One step backwards, one step forward

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 However, realistically, the first thing that happens with someone you meet is chemistry, and then the rest follows as you get to know them.

Well - you've just solidly confirmed my understanding of the instant, unchanging, unalterable way that women evaluate men. If it's not fireworks from the start, it never will be.

Man that is uber-depressing... .

I've been the nice guy who is respectful and caring that women find unattractive. And you've been all the previous people I've been "involved" with who either are disinterested in sex or else see it as just some casual thing that does not a relationship make no matter what my feelings might be.

   

Sorry Want - I still think you're a good person but your actions and posts have been confirming all that is uber-wrong with this hit_ed up world... .

[DAS]

 However, realistically, the first thing that happens with someone you meet is chemistry, and then the rest follows as you get to know them.

Well - you've just solidly confirmed my understanding of the instant, unchanging, unalterable way that women evaluate men. If it's not fireworks from the start, it never will be.

Man that is uber-depressing... .

I've been the nice guy who is respectful and caring that women find unattractive. And you've been all the previous people I've been "involved" with who either are disinterested in sex or else see it as just some casual thing that does not a relationship make no matter what my feelings might be.

   

Sorry Want - I still think you're a good person but your actions and posts have been confirming all that is uber-wrong with this hit_ed up world... .

[JGM]

Ah, do not lose hope.  There are at least two types of long term relationships:  1)  starts with a bang, chemisty, OMG  and 2)  very good friendship that one day you wake up and say WOW, I like this person in a way I wasn't thinking of

[innerspirit]

Ah, do not lose hope.  There are at least two types of long term relationships:  1)  starts with a bang, chemisty, OMG  and 2)  very good friendship that one day you wake up and say WOW, I like this person in a way I wasn't thinking of

And the second option can be very special

[Want2know]

Well - you've just solidly confirmed my understanding of the instant, unchanging, unalterable way that women evaluate men. If it's not fireworks from the start, it never will be.

That's not what I meant.  Chemistry is a lot more than seeing someone who is good looking.  It's someone you are drawn to more than the physical level, although that is a part of it.  They may not have classic good looks, but they are attractive to you.

The nice guy, I just didn't have that with.  He wasn't ugly by any means, but we just didn't connect on that level.  I have been with enough men who have had charisma and were just ok looking that I had strong chemistry with, and they weren't necessarily "bad boys". 

Don't kick yourself, DAS.  I know there have got to be women out there that have that with you, but you tend to put yourself down so much or are suspicious of it that you may not even realize it when it's happening.

[DAS]

Well - you've just solidly confirmed my understanding of the instant, unchanging, unalterable way that women evaluate men. If it's not fireworks from the start, it never will be.

That's not what I meant.  Chemistry is a lot more than seeing someone who is good looking.  It's someone you are drawn to more than the physical level, although that is a part of it.  They may not have classic good looks, but they are attractive to you.

The nice guy, I just didn't have that with.  He wasn't ugly by any means, but we just didn't connect on that level.  I have been with enough men who have had charisma and were just ok looking that I had strong chemistry with, and they weren't necessarily "bad boys". 

Don't kick yourself, DAS.  I know there have got to be women out there that have that with you, but you tend to put yourself down so much or are suspicious of it that you may not even realize it when it's happening.

Fair enough. I mean, I certainly don't feel like I can tell if a women is interested in me and certainly am almost positive that something will happen that causes her to lose interest even if that thing is my inaction. Sorta damned if I try and damned if I don't.

And ya - I do realize the difference between physical attraction and chemistry. I may have been B&Wing it a tad. 

Anyhow, sorry for jumping on ya -  x

[Want2know]

Sorta damned if I try and damned if I don't.

You just can't give up trying, or be too hard on yourself when your attempts don't work.  It seems you have a streak of insecurity about yourself that you almost expect to fail - self fulfilling prophecy.  I get it.  You need to learn to squash that voice that tells you that you don't deserve something that you really want.  When it rears it's ugly head, tell it to f' off!

