How to be with a partner's heavy, serious moods

[LetItBe]

My uBPDbf has been in such a serious, tense mood lately, and he won't talk about what's on his mind.  I asked him the other night, and he seemed angry and exasperated, saying coldly, "I can't meet your needs.  I feel like there's a test around every corner."  I became sad, and he eventually came out of his anger and wrapped his arms around me, saying, "You didn't do anything wrong."  

I want to have some FUN!  Before this r/s, and sometimes now when I'm not with him, I was more lighthearted, smiling, and positive.  A lot of times now, I'll be smiling and happy, show up to see my bf, and he's in a totally serious, heavy mood.  I'll try to maintain my lighter mood, but it's so hard.  This is SO much like the dynamic I had w/my (mostly depressed) mother.  Ugh.  NOT fun.  There is just this way that my bf's intense moods can affect everyone in the room.  He's aware of it, too, and has talked about it.  I'm aware this isn't something I can expect him to change, that this is just who he is.  Of course, when he's feeling well, things are wonderful and some of the best times I've ever had.  Of course there are good things, or I wouldn't be so drawn to him. Typical of what we read about here on the boards... . so BPD.

I want to spend time with him, but I'm not sure what kind of mood I'll encounter next time I see him.  I'd prefer to wait until he's not so tense because it seems counterproductive to spend time together when he's that way.  I won't know until I see him, though.  That's not something I feel I can just email him or text him about today before taking him up on his invitation to get together tonight, right?  "Hey, are you in a better mood today and ready to have some fun tonight?"  

What do you guys do when you already have plans in place, you show up, and your partner is in an obviously foul mood, somewhat closed off to you, but not outwardly raging?  

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[briefcase]

Their moods tend to be  intense.  And that intensity tends to have an effect on the people around them, especially if they are a bit enmeshed emotionally.

Maybe approach these situations first with some validating questions.  "You seem preoccupied/tense/upset right now.  What's on your mind?"  I have a lot of success with this approach - kind of putting my observations out there for discussion.  It will let him know how he is coming across in a non-threatening way and possibly address it.  If it gets too intense or veers into abuse, you can always call a time out and come back later.

     

[rosannadanna]

Hi nongf ,

I also grew up with a depressed mother, but also a bipolor father who thought he was the nightly entertainment for the rest of the family .

This is a corrective relationship, so it is not a coincidence that you are with someone who regularly has depressed moods.  He feels feels familiar to you b/c of your mother and dysfunctional relationships (BPD alone makes it unstable) are our way of trying to correct past experiences.  That is just my opinion, but I base it on all that I have read and researched since engaging in an intimate relationship with a pwBPD.

Being intimately involved, then emotionally detaching from the dysfunction of a pwBPD has been a gateway to huge self-discovery.  It sounds like your SO is fun to be with when he is not depressed and that he has insight into his depressed mood, so he potentially can own his feelings and not put them on you.

Briefcase's feedback is good; that is how I approach my dude when he is down.  Also I head off any "emotion-dumping" by asking him "Is there anything I can do to help?"  after he shares that he is feeling crappy.  Ironically, this question is very soothing to him and helps him to sit with his own negative emotion without trying to dump it by projecting/splitting black/picking a fight.  He is very appreciative of the validation and the offer to help, which is a far cry from our past pattern in which I had more of a "suck it up" approach.  Oh lord!  I was so afraid of being engulfed by his emotions (like when I was a little girl afraid that her mentally ill, overly dramatic parents were going to engulf her) that I just wanted him to "get over it".  The irony is that when I detached, developed healthy boundaries, and offered help from a compassionate, open place, he was more secure and able to hold his own emotions!

