How to stop being invalidating?

[Chosen]

I have read the Lessons on here.  I know what words/ phrases are invalidating.  I know I should consider feelings first and they are always right, etc.

But I keep on failing!  Just last night, uBPDh was saying that a certain lady we know is pushy, always pushing him to do stuff he doesn't like.  And me, being quite ill with the flu and slow, but mainly being incredibly stupid and not mindful, just told him something like "in my view, she cannot push you to do something you don't want to to do.  You need to express more clearly what you want and just not do it."  He then walked away and said a bit sarcastically, "Thanks for your opinion." (Which considering him, is nice already since he didn't rage).  Then when we went to bed, even though I was still ill and coughing my lungs out, he didn't express any care or anything, just said that he's used to me being cold and uncaring, that it's unpleasant to have such a wife but he's used to it.  Then he shut up.

Today he didn't say anything about this yet but I know I need to be tread carefully these few days, otherwise everything will add to his negative feeling and who knows if he'll turn the complains into a raging episode?

But the point is, after I said it, it took me a while to realised I was being incredibly insensitive and of course a million things went through my mind as to how I could have responded better at that time… but that’s not the point!  I can’t go back and can’t say the stuff again!  How can I possibly practice so that I can be more validating?  Any practical tips as to what helped you put the Lessons to practice?

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[Blazing Star]

Ah be gentle on yourself Chosen. You are ill, being validating is tough at the best of times, let alone when you are sick.

We have all had the best intentions to be a validating machine, and then bam out slips something invalidating before we realise!

For me some things that have helped:

- practicing on others, in situations where I am not emotionally invested - people I interact with at the shops, friends, family etc. I remind myself that I am going to practice it, and then I try. (this also helps me to take note of the times where I have an urge to give my opinion, rather than just validate! and then I can look at where that urge is coming from). The theory is the more I practice and it becomes a habit the easier it will be with my pwBPD!

- breathing through his comments and repeating in my head "validate, validate, validate"

- the book "I don't have to make everything all better"

Take care of yourself! Hope you feel better soon.

Love Blazing Star

[Chosen]

Thanks Blazing Star.  The problem with me is that my mouth works much faster than my brain 

[Chosen]

Oh and by the way, even though I'm sick, obviously I'm not as important (and probably deserve it too, for being insensitive), he sent me an email saying how he knew, years ago, that having a partner = having no partner, he can't count on me, etc. 

I suppose that's the "punishment" I get 

[arabella]

Then when we went to bed, even though I was still ill and coughing my lungs out, he didn't express any care or anything, just said that he's used to me being cold and uncaring, that it's unpleasant to have such a wife but he's used to it.  Then he shut up.

Kind of interesting... .   This sounds like projection to me along with the blaming. What do you think?

I'm hoping some veterans chime in on this thread. I have a lot of trouble validating in the heat of the moment and I could use some tips/tricks! Also, I'm wondering if it's possible to go back and minimize the damage from an invalidating moment (apologize, validate after the fact, etc)? Does this just reopen the wound and/or act as a trigger? I've had it work for me on occasion... .  

[daylily]

The problem with me is that my mouth works much faster than my brain 

Thanks for this thread Chosen!  I was thinking the same thing myself today.  I have the best of intentions but things just go so horribly wrong.  At least you have pinpointed where you were invalidating.  Lately my H and I have an argument and I'm so overwhelmed and confused afterward that I don't even know where it went awry.

  Daylily

[byasliver]

I am so sorry you are feeling ill, Chosen! Hope you are feeling better soon!

As for being invalidating, one thing I am learning here (and yes, I'm still new and not a veteran) is that you cannot control him and you are not responsible for his feelings. There was nothing wrong with what you said. His inability to be nonreactive to it is HIS issue. Yes, if we chose to be in a r/s with someone with BPD, making efforts to use the communication tools will make life easier for all but you are still human. You can't expect yourself to get it right 100% of the time. Just do the best you can and hope for the best... .   and, don't let his reaction make you feel guilty.

