How does a pwBPD's control behaviour in front of others

[mother in law]

How is it possible for BPD's to control their rages and disregulated thought processes in front of friends and acquaintances but not for family? Is this a choice they make?

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[mother in law]

Thank you for your reply, I do not want this to become a witch hunt for BPD's and I do recognise that most of us will hold back from anger with a friend or stranger however most of us also do not "act" at being such a nice person when in the company of non BPD's and almost immediately go into an abusive rage when those non BPD's depart the scene, as is my experience with my BPD relative. I guess I am interested in the psychology of if they know it is unacceptable towards others ie friends and strangers why don't they know it is unacceptable towards family?

[jedicloak]

They do it, because they can. They wouldn't do it with a police officer cause there are consequences. With us, what are we gonna do? Most of the time, get upset, frustrated... . maybe yell... . but those aren't consequences... . those are inconveniences... . and not enough of an incentive to do something different.

I'm VERY curious to hear what more experienced members will say about this.

[Chosen]

I'm also really interested in what input others have.  I wonder if this is a conscious choice.

My H would also rage if others attacked him or did something he does not approve of- although, of course, he doesn't rage at those people; he will rage at me.

I'd hate to think of them as conscious abusers, yet it really seems as though they choose who to direct their rage at... .

[waverider]

They have no real depth of self, so they rely heavily on mirroring others. This is what happened when you first met them, during the idealization stage.

Of course endlessly taking on a facade takes its toll. It even does when we have to do it for whatever reason. But they have to maintain it for prolong periods. So they let the vent out when they are in the "safe" environment of those close to them, us. Why us? Because it has to be someone and we are most likely to accommodate it.

Higher functioning pwBPD can narrow that avenue quite finely. Lower functioning pwBPD let it slip in a less narrow focus and eventually fall out with anyone they have prolonged contact with. Hence they can't hold a job or maintain any real friendships or acquaintances.

[Chosen]

Just a point of interest: my uBPDh mirrors me so much so that sometimes he would text me "How hungry are you?" when we're discussing where to go for dinner, and I would reply "xyz (whatever that is).  How about you?", and he would copy and paste my "xyz" answer directly to reply me.  I used to think he was being lazy or whatever, but now I think it's just because he thought (maybe subconsciously) that since I gave that answer, it would be most acceptable for me.

He can't even tell me whether he is hungry or not!

[arabella]

My dBPDh doesn't really 'rage' so I can't speak to that extreme end of the spectrum. I have asked him in the past how he manages to be nice to people he can't stand but gets so mad at me sometimes just for little stuff. He said because he doesn't care about them so he just lies. And he doesn't care about them going forward so he essentially blocks them out entirely. He won't complain at a restaurant because he doesn't want to have to have an ongoing conversation with the waitress. Same goes for any sort of 'stranger' in any situation - he mostly tries to avoid interaction or, if he has to interact, he keeps it as minimal as possible. He won't call in a pizza order or call to make an appointment either, for the same reason, it stresses him out to have to deal with someone on the phone.

So, apparently, I'm supposed to be flattered that he 'snaps' at me. It means he cares about me.

[Chosen]

arabella,

What you H said may well me true of my H, even though he never told me in those terms.  He did hint that him snapping at me (although he doesn't think so) is just because he cares about me. 

I rather wish he cares less.

[eeyore]

BPD isn't a choice.  Nor is the switching of their feelings-- they can't control their feelings.  Sometimes I feel cold when it's really hot outside.  It could be a breezy day and I find the breeze chilly.  But that's how I feel.  Just like sometimes I can't regulate my temperature, a BPD can't regulate their feelings.  The BPD acts out with their partner or family because that is how s/he feels at that moment in time.  And there's not making sense that given the same circumstances the BPD feels one way and completely the opposite another time.  I call that trying to make sense out of crazy. 