Good luck and take care  

[lizzie458]

Ditto to everything that's already been said!  There are plenty of times when my dBPDh is in a terrible mood and it's all directed at me like I have a bullseye painted on my forehead, but when I really think about it - a lot of the time I just wander into his crosshairs.  What I mean by that is, he is dysregulating for one reason or another (reasons that don't have to do with me) and I personalize it.  If I think he's mad at me then I'm mad at him because he obviously misread something.  If I think he's mad because of something else, then I'm mad at him because he's wasting our time together being in a funk.  I'm affected because it's no fun being with a person like that (as everyone has agreed) and also because I start to worry about whether or not he's painting me black, is he about to rage? etc.  That's usually when I get in trouble.  Being BPD and very sensitive to emotions, he can sense it right away and my emotions make him REALLY anxious and scared, which tends to turn into a rage in about a split second.  Much of the time when I take offense after he snaps at me, he starts in on me with, "I'm not mad at YOU!"     He doesn't understand how intense his moods can be, and how rude he comes off when he just feels "bored" (empty) or "frustrated" (scared).

Anyway, things work out much better when I'm able to validate, ask if I can help, and when the answer is "no" say, "well honey, I am so sorry you're feeling x".  This generally goes over best if I lightly touch him as I say the final validating statement (by that last statement, usually the initial steam of intensity has bled off).  If he remains in a funk, many times I just go do my own thing with loving detachment.  Although most times he gets like this we happen to be in the car and I can't get away, which is interesting.


I should add that if I'm not emotionally "with it" enough to deal like I've mentioned above, this whole thing usually blows up into a pretty big fight with both people feeling unheard and hurt and wanting an apology from the other.  In cases when I accidentally set him off or whatever and I can't get away, I have found that silence in the face of his rage works out better than almost anything.  In Al-Anon it's called "dropping the rope" (as in the pwBPD dangles a rope in front of you, and you pick it up for a game of tug of war). You can't have a fight with someone who won't fight.

[arabella]

My experience is very similar to that of lizzie458. The bad mood is a no win situation, so the best bet is just to move on.

Maybe approach these situations first with some validating questions.  "You seem preoccupied/tense/upset right now.  What's on your mind?" 

I find this doesn't work quite as well as just asking if there's anything I can do to help (as per other suggestions). I think it depends on the individual, so you'll have to test it out. For me, my dBPDh finds my asking what's on his mind very frustrating because he usually doesn't know(?) So then he snaps at me and tells me I'm making it worse. Now I just tell him I notice he seems tense/stressed/whatever and is there anything I can do? The answer is always 'no' but he does relax a bit. Then I usually walk away (after forcing myself not to roll my eyes - haha) or suggest a distracting activity that requires minimal interaction or emotional processing - watch a movie, workout (together or separately), go out to run errands, etc. Sometimes just getting out of the house helps, he regulates better in public and that forced facade often helps snap him out of his mood.

But I think you're asking what to do in the event that you show up and he's in a foul mood and you don't want to get bogged down in it, right? Would he be receptive, during a good mood, to a discussion re how sometimes you get the impression that maybe he just 'needs some space'? Because if you can get him on-board with that line of thinking you could then call/text before you go over to ask if it's a good night or if he'd rather 'have some extra time to himself'. Much less confrontational or judgmental. If you get there and he IS in a bad mood, you could maybe try some of my distraction ideas. At least if you're watching a movie or are around other people his mood will affect you less, right?

[benny2]

I also will say nicely, "you seem like your in a bad mood" and if he wants to discuss it he will. A lot of times I think they don't even know why their in a mood or actually realize they are acting that way. There never seems to be any way of turning it around, you just have to hope that next time will be better.

[Tigerabbit]

First of all, I relate to this very deeply, NonGF! (As I'm sure most of us do... .   ) I completely feel your frustration and uncertainty.

Maybe approach these situations first with some validating questions.  "You seem preoccupied/tense/upset right now.  What's on your mind?"       

I soo wish I could do this. I still try it sometimes, but this in itself is a huge trigger for him. If I point out he is in a bad mood, he either says something like "obviously, now are you going to do anything to help or just be useless as usual?" or "you've known me for ten years and you don't know what's wrong/how to put me in a better mood?" Sometimes just asking him how he's doing when I don't already know he's in a bad mood is a trigger, and he'll say something like "I wasn't thinking about what a bad mood I was in but now I am thanks to you," and so on. Does anyone else deal with this type of behavior?

