Invalidation and family dynamics

[alembic]

Do go the private route as discussed and I am just saying that the hope should be for a diagnosis of something that would lead to a treatment of her behaviors. Her raging and tantrums sound beyond the scope of normal to me.

Hi again mamachelle,

The division of services here in the UK makes it very difficult sometimes.  Completely different services handle 'behavioural' issues compared to 'mental health' issues, even though obviously mental health issues can cause behavioural problems.

Whatever the official diagnosis is, and whatever you want to call it, my concern has always been to try and get the kids the support they need to be able to function reasonably effectively in life, particularly when we parents are not around.  With emotional problems, unfortunately it seems to be necessary for someone to decide (or guess) whether the cause is environmental, or whether it is biological, because they are handled by different agencies here.  Of course, it isn't always obvious, and I think it would be better if there were one agency that could try different approaches, but that's just the way it is here.

With something like this, where the kids are not noticeably behaving badly outside the home, and are doing very well academically, and have friends, the first guess of the authorities is always going to be the home environment - that this is somehow lacking.  And indeed it is, lacking a lot of the warmth and love and I would expect from a normal home environment. However, whilst I do feel that this indeed exacerbates our problems as a family, I don't honestly believe that the kids would be  all happy and healthy if that environment were improved.  Things have been much better in the past than they are now in our family, and the children still had great difficulty with their emotional control.  I am quite concerned that the state authorities will merely put a bandage around our current family problems, see things improve a little, and pronounce the job done, whereas I feel that the root cause of much our difficulties are the mental health problems of the family members, which are largely unaddressed.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

I feel that the root cause of much our difficulties are the mental health problems of the family members, which are largely unaddressed.

From all you have said, that sounds right to me. However, for all sorts of good reasons, you won't get a mental health diagnosis for someone under 11 with a personality disorder.

Nonetheless, there are possible solutions I believe. I return again to neurofeedback. Neurofeedback addresses behaviours. It has had researched success with anxiety, depression, ADHD, PTSD, Bi-Polar and such like and anecdotal success with BPD. In an earlier post I gave you a link to a London place that could be a good start to explore this option.

One avenue is to go through a neuropsychologist to do full testing.

This was the road that mamachelle took and why she suggested it to you. There are two other mums here who post who found the experience made recovery possible (one child a teenager, one an adult).

The thing with neurologists/neuropsychs is that in dealing with the brain and giving the 'patient' control over their brain, it feels non threatening, non blaming and non confrontational. It may be that your son's experience attracts your wife to try it as well... .

cheers,

Vivek    

[heronbird]

Hi,

Yes my camhs was brilliant in the end, in fact we got lucky with the psychiatrist, its not always the case. by the time we were discharged to adult services, the psychiatrist told me that they are starting to diagnose under 18s now, so it is going to become more common, she said you can diagnose it if they have had 5 or more of the symptoms for more than a year.

She was wonderful, she knew all about the tools I read in Valerie Porrs book and she really supported me as much as she could.

Having the diagnosis also changed our lives, dd went from rebelious spoilt brat teen to a person with a serious mental health illness. Finally people helped us a bit more and didnt treat us like a waste of time.

I do not label dd, I have the diagnosis for her so it helps me understand her and work with it. It probably saved our relationship and lives really.

At the end of the day she is dd not BPD dd. So she is not labelled, she is understood and I have compassion for her. I completely get it and I do not ever get fed up or angry with her because I have an understanding for her, wheat ever she is putting anyone through she is going through 10 times worse and there is not much help out there for her.

Incidentaly,  dont think private will be any better, as far as I  can work out it is not, I have spoken to people who went private for ages and it didnt help at all.

Well, the book Overcoming BPD changed everything for us, I had read 6 books and decided no more, but this was the last one, and I am so glad I read it.

If you get change google TARA and go on their mailing list and see what they offer, its in New York only problem. Still, I am trying to do something similar here, it takes time though.

[angeldust1]

It sounds to me like you are one heck of a good father.  You need a pat on the back for even hanging in there with all of this going on.  A lot of men would have abandoned ship.  But you didn't!  That in itself says a lot about your character.   

They should be happy that you care so much and that you are willing to go the extra mile to help them through all of this.  Wow children and a wife with BPD !

As far as it not  mental health issue,  I'm afraid I disagree with their idea,  it is an mental health disorder.   It is a disorder,  it is not an illness,  but mental disorder.  Their brains are wired differently  than ours,  they can't help it,  we can't help it.  It is so obvious that this is the case.  You can read story after story just on this site,  that the same behavior is repeated over and over.  This is not a coincidence,  this is fact.