[lost007]

I don't know how they do it but they do. It's a gift. It's ingenious. It can't be duplicated if you don't have the disease. Mine could screw another man and rage on me as if my fault. And convince anyone with ears that I was a sicko. In the end it got harder and she cracked in front of others a tad. Primarily she raged on me. It was amazing and painful to be on the receiving end. Horrifying at times. I have been separated six months. Divorced a month. In tatters. To them it's as natural as drinking water or taking a breath. Why do people with diabetes need insulin?  Because its a disease. Why does stage 4 lung cancer kill?  Because it does. It is a disease with symptoms and findings that are somewhat predictable. It's fatal. BPD is the same. More like the cancer. It's going to do what it does. There is no insulin or chemo. It can't really be stopped. Rage-why?  That's what it is. It's what it does. It's devastating.

[dodocreek]

So, apparently, I'm supposed to be flattered that he 'snaps' at me. It means he cares about me.

Yes. This sort of radical re-interpretation is sometimes jaw-dropping. The most extreme I ever experienced was her response when we decided to start living together:

"Well. I suppose I won't do any better"

I questioned her about this years later when the co-dependency started to lose some of its hold on me. She claimed that I should have interpreted this as meaning that I was the best thing since sliced bread and that I was uncharitable to doubt her sincerity. So many  over so much time - what a fool I have been!

Going back to the original topic. Everyone else thinks that she is wonderful because she generally is ... . with them. She is definitely able to regulate according to audience. I could not say to what extent this is conscious or not.

[Magick]

So, apparently, I'm supposed to be flattered that he 'snaps' at me. It means he cares about me.

Yes. This sort of radical re-interpretation is sometimes jaw-dropping. The most extreme I ever experienced was her response when we decided to start living together.

It would be radical to say someone should be flattered by the behavior. That's certainly untrue. The portion about them doing it to the people whom they care for most/are most intimate with, is absolutely true.

The emotions pwBPD feel aren't any different that what any other feeling human being will feel. So think about it this way: Who hurts you the most if they say something insulting? A co-worker who just started a week ago or your partner?

Barring some kind of disordered thinking, you're going to say your partner. And you say your partner because there are certain vulnerabilities exposed to that partner when you open yourself up to a relationship with them. That same fact applies to pwBPD.

Why do you some people foolishly assume they can control reactions? Well that's pretty easy to do when you're not cursed with the thinking or emotional intensity they have, isn't it? In order to believe this is controllable we then have to assert that is a fact that any event/trigger a pwBPD encounters will have the exact same intensity and stir up the exact same thoughts regardless of how well or how little they know the person and regardless of how much or how little they care for the person. How probable do you think that is?

Part of the problem here (as it was when my previous nick was still working) is the amount of people who project a BPD dx on a partner who is likely suffering from something else!

Here's an example:

Mine could screw another man and rage on me as if my fault.

Short of that person screaming "I don't think you ever loved me!" (and you assuming that is them trying to blame you for their actions), that scenario is very unlikely to be someone suffering from just BPD.

If they did have BPD and did scream that at you, that's not them actually blame-shifting but rather someone filled with shame who is spelling out how their disordered mind thinks; which is this case would be that the impulsive act directly related to coping with the feeling of being unloved/unlovable.

It doesn't excuse the behavior, of course. Choices have consequences even for disordered people who may not have seen the choices in that moment. That's something they have to fix.

But there is no innate "control" of this disorder. Think about how ridiculous that sounds? lost007 put it nicely in regards to cancer. Can a person with cancer just choose to control its rate of growth? The only thing a person with BPD can control is their reactions to these incredibly intense emotions and they have to be taught how to do that. For many, years of abuse and invalidation have them virtually hardwired to react certain ways. This has even been proven via fMRI scans.

I understand a lot of people come here looking for answers and they often come here stuck in emotional-thinking (which is exactly why BPD's make bad situations even worse with bad choices) but c'mon... .

I know some of the people who suffer with this can be very abusive in their behaviors (most people would end those relationships very quick) but these are people who desperately want to be loved and appreciated and they look toward their partner to finally give them that love and free them from all this horrible things they've felt throughout their life. Is it really that difficult to understand why many of the behaviors manifest more around their loved ones? The want to feel safe with those people, there's more intimacy and trust there than other relationships, and whatever triggered them is causing them to feel they are currently unsafe around someone they desperately hoped would finally make them feel safe. It's pretty simple.

