A need to vent

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Feeling abject fury. need to put it somewhere.

after trying NC with the suspected BPD several weeks ago, it didn't work. this time. We resumed contact. then the mother of all mind effing happened. They have become a christian, and have told me that if theres any chance ( and the kicker is he can't guarantee that he'll be there if I do any of the stuff hes asking for) then I have to basically go on this ridiculously difficult 'quest' first. Quest consists of doing the 12 steps of Alanon with expedience... . which if I did that I suspect he would extend it into then saying I have to become a christian as well, AND then make amends to his mother... . AND then he might or might 'not' be at the end of the road waiting for me... .

he was baptised at the weekend. I was not invited. he says its because he didn't want to upset his mother (historical reasons) but I think that was an excuse because he didn't want me there. It was painful, a lifechangng moment I couldn't be there for. again. And I have strong reason to beleive hes lying to me about who attended, I think a load of people went and Im the only one who didn't. I asked him tonight if his friends knew about me, he said no. I said why, he said 'because its irrelevent'... . " Im irrelevent?" I asked? He said something about how if Im not 'going to do the work, the status quo remains'... . the work being his decision I have to to Alanon step work and if I don't he won't tell anyone about me.

Is this completely out of order or am I mental?

[pixiepie]

Feeling abject fury. need to put it somewhere.

after trying NC with the suspected BPD several weeks ago, it didn't work. this time. We resumed contact. then the mother of all mind effing happened. They have become a christian, and have told me that if theres any chance ( and the kicker is he can't guarantee that he'll be there if I do any of the stuff hes asking for) then I have to basically go on this ridiculously difficult 'quest' first. Quest consists of doing the 12 steps of Alanon with expedience... . which if I did that I suspect he would extend it into then saying I have to become a christian as well, AND then make amends to his mother... . AND then he might or might 'not' be at the end of the road waiting for me... .

he was baptised at the weekend. I was not invited. he says its because he didn't want to upset his mother (historical reasons) but I think that was an excuse because he didn't want me there. It was painful, a lifechangng moment I couldn't be there for. again. And I have strong reason to beleive hes lying to me about who attended, I think a load of people went and Im the only one who didn't. I asked him tonight if his friends knew about me, he said no. I said why, he said 'because its irrelevent'... . " Im irrelevent?" I asked? He said something about how if Im not 'going to do the work, the status quo remains'... . the work being his decision I have to to Alanon step work and if I don't he won't tell anyone about me.

Is this completely out of order or am I mental?

[benny2]

I guess if you suspect BPD there will be a lot of changes going on much worse than becoming a christian or making amends with his mother. Let me tell you it is no picnic trying to have a relationship with a person who has this disorder. As far as being there at the end of the road, there are no guarentees in any relationship, but especially in one like this. Its a gamble. It does sound as if he is trying to make some positive changes in his life though. I would not discourage it as it may be something he needs in order to make a change.

[pixiepie]

Hi Benny, thanks for you response.

to expand... . I have no issue at all with his choices. We both come from secular backgrounds, and becoming christian has occurred through his relationship with AA. I would rather he was a christian than a drunk. I also have no issue with making an amends to his mother except that to date I don't think hes been honest about the circumstances with which she has an issue with me. That is that last year in a fit of desperation to cope and try and be a better more understanding person I turned to someone and confided in them alot of the personal dealings I was subject to, a fragile recovering alkie with other addictions, mental health problems and depression. That person saw fit to take what I said, amplify it, twist it and then blow it back into the ears of his family. I suspect the BPD was also telling them lies about me to cover his own bad behaviour. I have never met any of them so its easy to lie about a stranger. It almost destroyed both of us, I don't think I've felt so terrible in all my life. One of the things I was trying to do to support them and myself was start going to Alanon as well, hence him bearing down on me about Alanon step work, only the step work has become an ultimatum for future relations between us, not to mention reaching right into MY stepwork and telling me who I should be making amends to which is actually up to me to decide.

