I didn't do well last night with SET...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Last night, I had to change a kitchen flourescent bulb.  H is like a bull in a china shop so I didn't want him to take off/put on the plastic cover.  He insisted on taking it off and cracked it... . of course blaming that it was old and fragile.  After I replaced the light, he wanted to put the cover back on (after I had repaired the crack), but I was afraid he'd further damage it.  I put it back on... . it took me a few seconds longer because I'm shorter, etc. 

H got upset and hurt.  Seriously, he isn't gentle with anything. He has poor fine motor skills and that causes a lot of breakage/accidents/spills, etc. 

I didn't say the right things, and of course, H started to dysregulate.  I was able to stop it after about 15 minutes, but I was scared that he'd really go off. 


Some background:  H's mom was indulging to the point of excessive spoiling. H often broke things in their home and his mom would just say, "that's ok, I wanted to buy a new one anyway" (which is why the family was in constant huge debt).  So, H was NEVER taught to be careful or to learn how to properly handle anything. 

[SadWifeofBPD]

Last night, I had to change a kitchen flourescent bulb.  H is like a bull in a china shop so I didn't want him to take off/put on the plastic cover.  He insisted on taking it off and cracked it... . of course blaming that it was old and fragile.  After I replaced the light, he wanted to put the cover back on (after I had repaired the crack), but I was afraid he'd further damage it.  I put it back on... . it took me a few seconds longer because I'm shorter, etc. 

H got upset and hurt.  Seriously, he isn't gentle with anything. He has poor fine motor skills and that causes a lot of breakage/accidents/spills, etc. 

I didn't say the right things, and of course, H started to dysregulate.  I was able to stop it after about 15 minutes, but I was scared that he'd really go off. 


Some background:  H's mom was indulging to the point of excessive spoiling. H often broke things in their home and his mom would just say, "that's ok, I wanted to buy a new one anyway" (which is why the family was in constant huge debt).  So, H was NEVER taught to be careful or to learn how to properly handle anything. 

[briefcase]

How did you try to use SET?

[yeeter]

We all have these moments SW.  The good thing is that you are recognizing whn they happen, and also know ways of interacting that is more and/or less Productive.

As we say, don't sweat that you feelit could have went better.  You will get many more chances to practice.

[SadWifeofBPD]

How did you try to use SET?

Well, I tried SET too late, instead of immediately.  Also, I really didn't know what to say in regards to my concerns about letting him put the plastic cover back on since I knew that he'd break it.  It's not a cover that would easily be replaced and this was in one of our rentals which was being prepared for new tenants that were moving in today. 

I face this sort of thing often.  H thinks he knows how to fix something and he'll end up making it worse.  When he was recently at his brother's home in another state, H wanted to fix his dishwasher.  His brother likely knew H would make it worse and refused to let H try.  H had no choice but to go along with his brother's decision, but H complained for days about it.  However, if if the dishwasher had been in our home, I would not have been able to stop H from "fixing" it without him getting very upset about "not trusting" him, etc.

[nodoover]

My H thinks he can fix things but gets easily frustrated and eithers breaks what he is trying to fix costing us a lot of money or he is cussing the whole time.

I feel bad for doing things myself and not letting him try, he says I am the reason he feels bad about himself.

So I know how you feel.  I still let him do many things and keep my fingers crossed. I read somewhere we have to not always pick up their messes or they never grow. But doing it is very hard.

[SadWifeofBPD]

The thing is, H is very good at doing home chores that don't require any special or careful skills.  Yesterday, he moved all the furniture and vacuumed underneath (something I would rarely do... . )... . and he pulled out all the sofa cushions and vacuumed there as well... . very good job and I thanked him profusely (nothing to break there!).    He also took a clean rag and washed all spots on walls... . another good job.  He also did a very good job sweeping the patio.

However, if he were to - say - wash clothes, he wouldn't sort the clothes and all our white laundry would be pink. 

So, the trick is to restrict him to jobs that he can do well with no damage without hurting his feelings.

[DreamFlyer99]

Hi Sadwife--

i'm only beginning to learn all these alphabet soup ways of dealing, and it just so happens that I read up on SET today and I'm very curious to see how you COULD apply it in this case.

Could S be: Honey, I love how willing you are to help with chores that a lot of men wouldn't help with (like mine! just for instance )

and E be: I know it must be frustrating to watch me do things you feel would be easier for you to do

and T be: I just really want to figure out how to do this myself

or something like that? It's so much easier for me to learn these things when I see how it SHOULD play out in a real situation. I've had soo many attempts at communicating poorly, and: T: I just REALLY want to figure out how to do this myself. Haha! How should it have worked in your case if you had a do-over?

Thanks for helping me learn.

[yeeter]

Nice DF

And maybe by asking him to guide you, but you doing the motor skill part, could still allow his expertise but a successful execution?

[SadWifeofBPD]

Could S be: Honey, I love how willing you are to help with chores that a lot of men wouldn't help with (like mine! just for instance  )

I should clarify.  My H RARELY does any home chores... . and I mean RARELY.  The only reason he helped me on Sunday was that this was for some rental property and we were in a hurry because the tenants were moving in the next day.  Since we needed to get back to our hometown that evening, H knew that he had to help me get the rental ready so that we wouldn't get back home too late (which would affect his work the next day).  Believe me, H doesn't do home chores except take out the trash. 

