Ultimatums? Odd symptoms?

[Setter Rob]

Given that my SO has never been told she has BPD, although her infrequent therapist knows this and is looking for an opportunity to confront her with it, how do I draw a line in the sand? What I mean is, after thirty years of marriage and with the problem only getting worse, what do I say to my dear and very insecure wife to let her know that most of the problem is not me but her? I am thinking of saying, "What do you think I could be getting out of this relationship, suffocated as I am by all your criticism and attacks."

What have you folks said to your SO to let him or her know you have reached your absolute limit?

Also, have any of you experienced incessant talking as a symptom? When she is in a good mood she doesn't shut up, telling me everything that comes into her head, every little move she is going to make around the house or in the garden, asking me questions the answer to which is right in front of her nose, asking me if I need a cup of coffee, tea, everything under the sun. It has gotten so that I dread the good moods almost as much as the bad--both command my entire attention--and these pecadillos shove me away as much as criticism.

Also, and finally, have any of you experienced sleeplessness as a symptom in you BPSO?

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[hithere]

my ex BPD also had ADHD and she would exhibit some of those behaviors.

As far as boundaries, I am sure you have set many over the past 30 years?  Did she (and you) cross them all?

I made a list of deal-breakers and discussed them with her.

[Setter Rob]

Hi hithere,

I have tried discussing some boundaries with her, to no avail. Everything is always my problem. Even when I'm talking to her about my feelings, I will be accused of attacking her. She is allowed to set rules, whereas I can only ask for an agreement that might be broken if she hasn't slept well (i.e.,every night). Over the years I have been too flexible and adaptable, but on the other hand, while she has from the beginning exhibited all but the worst symptoms of BPD, it has never been to the intolerable degree of the last few years. This sudden increase that is atypical of BPD I can only attribute to hormonal changes (she's 52), neurological changes (she has epilepsy), my retirement, and our moving back to where she grew up (ghosts coming out of the woodwork).

[Scarlet Phoenix]

This sudden increase that is atypical of BPD I can only attribute to hormonal changes (she's 52), neurological changes (she has epilepsy), my retirement, and our moving back to where she grew up (ghosts coming out of the woodwork).

That sure seems like a loaded combination for anyone, let alone a pwBPD.

What have you folks said to your SO to let him or her know you have reached your absolute limit?

I've cried and begged and pleaded and tried logic and reason, all to no avail. The one thing that really got to him was when I came out of a session at my psychologist's actually shaking and almost throwing up. I had trouble speaking because my teeth were rattling so bad from shaking. My BPDbf (undiagnosed at the time) was waiting outside to pick me up to go to lunch with his parents and was understandably thrown by my appearance. I ate about two shrimps the whole meal, and must have seemed very "off". After lunch I told him that my therapist said the relationship was very dangerous for my mental and physical health and that I should leave (as in go back to my home country) if things didn't change. To make a long story short, he has been in therapy since. But I have to add, he's in his late 30's and had been frustrated for a long time about the fact that none of his romantic relationships would last. He must have had about 20 or so. I think he really felt like this was his last chance.

When you say you want to tell her "that most of the problem is not me but her" what exactly do you want to happen? Is it that you would like her to commit to therapy? Or just to admit that what you're saying is the truth? Or to apologise to you? Or something else? I'm asking because being clear about what you want might help you find the words or the best action to take.

Also, and finally, have any of you experienced sleeplessness as a symptom in you BPSO?

Not sleeplessness through the whole night, but he often gets just 4-5h of sleep a night. He has trouble sleeping.

I have tried discussing some boundaries with her, to no avail.

You don't really need to discuss boundaries with her. They are for you. You decide which boundaries you need. And you do your best uphold them. She doesn't even have to be told about them. It's not for her to say what constitutes a boundary for you or when the boundary is being crossed. You have all the power over your boundaries.

Living with an pwBPD that isn't committed to therapy for 30 years must not have been easy. I hope you find your way to a more peaceful existence! Are you in therapy yourself? It's been really helpful for me. And finding this site as well.