[benny2]

I totally understand what you are saying. When I was living with my exbf he painted me black to his family when I started uncovering him cheating with his ex. I was crazy and accusing him of things he was'nt doing, so he said. They do this to cover up their behavior and I can certainly understand why you would feel this way. It is your decison and he really has no right asking you to make amends for something he created.

[motherof1yearold]

Oh I sympathize with you pixie pie, I could have just written this exactly!

As soon as I divorced ex BPD husband he is suddenly a devout christian, and telling me how many hoops I would have to go through if I ever "wanted to be  a family again", and even stating that even if I did it all he still might not take me back . [/i  Talk about mind F***!

Even the whole mother in law thing. Wow. Oh and something I thought about it perhaps is baptism never really occurred, I wouldn't be surprised... .

[pixiepie]

@Benny... . the lying... . its soo frustrating, you can feel it in your bones but you can't prove it! And even if you could they would find a way of turning it round on you

@motherof1yearold... . yes it does sound like you are in exactly the same position. When I asked him if he'd told his friends about me and he said no I said it wasn't very difficult to be on the wrong side of the fence. These 'friends' of his who have known him in one case only 6 months! have both been introduced to his mother and appear to be infallible. It hurts me, I feel shame that I love him and yet he'll have every other person in life whos done far less for him, except me. He said to me tonight after ignoring me for 4 days "You don't get the whole enchilada at the click of your fingers." and I responded that I didn't have any of it. He had a fit at me, turned the whole thing round on me and said I was ungrateful, childish and selfish. I said to him when he speaks to me like that it makes me feel that I have BEEN selfish, gluttonish, self interested and yet none of the fruits of that being the case are to bear. I have nothing, I am hidden from view, and I've been punished over and over again for my lack of 'goodness' for 2 years now. "You've been forgiven" he says, as if lying to me for the first 3 years of our friendship about the true nature of his alcoholism, and mental health, pursuing me, bedding me, abandoning me, cheating on me relentlessly, emotionally abusing me were all a big nothing.

I just needed to know I wasn't being completely unreasonable, and that what hes asking from me, with nothing in return, no guarantees, not even an apparent 'willingness' to work towards me was completely out of line.

[motherof1yearold]

Wow pixie, the more you tell me about the situation the more it sounds similar to mine! I am also being hidden from absolutely EVERYONE in ex's life right now... It makes me feel like he is ashamed of me but it should be the other way around. I know deep in my heart in my situation (and maybe yours too!) that the reason I am being hidden from everyone is because he started a smear campaign on me to everyone who will listen and doesn't know better. He doesn't want me to find out (even know I already know) and possibly defend myself to them! Then his facade will be blown and credibility tarnished. I've been shunned by my entire town now because of his smearing, and complete distortions. It has even prevented me from forming new friendships or relationships. I'm his scapegoat!

[pixiepie]

omg thats EXACTLY what I think is happening in my situation too.

I think he has said horrendous things about me to people along the way and doesn't want me to find out... actually I don't think, I KNOW he has. Things like telling people Im psychotic and crazy and dangerous. When we first got together he reeled me right in with talk of marriage and babies. I left my boyfriend to be with him. Hes told people that I meant to ruin him by blurting to my expartner and his family we were having an affair because my exfather inlaw and he are in the same industry and I wanted to blackball him (never happened! would NEVER hurt my expartner like that!). He didn't tell anybody that despite getting together with me and talking about the future, he then left me on a business trip to Europe and hooked up with a woman who had been his lover before me and cheated, and then cheated on both of us with other women!  Instead he chose to tell everyone I had become weird and clingy and he was distancing himself from me... . not the truth which was after 3 years of trouble free amazing friendship the last 6 months of which we had been confiding in each other daily, to then becoming lovers talking about children, marriage and combining finances... . to going totally cold on me overnight, avoidant, silent and behaving totally out of character. He told everybody it was me who was the problem. not him the drunk stoned lying cheater

