How to handle miscommunications and misunderstandings

[Boogie74]

I’m recognizing patterns J has in looping her statements during arguments- often hijacking the entire conversation to repeat a perceived insult or hurt ad nauseam. 

Upon letting her vent her frustrations in several repetitive loops, she will take a pause (which never seems to be intended for me to even parrot or paraphrase to her my understanding of her position), she makes herself more and more angry at the situation- causing her memory of the situation to evolve into something that never existed remotely close to her understanding of how it happened.

I recognize that she is stuck on the emotional track- and she has trouble resolving the feelings she has- so she can’t change gears to also resolve the actual issue at hand.   

I’ve asked her what would help her to understand my recognition of my role in the argument or misunderstanding.   I also tried (and failed miserably) to explain that I have two problems in these cases- one- I misspoke or misinterpreted or misunderstood or said the wrong thing- and I am willing to apologize and take responsibility for that- but I ALSO want to clear up the confusion by correcting the misunderstanding to begin with.   

If I said “I’m going to the store to buy milk” and I meant “Creamer” (simplified hypothetical), I said the wrong thing and I still need to say “I said that wrong- I meant creamer”.  She doesn’t seem capable of understanding that the original situation still exists and needs rectifying- she interprets the correction to be “an excuse” or “I’m sorry I said that wrong BUT I want to make an excuse to get out of being wrong”.

Our situation today was because our dog was chewing on something and I wanted to know what she wanted me to do with it- we didn’t want to throw it away.   She claimed I said “I am going to throw it away unless you tell me immediately where to put it”.   I told her “I’m sorry I sometimes/often say the wrong words- I didn’t want to throw it away” and she claimed I can’t say “sorry I misspoke” and then change what I meant to say (which is ridiculous).   I told her “I want to take whatever responsibility for the misunderstanding- but I also want to resolve the issue and correct the miscommunication” and she seems to have absolutely NO recognition of that as a possibility.   In her mind, if you’re wrong about something you said, that’s it and there’s no resolving the conflict.

I can imagine a likelihood of her growing up in a household of black and white punishments/reward for original behaviors and zero tolerance for nuanced conflicts and rational thinking with two way communication and compromise- but that’s not my responsibility to her- I just want to find a way to give her the space to resolve or deal with her feelings and emotions- yet at some point communicate a correction to the situation at hand.

If this makes sense, any ideas?

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[Under The Bridge]

From what I'm reading, it seems like you're either constantly apologising for 'being in the wrong' or trying to explain things logically in a way she can understand. Neither route seems to be working, as others too have found.

By apologising you're instantly reinforcing her belief that she is in the right, so she'll continue like this and, in true BPD fashion, will also bring it up against you months or even years later. They remember every time you admitted you were wrong, even if their memory is bad on other things.

Trying to explain it was just a mis-statement is also near impossible because of the black and white BPD thinking; there is no 'might have' in their minds, it's either solidly one thing or the other.

Ideally it would be better if it didn't happen in the first place. Have you tried setting boundaries, even small ones?  Whereby if she tries to escalate something you'll leave the room until she's calmed down? It needn't be hard, huge boundaries, just things to show her you won't accept this behaviour.

Despite their illness, BPD's are able to learn that things won't be tolerated and change their act accordingly.  How do you think she'd act if you laid down some boundaries?

[Rowdy]

.

By apologising you're instantly reinforcing her belief that she is in the right, so she'll continue like this and, in true BPD fashion, will also bring it up against you months or even years later. They remember every time you admitted you were wrong, even if their memory is bad on other things.

Trying to explain it was just a mis-statement is also near impossible because of the black and white BPD thinking; there is no 'might have' in their minds, it's either solidly one thing or the other.

wow! 100%. Although seemed to me that it if that admitting being wrong had the word sorry attached to it, they would forget that part and tell you that you are never sorry or apologise.

[Me88]

wow! 100%. Although seemed to me that it if that admitting being wrong had the word sorry attached to it, they would forget that part and tell you that you are never sorry or apologise.

yeah, entertaining any argument over an exaggerated or misinterpreted action shows them that you are in fact guilty of that. I told mine towards the end 'I am willing to have an open and honest conversation about this if we can agree on what actually happened'. Nope. Thant meant she wasn't heard, I was denying her reality and gaslighting her. I would legit go point by point on what happened and what as said and ask her 'yes or no'...she'd agree with every point I made, and still say I did xyz. And yes, you can apologize and they will say you are never sorry or apologize and you have no accountability. Every issue is truly your fault in their minds.

[Rowdy]

Yes painful. Problem was my wife is so bolshy, loud and sure of herself that she is right that it’s difficult to get a word in edge ways without her talking over you, or shouting, or something to put you off balance.

It would even be an argument for example, on many occasions she would berate me for misplacing the car keys. I would say to her, you’ve got them, because I know I had given them to her. That would be an argument that lasted far longer than it ought to have done with her repeatedly denying that I’d given her the keys, until she actually looked in her handbag and would pull them out and say oh yeh I have got them. But that wouldn’t be the end of it, that would be followed up with “well you’re always right aren’t you” in a condescending manner, or something along those lines.