[briefcase]

How can I possibly practice so that I can be more validating?  Any practical tips as to what helped you put the Lessons to practice?

Here are few ideas that really helped me:

(1)  Practice on other people.  Validation isn't just for pwBPD.  Validate the kids, the grocery store checkout clerk, your neighbors, your work colleagues, etc.  Get into the habit of being validating, in general, in your conversations with people.

(2)  Validate "positive" emotions too.  Validation also isn't just for the "negative" emotions like anger, frustration, pain, and sorrow.  It can also be used when your partner (or anyone really) is feeling joy, excitement, peace, contentment, etc.

(3) Practice consciously.  Make a conscious effort when you speak to someone to really hear the emotion behind the words being spoken.  Think to yourself - what is this person likely feeling right now?  And then validate that.  It requires good listening skills, patience and practice.  

(4) Know your limits.  Sometimes we can't, shouldn't, or don't feel up to validating.  Maybe something is invalid, maybe you're too tired or hungry, feeling distracted, etc.  In these instances its best to not worry about being validating, and just focus on not saying anything that is invalidating.  Think of it as the "neutral" ground between validating and invalidating.  Sometimes your goal is to just not make anything worse.  

(5) Give yourself some time.  Its like learning a new language.  You aren't going to be "fluent" right away.  Go easy on yourself when you make a mistake, and we all make mistakes.  

The validation workshop is very good here.  I am a big fan of the Fruzetti video in the workshop.  I watch it a couple of times a year.  

[TigerEye]

The problem is is that it's only natural to give an opinion when asked, under 'normal' circumstances your answer would have been perfectly acceptable to a 'normal' person, appreciated even as being supportive, it's what we've grown up doing. But as we know, these aren't 'normal' circumstances and these aren't 'normal' people. We are having to go back to school and learn new techniques without the aid of a text book or the guiding hand of a teacher, we're effectively on our own (apart from the good people here  ) so yes, we're going to make mistakes, we will slip up, and our mouths do work quicker, we're having to unlearn a natural reaction and replace it with something new on the fly. So don't beat yourself up Chosen, concentrate on getting yourself better. Dealing with this stuff when you're not feeling well is rrrrubbish, what's wrong with a little empathy and compassion, it really shouldn't be much to ask for? (it's alright, I know the answer to that one - we ain't getting any!) So a   from me, hope you feel better soon.

I like Blazing's suggestion about trying it out on others. I find I struggle in that generally a conversation just flows, you don't find yourself analyzing everything you say before you open your mouth, it's almost subconscious, light speed. But at this stage of learning to validate effectively that's exactly what we're having to do, hear the words, hear what's being said, listen for the emotions, hear what's not being said, work out a reply, check it for errors, change it until it's seems right and deliver - it makes my head spin. Trying to do all that and to get it to sound natural is a tough thing to do, I think at this stage I would try it out with friends where I can explain to them what I'm doing, because it it isn't natural yet, and I think they will think I'm being a bit odd! From there I could move on to strangers, once I've got my confidence up.

I do think we have a natural urge to express an opinion or feeling, and we are looking for validation for our thoughts, can't deny it, it feels good when some one says "yeah, you're right" or "I hadn't thought about it like that, that makes sense", if they don't, you can always JADE away happily together until you either reach an agreement or accept that you agree to disagree, pass on knowledge and experience or learn from another, in everyday conversations with everyday people there's no harm done - unless you get in to an argument about it.

I find learning to disengage easier than learning to validate - you don't have to say anything  . With that in mind -

Lately my H and I have an argument... .  

Daylily, right here is where I feel it went awry.

I can also recommend the Fruzetti video, I watch it now and then to remind myself of the principles.

[Clearmind]

Being sick does not help.

Great suggestions in this thread already! With my partner, I found it difficult because when I paused and listened to my own thinking, when he was relaying a story – I was already finding ways to fix it or finding ways to change his mind about something. I would do the same thing with my BPD father.

