My leaving plan... getting started.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Briefly for those who don't know my story; this was a tragic "true love" story with my FIRST love (then and now BPD to the max). We were together and broke up, recycled and then I would not have any contact with him, though he stalked me for 2 years before I married another man... .  we both married and divorced twice and during my second divorce I contacted him, resigned from my full time job, left a beautiful townhouse apartment and gave away most of my furniture to relocate to "be with him".

OK... .  it has been since March 2011... .  it was nearly November when I realized that "he was not right" and by Jan. 2012, I found bpdfamily.com... .  I really thought that we would "make it" and tried counseling and he continued to jump back down into the rabbit hole... .  unreachable.

This past August, he told me to "get the F out of his home"... .  we are not married, I have NOTHING in my name and he promised me marriage, to CARE for me and my son and to PROVIDE for us.

The dreams are shattered. The promises have ALL been broken. I am rebuilding my life and moving OUT.

My LEAVING PLAN:

To get my resume together, apply for jobs and get employment. Create savings and purchase a car. All the while, he will allow me to use his car and takes care of all HIS bills plus gas for the car and groceries. I cook, clean, take care of pets, etc.

We are having a TALK today.

I will NOT allow him to dysregulate, this is NO LONGER PERSONAL to me, this is a business arrangement and he PROMISED that he "would help me" move out. SO... .  I mentioned to him that "in order to do what he wants" (me to get the F out of his home), I NEED his assistance. He plays video games 12 hrs/day... .  has not worked outside the home for almost a YEAR. Has NO income, just savings that is paying for his needs (and wants like NEW computer, large screen tv, iPad, speakers, headset, games, etc... .  )

In this "TALK"... .  I am going to ask him to commit to keeping his promise to help me move out and keep at least ONE promise of helping in some house renovation so I can have my own bedroom. (I need my own space)

HAS ANYONE HERE had "the talk" about moving out WHILE living with pwBPD and can you advise me of what words and strategy you used as well as issues you avoided to accomplish a successful "talk"... .

A few thoughts include:

I will not tell him ALL, only what is truly needed AT THE TIME. I will NOT talk about BPD or his behavior or "us". I have already told him that "we have no relationship" and "there is no reason why we can't be nice to each other" and I hope to reinforce these ideas... .  

Wish me luck. (I have nothing to lose; I have already lost it all... .  I am hoping that he will be reasonable as he did not threaten to send me to a "shelter" this past dysregulation and "knows" that we are leaving (son and I) so I am "going on with my plans"... .  )

[real lady]

Briefly for those who don't know my story; this was a tragic "true love" story with my FIRST love (then and now BPD to the max). We were together and broke up, recycled and then I would not have any contact with him, though he stalked me for 2 years before I married another man... .  we both married and divorced twice and during my second divorce I contacted him, resigned from my full time job, left a beautiful townhouse apartment and gave away most of my furniture to relocate to "be with him".

OK... .  it has been since March 2011... .  it was nearly November when I realized that "he was not right" and by Jan. 2012, I found bpdfamily.com... .  I really thought that we would "make it" and tried counseling and he continued to jump back down into the rabbit hole... .  unreachable.

This past August, he told me to "get the F out of his home"... .  we are not married, I have NOTHING in my name and he promised me marriage, to CARE for me and my son and to PROVIDE for us.

The dreams are shattered. The promises have ALL been broken. I am rebuilding my life and moving OUT.

My LEAVING PLAN:

To get my resume together, apply for jobs and get employment. Create savings and purchase a car. All the while, he will allow me to use his car and takes care of all HIS bills plus gas for the car and groceries. I cook, clean, take care of pets, etc.

We are having a TALK today.

I will NOT allow him to dysregulate, this is NO LONGER PERSONAL to me, this is a business arrangement and he PROMISED that he "would help me" move out. SO... .  I mentioned to him that "in order to do what he wants" (me to get the F out of his home), I NEED his assistance. He plays video games 12 hrs/day... .  has not worked outside the home for almost a YEAR. Has NO income, just savings that is paying for his needs (and wants like NEW computer, large screen tv, iPad, speakers, headset, games, etc... .  )

In this "TALK"... .  I am going to ask him to commit to keeping his promise to help me move out and keep at least ONE promise of helping in some house renovation so I can have my own bedroom. (I need my own space)

HAS ANYONE HERE had "the talk" about moving out WHILE living with pwBPD and can you advise me of what words and strategy you used as well as issues you avoided to accomplish a successful "talk"... .

