freudian analysis

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was talking with my roomate about this whole situation and she nailed it:

I was chosen because I am much like her father (she told me that often, like i made similar jokes, not calling me that in bed or anything but still,  )

Because I am like that, she "split" off into her mother's behaviors and her inner child.

Her mom is completely emotionally abusive. By acting out in the way she did towards me she was looking for me (her father) to protect her inner child from her mother's abuse.

She was using my reactions to look for a way out from her mom's abuse.

Only problem is that no one could possibly survive the abuse her mom doled out and it almost killed her dad and the entire family.

[just_think]

I was talking with my roomate about this whole situation and she nailed it:

I was chosen because I am much like her father (she told me that often, like i made similar jokes, not calling me that in bed or anything but still,  )

Because I am like that, she "split" off into her mother's behaviors and her inner child.

Her mom is completely emotionally abusive. By acting out in the way she did towards me she was looking for me (her father) to protect her inner child from her mother's abuse.

She was using my reactions to look for a way out from her mom's abuse.

Only problem is that no one could possibly survive the abuse her mom doled out and it almost killed her dad and the entire family.

[once removed]

yeah, i'm a little uneasy about some of the freudian type analysis i've seen on here, but that's probably pretty much dead on.

i was the dad too. my informality. my lack of care about little things. my sense of humor. my smarts. she reminded me "girls fall in love with their dads." not necessarily true at all. i was called daddy a little bit, not really to the unhealthy point i read about on here. when i'd get to her place or something she'd talk to her cats and ask if they missed daddy, etc. she also told me she knew i could provide everything her dad didn't and would be a far far better father to our children.

the interesting thing is although she idealized her horrible horrible father at the beginning of our relationship, she WAS able to express and see him in shades of grey, and thats apparently not really common.

her father also used to attack his wife and daughter (my ex) with how much they needed to exercise. supposedly he wanted them to "get in shape" not "lose weight", was his excuse, but he'd attack them over their weight. i mean this guy was a nightmare, and the furthest thing from me in the world. anyway, closer to the end of the relationship she perceived that i called her "overweight." i believe this was PART of the beginning of the end. certainly, the split, with her making me into her dad, and then that whole hatred, having to get revenge stage was probably initiated by that. i was painted pretty black. sad considering i was obsessed with her body, would never say that to her, or anyone, and didn't, of course.

had another ex too who begged me to never leave, and told me she used something from all of the guys in her life as sort of a "father figure." 

anyway, i was the dad too.

[david]

MY BPDw's father was an alcoholic that beat his wife right in front of the kids. He beat his sons too but not his daughter (BPDw). Her mom probably was BPD. If not she had something because of the stories I heard. I used to think that the dynamic between her parents was not right. It sounded like dad would come home drunk and mom would get in his face and keep pushing until he exploded. I am in no way suggesting he was not responsible for his actions. It just seemed like she wanted him to beat her. Her dad died before I met her. My BPDw snapped after her mom died. She would get in my face and say some of the nastiest things to me and constantly push boundaries to the point I finally said no. I never hit her or even got close. It's not in my nature. I would leave and go for a walk, go out back and split wood, several other things. I came back from splitting wood once and she said I would probably have beaten her if I didn't leave ? She started comparing me to her father then too. It felt like she was trying to fix things in her past. She still tells stories that didn't happen accusing me of all kinds of things including hitting our boys. S12 tells me stories about her dad that BPDw is telling him now. Stories I never heard.

[ve01603]

Mine was a raging alcoholic and so was his dad.  Thedad emotionally/mentally abused the mom and that's what the BPD did to me.

Then he seemed to have schizophrenia so he actually visited his parents out of state, and punched his dad out for abusing the mom, while he was doing the same thing to me.

The last thing that I ever said to him was for him not to ever speak badly of his father because he was exactly the same.  He did not like that.

[OTH]

I was talking with my roomate about this whole situation and she nailed it:

I was chosen because I am much like her father (she told me that often, like i made similar jokes, not calling me that in bed or anything but still,  )

Because I am like that, she "split" off into her mother's behaviors and her inner child.

Her mom is completely emotionally abusive. By acting out in the way she did towards me she was looking for me (her father) to protect her inner child from her mother's abuse.

She was using my reactions to look for a way out from her mom's abuse.

Only problem is that no one could possibly survive the abuse her mom doled out and it almost killed her dad and the entire family.