Similarly anyone he's met since he came back from that trip he's either completely pretended we don't exist, or if he's mentioned me at all, hes just said a raft of awful painful untrue things. For him to now recant and say he had lied would be to take the very carefully crafted version of himself he's peddled and show himself to be a liar. He's incorporated this christian thing so that now we have 'before christian self' and 'after christian self'... . in his minds eye this concept now allows him to totally distance himself of all his sins, do nothing to work on action that shows change, and to get angry with ME for feeling hurt still about his past trangressions because 'thats finished for me now, I don't want to go back there'... . well MAYBE if he had any interest in action that showed a true repentence and a willingness to make good for the future, keeping me a secret and punishing ME constantly for reminding him hes not perfect and is still lying as a christian isn't the right way to go about it?

To be told its irrelevent if people don't know about our friendship? what the heck? when we are sleeping together? and Im staying at his house once or twice a week but its not relevent to mention this? Ok I think I've ranted enough... . but you get the idea! ... . ugh... .

[motherof1yearold]

Oh yes! In addition to him not wanting you to find out/ defend yourself against all the blasphemous smear campaigns against you, he probably is keeping you & his "other" life separate to continue (or begin) reeling in new women without your knowledge. Not trying to scare you but it's likely. 

"Similarly anyone he's met since he came back from that trip he's either completely pretended we don't exist, or if he's mentioned me at all, hes just said a raft of awful painful untrue things. For him to now recant and say he had lied would be to take the very carefully crafted version of himself he's peddled and show himself to be a liar"  these words right here are gold for you & I and anyone in the middle of a smear campaign!

The question is... . how to handle it? Everyone on the board just goes NC and ignores everyone pretty much. I don't know about you but my borderline and I have a 2 year old together and live 5 minutes away   I am curious how you are holding up while trying to maintain a romantic relationship with him?

[pixiepie]

Don't worry... . while all this has been going on I found him on a dating site by complete accident. sounds stupid but it was genuinely accidental. I asked him if he was dating outright and he said no. Last week he tells me he has been on a date with a woman but then craftily pointed to all her shortcomings and fingered those as the reason why he couldn't pursue it. He went at it... . now that I think on it... . very intellectually and picked out a part about this girl that he knew I would academically relate to what he was saying, so it became about her lack, not his.

So in addition to lying to me about dating and then presumably coming clean because it didn't lead anywhere speaks volumes. All his closest friends are women, all of them have had at some point romantic feelings for him, hes very clever and makes you think you are the centre of his world until he tires of you and you get the rude awakening you are no more special than tom dick or harriet. He admits to sharing his bed with all of them and 'cuddling' as friends although maintains Im the only woman he's slept with. ... . What the heck. I said I had male friends, and if they stay over, they sleep on the couch. HELLO BOUNDARIES.

Im finding it difficult to be honest, Im raging inside, the conversation we had last night I realise he looks for inroads to punish and condemn if he misinterprets or doesn't understand what Im saying, when he could actually just say 'can you explain I don't understand what you mean'. Hes spoiling for an argument which makes me wonder if he really is just setting me up to fail.

I love him, I find it hard being around him because Im so attracted to him, and likewise but the head games make me spin out. I go to Alanon and offload, I have a sponsor, I keep busy, we don't have kids, I don't live close by... . it all helps me cope!

What are you going to do about your situation?

[motherof1yearold]

I don't mean to be cynical but I am glad you two don't have children already. It is an entire other thing. I'm actually divorced from mine , only 20 years old (he is older) but my divorce cost 30grand on my side and 30 on his. I think, wow, that could have been a college education for our child. 

I'm sure you already well aware of this, but all the rules that apply to you strictly , do NOT apply to him. That's just the name of the game. Mine is the same, Pretty much all of them are.

He often wants to trap you in to punish you because he is most likely projecting his own short comings.

