My leaving plan... getting started.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

You've got it.    No matter how we say it, no matter how loud we say it, they can't hear it.  Anything to do with our feelings, our thoughts, it is not going to get through.  I spent so much effort trying to fine tune how I spoke to him, and nope, nothing worked.  All he cares about is how he feels.  Period.  So that is all you have when you communicate.  You can't make a duck bark.  You can say to him, I hear you quack quack quack and that is understandable because that is how ducks think.  It is soothing to him and it keeps the peace.  He can't meet your needs, save your feelings for here, with a therapist and your support network. 

[Rose Tiger]

You've got it.    No matter how we say it, no matter how loud we say it, they can't hear it.  Anything to do with our feelings, our thoughts, it is not going to get through.  I spent so much effort trying to fine tune how I spoke to him, and nope, nothing worked.  All he cares about is how he feels.  Period.  So that is all you have when you communicate.  You can't make a duck bark.  You can say to him, I hear you quack quack quack and that is understandable because that is how ducks think.  It is soothing to him and it keeps the peace.  He can't meet your needs, save your feelings for here, with a therapist and your support network. 

[real lady]

You've got it.    No matter how we say it, no matter how loud we say it, they can't hear it.  Anything to do with our feelings, our thoughts, it is not going to get through.  I spent so much effort trying to fine tune how I spoke to him, and nope, nothing worked.  All he cares about is how he feels.  Period. 

so true... .  mine is a bit psychic and seems to "find" things and attributes "what I think" to my silence about things. I show an "it is ok, I am not concerned" attitude about things but he WANTS me to be concerned and quickly gets irate over my lack of enthusiasm about HIS game, etc.

So that is all you have when you communicate.  You can't make a duck bark.  You can say to him, I hear you quack quack quack and that is understandable because that is how ducks think. 

Great "sound bite" for me to remember... .  thanks. 

He can't meet your needs, save your feelings for here, with a therapist and your support network. 

No I understand that he is NOT meeting my needs or cares for my feelings or thoughts. I will save it for the counselor. I have a call into the "head" counselor who will hopefully "match" us with someone in our area that we will go to. Honestly, I am going FOR HIM... .  I don't even truly see that he will use this OPPORTUNITY to help us or himself... .  just to vent how I am BPD, crazy, and disrespect him constantly... .   Last May, when we went to a counselor, it was a "bash real lady" situation, like every other counseling with a BPD... .  I don't care to "go to couple's counseling"... .  I told him that this should focus on "saving our relationship" and lead to marriage or it will confirm my leaving... .  I am kinda "black and white" on this issue... .  

[Rose Tiger]

I hear your resolve.    Since you are planning to hang out for a bit in this situation, what would it hurt to be enthusiastic about his interests, like gaming? I'm thinking for this time, to make things as pleasant as possible, listening to his interests and being enthusiastic might be a plus.  They are so childlike emotionally, if you can wrap your mind around this, it could help you weather these next few months.

[real lady]

I hear your resolve.    Since you are planning to hang out for a bit in this situation, what would it hurt to be enthusiastic about his interests, like gaming?

I was thinking of this JUST this morning... .  RT ... .  the problem is that I am limited TO gaming because other than music, (he plays guitar but hasn't touched one but for a few minutes in the past 2 years and I was encouraging him to get it out and PLAY) he hasn't thought of doing anything else in the past year since he has been "home" more. I was thinking that if I could "be enthusiastic" to watch him for 30 minutes that maybe, he might become more open to spending time AWAY from the computer... .  don't know.

I'm thinking for this time, to make things as pleasant as possible, listening to his interests and being enthusiastic might be a plus. 

Oh I agree... .  the only other thing that he talks about or seems to want to hear from me is the daily news... .  

They are so childlike emotionally, if you can wrap your mind around this, it could help you weather these next few months.

I think that this is really a good idea; I just am a little concerned that he will try to SUCK ME INTO his world and then I have to "get away" to get on with LIFE around us. I don't like the feeling of "being part of it"... .  I will think about it though... .  thanks. 