And SO's are the only people who deal with this. Many pwBPD ruin great friendships with longtime friends because the emotions with close relationships are just too intense for them to effectively cope without proper treatment and skill learning.

[Magick]

She is definitely able to regulate according to audience. I could not say to what extent this is conscious or not.

Wrong. She's better able to cope with dysregulation according to audience - not because of the audience but because the intensity of the trigger will be related to who that audience is (strangers vs lovers, cousins vs siblings, friends vs coworker, boss vs parents, etc.)

[almost789]

Person's with BPD have a duality. They have one part of their brain that is logical and intellectual this is the part that aquaintences get to see. Then there is their emotional side, this is the side that people they care about get to see. Its not about them making the concious choice to act normal infront of aquaintences, it is that they don't have emotions for aquaintences, thus the emotional part of their brain is not activated when dealing with these people thus you get the normal logical reactions. It is only when their emotions are triggered that their symptoms come out.

[waverider]

Person's with BPD have a duality. They have one part of their brain that is logical and intellectual this is the part that aquaintences get to see. Then there is their emotional side, this is the side that people they care about get to see. Its not about them making the concious choice to act normal infront of aquaintences, it is that they don't have emotions for aquaintences, thus the emotional part of their brain is not activated when dealing with these people thus you get the normal logical reactions. It is only when their emotions are triggered that their symptoms come out.

"outsiders" can trigger their emotions, but often they can refrain from reacting. This then comes out in the presence of those close to them, even though the trigger was the "outsider".

Eg Partner gets dumped on because of something their Boss did.

My partners family are one of the biggest triggers for her, yet she will not lash out at them, as she is afraid they will simply cut contact. The fear of abandonment, and desire to be accepted, is great enough to prevent reaction. She does not have a close bond with her family, so does not feel secure enough to let it out.  With complete outsiders (eg general public strangers) she can have a short fuse.

You could say restraint can be exercised with those she wants to impress, but who she does not feel totally secure with. Another example would be work boss, but not co workers

[jonnyz]

BPD isn't a choice.  Nor is the switching of their feelings-- they can't control their feelings.  Sometimes I feel cold when it's really hot outside.  It could be a breezy day and I find the breeze chilly.  But that's how I feel.  Just like sometimes I can't regulate my temperature, a BPD can't regulate their feelings.  The BPD acts out with their partner or family because that is how s/he feels at that moment in time.  And there's not making sense that given the same circumstances the BPD feels one way and completely the opposite another time.  I call that trying to make sense out of crazy. 

   Thank you  for the courage to post here. It is refreshing to hear from someone who has BPD.  Thank you.   

[jonnyz]

Person's with BPD have a duality. They have one part of their brain that is logical and intellectual this is the part that aquaintences get to see. Then there is their emotional side, this is the side that people they care about get to see. Its not about them making the concious choice to act normal infront of aquaintences, it is that they don't have emotions for aquaintences, thus the emotional part of their brain is not activated when dealing with these people thus you get the normal logical reactions. It is only when their emotions are triggered that their symptoms come out.

"outsiders" can trigger their emotions, but often they can refrain from reacting. This then comes out in the presence of those close to them, even though the trigger was the "outsider".

Eg Partner gets dumped on because of something their Boss did.

My partners family are one of the biggest triggers for her, yet she will not lash out at them, as she is afraid they will simply cut contact. The fear of abandonment, and desire to be accepted, is great enough to prevent reaction. She does not have a close bond with her family, so does not feel secure enough to let it out.  With complete outsiders (eg general public strangers) she can have a short fuse.

You could say restraint can be exercised with those she wants to impress, but who she does not feel totally secure with. Another example would be work boss, but not co workers

MY Ex always seem more friendly and attentive to people and strangers that came into the gas station and than basically ignore me her boyfriend  when I was standing right there. Never did understand that.

[waverider]

Person's with BPD have a duality. They have one part of their brain that is logical and intellectual this is the part that aquaintences get to see. Then there is their emotional side, this is the side that people they care about get to see. Its not about them making the concious choice to act normal infront of aquaintences, it is that they don't have emotions for aquaintences, thus the emotional part of their brain is not activated when dealing with these people thus you get the normal logical reactions. It is only when their emotions are triggered that their symptoms come out.