I believe it’s important to pause and check into our own thinking, because it will naturally place a bias on what someone else is conveying. OK, maybe the woman is pushy, maybe she isn’t – either way we don’t need to change our partners/anyone’s mind about it.

We can acknowledge how it must be frustrating for them. If we thinking how we fix it to avoid an outburst, it’s possible we are also coming from a place of defensiveness.

In addition to the wonderful suggestions here: maybe practice some mindfulness (being present) and tune into your own thinking when others are relaying a story to you. We are not actively listening or actively being present for another person if we are drifting into fix it mode.

Not listening is invalidating in itself.

Its natural to feel on high alert in our relationships - however - it can cause us to react rather than respond (tend to be more defensive).

Wonderful book I Don’t Have to Make Everything All Better – quick and easy read. The book provides some simple one liners to use when you want to validate.

[Empathy101]

I like Blazing's suggestion about trying it out on others. I find I struggle in that generally a conversation just flows, you don't find yourself analyzing everything you say before you open your mouth, it's almost subconscious, light speed.

In my experience, it's very difficult to go into random conversations with the thought "I'm going to try to be validating to this person". Realistically, that person needs to be sharing an experience (of some sort) with you. A cashier at a grocery store likely won't give you that opportunity. However, say they were to crack open a new roll of change and a bunch falls on the floor. Well, there's an opportunity because one has the potential to see cues like a sigh, comment or facial expression that allows an opening for a form of validation.

Additionally, I find it very difficult to validate people who continue invalidating me at the same time. There ARE people who are hopelessly stuck in that negative-loaded mindset and I think all the validation in the world isn't going to change them and endless efforts to try the impossible will ultimately become very invalidating to the person who is trying.

Validation is a great thing, something that I firmly believe should be taught in every school in the world, but I feel there can be a point where validating yourself becomes more important than validating the other person.

Dr. Alan E. Fruzzetti, an expert in validation, has a lot of material available online (I think somewhere on this site as well) plus he's a published author (The High-Conflict Couple is one title that comes to mind). Validation is tricky - especially when trying to be validating to someone with emotional dysregulation.

briefcase wrote about validating positive emotions as well as negative emotions. That's good advice but I think that advice could be misinterpreted as well. You cannot validate the invalid and it is very easy to do just that. So while you want to encourage that the other person has the right to feel an emotion, that there is nothing wrong with feeling it and that you understand their emotional state, you also have to be mindful that you're not accidentally 'validating' in a way that suggests something you're not actually saying.

If you got held up at work and get home slightly later than usual and your SO is dysregulated because of it, you certainly wouldn't want to convey a message of "It's okay that you got angry with me when I didn't get home exactly when you'd like me to be home." That would be improper and damaging. That would be validating an irrational idea that nothing can occur which could ever delay you and that you are responsible, bad and hurting your SO if you are late. However, if you can properly convey that you understand how one could be become concerned and worried because it happened unexpectedly, then you're helping validate what they feel without making the mistake of accidentally linking the trigger and yourself to what they feel.

It's tough and can often be very frustrating because we wished we were better or it or knew exactly what to do and say at any given moment. Unfortunately that's an unrealistically high expectation to place on ourselves. All we can do is the best we can at that time - and strive to improve.

[waverider]

First of all the more you know about validating the more you will be aware when you did less than a perfect job, and you will, as non of us are perfect. So you have to accept that sometimes you will get it wrong. If you knew less you would have been unaware of getting it wrong. Validating is always a fine line as you have to do it on the run and reactionary, you dont usually have the benefit of drafting up a reply first, and often they simply dont want to be validated and the best response in the world wont work.

You know in this case he was really complaining his own inability to express his wishes to the other person effectively and you just told him he needs to do the very thing he was struggling with, easy slip.

I am slowly starting to learn to offer less opinions on how to fix things and rather ask questions about how they think they would like things to be different. That is prompt them to work stuff out themselves, if indeed they are looking for answers rather than just a vent.

