.0]

Thanks for your reply.

I am well aware of how my FOO has shaped me....alcoholic father, sometimes violent. Codependent and quite reserved mother, but also the one who worked like crazy to protect her six children.

I met my first wife when I was in a Christian phase of my life.  She was an incest victim in her childhood, raised in an environment of drugs and gambling.  She turned to the Church, and stayed faithful through several miscarriages, our separation and her eventual death from breast cancer.

I learned so much from her about kindness, and forgiveness, and gratitude.  I never stopped loving her, but living with her became too difficult.  We were arguing a lot, we were deep in debt, she had not worked for several years and there was a cycle of increasing violence that needed to be interrupted.  We never had children, which was a source of great pain for her.  The truth is that the most painful part of the miscarriages was seeing how much pain it caused her.

After I moved out, I lived alone for more than 10 years.  I was able to rediscover some of the things that I had let go of, like skiing, and camping, and I had a couple of meaningful relationships with women that helped me gain confidence in myself but ultimately failed.  I also did a lot of work on myself during that period, with help from authors like John Bradshaw, Robert Bly and Joseph Campbell.

Years later, I left the US and started over in South America.  I met a wonderful woman who I eventually married.  Her childhood was marked more by neglect than overt abuse.  She was (and still is) a hard worker, supporting her mother and her daughter.  She has always had a turbulent relationship with her daughter and more recently has had some serious emotional outbursts at work.  She has been in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for more than a year and practices mindfulness exercises.

I am not considering separation, but I do want to develop and practice better strategies for managing my own emotions and also supporting my wife on her journey.

[Deja Vu 2.0]

Sorry...I meant Dialectical Behavioral Therapy in the above post.

[Pook075]

I think I am better prepared to deal with this situation than I was 20 years ago, but I must say I am somewhat disappointed, mostly in myself, for not picking up on the signs and not having the courage, or the insight, to avoid this unfortunate repeat.

BPDs are incredibly loving and caring people, especially at the start of the relationship.  Their mental illness tells them that everything about you is "perfect" so they shower you with love and affection.

Where in any of that sounds like a person we should avoid starting a relationship with?

Are there usually some red flags?  Of course.  I'm also in my second marriage and I saw potential red flags going in as well.  My current wife does not have mental illness though, so was I just as "fooled" as you were?  Or did we both choose women who loved us and took care of us?

The "secret" to a happy BPD marriage is learning a different way to communicate, especially when things begin to become heated.  This site has helped so many of us learn that language and put it into practice.  At the very top of any page, you'll see sections like "tips" and "tools", that's where you can really dig in and start to get a feel of how to communicate more effectively. 

It's not intuitive at first and we all see that we got it so so wrong in the past; that's okay though.  You learn and grow, exactly like she's doing in therapy.  That's where you actually start.

Do you have any specific questions so far?  Maybe talk out a little more of your current challenges.  Also, I'm so sorry to hear about your ex-wife.  That's heartbreaking.  I'm a Christian as well and I'm glad she finally found peace.