I met the mom and dad. Dad was like me in some ways. Not a bad guy. No obvious issues. I was suprised because she talked about the horrible fights her parents had growing up. He was laid back so I didn't see it. I actually liked her mother because she seemed to have her crap together and was very engaging. I think she is BPD though. I have no evidence to base this on other than a huntch. Her husband is a big man but one of those "gentle giants". He snaps to attention on anything she asks. He is a big pus. My BPD always said she hated puss. She has dated some but there was no conflict for her so she said she got bored. I think her Mom figured out that this would be as good as it gets for her. She is the "bread winner" and runs the house. It is funny to... .Her mom tried to reach out to me and tell me something was wrong... .this was only after my BPD painted her and her stepdad black. I wanted to engage her but I knew at that point my BPD would rip my head off if I talked to her mom behind her back. Lol   

[jeffro]

my ex would said she picked me because she could see her dad in me thought that was nice to start with but ended up like father and daughter in the r/sred-flag

[muddychicken]

My exw told me all the time how I reminded her of her mother. Her father is a NPD ragaholic who has yearly periods of NC with his eldest son and sometimes my exw due to his mouth. She and her bro would often talk about how their mother takes her father's side in things. I would also hear stories about how she wouldn't defend them during his rages. I became her mother, the target of her rage because she couldn't very well do it to her mother with her father around. Amazing... when one is out of the FOG this all seems so logical but when you are in the maelstrome (sp?) you cannot make sense of it... .sad really.

[2010]

Keep in mind that being Borderline is not dealing with just a single memory or a traumatic event, but rather an enduring pattern of interaction that has persisted throughout their entire lifetime.  That pattern has been internalized, and it becomes part of their psyche, which means that people (Mother and Father, you, me) are all lumped together in a distorted perception.

Since you brought up Freudian analysis, it’s important to note that Borderline begins in the pre-oedipal stage.  That’s when Mom and child are whole and for reasons due to abusiveness or neglect, or the distorted perception of neglect, the child fails to acquire free will to “become” their own self.

Pre-oedipal is pre-triangulation (read definition).  The child clings *or is forced to cling* to the Mother figure.  The child doesn’t know that anyone else exists in the World. As the child grows, the perception of a new human arrives; Father. This is what Freud called the Oedipal stage.  We all go through it and it is the first triangulation (read definition) for all of us.

In the oedipal stage, our brains and bodies grow enough to make us aware of another human who is now there to either allow or disallow the conflict with the Mother. In our tiny brains, we factor in another person to trust (cling to,) which continues our failure to separate/individuate if we are disallowed free will.

Free will is disallowed if the Mother is abusive, the child is never alone, never at peace-and/or used as a scapegoat to shield from or scapegoat the Father. The Father may also scapegoat the Mother by using the child to escape the Mother’s rage.  The triangulation (read definition) places the female child into an intense oedipal/phallic conflict with the Father that results in fantasy thinking and splitting Mother and Father into rewarding and withdrawing objects. This is the swing of the pendulum, back and forth- black and white, with attention given to the energies of two people in the triangle with no energy leftover for the autonomy of the “self.” Meanwhile, the “self” does not emerge. It’s too busy dealing with being “subsumed” by the parents and trying to manage them.

This is the child's beginning of the fear of engulfment. It’s also when homicidal rage and suicidal depression, feelings of all/none emerge as a belief system and acting out behaviors begin. Borderline disorder, (sadly the outcome of this,) prevents detachment from the parents out of fear of suffering abandonment depression but it also causes immense pain and self hatred for staying connected to them. The disorder is persecution and bondage on one hand and the desire for love and attachment on the other.

Most humans go through abandonment depression as children. The Borderline child does not.  The Borderline condenses this phallic/oepidal conflict and transfers it on to new partners. The abandonment depression was too painful to suffer through to “become” and it results in clinging and relying on others to make decisions about “who am I?" A care-taking Father figure is needed to continue to act out the fantasy that the Borderline will be taken care of. (This person is mirrored for valuation and attached to. Borderlines are chameleons.)

Unfortunately, this is a fantasy pattern, and the same failure to separate/individuate will occur as it did in childhood. *It is a disorder.* Any confrontation of it will lead to paranoid projections due to memories of the previous scapegoating by the parents. These cognitive distortions are deeply embedded fears that arise from when she showed some signs of making her own decisions in the past. The anxiety this causes generally acts out in sado-masochistic ways towards herself as a failure- that are deeply embedded and intense- fashioned from years of failure to be an autonomous self.