[waverider]

I get the excessive talking when on a high

Sleeping patterns, along with eating, are all over the place, part of the complete lack of structure in her life. The resultant sleep deprivation doesn't help much either

Boundaries are for you to action, not for discussion otherwise they just become impotent demands. You can state what they are, but dont attempt to get an agreement about them.

[Setter Rob]

Thanks to waverider and Scarlet for pointing out that boundaries are for me to set. When I do, she seems taken aback and often behaves herself for a bit without comment.

She is in therapy but only once or twice a month, for unstated reasons, and her therapist has yet to confront her with the diagnosis. She would be devastated; living with the epilepsy is embarrassing enough,

[waverider]

She is in therapy but only once or twice a month, for unstated reasons, and her therapist has yet to confront her with the diagnosis. She would be devastated;

This is often why they are left unstated, treatment is possible without it, at least until they have got a better grips on their own issues.

You fixing you and how you get yourself and your interactions in the RS in a more beneficial place can start now independent of anything she is doing or is diagnosed with.

[CodependentHusband]

Setter Rob,

    Wow! You've hung in there for a very long time! I know it has to have been difficult!

Thanks to waverider and Scarlet for pointing out that boundaries are for me to set. When I do, she seems taken aback and often behaves herself for a bit without comment.

Well, my dBPDw's reaction when I started setting boundaries was a lot more extreme. Not saying you've got anything easier, because I know that can't possibly be the case. As you pointed out, WR and Scarlet are right... .  boundaries are a beautiful thing. One of the best things about boundaries to me is the fact that since they are for US, we can develop them on our own, AND protect them on our own without ever even having to tell others what we are doing. It's not the secritive/covert aspect of that that is appealing to me as much as it is the empowering aspect of it. We really do have so much more control than we realize, and our pwBPD doesn;t have to change one single thing!

She is in therapy but only once or twice a month, for unstated reasons, and her therapist has yet to confront her with the diagnosis. She would be devastated; living with the epilepsy is embarrassing enough,

You know, when you use the word 'confront,' I can't help but wonder. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I wonder if you think that by her getting a dx for BPD that she will somehow be enlightened and there will be some immediate positive changes? It's not that I am envious of your wife being in therapy, but I do see some irony in the fact that my wife got a diagnosis, went to therapy for a couple of months and then went straight into deep denial. That was over a year ago now, and I see no indications that it will ever change. I do hope that your wife's therapy is providing some positive changes. I would love for my wife to be in therapy, even if it didn't come with a diagnosis.

Hope I'm not being too forward with my post. I'm glad to be here, and I'm glad that you are here. The folks here literally helped me save my current marriage. Stay strong. Things get better every day!

[waverider]

Just a word of warning. My partner at first blocked the dx. Then when she finally accepted it, then hit all the awalls and difficulties in being able to quick fix it she spiralled into hopelessness. This resulted in 20 ODs in the space of 4 months with 15 trips to ER in ambulances.

So leave dx until it evolves when she is ready. To tell someone who has spent their life thinking everyone elses to blame, that they are wrong. that they are the source of the dramas, they are seriously flawed, AND there is no easy fix and things are going to continue to go wrong because of their behavior, which they will have difficulty changing, will not be easy

Add to this their ingrained denial and lack of facing responsibilities. The result is not going to be OK I'll go get it fixed. It will not be pretty.

First they need to become aware of the symptoms for themselves and then be ready for the name of the disorder that ties it all together.

[Setter Rob]

CodependentHust--

The occasional therapy and regular attendnce at ALANON meetings have resulted in some changes. No more physical violence and less verbal violence, longer periods when she seems almost happy with me. But the changes are happening much more slowly than she imagines; she measures her progress by the amount of work she's doing, which is considerable.

But my therapy has changed me, so that I'm a lot less adaptable to her demands and have also begun to recognize some PTSD in myself. Every new criticism falls on a tender bruise. And there are a lot of criticisms, starting with petty household matter; notes left all over the place about how I need to wear quieter slippers, thoroughly wipe the nut butter off any knife before it goes in the dishwasher (that was a half-page note), treat the room she never uses as her sanctuary; shouts at me just as I'm getting out of bed to lower the shades just the way she wants (she wants them lowered a different way every morning). I'm worn out.

