R/S post mortem leads to regret and self-loathing

[Vinnie]

After 20 years of marriage, she's gone and now has a new boyfriend.

It always seemed like I was giving 90% to her 10.  I realize now that what I hoped would secure her love forever - treating her like a princess and serving her every whim-- may have been one of the thing that caused her to feel I was  incapable of giving what she needed.

Or am I just beating myself up?

How many of you men (not suffering from niceguy syndrome) kept boundaries, insisted on some reciprocity in the r/s, and refused to tolerate contempt, insults, etc, ... .  still had your relationship go south?

I find myself wondering if it would have made a difference if I had been different.  I think being beat to hell by the BPD all these years, I became jellyfish toward the end when she needed something solid to push against.

[benny2]

I did the same thing to my BPDbf thinking that was what he wanted. I catered to him every way possible. I did not know at the time what was wrong with him and constantly thought it was something I was doing wrong. When I would ask him what am I doing wrong, he would say" nothing, its just me, if anything your to much" Maybe I did to much, I just don't know. Its so complicated.

[GustheDog]

My r/s went south when I began to *assert* some boundaries - I've seen others echo this sentiment as well.  And even these were hardly stringent expectations.  E.g., telling her our future children would probably not have the same luxury she had of attending boarding school, conveying a certain reluctance to open a joint bank account, and suggesting we reach a firm agreement as to how to allocate financial responsibilities/spending allowances, etc. 

I also remember telling her I couldn't see her one month (we were LD for our last year together) because I was taking the bar exam - we ordinarily saw each other 2-3 times/mo.  Next thing I know she's spending lots of time with a male co-worker, having him over for dinner without telling me beforehand, etc.  When I told her this was not acceptable, and mentioned that *she* constantly gave me 20 questions about these things (e.g., mandated I keep a photo of us together in my office and was "so relieved" to find out my secretary was 60 years old (and therefore not a "threat"), she started ignoring me, hanging up on me, and pretty much being a nasty you-know-what.  In other words, we'd entered the devaluation/hater phase.

I'm sure there were others as well - I just seem to remember stuff falling apart shortly after these discussions.

[nolisan]

Have to echo Gus

When I started to put up some boundaries she stated that I no longer "met her needs" and the r/s unraveled. I had entered the "devalued" stage.

Don't second guess yourself - read up on co dependance, heal up and find a "normal" woman. You are worth it!

My r/s went south when I began to *assert* some boundaries - I've seen others echo this sentiment as well.  And even these were hardly stringent expectations.  E.g., telling her our future children would probably not have the same luxury she had of attending boarding school, conveying a certain reluctance to open a joint bank account, and suggesting we reach a firm agreement as to how to allocate financial responsibilities/spending allowances, etc. 

I also remember telling her I couldn't see her one month (we were LD for our last year together) because I was taking the bar exam - we ordinarily saw each other 2-3 times/mo.  Next thing I know she's spending lots of time with a male co-worker, having him over for dinner without telling me beforehand, etc.  When I told her this was not acceptable, and mentioned that *she* constantly gave me 20 questions about these things (e.g., mandated I keep a photo of us together in my office and was "so relieved" to find out my secretary was 60 years old (and therefore not a "threat"), she started ignoring me, hanging up on me, and pretty much being a nasty you-know-what.  In other words, we'd entered the devaluation/hater phase.

I'm sure there were others as well - I just seem to remember stuff falling apart shortly after these discussions.

[Wraith]

This is interesting. I find it intriguing how BPD's only want to respond positively to situations with no boundaries. What they essentially want is everything for themselves, nothing for the rest. They really don't seem to mind being unfair.

Having no boundaries allows for them to do whatever it is they want, without considering the well being of the partner. And when you start to put some, they respond negatively to it, on the premise that they won't be able to do what they normally do (cheat, lie, have multiple partners, etc. Well, from my experience at least).

In the end, I find it sad on how BPD's see the world. I was so involved and passionate about helping my ex improve, but situations like the above just made it impossible to do so.