I am merely curious, but has there been any domestic violence in your situation? verbal, physical, sexual? It's pretty common with BPD men and women alike. :/

As far as my situation, I have no idea. I have control over nothing no matter what I do so no matter what happens I just focus on myself going for 100% custody of the toddler since he is never present on his time. ( we have equal parenting time)

Mine goes back and forth alot like yours does, so I just keep my goals in mind regarding the child and having enough money for myself and her, as far as a relationship, I would be self sacrificing alot again, though while I am apart from him his sadistic punishment is worse then actually being together ! :P

[pixiepie]

sounds like a good plan!

I am still deciding what to do next. its so dfficult. Loving these people. Hes fundamentally asking me to show my devotion to him by converting to religion (eventually) and thats a huge ask.

[motherof1yearold]

A big thing on the staying board is setting boundaries... . I was never able to do it because mine pushed me away further if I did not conform to whatever he wanted. Mine had me convert from hare krsna to Christianity. To this day I'm still so confused about the whole ordeal !

Have you read splitting yet? It may help you out a bit, I finally read it about 6 months ago. May be able to find at the library. It is a mind blower.

[pixiepie]

Thanks.

I have done a lot of reading yep, its difficult to temper my feelings with the reality of what it means to having him in my life, even at the edges.

What I'm struggling with is the all the lying. This thing with the baptism is huge, lies about who was there, lies about no pictures being taken, lies about one of his female friends just phoning when in reality she flew from another country and spent the weekend at his house cavorting about being best pals with the mother Im not even allowed to meet. Lies. This is a person who tells me he feels good about being a christian last night! He doesn't know that I know hes lying, and I can't say how I know but man does it hurt so bad to be out here in the cold for the sin of knowing too much, getting too close and being slandered to keep me at a distance.

Should I just leave? I wonder if there is no other choice.

[connect]

Hello there,

My symapthies are with you on this one. I also left my long term partner for my uBPDbf and seem to be on the reciving end of a lot of ill treatments at the moment.

At the moment mine is behaving awfully towards me by going on holiday with his ex in two weeks. I am not sure if I will be waiting around on his return. Since he has made this decision he has been looking for a fight with me and has withdrawn. I have also been cut out of certain sides of his life – his “single mum friends” from playgroup (including the ex) I have never been allowed to meet them in over a year which I think is because he has been telling them untruths about me to gain sympathy etc from them. This weekend his mother (who I have always got on well with and was totally on my side about the holiday) verbally laid into me about the holiday and seems to now dislike me. Goodness knows what he has been telling her. This stuff really hurts on so many levels.

I have also worked out recently that I have been sent on some kind if quest up til now. “I’ll be properly with you (ie he will trust me) when you do... . this... . this... . etc” The goalposts just keep moving though. It’s like being in a desert walking towards a b****y mirage.

I really hope you are ok.

[motherof1yearold]

Leaving is an option. Though you aren't out of the woods when you leave, BPD's tend to dysregulate HARD after you break up, especially if they are not the dumper. The lies drive me crazy too, the latest is I called him out on stealing my wedding bands right in front of my face (that I paid for) and turns blue in the face saying I "lost them" when I saw him put them on his finger and disappear. Maybe they believe their lies? I don't know.

[pixiepie]

Connect - thanks for coming into the chat, I really feel for you, what a rubbish situation to be in. and whats with that whole 'quest' thing anyway! haha my gosh! do they have a handbook and share it amongst each other? Its so hard to take the lying about your character to elevate their own poor perception of themselves. I've always felt compelled to correct the balance which is probably the last thing I should do. Perhaps you should not be there when he gets back and put yourself first? perhaps I should follow my own advice... .

@Motherof1yearold... . unbeleivable... I wish I could understand the lying, is there anywhere in these boards about why all the lying? dysregulate? whats that?

[motherof1yearold]

There's definitely alot. I believe it is on the "questions about BPD " board- titled something like "do BPDs lie?"

Though I do find the description of your pwBPD to be a bit antisocial , try googling anti social personality disorder (name is misleading) but that is where the lying really comes in full swing. All the cluster B personalities are often wrapped up into one.

I'll try to find some links on BPD Lying - ex is coming to pick up the baby- Oh joy! 

