Advice on reversing a breakup

[Depression = 72% of members]

 I'm not looking for reassurance or validation. I'm trying to understand what is most likely happening psychologically.

My ex and I were together for just over 5 years.
She was 20 when we met and 26 when we separated. Throughout most of that time I was effectively her primary attachment figure. We lived together, travelled together, built a life together and had a very intense bond. The relationship also had a Dom-sub dynamic where I was generally the provider, protector and more emotionally stable partner.

She has what I would describe as quiet/internalised BPD rather than the more outwardly explosive presentation. Her struggles seemed to revolve around shame, fear of abandonment, favourite-person attachments, splitting, identity issues, validation seeking and emotional avoidance.

About a year ago the relationship suffered a major rupture. She became emotionally attached to another man who appeared to become her new favourite person. There was lying, emotional betrayal and behaviour that caused significant damage to trust. We separated.
What makes this situation more confusing is that after several months apart I wrote her a deeply personal book. To my surprise she came back.

When she returned she was extremely emotional. She apologised repeatedly, told me she loved me, admitted she had made huge mistakes and eventually moved back in with me. For a period of time it genuinely felt like we had overcome something impossible.
However, the reconciliation was difficult.
More information emerged about what had happened during the separation. My trust had been badly damaged. Arguments became more frequent. Her shame appeared enormous. There were ongoing issues around validation seeking, emotional regulation and accountability.

One important point: despite all the emotional turmoil, there had never been physical violence throughout the previous five years of our relationship.

A physical incident occurred during the final breakdown of the relationship and was completely out of character compared to the majority of our time together.

Approximately two months ago the relationship ended following a serious argument. She became physically aggressive during the conflict. I left the house because I felt the situation was escalating. I then made the stupid decision to drive after drinking and was arrested for drink driving. When police saw injuries on me and asked what had happened, the situation escalated further and she was subsequently arrested and removed from the house.
Because of the legal situation she currently cannot contact me.
I have not seen or spoken to her since.

A few weeks ago I sent her an 8-minute video. The video was calm, reflective and compassionate. I apologised for my own part in the relationship problems, told her I still cared deeply about her, acknowledged the good and bad in both of us and made it clear there was no hatred from my side.
I also told her that if she ever wanted me to call her one day when everything had settled down, she could simply change her WhatsApp profile picture as a signal.

She watched the video.
Shortly afterwards she removed her WhatsApp profile picture entirely.
She didn't replace it with another picture.
She simply removed it.
Because she currently cannot contact me, I have no way of knowing whether that meant anything or not.

Since then she has remained very active on social media.
Recent content has included:

A selfie with "Miss me?" written on it.
Reposts about being misunderstood or hurt.
BPD-related reposts.
Posts saying things like "I've got a new life."
Multiple dancing/thirst-trap style TikToks.
Selfies in new outfits.
Songs about exes and relationships.
General validation-seeking content.

I fully recognise that social media is a poor source of information, but I'm struggling to know whether I am seeing genuine patterns or simply projecting because I still love her.
The contradiction I can't reconcile is this:
On one hand:
We were together over 5 years.
I was her primary attachment figure through most of her adult life.
She previously left and later came back.
She apologised deeply during the reconciliation.
She told me she loved me.
She has my name tattooed on her body.
We shared a life together.
On the other hand:
There was significant betrayal.
Serious trust damage.
The ending was traumatic.
There is now complete silence.

Her online behaviour often appears attention-seeking, contradictory and confusing.
My questions are:

How often do you see shame rather than lack of love prevent someone with BPD from reaching out?

Have you seen people genuinely avoid someone they still loved because they believed they had caused too much damage?

If somebody was a primary attachment figure for 5+ years, how quickly does that attachment typically fade?

How much weight would you place on social media behaviour in situations like this?

Does removing the WhatsApp picture after watching the video sound potentially meaningful, or is that exactly the type of thing partners tend to overanalyse?

If you were advising someone in my position, would you maintain complete silence until restrictions end, or take a different approach?