A few thoughts include:

I will not tell him ALL, only what is truly needed AT THE TIME. I will NOT talk about BPD or his behavior or "us". I have already told him that "we have no relationship" and "there is no reason why we can't be nice to each other" and I hope to reinforce these ideas... .  

Wish me luck. (I have nothing to lose; I have already lost it all... .  I am hoping that he will be reasonable as he did not threaten to send me to a "shelter" this past dysregulation and "knows" that we are leaving (son and I) so I am "going on with my plans"... .  )

[Rose Tiger]

I found the best way to converse with ex during that time was to leave my emotions totally out of it.  It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he doesn't have the skills to care.  Once you can get that down, it becomes easier.  Save those emotions for here and with safe people like a therapist.

I'd gear it towards what he wants, he would like you and your son to leave, you will need some assistance to do that and lay out your plan.

1.  Your own space

2.  Use of the car

3.  You will help with cooking and cleaning

4.  ?

Then ask if he is agreeable to those terms or if there are any issues that he would like to bring up.  Don't let the pokes pull you into a drama, keep your cool and say you'll consider it.  Hey Real Lady, jump off a cliff and learn how to fly, respond with no emotion and say, let me think about it.  Keep the conversation short and sweet.

Read this over a couple of times... .  

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

[real lady]

I found the best way to converse with ex during that time was to leave my emotions totally out of it.

I am totally "there"... .  very business like and asking "what do you want"... .  and letting him know what I can and the few things that I am willing to do and NO MORE... .  better to say affirmative and NOT give them any "I won't do this" or "YOU WILL do this" statements. VERY mutual and respectful... .  I agree.

It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he doesn't have the skills to care. Once you can get that down, it becomes easier.  Save those emotions for here and with safe people like a therapist.

I feel sorry for him but they are his responsibility.

I'd gear it towards what he wants, he would like you and your son to leave, you will need some assistance to do that and lay out your plan.Don't let the pokes pull you into a drama, keep your cool and say you'll consider it. 

exactly.


Read this over a couple of times... .  

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

Thanks... .  I am doing that NOW... .  

[almost789]

Good Luck Real Lady! Build your future for YOU! So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

[real lady]

Good Luck Real Lady. Build your future for YOU. So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

Thanks ((SummerT321)) I plan on rebuilding my life and it will be BETTER than it was before I reunited with my "once first love who is BPD" At least I now KNOW what kind of love it was... .  a BPD "love"... .  maybe this was what I really needed to "get over him" since AGAIN, I cannot "have him"... .  I will be OK... .  I have had nearly two years of being a stay at home mom and working outside the home, running my own home, though wonderful will be taxing at first... .  

I so want to have an HEALTHY relationship one day and though I am NOT interested in any thing SOON, I do plan on dating after about a year away from him... .  who knows... .  I may find a wonderful man who lived through a BPD marriage and is looking for me.

[Rose Tiger]

I love your spunk!  You go Girl!  I'm sure you'll find a nice sweetie, just make sure he is working on his stuff like we all are doing. 

[real lady]

  thanks

After ALL this time, I am JUST starting to see, I believe, WHAT an HEALTHY relationship/love "is" really like. It is more like my FIRST marriage... .  he was not a bad man, not a hard worker but not mentally ill or outright "against" me in any way... .  he came to both my mother and father's funerals with his mother. I had thought that relationship was 'too much like friends' after having my FIRST love (passionate BPD relationship) and I WANT MORE than that now but see that going too far in the opposite direction (going back to uBPDso) was too far.

I am finding balance and enjoying BEING ME... .  I have so much to give and so much to DO in my life. I actually have a VERY HOPEFUL and POSITIVE outlook.

I just feel sorry for my soon to be ex uBPDso... .  I had loved him so much. So sad that he will not accept his illness and receive my love for him. I have withdrawn and I will leave with "I need space" and it will echo the boundaries that I put up years ago to him... .  

I will be the problem (in his mind) for our failing relationship... .  and I will leave without wanting to tell him differently... .  sadly bittersweet. I love him so much that though I cannot live with him, I will leave as the "bad guy" so he can go on in his delusion... .  

I have already told him "When I leave, I will NOT return to you and will have NO contact with you"... .  this is SET IN STONE as I KNOW that NOTHING good would come of any communication with him... .  if he sends an email or text asking how we are, I will respond ":)oing fine, hope you are well".

My sadness in this comes from not being able to live, love and care for the two most wonderful English Mastiffs on the Planet. We got the first puppy for him and my girl puppy for me but I won't be able to take her with me and wouldn't take her away from the boy puppy... .  this will HURT... .  it is THE most painful thing about leaving... .  