Anyhow, sorry for jumping on ya -  x

I don't feel you were jumping on me.  You were interpreting something I wrote with that nasty devil voice in your head controling your fingers as you were typing.  Glad you realized it was just that... .big hugs and kisses to you, DAS!

[DAS]

You need to learn to squash that voice that tells you that you don't deserve something that you really want.  When it rears it's ugly head, tell it to f' off!

The toughest part about that, though, is that I feel like that was what I'd been doing for some time. I definitely told myself over and over and over again that I am a great guy and deserve to have great things in my life - and while I could acheive some of those things on my own (ie condo, travel), the second that it came to involving another person (ie friendships or romance) it never made one iota of difference in how others reacted to me.

So ya - it was easier to get through life while believing that stuff than it is right now. It just never once identifiably changed any external based outcomes.

Anyway - that's my issue and I'm thread derailing, so - done. 

[Jeffree]

The one thing that can't be accounted for when looking for a mate is... .ahem... .destiny/fate. We do eventually find that person we're meant to be with, only not usually when we want to. It sounds corny, but it's true.

There are times when and people with whom we can do no wrong. And at other times and with other people we never seem to get it right. Sometimes we go through a length of time when it seems like we'll never get it right or find the right one ever again. Then, out of nowhere, the next SO in our life appears.

In my case, I had to wait until I was 43 until I got lucky. I thought I had found the one when I was 19 and when I was 29 and so on. But no matter how I look at it now, everything had to happen the way it did for me and for her before I found (or re-found - we grew up in the same neighborhood) my current wife.

I can't say that we're an ideal fit that will last the test of time, but she is proof positive to me that all that we are meant to experience in this lifetime will all happen in its own sweet time. And, try as we might to fight it, it's going to happen in its own way anyway, so we might as well try our best to enjoy the ride.

--J

[Want2know]

I agree with you Jeffree... .DAS, you just have to continue to have hope, and work on other things that make you happy in the meantime.  x

[VanessaG]

Wait, wait, wait.

W2K, didn't this guy HIT you in the past?

I am worried for you. 

I think what you need to ask yourself is what would make YOU allow yourself to be so vulnerable with someone who not only emotionally but physically abused you?

What would you tell your best friend if she were in the same boat?

Sigh.  I'm worried for you.  Oh yeah.  I already said that.

VanessaG

[Want2know]

W2K, didn't this guy HIT you in the past?  I think what you need to ask yourself is what would make YOU allow yourself to be so vulnerable with someone who not only emotionally but physically abused you?

Yes, he physically abused me once (head butts), and I experienced his emotional abuse daily.  With some distance between us (he doesn't live here anymore, and I see him maybe once a week - either out in town, or him stopping by my house), there is no more verbal abuse, and I never put myself in the situation of potential physical abuse anymore (ie. drinking alone with him).  So, those things aren't present when he stops by.  

I know they happened, and in some way I have moved on from those bad memories, for a variety of reasons, so all I get now when he stops by is the person I am/have always been highly attracted to.  That's just the reality of it. I know the question is how can I enjoy and want to be with someone who is like he is and has done what he's done.  That's the complex thing about attraction... .it's not always attached to the logical brain.

What can I say... .I know on some level it's not healthy for me, but on another level, I enjoy it immensely.  I have not stopped, in any way, my pursuit of other men that are good for me.  I engage with my community daily, and always have an eye out for good men who I might be interested in pursuing something with.

I would tell a friend going through the same situation that she needs to be careful with what she is doing and not let it impede in any future healthy relationships, but I would also be able to empathize with what and why she is doing it, reiterating the need for her to do some soul searching.  That is where I'm at now... .soul searching, with the help of all you folks.   x

[innerspirit]

W2K, didn't this guy HIT you in the past?  I think what you need to ask yourself is what would make YOU allow yourself to be so vulnerable with someone who not only emotionally but physically abused you?