One final thing:

I am aware that part of me still wants her back despite everything that happened. Another part of me knows the relationship was unhealthy and that I would probably have far more peace without it. Those two sides of me are currently at war with each other.

I'm interested in honest analysis, even if the answer is that I'm reading too much into things or asking the wrong questions.vAnd the best advice you can give me to reconcile.

Thank you I advance

[stevemcduck]

 I'm not looking for reassurance or validation. I'm trying to understand what is most likely happening psychologically.

My ex and I were together for just over 5 years.
She was 20 when we met and 26 when we separated. Throughout most of that time I was effectively her primary attachment figure. We lived together, travelled together, built a life together and had a very intense bond. The relationship also had a Dom-sub dynamic where I was generally the provider, protector and more emotionally stable partner.

She has what I would describe as quiet/internalised BPD rather than the more outwardly explosive presentation. Her struggles seemed to revolve around shame, fear of abandonment, favourite-person attachments, splitting, identity issues, validation seeking and emotional avoidance.

About a year ago the relationship suffered a major rupture. She became emotionally attached to another man who appeared to become her new favourite person. There was lying, emotional betrayal and behaviour that caused significant damage to trust. We separated.
What makes this situation more confusing is that after several months apart I wrote her a deeply personal book. To my surprise she came back.

When she returned she was extremely emotional. She apologised repeatedly, told me she loved me, admitted she had made huge mistakes and eventually moved back in with me. For a period of time it genuinely felt like we had overcome something impossible.
However, the reconciliation was difficult.
More information emerged about what had happened during the separation. My trust had been badly damaged. Arguments became more frequent. Her shame appeared enormous. There were ongoing issues around validation seeking, emotional regulation and accountability.

One important point: despite all the emotional turmoil, there had never been physical violence throughout the previous five years of our relationship.

A physical incident occurred during the final breakdown of the relationship and was completely out of character compared to the majority of our time together.

Approximately two months ago the relationship ended following a serious argument. She became physically aggressive during the conflict. I left the house because I felt the situation was escalating. I then made the stupid decision to drive after drinking and was arrested for drink driving. When police saw injuries on me and asked what had happened, the situation escalated further and she was subsequently arrested and removed from the house.
Because of the legal situation she currently cannot contact me.
I have not seen or spoken to her since.

A few weeks ago I sent her an 8-minute video. The video was calm, reflective and compassionate. I apologised for my own part in the relationship problems, told her I still cared deeply about her, acknowledged the good and bad in both of us and made it clear there was no hatred from my side.
I also told her that if she ever wanted me to call her one day when everything had settled down, she could simply change her WhatsApp profile picture as a signal.

She watched the video.
Shortly afterwards she removed her WhatsApp profile picture entirely.
She didn't replace it with another picture.
She simply removed it.
Because she currently cannot contact me, I have no way of knowing whether that meant anything or not.

Since then she has remained very active on social media.
Recent content has included:

A selfie with "Miss me?" written on it.
Reposts about being misunderstood or hurt.
BPD-related reposts.
Posts saying things like "I've got a new life."
Multiple dancing/thirst-trap style TikToks.
Selfies in new outfits.
Songs about exes and relationships.
General validation-seeking content.

I fully recognise that social media is a poor source of information, but I'm struggling to know whether I am seeing genuine patterns or simply projecting because I still love her.
The contradiction I can't reconcile is this:
On one hand:
We were together over 5 years.
I was her primary attachment figure through most of her adult life.
She previously left and later came back.
She apologised deeply during the reconciliation.
She told me she loved me.
She has my name tattooed on her body.
We shared a life together.
On the other hand:
There was significant betrayal.
Serious trust damage.
The ending was traumatic.
There is now complete silence.

Her online behaviour often appears attention-seeking, contradictory and confusing.
My questions are:

How often do you see shame rather than lack of love prevent someone with BPD from reaching out?

Have you seen people genuinely avoid someone they still loved because they believed they had caused too much damage?

If somebody was a primary attachment figure for 5+ years, how quickly does that attachment typically fade?

How much weight would you place on social media behaviour in situations like this?

Does removing the WhatsApp picture after watching the video sound potentially meaningful, or is that exactly the type of thing partners tend to overanalyse?