[TheDude]

real lady - Ugh... .  I had to leave our English Mastiff behind, too. Sometimes I do believe I miss her more than my ex... .  

[real lady]

real lady - Ugh... .  I had to leave our English Mastiff behind, too. Sometimes I do believe I miss her more than my ex... .  

 I am so sorry to hear that... .   I hope that she is doing well. Do you see her at all? Have visitation? I am thinking about that for our two... .  

My girl is a 10m old reverse (fawn) brindle with one HUGE underbite... .  such a beauty AND little "stinker" at the same time, my girl but I won't be able to take her and I KNOW that I WILL miss them SO MUCH MORE than I will my soon to be exBPDso... .  

I love my puppies and they love "their momma"... .  uBPDso is going to have a "LOT OF 'XPLAININ" to do to them when we leave... .  I am concerned for them... .  they won't have me to care for them... .  

[TheDude]

No - no 'visitation'. I'm enforcing as much separation and detachment as possible for myself in order to get my head together. I'll see her at least once more, when I return to the house to get the last of my things. She's a 10 year old fawn - goofy as can be. She had thousands of dollars in surgery last year to remove several cysts. She looked like Frankendog when we got her home. She recovered 100%. Yet, because of her age, it's likely I may not see her again. This was the case with our other dog - a golden who had to be put down during one of our "off" periods.  :'(

3 of the 4 times I've been 'ejected' from my own life, the Mastiff knew exactly what was going on. She would lean against me with all her weight, refusing to let me move as I was minutes from walking out the door. Sigh. Anyway, good on you for having a plan and moving forward. Better things to come... .  

[real lady]

Yet, because of her age, it's likely I may not see her again. This was the case with our other dog - a golden who had to be put down during one of our "off" periods. 

Having pets with a pwBPD is so hard... .  I am so sorry about your loss and anticipated loss... .  

3 of the 4 times I've been 'ejected' from my own life, the Mastiff knew exactly what was going on. She would lean against me with all her weight, refusing to let me move as I was minutes from walking out the door.

I really believe that our boy, almost 17m and 160 lbs KNOWS that I have "detached" and CLINGS to me... .  I am calling him "momma's boy" and I have to be careful that uBPDso doesn't get jealous about it but he has our girl puppy (10 m soon) sleeping in bed with him when I get out of bed in the morning.   

Did you feel that your expwBPD gave more love and attention to the dogs than to you? I LOVE my puppies but it is NOT healthy to substitute love for a person for a dog's loyal affection... .  he seems to be happy with it though.

Sigh. Anyway, good on you for having a plan and moving forward. Better things to come... .  

I think having the puppies makes it SO MUCH HARDER for me to deal with leaving but it does not stop me... .  matter of fact, BECAUSE of them, I think that my pwBPD is taking advantage of me being here to care for them and NOT giving any thought to me NO LONGER BEING HERE to care for them. He tries to use GUILT on me and it just does not work. I do not feel responsible for what HE DOES NOT DO for his pets and when my son and I leave... .  I WILL MISS THEM terribly but I will feel NO obligation to him at all. It is hard to break free sometimes and we can lose alot along the way but sometimes it is the ONLY way.

[Clearmind]

real lady, have you set a moving date?

[Mind]

Good Luck Real Lady! Build your future for YOU! So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

This is great!  Exactly my thoughts as well!   

[mitti]

Good Luck Real Lady! Build your future for YOU! So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

This is great!  Exactly my thoughts as well!   

Mine too 

Good luck! I have no advice to give because I think the advice already given here is excellent, but I wish you all the best. And when you finally leave, the worst will be behind you, it may already be.

[real lady]

real lady, have you set a moving date?

I think that aiming for my son's summer break, when he will be with his father, when I HOPE to have a job and car and insurance and be able to find a place for us to live near his school ... .  I would LOVE to move out tomorrow, if I could. No time will be TOO soon. The latest is August, IF I can get the resources for it... .  

Good Luck Real Lady. Build your future for YOU. So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.This is great.  Exactly my thoughts as well.   

Sparkle13, thanks hon... .  my NEXT love will be ONE VERY LUCKY MAN... .  hope he is ready for a REAL LADY... .  ... .  

Mine too  Good luck. I have no advice to give because I think the advice already given here is excellent, but I wish you all the best. And when you finally leave, the worst will be behind you, it may already be.

Thanks ((mitti)), we ALL KNOW that the WORSE WILL be behind us once we do not have to have any contact with our pwBPD... .  

I have really emotionally detached and keep reading that us nons, should communicate as "unemotional and BORING" as possible with them and I have found this to BE SO HELPFUL while I am still living with him.