[CodependentHusband]

Setter Rob,

     Yes. It makes perfect sense. I can understand why this has left you drained. I feel like I have PTSD -like symptoms as well. It is a hard life. I'm glad we have access to each other. So few people I see in the 'real world' really understand.

  Hang in there!

[Setter Rob]

Everyone--

I just want to make it clear that I did not self-diagnose the PTSD. My therapist has worked for 25 years with abused women and the military, and she's the one who spotted it. At first I was embarrassed at being graced with a diagnosis those far more unlucky than I have qualified for, but she told me to be kind to myself and accept it.

[waverider]

Everyone--

I just want to make it clear that I did not self-diagnose the PTSD. My therapist has worked for 25 years with abused women and the military, and she's the one who spotted it. At first I was embarrassed at being graced with a diagnosis those far more unlucky than I have qualified for, but she told me to be kind to myself and accept it.

This is one of the reasons it is recommended partners goes see a T, rather than just focus on the pwBPD, the collateral damage is not insignificant.

[Chosen]

Setter Rob,

30 years- you have tried really hard and I'm glad you are here!

I think the problem with being with a pwBPD is that they cannot be expected to understand things from your point of view.  She would not think you have been belittled by her- she most probably honestly felt that you deserve it.  Seeing a T on your own is good, and at least you have somebody talking normal stuff in your life! 

I find my uBPDh has incessant talking when he's in a bad mood.  Or rather, he will go silent, then at the slightest provocation explode, rage and talks talks talks.  Those stuff that come out of his mouth can be truly evil and hurtful.  I can only try to not let it set in my brain.

I agree that boundaries are for you to set (I'm not good at that myself), but it will be hard, as she has gone through 30 years without you doing so!

[Mischeevious]

Ironically enough after over a decade of letting my uBPD (w/NPD traits)h control and manipulate me Since I have put boundaries in place he seems to have ( for the moment ) complied with them, it's almost like a child who has no rules and consequences they don't know where they are so they misbehave; as BPD's are emotionally immature it makes sense that they need to be lovingly guided and given clear guidelines as to your boundaries and expectations. I am under no illusion that my UBPD (w/NPD traits)h will be consistent as when he twists he purposely does the opposite, yet I have found now I have stopped over reacting and getting bothered by it he seems to come round quicker. It takes a great deal of strength to set and uphold boundaries especially when , like me, you have been suffering for so long and not enforced them so be patient with yourself and give yourself some credit for your efforts a saying I like is ' if you keep doing what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got' .

Good Luck to you and stay strong.

[waverider]

 

Ironically enough after over a decade of letting my uBPD (w/NPD traits)h control and manipulate me Since I have put boundaries in place he seems to have ( for the moment ) complied with them, it's almost like a child who has no rules and consequences they don't know where they are so they misbehave; as BPD's are emotionally immature it makes sense that they need to be lovingly guided and given clear guidelines as to your boundaries and expectations. I am under no illusion that my UBPD (w/NPD traits)h will be consistent as when he twists he purposely does the opposite, yet I have found now I have stopped over reacting and getting bothered by it he seems to come round quicker. It takes a great deal of strength to set and uphold boundaries especially when , like me, you have been suffering for so long and not enforced them so be patient with yourself and give yourself some credit for your efforts a saying I like is ' if you keep doing what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got' .

Good Luck to you and stay strong.

It is often surprising that the action that we have feared so much, once enacted often exposes what is no more than than hot air bluffing. It is surprising how much can be accomplished by simple uncompromising boundaries

[Auspicious]

what do I say to my dear and very insecure wife to let her know that most of the problem is not me but her?

That kind of approach is ... .  unlikely to result in anything positive.

There's no need for "confronting" or blame. If you really are at the end of your rope, you could tell her that you are not able to continue with the way things are, that you really think that both of you need a complete physical and psychological workup to make sure that you are healthy, and that you need to start couples counseling. If she is unwilling to take any steps toward improving things, you might have to choose to live elsewhere, at least for a time.

Or you might approach it any number of other ways. But "the problem is you, not me" is unlikely to be a good tack.



Incessant talking - could be "pressured speech', a possible symptom of bipolar. Or not.

Sleep disturbance - possible symptom of many things.