When H is in his normal mode, he thinks nothing of watching TV while others are working, cleaning, etc.  I've often wondered why/how he could do that.  What goes on in a pwBPD's brain that they can be lazy while others are working?

[briefcase]

When H is in his normal mode, he thinks nothing of watching TV while others are working, cleaning, etc.  I've often wondered why/how he could do that.  What goes on in a pwBPD's brain that they can be lazy while others are working?

I lived like this for years.  I worked all day and then came home and cooked dinner, did the dishes, then got the kids ready for bed.  My wife said she needed time off after spending all day with the kids.  Looking back, it said a lot about me that I allowed that.  It was unfair and exhausting and I resented her a great deal.  But, I worried so much about her emotional reaction that I never really did or said anything about it for a long time.  So, I fully enabled her "laziness."  As soon as I stopped doing all the work, she somehow found the energy to start contributing more.

I've also had to relax some of my standards and learn to live with a little dirtier house.   

[DreamFlyer99]

Sadwife--

Yours takes out the trash? so cool!

I know my H figures that because he makes the money from working that gets him off the hook for chores that happen day after day after day... . but if he starts a home project that is left unfinished for 8 years, he is contributing to the "housework."   

When H is in his normal mode, he thinks nothing of watching TV while others are working, cleaning, etc.  I've often wondered why/how he could do that.  What goes on in a pwBPD's brain that they can be lazy while others are working?

I lived like this for years.  I worked all day and then came home and cooked dinner, did the dishes, then got the kids ready for bed.  I've also had to relax some of my standards and learn to live with a little dirtier house.   

SOoo, Briefcase,

where do I pick one of these men up?

Nice DF

Thanks! Even though I turned out to be really OFF with my "S" statement.

I should clarify.  My H RARELY does any home chores... . and I mean RARELY. 

  What goes on in a pwBPD's brain

Briefcase had some very good thoughts about the whole enabling kind of thing we often fall into that allows our BPDs to skate while everyone else is digging a trench. I know I've done that emotionally with my uBPDh. That's what i'm hoping to change by learning the various tools for dealing with a person whose brain we may never understand. And every tool we learn helps change the dynamic just a little... .

Happy learning,

DreamFlyer99

[SadWifeofBPD]

Briefcase had some very good thoughts about the whole enabling kind of thing we often fall into that allows our BPDs to skate while everyone else is digging a trench. I know I've done that emotionally with my uBPDh. That's what i'm hoping to change by learning the various tools for dealing with a person whose brain we may never understand. And every tool we learn helps change the dynamic just a little

I agree that in that situation (where the H is doing the work that the housewife SHOULD be doing), but it's different the other way around.  H is doing his work (his job)... . I'm not doing his "work".

However, H doesn't really think that home chores should be "his work" because he does work a job.  That said, when he has many days off and doesn't have that excuse, then his excuse is: "I'm tired," or "I pulled a muscle" or "it's my vacation," or "you may think that needs to get done, but I don't." 

We got off on the wrong foot because H used to work a lot of overtime, so it made sense that his home time would be his "off time".  However, he hasn't worked overtime for awhile, so that excuse is gone.  So, he turns to new excuses: tired, sick, hungover, etc.

I tried "doing less" in hopes that he would "do more," but that didn't change a thing except our house got dirtier.  He complained that the house got dirtier, but didn't pitch in.

One time he tracked mud into our home, across the floors, and across the carpet in TWO rooms.  He refused to clean it.  I let the carpet stains stay for a few MONTHS... . and he never cleaned them.  I finally had to clean them.  So, me doing less does NOT mean that  he'll do more.

[SadWifeofBPD]

The saving grace right now is that I now have the whitest hat ever.  H is now saying that he's fallen madly in love with me again and that I'm the best person ever.     I know this won't last.  ha ha... . a month ago I was the evil Hitler person. 

H canceled divorce proceedings again (his attorney must think he's nuts... . well, he is... . ).  This last time, I avoided being served the filing papers because I knew that H would "come around" eventually.  It took longer this time because his brother had given him strict orders to not contact me... . which H finally broke in June. 

[briefcase]

I would agree my circumstances were different, but my point was that we often have more control over our own lives than we realize.  The solutions that worked for me may not work for you, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there are no solutions for you.   

[DreamFlyer99]

You're both right, SadWife and Briefcase, of course. I mean, getting my H to help is also an impossible task for some of those same reasons ("I'm just so tired!" etc.) and as long as our S25 lives at home my H will just shift the work onto him. And Briefcase, such a good point, I mean ALL these things are variable based on our unique situation and the BPD person in our life. WE are all different, so stands to reason the ways we need to work with the tools etc will be different. Rather like raising our child to fit their "bent" not ours, like the tender hearted child needs very little to feel bad about something they messed up where another child will go "hm. Steal the cookie and get spanked? Okay. The cookie's worth that." and go ahead and steal the cookie. And I often FEEL like I am raising another child with my H!