He doesn't want (to work on himself and) a relationship with me but he tells me news from his computer, laughs at things and shares them with me, WANTS to tell me ALL ABOUT his "gaming" (12 hrs/day) and to ALL OF IT, I say "Uh-huh"... .  and if he DARE say to me "WELL< YOU DON'T SOUND INTERESTED IN WHAT I AM SAYING? I would have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "REALLY, WHAT give you THAT idea?" or "NO Sh*T Sherlock. (that gives away my age.) in the snarkiest tone possible... .  instead I think I would respond more safely with a pointed FLAT TONE "hmmmm, really?"... .  (LOL... .  just as good but less snarky; just PROVES the point instead)

I am just very thankful that I did NOT marry him THOUGH I feel that he OWES ME so much that I do "not have right to have"... .  NEVER AGAIN.

[TheDude]

Did you feel that your expwBPD gave more love and attention to the dogs than to you? I LOVE my puppies but it is NOT healthy to substitute love for a person for a dog's loyal affection... .  he seems to be happy with it though.

No, not really. In fact, when she was in pushing me away mode (or the death spiral, as I call it), they became MY solace... .  MY only reciprocated emotional outlet. No, for her the love and attention shifts to whatever internet misfit du jour gives her the desperate and victimized attention she craves. To be fair, she doesn't neglect any of the many various critters in the house, but she doesn't seem to give any special attention or attachment to them out of the ordinary. Actually, part of our 'life plan' was to eventually operate a rescue/breeding/training center for German Shepherds. So much for that plan.

[atcrossroads]

Real lady,

It sounds like you really thought things through.  I left stealthily though I was not being physically abused.  The last fight we had was scary with lots of screaming about how I was trying to kill him and how he planned to buy a big gun to protect himself from me.  Also, lots of his typical "I hate myself, my life, the world sucks, and I need to end it all, but I won't kill myself b/c I promised my mom I would not commit suicide while she is still alive."  

All of this was deeply disturbing, even frightening to me.  I have been detaching for a long time, and we have been separated in same house 4 months.

So, again, I left stealthily and we didn't have "the leaving talk." https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193737.0

I feel relieved to be out, but the today and yesterday I began to feel some guilt over how I left and took pet while he was at work.  I did it that way to avoid a huge final rage and also was scared he would prevent me from taking the cat.  I have been painted very black, so I didn't expect any "talk" to go over well, but still I'm feeling guilty that I should've given him the courtesy of "the talk" and letting him know the day I was leaving.  I don't know... .  

I wish I had wisdom for you, but I'm wrestling now with how I left.  I wish you success and peace.  When do you plan to leave?  And how do you think he'll react?  Is he a rager?

[Clearmind]

If you are planning to not leave until August its still important to use some of the tools here to reduce the drama. It is sounding kinda drama filled at the moment.

He doesn't want (to work on himself and) a relationship with me but he tells me news from his computer, laughs at things and shares them with me, WANTS to tell me ALL ABOUT his "gaming" (12 hrs/day) and to ALL OF IT, I say "Uh-huh"... .  and if he DARE say to me "WELL< YOU DON'T SOUND INTERESTED IN WHAT I AM SAYING? I would have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "REALLY, WHAT give you THAT idea?" or "NO Sh*T Sherlock! (that gives away my age!) in the snarkiest tone possible... .  instead I think I would respond more safely with a pointed FLAT TONE "hmmmm, really?"... .  (LOL... .  just as good but less snarky; just PROVES the point instead)

I am just very thankful that I did NOT marry him THOUGH I feel that he OWES ME so much that I do "not have right to have"... .  NEVER AGAIN.

What actions are you taking to detach from this drama that's ensuing?

[real lady]

No, not really. In fact, when she was in pushing me away mode (or the death spiral, as I call it), they became MY solace... .  MY only reciprocated emotional outlet.

Me too... .  my puppies love me and I really HATE IT that I love them so much and will have to leave them... .  I don't think that they will be happy about it at all. Our older boy whines when I go to bed at 9 p.m... .  sometimes in the middle of the night (for me, I think) and then is SO happy to see me in the morning... .  I don't see them as much now but care for them alot.

Actually, part of our 'life plan' was to eventually operate a rescue/breeding/training center for German Shepherds. So much for that plan.

my pwBPD went to college for Veterinary medicine; a real ":)r. Doolittle" of sorts... .  very good with animals, SUCKS with people.