What I try to do now is not let my anxiety rise (which it typically does when he even begins to get upset), and rather than ask him how he's doing or what I can do to help, I try to stay in a lighthearted mood (which, as you said NonGF, can be very difficult to do. Usually my mood is changed due to my feelings getting hurt, so not taking things personally is a big help here) and try to do the things that I do know to be helpful sometimes, and if he asks me to stop if I try rubbing his shoulders or whatever, I stop. If he wants to offer and share with me what is currently bothering him, I've learned that he will. For some reason he gets very irritated when asked questions.

What I need to learn is that if he gets increasingly upset at my "inability" to "fix" his mood, I need to just leave (even though this in itself triggers him, I think because he feels abandoned and uncared for). In the long run, it's better I leave to avoid him becoming abusive which leads to BOTH of us feeling awful.

We are also currently taking time apart while he "gets clean", and I'm hoping that once he isn't being affected by drugs/withdrawals that he will be a little easier to deal with/in control of himself when he is in a mood. Another thing that is important (and very difficult for me) is recognizing my OWN limits and whether or not I'm in a place where I can be patient and understanding of him and not make the situation worse.

[LetItBe]

Thanks for all of the great advice! 

Unfortunately, asking him kindly if there was something on his mind set him off.  I can see where I could have done even better, but can't perfectly tailor my every word so that I don't set off a reaction in him.  That's the walking on eggshells thing... .

It's turned out that all of my care and concern about this might be for nil.  He has broken an important agreement that we made, one that hits a very tender spot for me, and I haven't heard from him since we had a lovely, passionate evening 2 nights ago.  I can't continue with him if he doesn't make a huge apology with the willingness to back it up very soon, and I doubt he has the ability to do that.

[arabella]

No, you can't walk on eggshells with every word. Sometimes the trigger is just going to go off no matter what we do. I think it's just a matter of knowing we did our best!

I'm really sorry to hear things aren't going well.  The waiting game is so hard. Do you have a game plan? Do you know what you are going to do if he comes back without the apology you need?

[LetItBe]

No, you can't walk on eggshells with every word. Sometimes the trigger is just going to go off no matter what we do. I think it's just a matter of knowing we did our best!

I'm really sorry to hear things aren't going well.  The waiting game is so hard. Do you have a game plan? Do you know what you are going to do if he comes back without the apology you need?

Thank you, arabella!  You are right -- regardless of the outcome, I know I've done my absolute best.

If he comes back without an apology, I can't continue.  I'm still exploring what I might say, although I don't feel there is anything more I can say to bring resolution at this point.  It's not like if I say it more loudly he'll hear me.  I've already used the tools when articulating my small, very very easy-to-fulfill requests -- which at some point must have made sense because he thanked me for expressing my needs even though it was difficult for me, and he said he was willing to help meet those needs.  After I expressed a need in the past, though, and several days after we'd come to an agreement, he dysregulated pretty intensely, and he expressed he felt "like you're trying to trick me." More recently, I heard, "I feel like there's a test around every corner."  So, I imagine this current scenario is a continuation of that thinking and that he's rebelling.

[waverider]

I dont ask my partner to do anything when she is in this mood, that includes asking her to tell me what is on her mind or bothering. I keep it about me and ask if there is anything I can do. If the answer is no then I give her space.

As far as prearranged plans go, I don't set anything in concrete and often have a plan B drawn up in case it turns into a no go. I don't try to fix their mood unless they ask for something specific.

[arabella]

After I expressed a need in the past, though, and several days after we'd come to an agreement, he dysregulated pretty intensely, and he expressed he felt "like you're trying to trick me." More recently, I heard, "I feel like there's a test around every corner."  So, I imagine this current scenario is a continuation of that thinking and that he's rebelling.

Like an extinction burst? Because I could absolutely see that being the case. How have previous agreements worked out once he's done dysregulating? Does he go back to them or does he continue to rebel?