I know that I came to a point where it was making me NUTS that tho I liked serving people coffee or whatever it was making me crazy that my H just expected me to do that. There's not quite the same joy in it when it's expected. And he'd never carry his plate out to the sink even, let alone put it in the dishwasher. My T said "he wants you to be his mommy." GAAAH! And there was a loong period of groaning once I started saying, "hey, could you just put your plate in the sink?" and stopped doing it and other similar things. You woulda thought I was sprinkling tacks on the floor for his bare feet to walk on. Good grief! But as it became "the norm" he just started doing it. One of the other things was that he wouldn't even get his own drink. I finally as I was finishing up dinner started saying "hey Hon, why don't you go ahead and find what you want to drink with dinner while i'm serving it up" and same thing, groaning, but as it became a norm he found he WAS physically able to get to the fridge on his own. (which he never has had an issue with for beer. Hmmm... . )

My T was of course very helpful even getting me to realize what was bugging me! So, just saying, it's totally individual and not black and white. But it's part of our boundaries to work out so we stop enabling the behavior, and then how to go about that. After all, i'd like my H to be a BIG boy!

I've been reading the boundary workshop and there is so much great information there, maybe you could read some of that in all your spare time, SadMom?

My biggest frustration has been in assuming my H should be able to understand/figure things out, I mean, he's a grownup, right? WRONG. His emotional maturity is much younger than he is. My expectations had to change as did my methods of dealing. It's not what I thought my marriage would look like after 37 years, so i'm changing things up.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Getting H to bring dirty dishes, etc, to the sink isn't an issue.  He also puts his dirty laundry into the hamper.

The problem is getting him to do CHORES... . which means setting aside 15-45 minutes to do LABOR on a REGULAR basis, when he'd rather be watching TV, napping, relaxing, etc. 

It's just not in his nature to have a routine of doing chores. 

It's very clear that when he was raised, his mom didn't have her kids do a planned "Saturday morning chore hour" or "evening meal clean up".  I can tell that H never learned any kind of cleaning routine, nor did he learn HOW to clean. 

We were separated for about 3 months.  When I first walked into his apartment, I knew that I wouldn't be walking into House Beautiful.  Since he had 2 hours to prepare for my arrival, he did vacuum (the first time ever in his apt) and he went to the store to buy clean sheets... . since the ones he'd been sleeping on for 3 months were filthy.  He also bought new towels.  HE HAS A LAUNDRY ROOM, but was too lazy to wash these things... . easier to just buy new ones!   He also had a TON of shirts in his closet, presumably because he found that buying new ones was easier than doing laundry, too.

There was stuff all around the kitchen counters.  He has two bathrooms, and one toilet was awful. 

[briefcase]

The problem is getting him to... .

You could plug just about anything after this statment and be right.  Getting our partners to do something they don't want to do is pretty much an insurmountable problem.  There is just no healthy way for us to get our partners to do something they don't want to do.  That goes for doing chores, getting treatment, being polite, recognizing their own limitations, etc.

We can ask (DEARMAN).  But, we can't really make them do much of anything. What we can do is set limits and respect our own boundaries, even if they don't.  

Sadwife, what boundaries have you started to enforce since you have been back together with him?  

[SadWifeofBPD]

We can ask (DEARMAN).  But, we can't really make them do much of anything. What we can do is set limits and respect our own boundaries, even if they don't.  

What is DEARMAN... . and where do I learn about it?

Sadwife, what boundaries have you started to enforce since you have been back together with him?  

Good question!   I told him that he can no longer yell at me.  So far that's working.  Don't really know how to put any others into place. 

I still have my own place which I go to (have to go to) for business in another town... . so he now knows that I have the freedom to leave at any time. 

[DreamFlyer99]

SadWife, it took me some navigating before I started finding things too! Ive been selecting the "boards" tab above in the horizontal strip andy that pulls up the whole list of available boards, scan down it and find WORKSHOPS and there's a great one boundaries that clarified many things for me. I think it may be in workshops that I found some of those "alphabet soup" things like SET and DEARMAN... . It's definitely worth checking out! And usually the different boards have info in a vertical strip to the right with links to the applicable information. There's soo much to absorb it takes awhile.

Be gentle and kind to yourself like you would be with someone else, yunno? Remember you've spent a couple of decades in a relationship that probably was absolutely its own thing separate from what you expected from any relationship, and the nature of a r/s with a pw BPD tends to make the strongest people doubt their own sanity. It makes you see through damaged lenses, yunno? Give yourself some compassion, okay?

You can at least applaud yourself for figuring it out sooner than me! I've been married for nearly 37 years and while I felt some things were off I didn't realize how far off till my therapist brought me to the realization about 2 years ago! Haha!

There are so many tools here to help you communicate as long as you need to and so many to help you work on yourself so you have hope for your future.

Love yourself like you love your children. You are so worth it!

[DreamFlyer99]

Oh--forgot to say I've been in the marriage this long because it hasn't been as intense as yours from the sounds of it... . not even close... . just so you know there's no judgment on you wanting out of the situation from my end!