[real lady]

Real lady,

It sounds like you really thought things through.  I left stealthily though I was not being physically abused.  The last fight we had was scary with lots of screaming about how I was trying to kill him and how he planned to buy a big gun to protect himself from me.  

Sounds to me that he threatened you with physical assault with that... .  I would have left too... .  

Also, lots of his typical "I hate myself, my life, the world sucks, and I need to end it all, but I won't kill myself b/c I promised my mom I would not commit suicide while she is still alive."  

I understand, my pwBPD also "made a promise" to his first wife and says "he is sorry that he did" and would rather that he had died instead of us reuniting... .  so sweet...

All of this was deeply disturbing, even frightening to me.  I have been detaching for a long time, and we have been separated in same house 4 months.

Glad you are out; emotionally detaching is just a given in that kind of chaotic, emotionally draining BPD situation... .  I have REALLY been detached for several months; in the past two, I have felt more energized and empowered to leave... .  it must be time.

I feel relieved to be out, but the today and yesterday I began to feel some guilt over how I left and took pet while he was at work.

 Good for the pet, you did the right thing... .  

I have been painted very black, so I didn't expect any "talk" to go over well, but still I'm feeling guilty that I should've given him the courtesy of "the talk" and letting him know the day I was leaving.  I don't know...

. I feel the SAME WAY and don't think that any "talk" would have been received and come to any good for you at all. What he understands or is willing to learn about HIS FAILURE TO KEEP A RELATIONSHIP is not our responsibility. We can only "teach", we can't make them LEARN.

I wish I had wisdom for you, but I'm wrestling now with how I left.  I wish you success and peace.  When do you plan to leave?  And how do you think he'll react?  Is he a rager?

Try not to wrestle with what you cannot control... .  he has "made his bed" per se... .  you cannot change his bad decisions and BPD behavior can you? I know that I cannot change my pwBPD's behavior... .  before I learned RADICAL ACCEPTANCE (DBT term from Marsha Linehan) I tried and failed and he dysregulated and I was more miserable. I learned to GIVE IT UP... .  I hope that I CAN be ready by summer vacation when my son is at his fathers OR I can work EXTRA HOURS while my son is gone and we will move when he gets back. He has been WANTING me to "get the F out of his house"... .  I will look confused and NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION to any negative or obstructing statements... .  I will call the police and have them "escort me out" if necessary.  Yes, he rages. He will feel badly abandoned and I will have NO response to it. He has made his decision, I have made mine... .  it is over and I am "on my way OUT".   He is a LOSER... .  

[real lady]

Update: the uBPDso, I prefer to call him pwBPD as he is no longer a "so" or significant "other" to me. I care for him, his pets and household and have NO relationship with him.I have been sitting and hugging and kissing and crying over the puppies saying "I love you so much and I wish I didn't, it hurts"... .  pwBPD asked "why do you say that?" I responded, "I am not allowed to watch them grow up and love them or be with them, it hurts too much to love them"... .  he said "they will be miserable when/if (don't know which word he used) leave"... .  and I said "I know but I have nothing to do with it, it is not up to me".

He has been gaming 12 hrs /day for the past 3 months at least. When I leave he will not have the "luxury" of that but I have not mentioned that. He will have to shop, cook, clean and do his own laundry plus take care of all of the animals. This is HIS CHOICE. I feel NO guilt or responsibility to stay for the animals though my girl puppy was bought FOR me, I cannot and wouldn't take her away from her "boy".

There is NOTHING that he could say or do short of him being put into the hospital or being critically ill that would "keep" me here. And if I would choose to take care of the pets and him and not move out right away, it would ONLY be with the WRITTEN AGREEMENT that he would provide for my son and I "if" anything should happen to him (name on deed on house, joint account, savings, etc)... .  ONLY then.

I WORK NEARLY EVERY MOMENT to NOT THINK of the loss of love, my broken heart, my sadness, my having to go back to work, begin ANOTHER household (MOVE) so I am taking ONE DAY AT A TIME and focusing on LEAVING and breaking free from the BPD craziness, I am done... .  

Working on resume today... .  got an interview with a local newspaper to discuss the importance of MENTAL HEALTH awareness and the help that is available to those who do not have resources to pay for counseling. I hope to BREAK THE STIGMA of MENTAL HEALTH ILLNESS AND TREATMENT with this... .  just a brick in the wall, I know.

I am no longer giving MORE of myself, my time or my love to this man... .  I have given him everything and he has broken nearly every promise to me due to HIS MENTAL ILL NESS.  He has "it made" right now... .  he is losing it all because HE WILL NOT SEEK MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT. I am taking care of myself and my son and we will move out and MOVE ON... .  and I will NOT look back.