[Changed4safety]

RL, I am a geek, I actually met my exBPD playing World of Warcraft (I know six couples who met and are happily married doing that!) and he introduced me to other games.  I don't play other games though.  For me it was fun to just hang out with him and watch him play through the more story/character driven games that are out there.  If you like, shoot me a PM with a list of the games he likes to play, and I can steer you to some that might be more interesting for you.   

[Rose Tiger]

Do you take the dogs out for walks and such?  Good exercise, and gets those endorphins going.     Another fun thing that I liked while with ex was experimenting with pies.  I started with homemade apple pie and worked my way up to banana cream.  It was like science experiments in the kitchen and my daughter enjoyed helping.  I got the idea from the movie Waitress, she invents all these pies like "I don't want Earl's baby pie" while she is pregnant by her total jerk husband.  Of course, hubby was thrilled with homemade pie.  Win, win.

[real lady]

RL, I am a geek, I actually met my exBPD playing World of Warcraft... .  If you like, shoot me a PM with a list of the games he likes to play, and I can steer you to some that might be more interesting for you.   

Thanks Changed4safety; nice chatting with you on PM... .  when we were "young", I hung out with him and watched him play some video games, some games we played together and then we played D&:) with friends... .  he has ALWAYS been VERY into games... .  it is his one outlet of "bad emotions" and "feeds his ego" where life has disappointed him ... .  but I on the other hand... .  went on in LIFE and I graduated from college (he did not) and had a child (he could not) and am raising a very special young man, taking care of him (*uBPDso), his two mastiff puppies, a cat and two birds... .  I don't have time to work outside the home for income... .  which I must do soon... .  

When I first reunited with him (2 years ago), he said NOTHING about game playing... .  after a few months he "hinted" that he hasn't played his game and then started playing about 4-5 hrs/day on his day off work... .  and then he stopped working and is HERE ALL DAY to play his game. In the past 4 months he has been playing nearly non stop... .  up to 15 hrs a day... .  9 hrs a day AT THE LEAST (when he had business to take care of)... .  and ALL THE WHILE, I take care of him and his pets and his house and my son and I live with them while he has his face in his computer. It is NOT a life that I want, ever wanted and HE KNOWS that I want NOTHING to do with it... .  if he tries to make this "a point of contention"... .  then it just "paints me more black" to allow me to leave/him push me away... .  very sad but this is what HE and I have chosen.

If his addiction doesn't show him that HE NEEDS HELP, then nothing that I will be able to say or do will cause him to want to make any changes and I will NOT continue to live like this... .  I will only be staying now if I can "have some more space" (office and separate bedroom), have transportation to take my son to school... .  I can work AND go to school, and just sleep here... .  this is our life with my pwBPD... .  it sucks. I have told him that he is ":)*mned lucky" to have me... .  and if he "loses" me again, it will be for good... .  I mean it.

Do you take the dogs out for walks and such?  Good exercise, and gets those endorphins going.    

Oh yes, take walks with my son but uBPDso does NOT walk the dogs though he promised to walk the boy when we first got him... .  he is now 17 months old.

Of course, hubby was thrilled with homemade pie.  Win, win.

  I have become MORE interested in cooking and preparing savory meals and working more on desserts, etc. He LOVES food so it is a WIN WIN.

[Changed4safety]

My ex used them as an escape and to "be someone else", to hide from his reality.  Games can be great fun, but like anything else, you get obsessed with them and they become unhealthy.  It sure does sound like your H is addicted. 

[real lady]

Yes, he IS addicted and has ALWAYS had an "addictive personality" (he says so) and I see that clearly more than ever now. I DO NOT come between him and his "gaming". I have given him AMPLE chances to "make it up to me" for ALL THE HOURS that he had spent prior to my "total detachment". I don't see how anyone can have relationship with a person who is so addicted to gaming (or substance may be the same), it takes TOO MUCH TIME away from the relationship to "have" a relationship with him.