Then at times I just cant be bothered and I just say the first thing that pops into my head and if it goes down badly then thats just too bad. Safe in the knowledge that I am a better and more considerate person than I used to be, so whatever I say that may be "wrong" is unlikely to be all that bad, so I dont feel too guilty about having an "off duty" moment.

Often they just want you to be "wrong", so allow yourself to be, and they can get it out of their system over something trivial.

We are good caring folks, we are not flawless angels. Dont let their disorder make you feel guilty.

[rosannadanna]

Hi chosen

Honestly, which one would anybody rather hear:

"in my view, she cannot push you to do something you don't want to to do.  You need to express more clearly what you want and just not do it." 

or

"That sounds like a really frustrating situation."

I think everyone would rather be validated than told what we need to do.  It gets our hackles up and leaves us feeling unheard.

But you recognize this already, so that's great!  You said you were sick and not at your best, so be kind to yourself.  Also, don't be perfectionistic and obsess about it.  He will forget about it, especially if you don't try to do damage control by rehashing.  I find that makes it worse.

You have gotten some great feedback.  The only thing I would add:

Simple and quick:  Really listen and pause to let him have all the time to get everything out.  Then either 1.  reflect back what you heard him say (simple) or 2. reflect back with a feeling identification added (a little more complex) ex.  "You are feeling pushed into doing things?  That must be frustrating."

One of the mods said earlier "less is more".  I totally agree.  Along with the mantra that blazing star mentioned "validate, validate, validate", maybe another one could be ":)on't give an opinion unless it's asked for."  It really does take practice.

You have great insight so you will get better!

Take care.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all,

I often found that if my partner was spoiling for a fight, that no amount of validating was going to make any difference.

And you are right. I too, am only going to validate to a point, I can (on occasions) listen all day to his ranting, cursing, aggression, abusiveness, (at any rate, I read somewhere here that we have to detach from a lot of venting they do, because they really don't mean some of the extreme stuff they say), but I have my limits, and when I say that this is enough now, and I am unable to listen anymore, and do not wish to listen, (and he ignores me 20 times), then he is going to hear the truth, whether he likes it or not.

Often times because I finally get angry, and all my good intentions go right out the window then.

I have said to my partner, that he cannot expect me to support him financially week after week, offer me fairy dust, broken promises, give me a hard time about living apart and long distance, instigate breakups, silent treatment, relationship troubles, and then continually rant on about how it is everyone else's fault. I have said that other people may not help, with their input/added stress but I am done with blaming, I am more interested in only changing the things I can, and leave well enough alone to the things I cannot. Quite capable of saying NO, stepping back, and firmly but fairly saying that I am unable to help with that/this one.

To complain about being apart, and having no quality time together, and then when I continually make the effort in all ways to make that happen, he ruins it by dysregulating all day, is not fair.

I have asked him repeatedly for six months now, to come for a walk with me, he always promises to, but does not do so. Yet, I am expected to take an interest in all the things he does, go the places he wants to go, and it seems unfair that he is not willing to compromise.

And the energy that is wasted living under the ever present threat of further conflict, is energy that would be better spent on other things, (like optimism and gratitude for example).

Today, so far, things have gone OK. He is dysregulating, but not as bad, tomorrow will tell, when he has no money, nor smokes left. I am scheduled to travel there when I finish work tomorrow, but I am anxious about it too, don't think I can face his misery again, (have enough of my own troubles thanks!) And whilst it is not about money for me, and I know he makes some effort to help himself, he is not doing enough in my opinion... . and seems to think himself victim enough to warrant it, whilst taking advantage of those who love him.

[waverider]

Hi all,

I often found that if my partner was spoiling for a fight, that no amount of validating was going to make any difference.

And you are right. I too, am only going to validate to a point, I can (on occasions) listen all day to his ranting, cursing, aggression, abusiveness, (at any rate, I read somewhere here that we have to detach from a lot of venting they do, because they really don't mean some of the extreme stuff they say), but I have my limits, and when I say that this is enough now, and I am unable to listen anymore, and do not wish to listen, (and he ignores me 20 times), then he is going to hear the truth, whether he likes it or not.

