Question on Bank Account Boundary

[Gueneviere]

I recently posted about the current difficulties between myself and uBPDh regarding the use of our joint bank account. Long story short, he's been unemployed for about a year, his unemployment pay ran out about a month ago, and I am currently funding our joint bank account, from which he's been paying all the household bills (mortgage, utilities) as well as all of our other expenses. My name is not on the house, he bought it before we were married and technically owns it with a friend who walked out on the investment a couple years ago. My name isn't on any bills either. While he's not making extravagant purchases, his almost daily spending of $50 here, $100 there for groceries we don't really need, hardware store items we don't really need, and his paying of up to $3,000 in bills at one time without letting me know has become a source of stress I'd rather not have. I do pay the credit card bills and car payments from this account, but I keep him in the loop of what I'm doing and when. I'm an accountant, it's my nature    But it's driving me nuts to try to schedule payments and purchases around what he does when what he does is never consistent and I never really know what's going on. Last week my paycheck was used to pay bills 10 days early before I even saw it. What's ultimately happening is that without any monetary contribution from H, we are spending more than I can support.

So I recently broached the idea to H that I would like to have my paycheck direct deposited into an account of my own, where I could attempt start some savings for us, and from there I would transfer money to the joint for bills and household. This was met with "I hate you's" and threats of divorce if I did such a thing.

Over the weekend we had a nasty fight. I had gone to visit my sister and her husband last week one evening after work (the night before he was in a mood and had actually told me I should leave and go to my sister's or a hotel for the night since he couldn't stand to be around me). He kept accusing me of going to my sister's to "air our dirty laundry" which was not the point of the visit but he got me to the point where I finally told him that no, I was no longer "sugar coating" things with anyone either. Implying that I am no longer lying to my family about his employment. Well he went off his rocker. He was divorcing me. I was a lying, back-stabbing b**ch and he hated me. He was supposed to take me to pick up my car from the oil change place that day; I ended up having to walk the two miles to get it. I was told if I took his truck he would report it stolen. When I returned home, our bed was moved into the spare room and he had an air mattress blown up for himself to use in our bedroom. (Huh?) AND he proceeds to tell me since he's divorcing me he's gone ahead and moved half our joint account into an old savings account of his that was never closed. Oh, and when was I getting the f out of his house.

I verified that he did indeed move half our money. "Ours" is a stretch of the word too. We're not talking a fortune here, but several thousand dollars. I slept on the couch for two days and did my best to ignore his trying to bait me into verbal attacks and even some really odd attempts (I think) to bait me into physical fights. Yesterday (Monday) I returned home from work to find him acting as if nothing had happened. His wedding ring was back on and the evening played out very civilly and he went to bed on his air mattress. He had, however, made a $90 grocery trip using not the money he'd taken for himself, but what was left in our account.

As of this morning he has not moved the money back. As much as I hate to do it I feel I need to protect myself if this is the game he's playing now. Today I plan to open my own account and move the remaining slightly less than half into it. I'm going to have to let him know to not use his debit card or it will overdraft the joint account. What I'm wondering is:

1. Is there anything legally wrong with what I'm doing?

2. Is this exactly what he's waiting for me to do so that he can say "AHA! You want to divorce me since you did this!"

3. How best to tell him if he wants to use his debit card he'll need to fund the account again or use the money he's already got?

And I guess most importantly:

4. Am I doing the boundary thing right? I was originally going to say something like "either transfer the money back or I will open my own account" but at this point (given that this is not something I want to tolerate playing games with) I'm thinking I need to just do what I have to do and say as little as possible and let actions speak for themselves.

Thanks all.

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[allibaba]

Gueneviere,

If it were ME.  I wouldn't move all the money into the joint account right now as my husband would perceive that as an attack/ inevitable divorce etc etc. 

What I would do is open my own bank account and arrange it so that my paycheck gets deposited into that account.  I would then do up a budget and give him cash from that allotment and let him know that that this is his spending money for the two weeks... . and that I had given myself the same spending money. 

I would do up a budget to show him that this is how much money that I plan on spending on bills, this is how much I planned on saving, and this is how much I planned on putting aside for vacation together.  I would ask for his input on the budget to make sure that he is comfortable which my actions.  Even though I earn the money, its still the funds for the house.  I want to include him in this. 

My guess is that he has moved the money to control it and he may or may not have actually spent it. 

I might move your money into a joint savings account with his name on it (but that he can't access with a debit card).

That is just me!  It would be my way of enforcing boundaries without attacking him.

[allibaba]

PS All the nastiness was an extinction burst.  He's mad that you are taking control of something and enforcing boundaries 

[Gueneviere]

 

[Grey Kitty]

There is a lot to be said for trust but verify.