I told him that "we don't have a relationship"... .  I could only see it IF I were AS ADDICTED to the game as he is. I won't get involved because I actually HAVE a life that I want (wanted to live with him) to live without him if he is NOT ABLE to have relationship with me that is healthy... .  I am really NOT counting on it but I still see myself living here for a while... .  He admits that he "needs me" even though it is not due to the relationship. He's "grown accustomed to my face" and LIKES that I am around but really doesn't have a clue that I am "not really here" anymore.

I can NOT find my resume that I used about 10 years ago and could just "freshen up" SO I have to start from scratch.  so Oh well... .  the interview with the newspaper and resume are my PRIORITIES this week.

[real lady]

The interview (on Mental Health today) went well and if you are interested, please PM me and I will send a link via PM so you can read it; yes it will have my REAL identity and so I will NOT be posting a link openly. It went very well and I can't wait to see it... .  maybe in THIS coming Sunday's paper.

I realized that I have really dealt with a LOT OF LOSS during this two years with my uBPDso. I have lost my mother, my father, I turned 50, I "lost" my income and car and "freedom" of sorts. I lost my "music" and the ability to sing and perform publicly, for now... .  I hope to get that back. I HAVE LOST A LOT.

I have lost ALL hope that he and I will EVER be ABLE to talk about what "the problem" is between us and that is even leaving BPD OUT of the conversation. Even the slightest, "I would like to make some plans for summer vacation" comes up as being a blame and accusation that something that I have done makes it IMPOSSIBLE... .  he NEVER seems to TRY to see the "big picture" but immediately GOES TO BLAMING... .  

He has asked me, in the past, "What is wrong?" sometimes with a bit of sincerity and a touch of compassion... .  but more often than not, it was stated with a "with you?" or "now?" added... .  to these questions I looked at him and told him that I appreciate that he is concerned enough to ask but I would tell him that "I don't feel like being yelled at about it" and that would END the conversation. I could not cry or share my feelings especially if they had anything to do with him for more than a minute before he turned the conversation around to "him feeling hurt over how badly I disrespect him"... .  wow... .  I stopped trying. I have kept my thoughts and feelings to myself and realize that he may never, without extensive therapy, ever understand and accept how HIS BEHAVIOR has killed my love for him.

He has recently said that he would go to couple's counseling (which I don't feel would do anything but CONFIRM my understanding) which MIGHT SHOW him that unless HE is willing to work on himself, there is NO HOPE for a friendship between us. I am certainly NOT thinking that it will bring anything "good". I would only go if he REALLY WANTED to go and just the other day, he dysregulated a bit and said "I am NOT going to couple's counseling, you can call and CANCEL it".

It is really very sad. The one person whom we have loved the most (most likely, it has been him for me), and whom we would do ANYTHING for is unable to have an HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP with us. No matter HOW MUCH WE CHANGE... .  I am convinced that we could NEVER change ENOUGH for them... .  they would always be pointing at us and blaming us for something; that is how it is with my severe pwBPD seems to be. OH, he has moments of laughter, he looks at me and smiles but I KNOW that these are ONLY MOMENTARY glimpses of the man I love, not the man who has taken over his life and ruined our life together. I will miss the man I love when I leave... .  but probably NOT more than I miss him now and that is a consolation to me.

To "have him near me physically but NOT have him near me emotionally", has crushed my spirit, shattered every dream that I had believed HAD come true and totally ZAPPED ME OF ENERGY to continue trying. As he has said "I AM DONE"... .  I have "given up" on trying to reach him, trying to LOVE him, trying to help him be happy... .  I have myself, I love myself and I am happy... .  by myself and will be even MORE happy alone again KNOWING that the love that my pwBPD and I had shared WAS love for a short time and then it "went down the BPD rabbit hole" and disappeared. Gone. I will be happier for coming back to him and finding this out even though the TRUTH and having to face the reality of BPD has been the most devastating realization and hardest thing to accept in my life. My sorrow seems endless but my happiness is NOT dependent upon him anymore so I am hopeful that though my sadness may continue for my losses, my happiness will increase because I "let go" of him. 