Also, I have to thank you because this gives me some food for thought as well... . I'm wondering how much of my 'help' and the shifting dynamic of my r/s (I'm implementing stuff I've learned here on bpdfamily.com) is causing my H to dysregulate more? He doesn't deal well with change - even positive change. Huh.

[benny2]

interesting arabella, I also am trying a bit of a different approach this recycle . He had me running all his errands before and doing just about anything he could find for me to do. I did not mind doing these things when I was living there because we shared a home, but after I moved out it I kicked myself in the butt everytime I ran to get his groceries, ect. Now I am offering to do nothing but be in his presence a few times a week. He has strongly hinted, " gee I sure need groceries, guess I'll have to get my daughter to run" and I say nothing. He does nothing for himself. I know she is getting tired of being his gofer too. I also am not putting any pressure on the relationship this time. I know hes wondering why I'm not catering to his every need, so it will be interesting to see how this turns out. He also does not take well to change, but he does nothing for me so why should I cater to him.

[LetItBe]

After I expressed a need in the past, though, and several days after we'd come to an agreement, he dysregulated pretty intensely, and he expressed he felt "like you're trying to trick me." More recently, I heard, "I feel like there's a test around every corner."  So, I imagine this current scenario is a continuation of that thinking and that he's rebelling.

Like an extinction burst? Because I could absolutely see that being the case. How have previous agreements worked out once he's done dysregulating? Does he go back to them or does he continue to rebel?

Also, I have to thank you because this gives me some food for thought as well... . I'm wondering how much of my 'help' and the shifting dynamic of my r/s (I'm implementing stuff I've learned here on bpdfamily.com) is causing my H to dysregulate more? He doesn't deal well with change - even positive change. Huh.

I've only recently read about extinction bursts, and I suppose that could be a valid explanation for this behavior.  Thoughts from others here?

Previous agreements?  I've walked on eggshells so long, there haven't been many agreements.  The agreement I mentioned in my previous post, where he initially agreed, then responded w/extreme dysregulation and saying several days later, "I feel like you're trying to trick me," was one of my first attempts at making a request.  I used DEARMAN and was very mindful in my approach.  I was surprised when he later told me he couldn't remember the conversation where we'd come to an agreement.  He asked me to tell him again what was said and asked if I "made him do it" and if he "agreed to do it."  He seemed to have erased that entire conversation from his mind.  I'd never seen such a thing, so I was pretty stunned.  After I recounted the conversation to him, he let me know he'd followed through on our agreement a few days before that.  Strange sequence there... .   Seems he had bad feelings come up and needed someone to pin those feelings on -- me, of course.

So, it's like there are 2 men I'm dealing with here.  One of them can have mature, adult conversations that seem very thoughtful, understanding, and lead to resolution.  Then, the other man (child?) comes out and implodes everything.

Like you, I've been getting better at implementing the tools here.  At first, things were really improving for both of us.  He expressed his gratitude for my efforts, and we seemed to be in a healthier space.  Now, it seems even positive change might be too much for him to handle.

I hate BPD.

[patientandclear]

I hate BPD too!

Just wanted to chime in & say I am sure you are right that he is rebelling against the instinct that he is being controlled.  If these small, minimal agreements are a bottom line for you (and I absolutely think they should be), if he is going to feel resentment about them and subvert them, that's just not viable.

I do wonder if, if you stick to your position, he will eventually give up resisting and return to honoring the agreement you needed.  If he is now trying to dislodge you but if he cannot, he will give up that attempt and do this minimal thing you've said you need.  Hard to know in advance.

I hate BPD I hate BPD I hate BPD.  It frustrates so many sweet and beautiful efforts on the part of both people.

P&C

[arabella]

I was surprised when he later told me he couldn't remember the conversation where we'd come to an agreement.  He asked me to tell him again what was said and asked if I "made him do it" and if he "agreed to do it."  He seemed to have erased that entire conversation from his mind.  I'd never seen such a thing, so I was pretty stunned. 

***

So, it's like there are 2 men I'm dealing with here.  One of them can have mature, adult conversations that seem very thoughtful, understanding, and lead to resolution.  Then, the other man (child?) comes out and implodes everything.