Acting out behaviors are articulated by fantasy, especially as in “falling in love with my Master.”  Borderlines want to be slaves- they want to attach to and cling to a caretaker and be told what to do, but they also suffer from anger (fears of engulfment) when they sense you are taking too much control. It’s only in secret fantasy that Borderlines allow themselves the anger to be the sadist. For the most part they are masochists, with angry fantasies of revenge against the parents which is now transferred onto you.

If you confront the slavery, the acting out will be in motivation to your leaving in anger because “you are not taking care of me.”  The search will then continue for a Father figure caretaker with whom she will continue her fantasies of slavery and triangulation (read definition). These people are easy to find based on Borderline perceptions of victimization and the partner's rescuing.

Borderline is an attachment disorder based on persecution.  If Borderlines can get to the tie that binds them to the disorder, they can recognize what fuels their pathological behavior, but that's easier said than done.  If you feel you were chosen as a caretaking person, and you were counted on to relieve the abandonment depression (when their attempts to grow caused too much pain) the best thing you can do now is to allow them separation/individuation and detach.

That may mean setting limits to your interaction (remember, caretaking is perceived as control to them,) letting them feel the abandonment depression pain that they fear and letting go of the overall outcome in order to live your own fulfilling life.

If you don’t detach, a Borderline will carry you into the next triangulation (read definition), motivated by the distorted perception of your persecution- just like they suffered through in childhood.  

[ArtistGuy70]

Keep in mind that being Borderline is not dealing with just a single memory or a traumatic event, but rather an enduring pattern of interaction that has persisted throughout their entire lifetime.  That pattern has been internalized, and it becomes part of their psyche, which means that people (Mother and Father, you, me) are all lumped together in a distorted perception.

Since you brought up Freudian analysis, it’s important to note that Borderline begins in the pre-oedipal stage.  That’s when Mom and child are whole and for reasons due to abusiveness or neglect, or the distorted perception of neglect, the child fails to acquire free will to “become” their own self.

Pre-oedipal is pre-triangulation (read definition).  The child clings *or is forced to cling* to the Mother figure.  The child doesn’t know that anyone else exists in the World. As the child grows, the perception of a new human arrives; Father. This is what Freud called the Oedipal stage.  We all go through it and it is the first triangulation (read definition) for all of us.

In the oedipal stage, our brains and bodies grow enough to make us aware of another human who is now there to either allow or disallow the conflict with the Mother. In our tiny brains, we factor in another person to trust (cling to,) which continues our failure to separate/individuate if we are disallowed free will.

Free will is disallowed if the Mother is abusive, the child is never alone, never at peace-and/or used as a scapegoat to shield from or scapegoat the Father. The Father may also scapegoat the Mother by using the child to escape the Mother’s rage.  The triangulation (read definition) places the female child into an intense oedipal/phallic conflict with the Father that results in fantasy thinking and splitting Mother and Father into rewarding and withdrawing objects. This is the swing of the pendulum, back and forth- black and white, with attention given to the energies of two people in the triangle with no energy leftover for the autonomy of the “self.” Meanwhile, the “self” does not emerge. It’s too busy dealing with being “subsumed” by the parents and trying to manage them.

This is the child's beginning of the fear of engulfment. It’s also when homicidal rage and suicidal depression, feelings of all/none emerge as a belief system and acting out behaviors begin. Borderline disorder, (sadly the outcome of this,) prevents detachment from the parents out of fear of suffering abandonment depression but it also causes immense pain and self hatred for staying connected to them. The disorder is persecution and bondage on one hand and the desire for love and attachment on the other.

Most humans go through abandonment depression as children. The Borderline child does not.  The Borderline condenses this phallic/oepidal conflict and transfers it on to new partners. The abandonment depression was too painful to suffer through to “become” and it results in clinging and relying on others to make decisions about “who am I?" A care-taking Father figure is needed to continue to act out the fantasy that the Borderline will be taken care of. (This person is mirrored for valuation and attached to. Borderlines are chameleons.)