Just a bit of venting... .  oh and another thing... .  has anyone had this happen... .  

I have had an email, my "cutsy" name (that relates me to him) on an email and I recently created a NEW email account with MY name and he "had an issue" with it. I told him that I have ALWAYS loved "that name" (my original email) but that I needed something more personally ME and more professional for job hunting, etc. He seemed to take offense. I have changed my forum names, etc to minimize "this name" from my world because HE has SUCCEEDED in pushing me out of his life and home... .  and I can no longer "see myself as HIS"... .  I sadly told him so and that is ANOTHER and main reason for creating a new email. He had very little to say but WANTED to dysregulate and I walked out the door when his face started to contort in reply to it... .  He was ready to say something when I looked at him and then decided it would be best to turn and leave... .  he commented "OH, now you leave, I was just going to say"... .  I looked and him and interupted with "Yes, it looked like you had something VERY loving to say to me... .  if you would have seen a response on my face as I see on yours now, you would not want to hear what would come out of my mouth any more than I want to hear what is about to come out of yours... .  I am leaving". And I left. He said nothing about it when I returned. I didn't "take any bait" but "let it go"... .  just like him, the relationship with him and my life with him... .  gone.

[fakename]

@real lady,

do you think they really need mental treatment or a therapist?

is it possible to improve if they just focus on doing the right thing and spend time implementing eckhart tolle readings and meditation and just being in a positive r/s?

[real lady]

@real lady, do you think they really need mental treatment or a therapist?]

Well, I would answer this question with a question... .  do they WANT to be mentally and emotionally healthy or continue living as they are right now? They may NEVER feel that "they need HELP" or mental health counseling. If my uBPDso WANTS me to be happy and live with him, then I THINK THAT HE NEEDS TO BE IN THERAPY... .  NEEDS IT... .  

is it possible to improve if they just focus on doing the right thing and spend time implementing eckhart tolle readings and meditation and just being in a positive r/s?

BPD is a MENTAL and EMOTIONAL DYSREGULATION disorder... .  even the MOST intelligent BPD's can be in massive denial and I will say that FOR THE MAJORITY of severe BPD, they are UNABLE to detach from their feelings to allow their logic to SEE that "if they just could focus on doing right"... .  also, there is an issue that Narcissism is comorbid and therefore will NEVER admit that "they are doing wrong"... .  

Radical acceptance

[fakename]

thanks for writing real lady.

she does want to improve her mental and emotional well being and does want to stop living a life where she just breaks up every week with someone as she says.  but i guess if youre saying that they need to address the symptoms of BPD otherwise they won't get too far, then you're right.  its not just a matter of trying to live a life of doing right, they need to acknowledge their system of logic and understand how it works for and against them?

i think my ex does try to focus on doing right and evidenced in her desire to read stuff like eckhart tolle and other motivational and spiritual things, but am i just being hopeful? i sometimes feel like she grasps it for maybe a couple hours or a day, but then completely neglects what she might have learned.  or maybe she thinks it doesnt apply to her or makes her vulnerable.  i think sometimes when she reads certain things her defense mechanisms are already on and rather than read it with an open-mind, she reads it analyzing how it makes her the victim?

yes, i dont think my ex ever felt she did anything wrong.

[real lady]

its not just a matter of trying to live a life of doing right, they need to acknowledge their system of logic and understand how it works for and against them?

exactly... .  you can read alot more about how they suffer with many of the articles on this forum... .  so helpful.

i think my ex does try to focus on doing right and evidenced in her desire to read stuff like eckhart tolle and other motivational and spiritual things, but am i just being hopeful?