Like you, I've been getting better at implementing the tools here.  At first, things were really improving for both of us.  He expressed his gratitude for my efforts, and we seemed to be in a healthier space.  Now, it seems even positive change might be too much for him to handle.

I hate BPD.

This happens to me! Our last 'agreement' I actually emailed to him because I suspected he wouldn't remember. It is entirely like dealing with 2 separate people. He's read the email but he still can't remember it. I think his brain actively tries to forget it. Sometimes I mention it (it's an ongoing sort of thing) and he gets angry and says he doesn't remember, then I remind him of the email and he says he'll have to read it again. So weird. I too wonder if they eventually will 'settle in' and stop resisting?

Does anyone with more experience know if pwBPD 're-regulate' after positive changes? Is it just a matter of waiting out the burst or are the positive changes just too much without some sort of concurrent therapy?  

Also? I HATE BPD.

[LetItBe]

This happens to me! Our last 'agreement' I actually emailed to him because I suspected he wouldn't remember. It is entirely like dealing with 2 separate people. He's read the email but he still can't remember it. I think his brain actively tries to forget it. Sometimes I mention it (it's an ongoing sort of thing) and he gets angry and says he doesn't remember, then I remind him of the email and he says he'll have to read it again. So weird. I too wonder if they eventually will 'settle in' and stop resisting?

Wow, amazing similarities here!  Here's another one for you:  my last request (articulated kindly and gently with DEARMAN), I wrote on a piece of paper, and I left it with him after we talked about it.  It was a request that he please let me know when he needs to take some space.  He'd done it before, and it worked so well for both of us.  He seemed receptive to it, but come to think of it, he's breaking that agreement right now, too.

[LetItBe]

I do wonder if, if you stick to your position, he will eventually give up resisting and return to honoring the agreement you needed.  If he is now trying to dislodge you but if he cannot, he will give up that attempt and do this minimal thing you've said you need.  Hard to know in advance.

I wonder about this, too.  I have a hunch that's what will happen (unless he has found a replacement already) after he sits with himself for awhile.  Historically, he's been able to untwist his thinking, but this is just not okay.  If he comes back with a huge apology, a reason for what happened, and the resolve to make it better, it's going to require couples' therapy (with a DBT therapist) -- and not just good intentions.

OMG, as I was typing this, I just received a text from him!  "Hey, Baby... . ," with updates about Easter plans with his parents.  REALLY?

[krista8521]

  Hello,

I can also relate to this. My BPD Husband will get in these volatile moods that go on for about 3 days at a time.

When he is like this, he is so ugly and vicious. He also falls into this deep drawn out self absorbed pity for himself.

The last time he was like this he said out of the blue, one day when you die no one will even come to your funeral, no one can stand you.

He then said even the kids when they grow up will have nothing to do with you, and by the way you are such a failure, that's why you are so depressed all the time, because you turned out to be a nothing.

He will do garbage like wake up at 4am and use the bathroom and decided to make all kinds of noise and when I wake and ask him what his problem is, he says crap like "so now you have to get up in the night and start fights with me?"

If you even look at him cross, he will start up how I treat him like trash, he is constantly being belittled by me, he is a victim etc... if you try to defend yourself against his cruel remarks, your "picking fights" and he is sick of being drug down by my miserable attitude.

He will go for hours on end, pecking at you, provoking you, and the minute you respond he is a victim! you are attacking him, blah blah, poor me! the kicker is that "all you ever do is fight, I cant take it anymore"

Its like a chemical imbalance, then it just stops as fast as it started and he is fun, loving, and everything is fine. What hurts is, I am never allowed to even say how his acts hurt me, he will start yelling over me, run out of the room, I am to just suck up that hurt full episode. period, end of subject.

Well, what has worked for me when this ugly faze starts is to get up grab my voice recorder, turn it on and say you have been warned, I am recording you. I also refuse to respond to him on any provocation.