Unfortunately, this is a fantasy pattern, and the same failure to separate/individuate will occur as it did in childhood. *It is a disorder.* Any confrontation of it will lead to paranoid projections due to memories of the previous scapegoating by the parents. These cognitive distortions are deeply embedded fears that arise from when she showed some signs of making her own decisions in the past. The anxiety this causes generally acts out in sado-masochistic ways towards herself as a failure- that are deeply embedded and intense- fashioned from years of failure to be an autonomous self.

Acting out behaviors are articulated by fantasy, especially as in “falling in love with my Master.”  Borderlines want to be slaves- they want to attach to and cling to a caretaker and be told what to do, but they also suffer from anger (fears of engulfment) when they sense you are taking too much control. It’s only in secret fantasy that Borderlines allow themselves the anger to be the sadist. For the most part they are masochists, with angry fantasies of revenge against the parents which is now transferred onto you.

If you confront the slavery, the acting out will be in motivation to your leaving in anger because “you are not taking care of me.”  The search will then continue for a Father figure caretaker with whom she will continue her fantasies of slavery and triangulation (read definition). These people are easy to find based on Borderline perceptions of victimization and the partner's rescuing.

Borderline is an attachment disorder based on persecution.  If Borderlines can get to the tie that binds them to the disorder, they can recognize what fuels their pathological behavior, but that's easier said than done.  If you feel you were chosen as a caretaking person, and you were counted on to relieve the abandonment depression (when their attempts to grow caused too much pain) the best thing you can do now is to allow them separation/individuation and detach.

That may mean setting limits to your interaction (remember, caretaking is perceived as control to them,) letting them feel the abandonment depression pain that they fear and letting go of the overall outcome in order to live your own fulfilling life.

If you don’t detach, a Borderline will carry you into the next triangulation (read definition), motivated by the distorted perception of your persecution- just like they suffered through in childhood.  

I get so much from reading your posts.

Yes, I was chosen as the Father Figure and Master. She called me Master, Sir and Daddy. She wanted to feel safe and secure, punished and rewarded, always in bed. She had a very fractured relationship with her father growing up and he died years before I met her.

I was triangulated with her married boss (old enough to be her father btw) who was rich and took care of her behind my back with presents, money, her job security, etc. When I found out, I ended things.

But, you are so right. They rely on the new father figure to define who they are. Their identity.

I was her main photographer. When our r/s ended, she deleted all of her modeling portfolios, canceled her shoots and told everyone she has to find herself.

I replaced her in my artwork and since doing that, she reactivated her portfolio with new shots, is getting a boob job this week, repainted her house inside and out, got a new car, etc. etc. I heard she is still with her boss on the sly. She is telling people she has "reinvented herself." (and calling me the dysfunctional one... .the controller... .petty, etc.).

I do not want to be with her anymore. I have not contacted her since last year. But I admit I still am trying to figure her out and why she did the things she did to me. To everyone. Damn. I wish I did not care still.

[ve01603]

Keep in mind that being Borderline is not dealing with just a single memory or a traumatic event, but rather an enduring pattern of interaction that has persisted throughout their entire lifetime.  That pattern has been internalized, and it becomes part of their psyche, which means that people (Mother and Father, you, me) are all lumped together in a distorted perception.

Since you brought up Freudian analysis, it’s important to note that Borderline begins in the pre-oedipal stage.  That’s when Mom and child are whole and for reasons due to abusiveness or neglect, or the distorted perception of neglect, the child fails to acquire free will to “become” their own self.

Pre-oedipal is pre-triangulation (read definition).  The child clings *or is forced to cling* to the Mother figure.  The child doesn’t know that anyone else exists in the World. As the child grows, the perception of a new human arrives; Father. This is what Freud called the Oedipal stage.  We all go through it and it is the first triangulation (read definition) for all of us.

In the oedipal stage, our brains and bodies grow enough to make us aware of another human who is now there to either allow or disallow the conflict with the Mother. In our tiny brains, we factor in another person to trust (cling to,) which continues our failure to separate/individuate if we are disallowed free will.

Free will is disallowed if the Mother is abusive, the child is never alone, never at peace-and/or used as a scapegoat to shield from or scapegoat the Father. The Father may also scapegoat the Mother by using the child to escape the Mother’s rage.  The triangulation (read definition) places the female child into an intense oedipal/phallic conflict with the Father that results in fantasy thinking and splitting Mother and Father into rewarding and withdrawing objects. This is the swing of the pendulum, back and forth- black and white, with attention given to the energies of two people in the triangle with no energy leftover for the autonomy of the “self.” Meanwhile, the “self” does not emerge. It’s too busy dealing with being “subsumed” by the parents and trying to manage them.