[Consumed]

Vinnie, Hope you are able to get some peace from this site. Just keep writing. I have received so much support. I really, REALLY relate with your situation. I have been beating myself up. I called it quits 2 days ago. I have recently stated in another post I feel like a doormat. I have tried every possible nice tone, calming, relaxation and just plain kiss her behind to no avail. Beating ourselves up will come and go. I have been beating myself up badly everyday for not ending it, which causes so much anxiety. It's extremely hard to realize there's little chance for any positive change, I thought sometime she's gotta see what's happening, right? Wrong! She is able to apologize a day or two later, followed immediately by blaming me for it. Anger that arrives no matter how gentle and supportive I try to be. When I started seeing her, I didn't look at the red flags, (and there was a sea of them) which is another source to beat myself up. I am trying so hard to have no contact. It's only been 2 days. She showed up at my house this morning with her head spinning around and spewing pea soup, because I did not read her texts or answer the phone yesterday. I have to remember her behavior is not something I can control or change; that's up to her, which is not likely. I have to keep writing on here. I can't pretend to put it out of my mind or think I'm going to just forget about it. However, I need to focus on me. Can you tell I'm trying to convince myself. It's not bad to be a good person and want to treat someone well, I just have to quit selling myself out to do it. Hang in there, There's a lot of great people here that have gone through everything we have.

[GustheDog]

You'll see this bit of advice posted around the boards a lot, and it's *very* good advice: Go find and read the member "2010"'s posts.

I read every single one of them, and then I bought and read the sources that are cited in some (Masterson, in particular).  If you don't have the time or a scholarly bent, though, just stick to the posts.  Either way, I found it very transformative and it has changed my whole perspective and put my recovery on overdrive.

In a nutshell, BPD is a persecution complex.  Borderlines behave according to a set of compulsions and distorted perceptions that repeat themselves in every relationship they forge (indeed, the literature actually refers to it as an "interaction," not a r/s).  They are compelled to attach and cling and mirror, etc., and they are later compelled to flee and hate and devalue, etc.

Irrespective of what you did or did not do - whether you asserted boundaries or failed to assert them - you still would have lost (btw, boundaries are to protect us, not to change them).  You still would be split black, you'd still have "hurt" them, and you'd still be seen as a dangerous persecutor or villain.

Again, these perceptions are not rooted in reality - they are the distorted and disordered thoughts of someone with a mental illness.  That they occur in largely uniform patterns both across individual relationships as well as across individual sufferers confirms this fact.

Our relationships were slated to fail from day one.  Period.  It may be true that certain techniques can be employed to stay idealized longer, or to prevent them from splitting you pitch black and cutting you out permanently - but, whatever you do, you will at some point be split black and seen as an all-bad persecutor.  This *IS* the disorder.  Its origins are a failed attachment in childhood which resulted in the BPD's arrested development.

If you define "success" as maintaining ties with a borderline while you endure being split back and forth between white and black, being recycled and idealized again and then devalued yet again, but never having this person leave you *for good* - then maybe some of the tools here can help with that.

But short of a very serious commitment to intense therapy, a BPD relationship can't be "saved" in the normal sense.  It's a disorder.  This is what it does.  It's completely out of our hands, and it's an equal-opportunity destroyer.  It was there before your relationship occurred and it'll be there to guarantee the next person gets identical treatment.

[waitaminute]

I let my boundaries go pretty far. If I even expressed some reservation about accepting her behavior, I received the complete drama show about how I was ruining her life. There was not room for compromise or negotiation either. 

So when I felt that the benefits of the rs no longer could justify accepting her behavior, I initiated my one and only breakup.

She could have had just about anything from me if she had been open and honest. But she refused to be open and honest.

[Vinnie]

I do feel encouraged after reading everyone's posts, thank you guys. 

GustheDog, I took your advice and have been reading 2010's old posts for the last hour and a half.  It is adding so much to my insight, and hopefully insight will bring some relief from the regret.

What is interesting is that I really wasn't co-dependent in my first marriage. (Wife was wounded from childhood incest, and kept up walls emotionally. When she strayed and eventually left the marriage, it didn't even hurt that much except feeling the kids' pain.)  I wonder if a healthy, normal person suddenly woke up and found themselves married to a pwBPD, if they wouldn't eventually exhibit full blown co-dependency just out of compassion and the desire to save the r/s.

[Consumed]

Hi, Can you tell me how to find "2010's" post. Not sure what to do to get there. I put it in search and it didn't seem to work. Thank you

[Changed4safety]

I struggled with just kind of an... .  incomprehension.  SURELY, if I am patient and loving, he will trust me not to be that evil woman who was soo mean to him last time (he chose to cheat on me, IRL and online).  SURELY if I pay for his needs, so that he does not have to worry about his medications and medical expenses, and get him things for his hobby, he will realize I love him (We started the hobby together, but he told me he didn't like me being involved, he wanted something "just for him" since we had so much together time.).  SURELY if I tell him I don't have money for something he won't ask me for things I cannot afford  (He would rage and break things).  SURELY he is so upset about choking me it won't happen again (twice more.).  I'm not a stupid woman, I simple -could not fathom- this behavior, and I just figured I wasn't doing it enough, the right way, at the right time, with the right words etc.   To me it was like dropping a spoon and watching it float up--eventually gravity had to kick in, didn't it?  