I also let him believe that I will allow others to hear what a animal he sounds like. (I wouldn't)

It almost always stops within a hour after him being on notice of a recording.

Its so difficult to deal with, and he will always try to make me feel like its my fault he is so ugly, I did this, and he is being verbally abused by me!

Then it shuts off and you are just exacerbated by what you just were put through emotionally.

I cant believe its even the same person, how he splits like that at times.

The best advice, recognize his mood, do not feed into it, and stay as far away while they cycle through it.

[arabella]

If he comes back with a huge apology, a reason for what happened, and the resolve to make it better, it's going to require couples' therapy (with a DBT therapist) -- and not just good intentions.

You realize if you start therapy he'll dysregulate again and you'll face the biggest extinction burst of your life, right? Then you'll have to convince him to go back to therapy (because he'll quit when he dysregulates). I'm not saying this to change your mind - I think your boundary is excellent and that this is what you should do - I'm just putting it out there as a warning so that you can plan ahead for it (in so far as that can be done).

OMG, as I was typing this, I just received a text from him!  "Hey, Baby... . ," with updates about Easter plans with his parents.  REALLY?

Uh, yeah. Me too. He's telling me he's moving out, this will never work, our r/s is doomed, etc... . but what time are we going to his parents' for Easter dinner? And have I bought tickets for us for that event in three weeks yet? WHAT?

[LetItBe]

You realize if you start therapy he'll dysregulate again and you'll face the biggest extinction burst of your life, right? Then you'll have to convince him to go back to therapy (because he'll quit when he dysregulates). I'm not saying this to change your mind - I think your boundary is excellent and that this is what you should do - I'm just putting it out there as a warning so that you can plan ahead for it (in so far as that can be done).

OMG, as I was typing this, I just received a text from him!  "Hey, Baby... . ," with updates about Easter plans with his parents.  REALLY?

Uh, yeah. Me too. He's telling me he's moving out, this will never work, our r/s is doomed, etc... . but what time are we going to his parents' for Easter dinner? And have I bought tickets for us for that event in three weeks yet? WHAT?

You made a very valid point about couple's therapy, arabella.  I've read some awful accounts here about couples' therapy with a pwBPD.  I have a T friend who works with pwBPD and used to do couples' therapy.  She cautioned, "There will be LOTS of splitting."

It doesn't look like couples' therapy is in the picture for us as of this morning.  I texted him a response last night about how I was feeling.  He responded like he had no clue at all why.  REALLY?  

It's wild how similar our experiences are right now, arabella!

[arabella]

I was surprised when he later told me he couldn't remember the conversation where we'd come to an agreement.  He asked me to tell him again what was said and asked if I "made him do it" and if he "agreed to do it."  He seemed to have erased that entire conversation from his mind. 

***

So, it's like there are 2 men I'm dealing with here.  One of them can have mature, adult conversations that seem very thoughtful, understanding, and lead to resolution.  Then, the other man (child?) comes out and implodes everything.

And now:

It doesn't look like couples' therapy is in the picture for us as of this morning.  I texted him a response last night about how I was feeling.  He responded like he had no clue at all why.  REALLY? 

It's wild how similar our experiences are right now, arabella!

So I'm thinking he's maybe again completely 'erased' your agreement from his mind? Which means he really has no idea why you're so upset. Which is rather   I suppose that's still better than him breaking the agreement 'on purpose'?

So, okay, what's the new plan of action? Are you trying to work back through the agreement that he's forgotten? This seems to be a pattern... . Any ideas how to break the cycle?

I came to a new agreement with my H this morning. His comment after an hour long talk? "I hope I remember this."   Great. At least he admitted he has no idea how things are going to play out or where his mind might go from here. Honestly though? I'm on the verge of losing my last vestige of sanity here. So I empathize completely (unfortunately or fortunately?)   

[LetItBe]

So I'm thinking he's maybe again completely 'erased' your agreement from his mind? Which means he really has no idea why you're so upset. Which is rather   I suppose that's still better than him breaking the agreement 'on purpose'?