If you were advising someone in my position, would you maintain complete silence until restrictions end, or take a different approach?

One final thing:

I am aware that part of me still wants her back despite everything that happened. Another part of me knows the relationship was unhealthy and that I would probably have far more peace without it. Those two sides of me are currently at war with each other.

I'm interested in honest analysis, even if the answer is that I'm reading too much into things or asking the wrong questions.vAnd the best advice you can give me to reconcile.

Thank you I advance

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ForeverDad]

What you're looking at are the leaves on the trees which can vary in many ways.  If you step back you will see the forest.  Translation: Individual actions and reactions may provide indications but the bigger picture is more important for long term success, or not.  That's my observation... Does it matter that much about the details, since mental health issues (PDs) influence the big picture?

Here is a factoid that is admittedly somewhat general yet in most cases true:

• You cannot "fix" her since BPD traits make it hard for her to set aside the baggage of the past relationship history
• For her to want to recover a reasonably normal mental health perspective that would make a healthy relationship possible she would have to want to truly change and most can't do it without long term therapy that is diligently applied in life and perceptions

The first separation was non-violent.  The second separation was violent and resulted in legal repercussions for both of you.  If you try again - without her seeking and continuing serious long term therapy - then future separations may easily be much worse, emotionally, legally, financially.

Years ago, you weren't aware of the risks, now you are.  There's a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

There's also the old story of the frog and the scorpion.  The scorpion wants to cross the stream and promises not to harm the frog for safe passage across the stream.  Once across, the scorpion stings the frog and the frog cries, "But you promised!"  And the scorpion replies, "You knew I was a scorpion."

In time the court is likely to let the no-contact order expire.  Will she have learned from this?  Will you have learned from this?  You know she has serious relationship issues.  Sadly, as much as we wish it were otherwise, we can't live other people's lives.  To a large extent, they will do what they will do.  On the other hand, you have control of your own life, your decisions, the paths you choose.

[stevemcduck]

thanks forever dad. everything you say makes perfect sense.

however I still want her back. the no legal no contact ends in 5 weeks from now. im unsure how to proceed.

[Pook075]

thanks forever dad. everything you say makes perfect sense.

however I still want her back. the no legal no contact ends in 5 weeks from now. im unsure how to proceed.

Could you give us a little more detail on the legal no contact?  I'm guessing it was due to the final breakup, but I don't want to guess.  Also, is it a one-way no contact?  Did you violate it by reaching out?

I agree with ForeverDad that her mixed signals on social media are just that- mixed.  I'm sure she misses you as well and a part of her would be open to reconcile.  Another part will avoid it at all costs.  That's the crux of mental illness and how she makes decisions.  Don't read too much into it all; she will reach out or she won't.

[stevemcduck]

hi pook

the situation is this. she attacked me. I was bleeding and I left the house to get away and stupidly drive under the influence to get away. I went to the police station and was arrested. when I was released I was told she was also arrested. she was living in my house and they evicted her and I didn't press charges so she was released on bail. the usual terms are 3 month no contact her side only. I have not been told not to contact her at all so I am not in breach. 

her parents came to get her and she went back to her family home which is 400 miles from where we lived together.

I sent the video and acknowledged she may not be able to respond and if she ever wanted to hear from me again to change her WhatsApp profile picture so I knew. later that night she removed her profile picture. I sent a follow up text saying to put it back up when she was ready for a call. it was read but under stably not responded to and the picture remains removed.

[Pook075]

hi pook

the situation is this. she attacked me. I was bleeding and I left the house to get away and stupidly drive under the influence to get away. I went to the police station and was arrested. when I was released I was told she was also arrested. she was living in my house and they evicted her and I didn't press charges so she was released on bail. the usual terms are 3 month no contact her side only. I have not been told not to contact her at all so I am not in breach. 

her parents came to get her and she went back to her family home which is 400 miles from where we lived together.

I sent the video and acknowledged she may not be able to respond and if she ever wanted to hear from me again to change her WhatsApp profile picture so I knew. later that night she removed her profile picture. I sent a follow up text saying to put it back up when she was ready for a call. it was read but under stably not responded to and the picture remains removed.