Yes, he physically abused me once (head butts), and I experienced his emotional abuse daily.  With some distance between us (he doesn't live here anymore, and I see him maybe once a week - either out in town, or him stopping by my house), there is no more verbal abuse, and I never put myself in the situation of potential physical abuse anymore (ie. drinking alone with him).  So, those things aren't present when he stops by.  

I know they happened, and in some way I have moved on from those bad memories, for a variety of reasons, so all I get now when he stops by is the person I am/have always been highly attracted to.  That's just the reality of it.

Please be very careful with this.  You've moved on from the bad memories... . all you get now is the person you've been highly attracted to.  Are you saying that he has really changed something deep about himself?  Are you still risking verbal abuse when he's sober?

IMO, unless he's done some serious work on himself, the reality of the situation is your history with him, with all of him.  The reality is you're still spinning a roulette wheel and sooner or later, the new, charrming honeymoon stage will wear off.

Why risk putting yourself through this again?

[Want2know]

Please be very careful with this.  You've moved on from the bad memories... . all you get now is the person you've been highly attracted to.  Are you saying that he has really changed something deep about himself?  Are you still risking verbal abuse when he's sober?

He has not changed, and probably never will.  I know that.  What has changed is our situation.  He is now free to do what he wants.  Before he felt like a kept man and was triggering his abuse.  If he does start being that way again, I will ask him to leave, and/or tell him to not stop by anymore.  What I am risking is continued emotional attachment to him... .that is why I'm posting all of this.  That is what I know is not good for me.  That is what I need to work towards, and am finding it difficult because our recent encounters have been great.  We both are looking elsewhere, but in the meantime, every so often we find comfort in each others company.  We may both have different ways we find comfort in each other, but that's what it is.  Once that stops, I'm sure the visits will stop.  In the meantime, I am finding it difficult to turn him away when he shows up.  I won't find it difficult if he becomes abusive again.  That, I promise.

[innerspirit]

He has not changed, and probably never will.  I know that.  What has changed is our situation.  He is now free to do what he wants.  Before he felt like a kept man and was triggering his abuse.  If he does start being that way again, I will ask him to leave, and/or tell him to not stop by anymore.  What I am risking is continued emotional attachment to him... .that is why I'm posting all of this.  That is what I know is not good for me.  That is what I need to work towards, and am finding it difficult because our recent encounters have been great.  We both are looking elsewhere, but in the meantime, every so often we find comfort in each others company.  We may both have different ways we find comfort in each other, but that's what it is.  Once that stops, I'm sure the visits will stop.  In the meantime, I am finding it difficult to turn him away when he shows up.  I won't find it difficult if he becomes abusive again.  That, I promise.

W2K -- as I started to read your post, I was thinking of a reply, "promise that you will cut it the minute it becomes abusive again."

I'm glad to see you're using the word promise.  Please make sure it's a promise to yourself -- that's where it's crucial.

[Want2know]

W2K -- as I started to read your post, I was thinking of a reply, "promise that you will cut it the minute it becomes abusive again."

I'm glad to see you're using the word promise.  Please make sure it's a promise to yourself -- that's where it's crucial.

Yes, it is an internal promise that I am highly aware of and look for when he's here.  It's almost like I'm detached from him in a self-protecting way and can see what he's doing now, much more than when he lived here.  My solace is that this is my house and not his anymore, and I DO have control over that, and he knows it.

For example, the last time he was here (Monday night), I let him and his kid/dog stay overnight, but in the morning, I could tell he wanted to stay when I went to work (it was raining and his job is outside, so he didn't have to go).  I would not let him stay, but didn't say it directly, yet he knew he couldn't stay by the things I was saying and doing.  I can sense he knows I'm different now and will not take his crap.  Perhaps, that's why he's being so nice... .if he doesn't act the way I want him to, he knows I won't let him in.  That's my power over the situation, and is probably why he doesn't show up more often.  It's got to be an ego buster for him, in some way.