So, okay, what's the new plan of action? Are you trying to work back through the agreement that he's forgotten? This seems to be a pattern... . Any ideas how to break the cycle?

I came to a new agreement with my H this morning. His comment after an hour long talk? "I hope I remember this."   Great. At least he admitted he has no idea how things are going to play out or where his mind might go from here. Honestly though? I'm on the verge of losing my last vestige of sanity here. So I empathize completely (unfortunately or fortunately?)  

Sorry you're feeling the same way... . losing the last vestige of sanity.  

It has definitely crossed my mind that he could have really forgotten.  :)ue to the fact this agreement came about because of an ongoing issue that goes waaay back -- and the agreement is something that's been discussed repeatedly -- my T friend was saying last night that she has a hard time believing that he doesn't remember what he agreed to do.  However, tonight she said she supposes that if he has DID, maybe one alter comes out and creates agreements, and the other alter doesn't like them and discards them.  I know DID is rare, but I found this article pretty interesting:  

www.BPD.about.com/od/relatedconditions/a/DID.htm  

You might want to check it out, too, as it talks about the concurrence of DID and BPD in some people.  Here are a couple of excerpts about DID that I found particularly interesting:

Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness

People with DID often report the experience of severe physical and sexual abuse during childhood and also frequently have concurrent symptoms of borderline personality disorder (BPD), including self-harming behaviors, impulsivity and instability in relationships. This may be related to the fact that childhood abuse is a risk factor both for dissociative identity disorder and borderline personality disorder.

My bf suspects he could have been abused (and acts like it), and we can check off all the other items, too.  

Still not sure what my game plan is.  My T friend questioned my comment that I'm not ready to talk to him, that I'm too angry.  She said something about maybe he needs to see I'm angry, and is there a real need to shield him from my anger?  I'm just afraid I'll dysregulate.  

Good luck w/your new agreement.  I hope it sticks.  What about some compensation tools?  Like reminders they can put into their cell phones?  Or sticky-notes?  Or something!

[LetItBe]

Here is something else that might be helpful regarding BPD and dissociation:  www.medhelp.org/posts/Borderline-Personality-Disorder/Memory-loss-Dissociation/show/737358

[arabella]

It has definitely crossed my mind that he could have really forgotten.  Due to the fact this agreement came about because of an ongoing issue that goes waaay back -- and the agreement is something that's been discussed repeatedly -- my T friend was saying last night that she has a hard time believing that he doesn't remember what he agreed to do.  However, tonight she said she supposes that if he has DID, maybe one alter comes out and creates agreements, and the other alter doesn't like them and discards them. 

***

Still not sure what my game plan is.  My T friend questioned my comment that I'm not ready to talk to him, that I'm too angry.  She said something about maybe he needs to see I'm angry, and is there a real need to shield him from my anger?  I'm just afraid I'll dysregulate. 

Good luck w/your new agreement.  I hope it sticks.  What about some compensation tools?  Like reminders they can put into their cell phones?  Or sticky-notes?  Or something!

First off - thank you for those links! I am pretty much 100% certain I'm dealing with dissociation. It really is like talking to different people. And his usually excellent memory is like a sieve now.

The first agreement that H and I had was a long discussion. Then I emailed it to him. He emailed back confirming it was a "good idea" and "very reasonable" and to thank me for coming up with a plan for us. We have discussed it briefly, multiple times, in the few weeks since then. Our new agreement is not quite entirely aligned with our first agreement (close, but it requires me to 'give' a little, fine). I mentioned this to H. He said he: a) doesn't remember the details of the first agreement, and b) doesn't remember ever agreeing to our first agreement (despite his email confirming it!) WHAT? So, I wouldn't be hard pressed to believe that your pwBPD managed to forget. Mind blowing as that is. 

I get the concept of not shielding him... . But there is no point in going off on a rant if you haven't calmed down enough to know what you really want to say. Plus, if you do believe that he actually forgot/dissociated then how does that affect your reaction? Are you still angry if he really has no clue?