[Rose Tiger]

Real Lady    I love your success towards interviewing for a newspaper to help with mental health awareness, such an important topic now a days.

"I know but I have nothing to do with it, it is not up to me".

I am not allowed to watch them grow up and love them or be with them, it hurts too much to love them

This doesn't sound like a sustainable situation. What are you wishing to hear from him?  Regret or an apology, guilt?  I know it's a kick in the craw what he promised and what he reneged on.  If you choose to stay to build up some savings, you've got to play it close to the vest or find other digs.  I only say this because your safety is priority one.

[real lady]

"I know but I have nothing to do with it, it is not up to me".

I am not allowed to watch them grow up and love them or be with them, it hurts too much to love them

This doesn't sound like a sustainable situation. What are you wishing to hear from him?  Regret or an apology, guilt?  I know it's a kick in the craw what he promised and what he reneged on.  If you choose to stay to build up some savings, you've got to play it close to the vest or find other digs.  I only say this because your safety is priority one.

                      

Hi Rose Tiger... .  actually I was venting a bit but revealing how I truly feel; sorrow at potential loss of MY puppies, etc... .  they were not meant to be "digs" as much as maybe just a "provoking to thought" of what HE has done and how powerless I feel in it all and that I am "doing what HE wants" by leaving... .  it was and is not my first choice. IF he has truly decided to GIVE UP on our relationship, there is NOTHING that I want to hear... .  I just want him (and me too) to be happy. I told him so.

UPDATE: We talked for over 5 hours straight last night. He kept on saying "You are wanting to leave" and with each one, I gently reminded him, that it WAS NOT MY IDEA and I would prefer to NOT have to but only am planning it because he told me to "get the F out". Leaving the ball in his court. Clarifying that I am only doing what he wants (so he should be more careful in "what he wants" from me)... .  holding him responsible just a little bit for his part of the relationship. I cannot carry it, cannot cure it and we cannot go on like this and I have shown him that I am tired, frustrated and if he gives up, I give up too. This may not be what a pwBPD wants to hear but this is how I have chosen to speak with this, at this time.

All in all, he suggested two (little, petty but 95% of OUR problem WITH ME) things that I "do" (how I communicate) and how he dysregulates over it as being our problem... .  so I was asking him "I don't understand how this can be a deal breaker, I hear your pain and frustration and I hear you saying that if I did not do these (little) things that we could have a MUCH better relationship?", he said "yes"...

I asked him if I could make a suggestion for what I thought was needed in order to "make this change in my communication style"... .  "We need to go to speak with a qualified, professional counselor". HE AGREED that he would go for "couples counseling" but would NOT go for individual counseling because he "did not need it". He didn't NEED to "go to a shrink". With his intellect AND BPD I can see why he would NOT want to go... .  

So I will be looking into "couples counseling" and "just go" and see what happens, if he just wants to "sit and bash me" I will tell him that IF THIS IS COUPLES COUNSELING, I would like to stay and participate but if it is going to be "we are here to straighten her out" then I would like to leave the room and let you go into great detail about me and then I would like to be interviewed as well, alone AND THEN we can come together and actually HAVE couples counseling.

I don't know what to think about it; I am neither hopeful or really happy about it. I am thankful that at least there will be another person who will validate him and me and maybe help US find ways to communicate without putting ALL the responsibility and blame on me. I am glad in ways that he "cares enough" about our relationship to give this a try... .  it is a big step for him.

Yes, the interview is an awesome opportunity and I hope to have a few "soundbites" that I hope that she will QUOTE and use in the article. I like "we should take care of the gray matter between our ears AT LEAST as well as we care for our cars, computers and bodies... .  it is the ONE THING in our lives that does ALL the work and it deserves maintenance".

[Rose Tiger]

Sorry, RL, I meant digs as in another place to stay.  English really is my first language, although it doesn't sound like it sometimes. 

Couples counselling with a disordered person is ... .  well, it's interesting.  I'm trying to think of some benefits that I saw when ex and I took that on for awhile.  It gave ex a platform to tell the story of him.  He and the male counselor talked about all sorts of guy subjects, that had nothing to do with 'us' or our r/s.  It started out with the usual whine sessions of why I am horrible.  By this point, I'd validate and then say I have no intention of giving up my likes, it took me two years of counselling to recover bits of myself and I'm not stripping off pieces of me anymore, sorry.  The counselor may have seen that as not cooperating/compromising.  Do not care,  the jump through hoops never stopped with ex, there was no pleasing him so giving up music I like, tv I like, clothes I like, books I like, it was not going to happen AGAIN.  It took me two years to recover from giving up this, that, and the other, until I was as empty a shell as he was.  So if you can handle having 'the list' come out, and he will make it sound pretty bad, if you can keep strong and not get pulled into the drama.  It's not easy.  Your guy is not willing to look at his stuff.  He is not willing/capable to do so.  The benefit overall gave me further insight into the brokeness of my husband and further validation that I needed to detach.  That was the benefit.