[Me88]

Yes painful. Problem was my wife is so bolshy, loud and sure of herself that she is right that it’s difficult to get a word in edge ways without her talking over you, or shouting, or something to put you off balance.

It would even be an argument for example, on many occasions she would berate me for misplacing the car keys. I would say to her, you’ve got them, because I know I had given them to her. That would be an argument that lasted far longer than it ought to have done with her repeatedly denying that I’d given her the keys, until she actually looked in her handbag and would pull them out and say oh yeh I have got them. But that wouldn’t be the end of it, that would be followed up with “well you’re always right aren’t you” in a condescending manner, or something along those lines.

yup, they get loud, scream and talk for hours. Mine would literally go on for an hour or so about all the bad things I do. I couldn't remember it all and I'd address what I remembered. I would miss a thing or two and that was me purposely deflecting because I wasn't sorry I hurt her. Then I finally started cutting her off during talking if she was going of on 10 new issues and she'd scream at me for cutting her off. One sided conversations really. You cannot explain anything or it's seen as an excuse or justification. and yeah 'you always think you're right!'....I don't but some situations are so blatantly obvious to look at.

[Rowdy]

It is such a weird juxtaposition of thought process going on in their mind. On the one hand, I truly believe she could put talk and probably outwit most politicians she is so confident and self assured, yet with me she was clearly so emotionally insecure. Can lie through her teeth like a politician as well.

[cynp]

When you mis-comunicate, even if its about the smallest isue imaginable, you become their most hated thing: a liar, a promise breaker. Living w. a BPD loved one has made me speak more carefully. No one is perfect tho, and I still make mistakes, naturally. It depends upon thier level of dys-regluation on how bad I get it in return.   

[Me88]

When you mis-comunicate, even if its about the smallest isue imaginable, you become their most hated thing: a liar, a promise breaker. Living w. a BPD loved one has made me speak more carefully. No one is perfect tho, and I still make mistakes, naturally. It depends upon thier level of dys-regluation on how bad I get it in return.   

indeed the smallest things ever.......Ex 'do you want to see the movie at 745 or 815?'.....Me 'either work for me, we'll be home a bit before that so it doesn't matter'....her 'that isn't an answer, can you not answer a question? You never listen to me'.....Me 'I heard you, I just have no preference, did you have anything to get done beforehand or no? I just don't care what time we pick both are fine.....Her 'of course you don't care, you never care about anything I care about. You're selfish. I just wish you'd be a man for once'....Me 'I do care, I just don't know what you have planned this evening. And what does this have to do with me being a man? and selfish? I won't even address that'....CUE MASSIVE FIGHT THAT GOES ON FOR 2 HRS, well....no movie and hours of silence and crying.

having flashbacks.

[Under The Bridge]

Flashbacks indeed!  Frightening how they can escalate everything. If a girl says to me 'I don't mind what we do' I take it to mean she's happy just being with me but say that to a BPD and it's a huge put-down.

I remember my ex sending back a sapphire ring I bought her - it was a wishbone-shaped ring which doesn't lie flat and she posted it back to me with a bit of flimsy kitchen roll over it and in a very thin envelope. It arrived absolutely flattened and with the stone out and I still have no idea if the damage was done by going through the post office sorting machinery or if she'd taken a hammer to it.

After an angry letter from me telling her where to go, she came into our local pub and said she hadn't purposely damaged it. I gave her the benefit of the doubt..but looking back, I should have stayed angry and NC and saved myself years of conflict.

This ring  - and many other items of jewelry I bought her - somehow slipped her mind years later when she accused me of 'never buying her anything'.

[Rowdy]

This ring  - and many other items of jewelry I bought her - somehow slipped her mind years later when she accused me of 'never buying her anything'.

Is this a BPD thing, do we think?

Done the whole taking her to Tiffany’s, buying her jewellery which seems to get forgotten about.

When you get a bit older you kind of have everything, and gifts get a bit more difficult to buy, so often I would ask her what she wanted for birthdays and Xmas and it would be less about the expensive handbags and jewellery because she had it all. So the gifts would be things she really needed and wanted, but not really expensive items.
Now, me being a little bit on the autistic side, would then research the item(s) she wanted, and find out what the absolute best thing of what she wanted was that I could get her, or get her several different versions of what it was she wanted.
But because they were not expensive flashy things I would be told after a month or so that I had got her nothing for her birthday.

 I think it was her last birthday that we spent together she asked for a pair of shoes. She has a curvature of the arch in her feet, and she wanted a specific brand of shoe, so we went shopping and found a shop that sold them having looked in many shops, but there were none that she liked the style or look of. I said we can get some online, but she said she needs to try them on.
Needless to say, we couldn’t find any, but there is another expensive brand of shoe that she likes and we ended up there and I bought her some shoes. But because they were not the brand that she had been looking for, that turned into you didn’t buy me anything for my birthday. I’d remind her that I bought her the shoes and she would respond with they were not the ones I was looking for, and then would completely blank the fact I’d bought her them again shortly afterwards.

She would also take me shopping for my birthday, which would just turn into a shopping trip for her and she would come back with bags full that she had spent hundreds on for herself.