"outsiders" can trigger their emotions, but often they can refrain from reacting. This then comes out in the presence of those close to them, even though the trigger was the "outsider".

Eg Partner gets dumped on because of something their Boss did.

My partners family are one of the biggest triggers for her, yet she will not lash out at them, as she is afraid they will simply cut contact. The fear of abandonment, and desire to be accepted, is great enough to prevent reaction. She does not have a close bond with her family, so does not feel secure enough to let it out.  With complete outsiders (eg general public strangers) she can have a short fuse.

You could say restraint can be exercised with those she wants to impress, but who she does not feel totally secure with. Another example would be work boss, but not co workers

MY Ex always seem more friendly and attentive to people and strangers that came into the gas station and than basically ignore me her boyfriend  when I was standing right there. Never did understand that.

Sales trick, they are new 'customers' to feed her need to impress, you have already been sold.

[jonnyz]

Person's with BPD have a duality. They have one part of their brain that is logical and intellectual this is the part that aquaintences get to see. Then there is their emotional side, this is the side that people they care about get to see. Its not about them making the concious choice to act normal infront of aquaintences, it is that they don't have emotions for aquaintences, thus the emotional part of their brain is not activated when dealing with these people thus you get the normal logical reactions. It is only when their emotions are triggered that their symptoms come out.

"outsiders" can trigger their emotions, but often they can refrain from reacting. This then comes out in the presence of those close to them, even though the trigger was the "outsider".

Eg Partner gets dumped on because of something their Boss did.

My partners family are one of the biggest triggers for her, yet she will not lash out at them, as she is afraid they will simply cut contact. The fear of abandonment, and desire to be accepted, is great enough to prevent reaction. She does not have a close bond with her family, so does not feel secure enough to let it out.  With complete outsiders (eg general public strangers) she can have a short fuse.

You could say restraint can be exercised with those she wants to impress, but who she does not feel totally secure with. Another example would be work boss, but not co workers

MY Ex always seem more friendly and attentive to people and strangers that came into the gas station and than basically ignore me her boyfriend  when I was standing right there. Never did understand that.

Sales trick, they are new 'customers' to feed her need to impress, you have already been sold.

  I want a refund! LOL!  thanks for the cool comment

[mother in law]

Thank you everyone for your comments. Although the comments do give some valid explanations,  I am still finding it hard to excuse such terrible abusive behaviour when we are repeatedly told by experts in the media that it is totally unacceptable. My DIL has said hitting, screaming and pushing her parents around is ok "all teenagers do it". Her verbal, emotional and sometimes physical abuse of my son was also dreadful. I guess if she accepted some resonsibility and said yes I have a problem and will endeavour to fix it I would feel a bit better about it. Am I hard hearted for thinking this? Have perpetrators of such abuse ever been excused in a court of law due to their BPD diagnosis?

[waverider]

Thank you everyone for your comments. Although the comments do give some valid explanations,  I am still finding it hard to excuse such terrible abusive behaviour when we are repeatedly told by experts in the media that it is totally unacceptable. My DIL has said hitting, screaming and pushing her parents around is ok "all teenagers do it". Her verbal, emotional and sometimes physical abuse of my son was also dreadful. I guess if she accepted some resonsibility and said yes I have a problem and will endeavour to fix it I would feel a bit better about it. Am I hard hearted for thinking this? Have perpetrators of such abuse ever been excused in a court of law due to their BPD diagnosis?

Understanding is not the same as accepting, it only alters the way you address it. Use of boundaries for the unacceptable, Acceptance for the less critical, and techniques to stop unnecessarily triggering and inflaming it. Accepting you cant force them to be normal. accepting that even with the best information and application you will still fail at times, doing your best is perfectly good enough

I guess if she accepted some resonsibility and said yes I have a problem and will endeavour to fix it I would feel a bit better about it

This is the essence the disorder. Its like telling the hearing impaired they should listen harder.