The communication advice on the staying board is stellar.  That will help you keep it together while you contine to make plans.  That education helped me to learn how to calmly communicate with ex with no abuse.  How to keep the peace.  That is worth it's weight in gold.

[real lady]

Sorry, RL, I meant digs as in another place to stay.  English really is my first language, although it doesn't sound like it sometimes. 

    no problem... .  thanks for clearing that up. 

Couples counselling with a disordered person is ... .  well, it's interesting. 

I hear you. I really do not want to go to counseling WITH him... .  so I didn't show "enthusiasm" in it because it was a suggestion that I made that HE has to commit to... .  he verbally did not show commitment other than to say "call her". If he thinks that it will be a "this is all her fault and this is what SHE does and what SHE needs to change", I will clearly state that he needs to talk to the counselor ALONE because I have heard it all and am not willing to sit through it in counseling again. I will then offer to have time alone with the counselor to "share how I feel" if the door of opportunity opens.

I'm trying to think of some benefits that I saw when ex and I took that on for awhile.  It gave ex a platform to tell the story of him.  He and the male counselor talked about all sorts of guy subjects, that had nothing to do with 'us' or our r/s.  It started out with the usual whine sessions of why I am horrible. 

I expect this as well... .  I hope that they can "bond" a bit and he will trust the counselor... .  even "against me" in a triangulation (read definition) just so he will open up and talk.

So if you can handle having 'the list' come out, and he will make it sound pretty bad, if you can keep strong and not get pulled into the drama.  It's not easy. 

I have already told uBPDso that I am "detached" and don't "care" about some of this drama... .  without a counselor I won't even talk about it... .  I would really like to take a book and DETACH (when I am NOT in the conversation) to show that unless REAL progress to communicate goes on, I am NOT interested... .  and that I am detached and he will "have to work hard" to "win my heart back"... .  he told me that the "ball is in my court"... .  I said, "I'm not playing anymore"... .  "If you want to play, you have to find me".

That education helped me to learn how to calmly communicate with ex with no abuse.  How to keep the peace. 

That is what I am happy to find in the past few months... .  LOWER stress... .  he even said that after 5 hrs of talking that the "puppies felt that the stress lowered in the house". Our older puppy is CLINGING to me and whines (talks) to me all the time... .  he knows that I have "detached" and doesn't like it... .  after we talked for 5 hours, HE seems to be "more gentle in his speech to me"... .  I am remaining cool and detached, showing NO sign of "weakness" or "change of mind"... .  I have NO new information to consider therefore I am standing and will stand in the "detach, ready to leave now" position. He has said that the "puppies will miss you terribly"... .  I said "is that all? I have cooked, cleaned, shopped, taken care of puppies AND you and ONLY the puppies will miss us... .  I see".

[Rose Tiger]

Hey RL, detaching means to keep your personal feelings to yourself.  It's validating his thoughts and then keeping your feelings reserved.

This is not an example of detachment.

said "is that all? I have cooked, cleaned, shopped, taken care of puppies AND you and ONLY the puppies will miss us... .  I see".

He has said that the "puppies will miss you terribly"... .  

This would be an example:  "Really, do you think so?  You might be right on that."

Do you see the difference?

[Rose Tiger]

Oh and in therapy.  Ex would say, I didn't like when she was upset over her stepfather dying, she was crying and couldn't sleep.  I'd say, It's true, I was upset, I was crying and couldn't sleep and that bothered you.

Validate but that was it.

Ex would say, I don't like when she does such and such.  Me, I understand that you don't like it when I did such and such.  Period, end of statement.  In my thoughts, it was a different story.  My thoughts were, that is too bad, that is me and if you don't like it tough.  Also had to keep those thoughts from showing on my face.   

[Changed4safety]

Begin by finding a therapist who has experience with BPD.  It makes a huge difference. 

I can't say that it helped, I spent thousands in couples therapy while the ex was lying to both our faces about his cheating and his willingness to work on things.  Well, okay, it helped me, LOL, but eventually ex didn't want to go to her any more because he felt she was taking my side. ><  "I always feel like the villain!  She's responsible for her end of it!"  Um, I'm not the one cheating, lying, punching walls, strangling my partner, asking for money for my expensive hobbies, playing videogames all day, refusing to help around the house and get a job... .  