[pixiepie]

good luck with hand over!

funny you know he is antisocial in the context of having social anxieties, not really leaving the house sometimes, not liking large crowds and yet in his profession hes required to stand up in front of large groups of people and talk, as well as events commentating so its so weird he doesn't like socialising but will do two things most people without social fears would think twice about getting up to do. I'm very social and I would never do his job!

will look in at the stuff about lying because hes absolutely unstoppable in this arena, and I don't understand the thought processes that drive how pathlogical it is. :/

[motherof1yearold]

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from ano

Any of  that ring a bell?

[motherof1yearold]

A few weeks or so ago I posted on the Parenting after the split board about the smear campaign out of control,

to generalize the main solution to that marbleoser I gave a great response:

"This is something you can't control. There's going to be people that take his side,and people that take your side.It's a difficult thing to deal with,I know.Just be yourself,take the high road,and the truth will eventually find it's way out.If a potential bf is so easily swayed,are you sure that's someone you'd want to date?

As for the friends,well,you find out who your friends are in situations like this.Try to stay out of the triangulation (read definition)."

If you would like to see the whole thread it is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=195979.0

There are also many other posts from people about how to deal with the smear campaign all over the boards if you can find them.

[pixiepie]

parts of antisocial ring true but not all... hes more NPD/BPD and I've seen evidence that at least one of his siblings is NPD.

I beleive his relationship with his mother is... . 'interesting'... . she seems to have a firm grasp of him, or rather he doesn't seem to be able to make relationship/interpersonal decisions without her guidance/sign off as if he doesn't trust his own choice making. She encouraged his cheating in 2011 insidiously, and I've seen evidence that shes responsbile for normalising the permission to make 'white lies'... . not really white some of them are big fat lies, as she interferes in her childrens relationships presumably with good intentions but how can lying be good?

He is very successful in his career, NOW, but has held a variety of jobs and been fired from at least one after a drinking related incident. Hes only been in fights as an adult, and the lack of remorse seems only to be how he treats women he gets involved with. I started another thread yesterday in which he's cryptically refused to offer me his support either physical or moral when I have surgery next week. REFUSED. what? on the grounds hes 'given me plenty'... . but I don't even know what he's talking about. The last maybe 3 times I've reached out when I've really needed him hes rejected me so Im completely mystified as to what this plenty hes given me is. I suspect he thinks 'forgiving me' for being put in an extraordinarily rubbish situation by him is what he forgives me for! This whole thing is doing my head in. Im reaching a resolution to attempt NC again because not supporting me at this time seems cruel, and really malicious. How can he call me a friend, or tell me we might have a chance if he can't do something as basic as say 'if you need anything Im here' while I have an operation? to say I feel hurt is an understatement.

[motherof1yearold]

Oh my gosh I'm outraged at all of that!

I wish you luck on your surgery next week and I hope you have a good friend or family member there to support and comfort you . ( I hope it isn't serious! ) I , sadly can relate, whenever I gave birth to our daughter my BPD ex would not come to the hospital until he talked to the nurse on the phone saying I was in labour ( I was 2 weeks past due for Christ's sake!) He came as I was in the operating room getting an emergency C section. After everything calmed down, it was 7 pm, and I just wanted him to admire our daughter together and he barks at me "IM THE ONE WHO WENT TO WORK TODAY. IM GOING TO BED." and went to sleep instantly without batting an eyelash. I was amazed! I was thinking " Oh , excuse me, I am the one who just had major surgery resulting in a baby, YOUR baby at that. Please forgive me ! "  Sorry to ramble but my point is *THAT* is one of the few moments I realized what he really is like deep down!

Interesting you say he has had a few alcohol problems and adult fights, my ex husband lived at the bar , WORKED at the same bar and even got in a bad fist fight there and kept his job. Amazing. It isn't like I minded his drinking, I just didn't like him drinking and driving because all of his near DUI's- he has been pulled over for DUI twice and gotten off both times! Unbelieveable!