This is the child's beginning of the fear of engulfment. It’s also when homicidal rage and suicidal depression, feelings of all/none emerge as a belief system and acting out behaviors begin. Borderline disorder, (sadly the outcome of this,) prevents detachment from the parents out of fear of suffering abandonment depression but it also causes immense pain and self hatred for staying connected to them. The disorder is persecution and bondage on one hand and the desire for love and attachment on the other.

Most humans go through abandonment depression as children. The Borderline child does not.  The Borderline condenses this phallic/oepidal conflict and transfers it on to new partners. The abandonment depression was too painful to suffer through to “become” and it results in clinging and relying on others to make decisions about “who am I?" A care-taking Father figure is needed to continue to act out the fantasy that the Borderline will be taken care of. (This person is mirrored for valuation and attached to. Borderlines are chameleons.)

Unfortunately, this is a fantasy pattern, and the same failure to separate/individuate will occur as it did in childhood. *It is a disorder.* Any confrontation of it will lead to paranoid projections due to memories of the previous scapegoating by the parents. These cognitive distortions are deeply embedded fears that arise from when she showed some signs of making her own decisions in the past. The anxiety this causes generally acts out in sado-masochistic ways towards herself as a failure- that are deeply embedded and intense- fashioned from years of failure to be an autonomous self.

Acting out behaviors are articulated by fantasy, especially as in “falling in love with my Master.”  Borderlines want to be slaves- they want to attach to and cling to a caretaker and be told what to do, but they also suffer from anger (fears of engulfment) when they sense you are taking too much control. It’s only in secret fantasy that Borderlines allow themselves the anger to be the sadist. For the most part they are masochists, with angry fantasies of revenge against the parents which is now transferred onto you.

If you confront the slavery, the acting out will be in motivation to your leaving in anger because “you are not taking care of me.”  The search will then continue for a Father figure caretaker with whom she will continue her fantasies of slavery and triangulation (read definition). These people are easy to find based on Borderline perceptions of victimization and the partner's rescuing.

Borderline is an attachment disorder based on persecution.  If Borderlines can get to the tie that binds them to the disorder, they can recognize what fuels their pathological behavior, but that's easier said than done.  If you feel you were chosen as a caretaking person, and you were counted on to relieve the abandonment depression (when their attempts to grow caused too much pain) the best thing you can do now is to allow them separation/individuation and detach.

That may mean setting limits to your interaction (remember, caretaking is perceived as control to them,) letting them feel the abandonment depression pain that they fear and letting go of the overall outcome in order to live your own fulfilling life.

If you don’t detach, a Borderline will carry you into the next triangulation (read definition), motivated by the distorted perception of your persecution- just like they suffered through in childhood.  

Interesting.  Mine hated his dad.  When he went out to Arizona in February, he actually punched his 75 year old father.  Too bad he was not arrested.  After that, I had the feeling and something that I read here lately, made me feel that he was putting me in the role of his dad.  :)oes that make any sense.  I also feel that he is gay and just has a woman around all the time to dispell any suspicion.  

Does this make any sense?

[canucky]

What 2010 writes makes a lot of sense. Go through the cycles and explains to you how it has translated to who they are today. In my case it was her mother that was abusive and i took the role of the father whom she respects very much till her left her their with her mother and hand of abuse. During their marriage her father left and started a new life since her mother was BPD I believe herself. Funny since her father was open to this in conversation with me over the years in describing his relationship. He feels very guilty for this from what I can tell.

To this day everyone still pushes it under the rug and my exgf was the worst affected by what happened between her parents and the engulfment or lack of thereof with her mother. Her mother eventually sent her to a foster home.

[OTH]

Thanks 2010. Great post.

[Marcie]

I was his passive mother, the thing is I am not a passive person. So yea same scenario. Always having to be on my toes and defend myself really changed me. I turned into a person I did not recognize and started becoming a doormat

[OTH]

whoops

[susanleona]

Expbdbf hated his father, but kept telling me very often how different I was from his mother, so I'm not sure if I was meant to be either.  Yet for some reason every time he would say how unlike his mother I was, he always seems so surprised that I was not just like her... .  He called me his "Canadian mother" but I always said I'm not your mother so stop putting me in that role (usually when I was critical).