I finally remembered the definition of insanity.  

[ambi]

You can start here on this post and then click on the user name to see more posts from 2010.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.msg1548981;topicseen#msg1548981

[joanlee]

Wow, this post I can relate to. I lasted 36 years in a BPD marriage. Just that alone is enough to make you severely depressed, thinking about the years wasted. Sometimes it's overwhelming. I try to live in the present and look toward the future, but right now I'm stuck trying to figure out what my problem was. I always tried not to take things personally, and figured the grass is always greener, etc... .  tried to look on the bright side. I never even found out about this illness until after the divorce. I so wish I'd known earlier. I thought he was odd, and alcoholic, but I didn't know there was a name for this.  It's just so gut-wrenchingly sad to realize how hard I tried to keep the marriage together (I had parents who didn't believe in divorce), and the whole time he never really cared. He did act like it, however, because it reflected well on him. It was always about him. When I started to look older (after age 50), he lost interest in me. He called me 'frumpy'... .  but HE wasn't getting older. Just me. No longer could he flaunt his pretty little wife around. I always felt so bad for him. His father was mean and ruthless, and told him he hated him at a young age. Obviously this is the reason for his illness, and he had a strange relationship with his mother, who overcompensated and was a martyr. I finally left my husband a year and a half ago, he pulled a suicide stunt and embarrassed the whole family. Now, just like your wife, he has a new girlfriend as well. The widow of his old high school best friend. Amazing how quickly he chanaged gears. All the emotional ups & downs I put up with thru the years, worried about him, his health, his everything. And he never really cared. It's just almost too much to think about sometimes. The hardest thing I've had to do is focus on myself. I've had great help from Al-anon for this. It's hard after all these years to even know what that self is anymore, and what I really want in life. I am 63 at this point... .  I just know what I DON'T want. Good luck to you all and thanks for the posts... .  I'm learning every day.

[benny2]

Well good for Joanlee that after all those years you have given yourself a chance. Most people would have just thrown in the towel and lived with the disfunction. I give you tons of credit and I wish you the best of happiness.

[joanlee]

Thanks diane... .  I thought about it, and tried hard to save the marriage, but no go. I feel lucky to be alive, I've lost so many friends and family. Need to live my life!

[Wimowe]

My failure to set boundaries is one of my greatest regrets about my recently ended (NCD32!) relationship with my uBPDxgf.  I was inhibited by an intense fear that she would act out by getting involved with another man.  Certainly it would most likely pain me to see her with someone else -- that's normal -- but I remain perplexed about how outsized and over-the-top my fear (and accompanying obsessions) was.

Irrespective of what you did or did not do - whether you asserted boundaries or failed to assert them - you still would have lost

If I even expressed some reservation about accepting her behavior, I received the complete drama show about how I was ruining her life.

Having no boundaries allows for [pwBPD] to do whatever it is they want, without considering the well being of the partner. And when you start to put some, they respond negatively to it.

I appreciate the validation, as this was my experience as well. I blame myself for failing to set boundaries that I should have.  How could she trust me, feel safe with me, if I wasn't able to set boundaries?  However, as I reflect on the relationship I recall that I did struggle to set boundaries, both external and internal, with gradually increasing success, albeit I was clumsy and inartful at the beginning.  (External boundaries delimit acceptable and unacceptable behavior; internal boundaries concerned how much time/energy I expended on her, e.g., obsessing, neediness, fear, jealousy, need to control.)

I set external boundaries reactively ("I felt hurt when you ignored me at the party" rather than proactively ("We can go to the party together on condition that you not ignore me while we're there" and I expressed them in ouch terms -- i.e., what I found hurtful -- rather than acceptable/ unacceptable terms.  For too long, I took her at her word that she didn't want to do anything to hurt me (frequently belied by her actions).  I relied on her good will and good intentions.

When I did assert external boundaries, she sometimes accused me of "tantrums" and "brattiness."  As I mastered my fears, obsessions, jealousy, and so on she seemed to distance herself more and I wondered if this was because she didn't find me as much "fun."

My T says two of the basics for any emotionally committed relationship are accountability and communication.  I'm accountable to a fault (pun unintended), but not so good at communication.  I have more work to do in this area.