Sorry I typed so much but I do hope  you find out what you want to do, and if no contact is the solution, you will have MANY supporters on this site (including me) who can help you along the way.

I hate to ask, but what kind of operation are you having? I don't mean to pry just want to send my support! I'm so sorry he is being so unsupportive and cold.

[pixiepie]

I really sympathise with your birth story. I was put in the same situation by my childrens father, 6 days overdue with our first son, doesn't even come to my home (we were not living together), I go into labour and call him and he says 'are you just ringing to bother me'. I was in labour for 2 days and he never rang once. In a state of emotional distress at his absence and the birth not going well I asked my best friend to ring him and tell him baby was coming but that I didn't want him there (too terrified he would not show up anyway). He punished me for this transgression by refusing to visit me once in hospital even though the labour was 37 hours long, and a ventousse delivery. Our boy was 8 days old before he showed up at my house to 'view' him and even then would not touch him. He said he didn't want a bar of us because he wasn't 'invited to the party'... . yeah... feeling like I was dying and giving birth to a posterior positioned 9 pound baby was some type of party. He died in 2006 so I felt that chapter was over but here it seems Im repeating it with a new offender who is equally as punishing, self centred and just downright mean.

Im having what is a fairly routine procedure to remove precancerous cells from the cervix after returning a high grade abnormality off a pap smear. I have associated psychological difficulties with womens health issues and have to be put to sleep for it because I experience severe anxiety, distress and discomfort. I would have been more than happy to know he cared enough to offer without actually taking up anything from him but a clear stake in the ground is what I was shown instead. To quantify friendship and support like I dunno, dolling out chips and saying 'I've given you plenty'... . defies logic. He would NOT treat anyone else like this.

My expartner who I am on good terms with called me yesterday and offered without provocation to take me to and from the hospital and look after me for the weekend. that is what I would have expected from a true friend and even though we don't really know each other I really appreciate your support here as well

[motherof1yearold]

Oh I sympathise so much with your story as well! That is heartbreaking!

I do hope you take up your friend's offer to care for you before and after surgery, I think you having a caring person near by would also lessen anxiety before & after the procedure. And I wish you luck and a fast recovery!

Since you are posting on the undecided board I encourage you to look through a few of other people's post to help you decide for sure. Also look through a few posts on the staying and leaving board just to get an idea.

This last part may not be good advice; but I would calmly and plainly tell your BPD how you feel about his being unsupportive in your time of need - and perhaps see how you feel about the relationship from there, he may try to drag you in or just abandon ship. (I do notice  a pattern in BPD's , that they cannot be supportive of you but they expect you to be supportive of them)

An example of what I said above ^ : On Christmas day my ex husband got a NASTY 24 hour virus (vomiting,diarrhea ALL night - sorry tmi) But I was concerned and stayed up all night comforting him in the bathroom. The next day I had contracted it from him, with more severity. I had a different symptom, my arms and legs locked up and I could not even call 911 or unlock my arms. I cried for him to call 911 and he barked at me to "Get up and breastfeed the baby! She's keeping me up!" Ultimately I did bring up how I felt about him not being there for me the way I was for him and he had no response.

Anyway I can understand your anxiety, especially about next week,but perhaps in the future you may get on meds from your doctor to help you out . I got on klonopin a few months ago and it has really helped! It is also inexpensive with no medical insurance.

I wish you well, keep us updated !

[pixiepie]

thanks so much

I have thought about telling him how I feel but Im afraid. he has NO awareness I think, and is very self righteous. to put forward that type of challenge to him I can imagine he will use it to highlight all my faults and say things like "the fact you don't even know what I've given you just shows you don't listen or pay attention to anything and you [insert everything that is wrong with me here]" Im certain he is fishing for a breach at present so he can abandon me and blame me for it.

Im undecided how I should proceed but find his behaviour truly unacceptable in the face of the difficulties I have around this operation.

I will let you know what happens

[motherof1yearold]

I understand where you are coming from, I am the same way with BPD ex husband.

Hope you figure things out soon! Keep us updated!