I have moved after the breakup and found a therapist who specializes in BPD and have made great strides personally.  Interestingly enough, my ex has done much better without me than with me--He terrorized me into doing what he wanted, but what he wanted was not good for him.  So in my efforts to "help" all I accomplished was losing four and a half years of my life in mid-age, losing a sickening amount of money it will take me years to get back, crippled my credit, and got myself traumatized. 

I also paid for him to see a therapist on his own.  The T was wise enough to be able to be a safe place for the ex, but not get conned by him, and that turned out to be very healing for ex. 

[real lady]

Hey RL, detaching means to keep your personal feelings to yourself.  It's validating his thoughts and then keeping your feelings reserved.This is not an example of detachment.

said "is that all? I have cooked, cleaned, shopped, taken care of puppies AND you and ONLY the puppies will miss us... .  I see".

I see, thanks RT   I forgot that I was reacting to an inance statement by a pwBPD for a moment then. I guess I am just tired and would like SOME validation myself, I realize that it will not likely come from him. sad.

He has said that the "puppies will miss you terribly"... .  

This would be an example:  "Really, do you think so?  You might be right on that.":)o you see the difference?

Yes, I do... thanks again. To one time that he said this, I replied "Yes, I believe that... .  you are right, they love me very much". 

Oh and in therapy.  Ex would say, I didn't like when she was upset over her stepfather dying, she was crying and couldn't sleep.  I'd say, It's true, I was upset, I was crying and couldn't sleep and that bothered you.

Same thing was said to me by pwBPD for both mom and dad's passing... .  I apologized and THANKED him for comforting me as he had and left out how he "dogged" me about "getting over it". I understand that his mother died quickly and was not told until AFTER she was in hospital, sick and then dying and did not get to see her after she had only gone into surgery for a minor elective surgery and did not recover. He is not close to his dad and doesn't KNOW the love of a parent as I have. 

Ex would say, I don't like when she does such and such.

  I would just reply "I understand, there are things that I dislike about myself at times too... .  sometimes I just have to VENT, grieve like with my parent's passing, it is a unfamiliar path to me".

Me, I understand that you don't like it when I did such and such.  Period, end of statement.  In my thoughts, it was a different story.  My thoughts were, that is too bad, that is me and if you don't like it tough.  Also had to keep those thoughts from showing on my face.   

Thanks again... .  am reading, thinking and WILL work on this... .  this will help much more than just "shutting up"... .   No explanation, almost JUST a repeat that he said such and such... .  nothing more. I get it... .  

[real lady]

Begin by finding a therapist who has experience with BPD.  It makes a huge difference. 

The counselor I currently have has studied it and seems to confirm what I have been doing, what I have been learning and how I respond to him. It would be IDEAL to have a qualified DBT counselor, I have asked for one for couples' counseling (he is calling it this, I am just going along and setting boundaries for myself and letting him "try" it with some hope but no real expectation overall)

I can't say that it helped, I spent thousands in couples therapy while the ex was lying to both our faces about his cheating and his willingness to work on things. 

I expect the same but no cheating on either of our parts so it is NOT anything serious at all... .  I am a little bit afraid that the counselor will be holding back chuckles of absurdity when he/she hears his "complaints" about me... .  

Well, okay, it helped me, LOL, but eventually ex didn't want to go to her any more because he felt she was taking my side. ><  "I always feel like the villain.  She's responsible for her end of it."  Um, I'm not the one cheating, lying, punching walls, strangling my partner, asking for money for my expensive hobbies, playing videogames all day, refusing to help around the house and get a job... .  so

I expect the same... .  exactly.

I have moved after the breakup and found a therapist who specializes in BPD and have made great strides personally. 

    That's wonderful.

Interestingly enough, my ex has done much better without me than with me--He terrorized me into doing what he wanted, but what he wanted was not good for him.  So in my efforts to "help" all I accomplished was losing four and a half years of my life in mid-age, losing a sickening amount of money it will take me years to get back, crippled my credit, and got myself traumatized.

  I am sorry for your loss, I and others here have lost so much... .  getting out of a relationship with a pwBPD is OURSELVES may be our only reward. I have myself and that is ENOUGH for me if I don't have to live like this the rest of my life.

I also paid for him to see a therapist on his own.  The T was wise enough to be able to be a safe place for the ex, but not get conned by him, and that turned out to be very healing for ex. 

I am VERY glad to hear that... .  a very rare but possible success story... .  thanks for sharing.