Okay, so it was only a one-way restraining order.  I remembered most of what had happened; just not that part of it.

My circumstances of the break-up were very different, but I can remember that 2.5 months out, I still had a strong desire to reconcile and would have done almost anything to make it happen.  Looking back three years later though, I see plainly that it was not a healthy relationship and I was never prioritized except when it came to financial support.

I think it's very common to have doubts about how things turn out and wondering if another try would fix everything that was previously broken.  The decision is yours alone and a lot of that is out of your hands at the moment, but I will say that you might be seeing it with crystal clarity today.  I absolutely wasn't at the point you're at.  This is the "bettering" section though so that's what we will focus on.

Since you're reached out twice now (video + text), there's not much more you can do for the next few weeks.  Let the restraining order finish out and see if she contacts you.  The chances without any additional information (which you don't have) are about 50/50 either way, so nobody has a great guess here. All you can do is prepare for the possibility that she will reach out while also accepting that she might not.

You want to continue the relationship.  Okay.  What will be different this time around?  Start thinking that out now.  Obviously alcohol played a big part on your end and that's something you can control in the future.  I'm not blaming or judging here, mind you, but it makes sense to focus on the parts we can actually control. 

Likewise, let's say you do reconnect and eventually, she's in a sour mood.  How do you avoid ending up in the same place all over again?  You can't control her emotions or reactions, but you can work on the parts that you control.  Maybe it's speaking in a different way, maybe it's knowing when to walk away or avoid an argument to begin with.  Those are kinds of things that solely rely on you.  That's where your focus should be.

I genuinely hope it works out and you get the fairytale ending.  It happens from time to time.

[Notwendy]

I think some of the emotional pain you have felt may be wanting her, but also wishing she was different. You can want what you want, and if it's her, then she is who she is- younger and at her age, maybe not ready to settle down. She may want what you have to offer her but also not be emotionally ready, or able, to really settle down, or want to stop the behaviors that get the attention she likes. Still, this is who you want and it's the whole package- the attractiveness, the intensity, and the behaviors are all in one person.

The one way no contact order only works well when one person wants no contact at all, and so there won't be any contact between the two. However, you don't want to be NC and have contacted her. If you're confused about how she is possibly responding via social media, also consider- she's the one with the order- she can't contact you directly. Whether or not the social media what's app means anything- there's no way to know. I think it's understandable to imagine she's in a difficult position with the ban being on her and not able to respond even if she wanted to.

At this point there's no knowing what she's thinking, or wants until you can communicate with her directly. She still has her own choice with this, and there's no way to make someone want a relationship. All you can do is to reach out to her when her NC order is lifted. She may fear facing consequences for breaking it. However, a few months of no contact is not the same as doing work in therapy. The most likely outcome is that she's going to have the same behaviors.

[ForeverDad]

When you sent the message telling her how to indicate she acknowledged your message, you were actually sabotaging her No Contact order/agreement, helping her to evade the intent of that order.  She was facing consequences yet you have meddled with them, essentially weakening them.

Probably not a big issue, but something of which to be aware.

Years ago my ex and I were both dealing with No Contact orders.  They were serious.  When she needed to come get her personal items she had to arrange for an officer to handle the peace visit.  Neither the court nor the police want repeated domestic disputes.

[Notwendy]

Forever Dad- you are looking at this ban as a consequence for her and you are correct- it compromises that.

Another aspect is that, it compromises her if she does reply. She's the one who risks the consequences of reaching out.

The "what's app" secret contact idea- this puts her in the position of violating the NC order. It's asking her to break the order by indirectly communicating with you that she wants to take your call. However, she's the one taking the risk if she does.

One explanation for doing this halfway may be that she started to change the picture but actually stopped herself- because if she did change it and you called her, she'd be the one in violation and it would make sense she wouldn't want that.

It may be hard on you to wait out the restriction, but for her sake, it's best to reach out when she won't face consequences for replying. Then, she can safely reply if she chooses to.