Moving the other half of the money would be provocative. It would also protect you when your expenses are exceeding your income, and he's not either contributing or dealing well with the realities.

Getting your paychecks deposited in your own account is protecting yourself.

Boundaries are all about self-protection, and they are a response to the others actions:

I would set one like this:

If you will not be responsible with joint money, (appears to be the case!) then I will stop putting my income in a place where you have full access to it.

I would pay both household and personal expenses out of the joint account for now if I didn't move the remainder of the money out.

Warning: You don't know exactly how bad the extinction burst will be... . he could try again when you stand up for yourself.

[arabella]

You need to move at least some of the money into a separate account, unless you are getting paid shortly, as an emergency fund. Why? Because what if he dysregulates again, pulls the rest of the money out, and kicks you out of 'his' house? You'll need something to live off of until you can get things sorted out. He now has a personal fund as a buffer - you don't. Could you perhaps just take out some of the money, rather than all of it?

[allibaba]

I agree!  And going forward make sure that you have some funds set aside in case of emergency!  I am going through very significant dyregulation with my husband over enforcing boundaries and was grateful that I had put a plan in place to ensure my own security during this process.  I had to go to walmart yesterday and buy clothing for myself and my son as well as diapers, a bottle etc because I had to vacate our house in a hurry.

[Grey Kitty]

  Glad you are taking care of yourself

In the belt-and-suspenders department: Get a credit card in just your name too. That could carry you through some waiting-for-the-paycheck and waiting-for-the-courts-or-other-crap time with less consequences! It would also get you a credit limit approved prior to any credit score hurting behaviors should they come next!

Geez, I hate seeing someone need to do these things. But so much better to have them in place and not need them!

[Gueneviere]

So most of the week went by with us being civil in the evenings and then still sleeping separately.

Yesterday we exchanged some texts where I reassured him that I loved him and he softened a bit... . although the overall tone is that I need to stop my "bhiting and yelling" if I want a husband because he's "not going to take it anymore". So it appears I'm not being divorced.    As bad as this episode has been, I did come to the realization at some point that if he wanted to divorce me he'd have gone and filed. Or left the house himself. It's so frustrating though, to have to reassure them and make nice for them to start coming around, while they still feel entitled to make you feel like crap. I've yet to hear anything loving from him in all this.

Last night he woke me from the couch in the middle of the night and asked if I wanted to sleep in the bedroom. He mumbled something about not wanting to run the living room air conditioner unit anymore (which is where I've been sleeping). I went and shared the air mattress he currently has set up in our bedroom, figuring I'd let him take his baby steps and not push him for more. At some point during the night he woke me wanting sex (not a make-up session though, this was him wanting to be demeaning)... . Being mentally drained from all this, this was the last thing I really wanted, and I politely declined. I then tried to cuddle up and hold him and he said since he wasn't getting what he wanted then he wasn't going to cuddle with me, and for me to give him his space so he could sleep. I slept the rest of the night undisturbed. Sometimes I have to remind myself that this is seriously a 35-year old man.

So I guess he's slowly coming around, while exercising power plays wherever he can. He has not yet returned the money to the joint account and has said very little about it, except that he did it because he didn't trust me. In the meantime I have opened another checking account in my name only, and will be direct depositing my pay there before deciding where to transfer it to. I've alluded to this with him although I'm not sure he'll fully grasp it for another week when I get paid next. He still acts as if finances are "all or nothing", meaning if I want my own account he doesn't want to be with me. I can't seem to get an explanation as to why he's entitled to have one though. I'll see how it plays out.

I withdrew a small amount of cash from the joint account via ATM to open my account with, but I did not move any significant money after considering what some replies said about provoking him further. I do have a credit card in my name only... . thankfully he has no interest in using credit cards or we'd really be in trouble   

[Grey Kitty]

Whew, it sounds like things are simmering down a bit. Glad to hear it.

I do think that this is a wake-up call for you that you are safer with your finances more separate than joined. I want to add that what you are doing is a perfect example of enforcing a boundary:

He took an action that you found to be unacceptable (taking joint funds for himself)

You responded with something that protected yourself from it. (Making sure you will have separate control over money in an account without his name on it.)

He still acts as if finances are "all or nothing", meaning if I want my own account he doesn't want to be with me. I can't seem to get an explanation as to why he's entitled to have one though.

You don't need to have that argument, or convince him. Just quietly and firmly live in your own reality where you keep yourself safe.

If this blows up again, you might want to do something about the joint credit card accounts. You could make sure you have sufficient credit in your name alone, then have your name removed from the joint ones. That would be less provocative than closing joint credit cards. For that matter, he could have cards only in his name that you don't know about.

I think you are doing a great job of handling this.