As for compensation tools... . I tried the email - that clearly didn't work. I'm considering writing a manifesto, using a black Sharpie, on his arm. Is that too extreme? I'm worried stickies on his computer will randomly cause him to dysregulate by reminding him of things when he's trying to calm himself down too. Ugh.

[LetItBe]

I get the concept of not shielding him... . But there is no point in going off on a rant if you haven't calmed down enough to know what you really want to say. Plus, if you do believe that he actually forgot/dissociated then how does that affect your reaction? Are you still angry if he really has no clue?

As for compensation tools... . I tried the email - that clearly didn't work. I'm considering writing a manifesto, using a black Sharpie, on his arm. Is that too extreme? I'm worried stickies on his computer will randomly cause him to dysregulate by reminding him of things when he's trying to calm himself down too. Ugh.

You are right -- I need to get clear on what I want to say before I talk to him.  I think my T friend (who normally gives people more rope than they deserve and is usually the eternal optimist when it comes to the abilities of people to change and heal) has run out of patience and become angry with him, thus the question about, "Is there a real reason to shield him from your anger?"

I have my doubts that he truly just "forgot."  Only a few days before he broke our agreement, another issue had come up (where I'd simply asked him if he had something on his mind, and he got VERY defensive) and he'd said, "I can't meet your needs!"  He backed that comment up with his behavior.

If he actually forgot, then I'm very concerned for him and his memory loss.  Like you said, his usually excellent memory is like a sieve now.  That would be up to him to address in T if he wants to.  I can't stay with him if he's not remorseful and not committed to making a real effort to work on his destructive behavior.  Whatever he's doing now is clearly NOT working.

Yes, my bf has one of my hand-written requests that he agreed to in his home.  Certainly, if he came across it and read it again, he'd understand one reason why I'm angry?

[coasterhusband]

First of all, I relate to this very deeply, NonGF! (As I'm sure most of us do... .   ) I completely feel your frustration and uncertainty.

Maybe approach these situations first with some validating questions.  "You seem preoccupied/tense/upset right now.  What's on your mind?"       

I second this suggestion in a big way. You're asking not as much to help them, if your experience and mindset is anything like mine, but to help eliminate your own stresses and concerns. You probably grew up thinking it was "up to you to solve" your mom's issues, and that is carrying through to this relationship.

It's hard to do this, but you just have to decide to do it and then stick to it. Create a swear jar kind of thing where every time you ask "How are you feeling" or some variation, you put a dollar in the jar. You'll see over time that you do it too much And it's a good motivator to remind yourself to stop making it worse

Good luck!

[arabella]

I have my doubts that he truly just "forgot."  Only a few days before he broke our agreement, another issue had come up (where I'd simply asked him if he had something on his mind, and he got VERY defensive) and he'd said, "I can't meet your needs!"  He backed that comment up with his behavior.

If he actually forgot, then I'm very concerned for him and his memory loss.  Like you said, his usually excellent memory is like a sieve now.  That would be up to him to address in T if he wants to.  I can't stay with him if he's not remorseful and not committed to making a real effort to work on his destructive behavior.  Whatever he's doing now is clearly NOT working.

Yes, my bf has one of my hand-written requests that he agreed to in his home.  Certainly, if he came across it and read it again, he'd understand one reason why I'm angry?

Well... . What if his outburst a few days before triggered a dissociative episode and, thus, the 'forgetting'? It's not the same as actually forgetting but it has many of the same implications. Then the trick is for him to figure out how to make those episodes stop - if he's even aware of them. And who knows how it will go if you try to tell him. But, you're right, it does have to change - this isn't working. Perhaps your T friend can offer suggestions for dealing with dissociation? Or even how to approach him about it? Although, if she's fed up with it you might need another source of info for that.

Do you think he would understand the note? Or do you think it would be too abstract or disconnected for him now? My H writes himself notes sometimes, but they lose their meaning for him. When I read a note to myself I connect the words with my meaning and the emotion behind it - I'm not sure our pwBPD are capable of doing that. There is often a real disconnect between my expectations (and what is just normal) and what happens with my H. It boggles me on a regular basis!