I have known several SEVERELY mentally and/or emotionally ILL persons who were VERY spiritual/religious. It is one way of trying to "focus on being a good person" without really working on themselves... .  ie if "God forgives me, therefore I am OK"... .  denial. big time.

i think sometimes when she reads certain things her defense mechanisms are already on and rather than read it with an open-mind, she reads it analyzing how it makes her the victim?

oh yeah, I can see that... .  I don't have to deal with the "religious" part of it; my uBPDso is agnostic/atheist and he is STILL in denial. Basically a very good but very hurt person with a physiological MENTAL dysfunction that makes relationships nearly impossible.

yes, i dont think my ex ever felt she did anything wrong.

no remorse, lack of empathy and compassion, not being accountable for their behavior in hurting others.

**update** my uBPDso has "tried" the past two days to "talk" by starting to argue, or better said claims that I am "trying to start an argument with him". We have seen each other MORE than 5 hrs/day... .  today it will be only 6 and then I am going to bed. I had to tell him that "I didn't want to talk" about something while we were driving yesterday. He didn't like it but finally STOPPED talking about it without a tirade. amazing.

I still have not finished my resume... .  will do that tomorrow at the library... .  need to be AWAY from the house a while.

[LoveNotWar]

Real Lady, So, I was just scrolling through this post and focused on your post on the loss you have experienced in the last year. You know there is a true grieving process associated with loss right? Denial, anger, depression, acceptance... .  where are you?

You lost a job and along with that financial security and independent identity, your freedom with the loss of your vehicle and income,  your home, your friends and support system, your familiar surroundings and possessions  that gave you comfort and you gave your love and trust to someone who hasn't fulfilled his part of the bargain. WOW, that's a LOT to accept and deal with.

I've got no advice... .  just validating the tough circumstances you will need to overcome to move forward. 

[real lady]

Real Lady, So, I was just scrolling through this post and focused on your post on the loss you have experienced in the last year. You know there is a true grieving process associated with loss right? Denial, anger, depression, acceptance... .  where are you?

With losses, I think that I am at "different" places in the grieving process.

Mom's death and turning 50: acceptance

Dad's death: (compounding with Mom's)... .  still struggle in moments of anger, depression... .  RADICAL acceptance and living with it.

SO with BPD... .  just came out of depression in the past 3 months or so... .  more "despondent" now with any thoughts of him and "us".

You lost a job and along with that financial security and independent identity, your freedom with the loss of your vehicle and income,  your home, your friends and support system, your familiar surroundings and possessions  that gave you comfort and you gave your love and trust to someone who hasn't fulfilled his part of the bargain. WOW, that's a LOT to accept and deal with.

Resigning from my work and  willingly giving it all up to be with him was NOT the hardest UNTIL he started showing BPD signs... .  then I cried that I had "made the mistake of my life" and put myself and my son through unnecessary pain and grief. But I NEEDED TO KNOW about our relationship and in ways, I will never "be sorry" for returning to him... .  I will just be much happier and have the NEXT part of my journey when we leave.

I've got no advice... .  just validating the tough circumstances you will need to overcome to move forward.  

  thank you LNW   I appreciate it.

It has been QUITE exhausting and "getting on my feet" requires more than "lifting myself up"... .  finances, health, son's needs, SO's health, puppies, etc... .  MORE responsibilities that "tie me down" and I cannot let them. The LEAST priority always get dropped... .  getting mail, fixing certain meals when he can put something into the microwave, etc. I TAKE MORE TIME for me and I go upstairs to watch TV so son and SO talk about his "game" while he plays. SO dysfunctional, barely existing and he doesn't seem to care... .  THIS is his life and as far as "he sees it", he "has it made" except for when "I am at fault" for upsetting him... .  I do feel STUCK, like a slave, like a person who was taken prisoner. I constantly struggle with my thoughts "thinking" that I am "with him" and caring for him as I had always wanted. I don't work and can take care of my son and two precious dogs and other pets. What REALLY bothers me and leans toward the "prisoner" feeling is that he has NOT been cooperative to assist me or allowing me to redecorate to make some room for ME... .  I would like a desk in another room. I would like a beading station for my jewelry making (THAT was a GREAT loss when I relocated. I had a AWESOME "work bench"

Going to talk to my counselor; look up some jobs and get on the move with getting a job soon.