Often times because I finally get angry, and all my good intentions go right out the window then.

I have said to my partner, that he cannot expect me to support him financially week after week, offer me fairy dust, broken promises, give me a hard time about living apart and long distance, instigate breakups, silent treatment, relationship troubles, and then continually rant on about how it is everyone else's fault. I have said that other people may not help, with their input/added stress but I am done with blaming, I am more interested in only changing the things I can, and leave well enough alone to the things I cannot. Quite capable of saying NO, stepping back, and firmly but fairly saying that I am unable to help with that/this one.

To complain about being apart, and having no quality time together, and then when I continually make the effort in all ways to make that happen, he ruins it by dysregulating all day, is not fair.

I have asked him repeatedly for six months now, to come for a walk with me, he always promises to, but does not do so. Yet, I am expected to take an interest in all the things he does, go the places he wants to go, and it seems unfair that he is not willing to compromise.

And the energy that is wasted living under the ever present threat of further conflict, is energy that would be better spent on other things, (like optimism and gratitude for example).

Today, so far, things have gone OK. He is dysregulating, but not as bad, tomorrow will tell, when he has no money, nor smokes left. I am scheduled to travel there when I finish work tomorrow, but I am anxious about it too, don't think I can face his misery again, (have enough of my own troubles thanks!) And whilst it is not about money for me, and I know he makes some effort to help himself, he is not doing enough in my opinion... . and seems to think himself victim enough to warrant it, whilst taking advantage of those who love him.

I think it is the unjustified sense of entitlement that is niggling you.

That is a hard one to overcome, blocking it only works for a while, and Acceptance, though necessary if you are to continue, is very difficult to completely achieve.

That sense of entitlement takes professional long term therapy to completely reverse, as it is ingrained in the personality

[Grey Kitty]

Chosen, you have already heard things from people who are better at validating than I am, but I do have a couple ideas for you:

1. Practice. Doing it in real-time during a real conversation is one way to practice... .   If you do it in writing, you have more time to "work on it" before you "speak". You can practice validation here--did you notice how nicely Blazing Star validated you?

Ah be gentle on yourself Chosen. You are ill, being validating is tough at the best of times, let alone when you are sick.

We have all had the best intentions to be a validating machine, and then bam out slips something invalidating before we realise!

I might add that in addition to being good validation... .   it is very true as well. 

And here's my second suggestion:

Try to be aware of the limitations of your own mental state.

Sometimes I'm happy, peaceful, and loving, and really feel good and validating is (relatively) easy.

 Sometimes I'm not. I might be tired, cranky, ill, or depressed. I might have just been through a difficult or stressful encounter. Or perhaps what I'm hearing and need to validate is something that I just tend to take personally.

When I'm in the wrong mental state, I know I'm not gonna validate well. I can't make things much better. So I look to stop making them worse instead. I make sure I don't JADE. I may directly say I don't want to have a difficult situation, as I am afraid I'd say something I would regret.

So even if I can't validate, I at least do "damage control"... .   and come back to validate more when I'm on my game again!

[waverider]

So even if I can't validate, I at least do "damage control"... .   and come back to validate more when I'm on my game again!

So true effective validation can only be done when your heads in the right place. Luckily the more you look after you, then the more often you are in that place. But you wont always be, accept that, as it's ok.

[Chosen]

Thanks all for your wonderful suggestions and (validation) here! 

Of course from hindsight it is much easier to tell what went wrong, and know that I probably wasn't fully mindful of the situation (and definitely not his emotions) during the conversation.  I guess I also learnt that I don't know myself so well, sometimes I can't tell I have certain limitations! 

I have been practising "don't offer an opinion/ suggestion/ solution unless it's asked" for some time, but find it difficult especially when I'm not consciously reminding myself to do it- it's not yet second nature to me, when in so many times it is so helpful (in work situations too, my boss has some sort of psychological disorder)!  Need more practise definitely.