Keep on plugging you'll get there,  even if the mental health dept will not help you,  the people on this site,  the wealth of information here will help you.  I will keep you in my prayers and I think you are one heck of a good man.

God bless.

[alembic]

Hello Angeldust,

Many thanks for your kind and encouraging post.   Helps to keep me going to think that someone at least thinks I'm doing a good job.


Things continue here much as before at the moment.  A couple of weeks ago the police  had to be called to our house because our son threatened to jump out of his first floor bedroom window because he was so fed up of his life.  Despite the fact that I was was at work 80 miles away, my wife still tried to blame me.

The locality team continues to meet with us on regular basis, but things proceed very slowly, much to the frustration of our son.  They are fixated on the idea that these ar behavioural problems, and that educating us parents about childcare is going to solve the problem.   It would be great if it were true, but somehow I don't think it is going to make much  difference.  Like you, I believe that the root of the problem lies in mental health, and until this is examined, things won't get any better.

My wife is on holiday for two weeks with the girls from tomorrow, so that she give my son and I some peace and quiet.

[vivekananda]

Hiya,

Good to hear from you again  . I hope you and your son have a good break.

I am thinking, that it might not pay to feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall. The symptoms of BPD are behavioural. If they can treat these symptoms, then that will help. The most successful treatment for BPD is Dialectic Behaviour Therapy (DBT). It is a therapy based on behaviours, and an extension of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT).

Also because young brains are so very plastic, they are learning their behaviours, a formal diagnosis is not really essential. The treatments are all designed for teenagers and adults.

Your son has a genetic predisposition to BPD probably. But this disorder is not only determined by genetics. The environment we are in has a significant impact upon us. So it is most appropriate that the health professionals try to work on creating a supportive and nurturing environment for your lad in the home.

You are so important to your son. Your calm, positive presence is a constant reminder for how a man conducts himself. Your validating communication teaches him about his emotions and helps him to recognise how he feels. Your boundary setting teaches him about how he needs structure in his life and how he can use his own boundaries to provide himself with structure.

Alembic, my daughter is now 32. If I had known before, what I know now, she wouldn't be so unhappy and unwell as she is now. While I wasn't too bad with boundaries, I didn't appreciate the power of validation. Things would be different for her and me now, if I had known. And, of course, my husband and I weren't on the same page, consistently. But I would have made a difference - and if he knew then what we know now, maybe he would too.

While you cannot change the system you have to work with, you can change yourself and be a model to your son and use the opportunity to let him learn to be a happy, independent, young man.

I recommended two books to you. One on validation, the other on boundaries, did you check them out? I think you will find them helpful.

take care and please continue to keep us up to date. We are all here for you,

Vivek    

[alembic]

Hiya,

Good to hear from you again  . I hope you and your son have a good break.

Hello vivenkananda, thanks for the encouraging message. My son and I are indeed having a good break. We're over a week into it, now, and no problems at our end. Peaceful and happy. Doing us both good, I think.

I am thinking, that it might not pay to feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall. The symptoms of BPD are behavioural. If they can treat these symptoms, then that will help. The most successful treatment for BPD is Dialectic Behaviour Therapy (DBT). It is a therapy based on behaviours, and an extension of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT).

I'd come to more or less the same conclusion.  I still think it would be better if the system more directly acknowledged the mental health aspects of the situation in our family, but I am hopeful that concentrating on the behavioural aspects might make some improvements, even if it doesn't quite get to the heart of the matter.

Whilst things are good with me and my son, things aren't so good with my wife and our daughters.  Had my older daughter sobbing on the phone two days ago, begging to be put on a flight and be allowed to come home from her holiday.   My wife and her parents were giving our daughter a really hard time, screaming at her and so on.  Her grandmother had tried to hit her the previous day, as she mistakenly thought she was trying to steal sweets from her younger sister. As I was trying to calm my daughter down on the phone, my wife was screaming at her in the background in response to everything she was saying to me.  I tried to get my wife to put our older daughter on a flight home, because she was so distressed, but she refused.  In the end I had to have a stern word with her and her parents, and explain that if they didn't change their attitude towards our daughter, I would have no choice but to call children's services.  That seemed to do the trick.

Our son is worried about the return of the mum and his sisters, though. He thinks things will go back to the usual screaming and emotional stress, and he's probably right.  That's how things have been with the girls on their holiday.  I keep hoping that the penny will drop, and the state services will make some impact on my wife, but my hope has been in vain so far - she might understand intellectually what they tell her, but emotionally she just doesn't seem to be able to control herself - just like the children. It's like one child trying to lead others.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello vivenkananda, thanks for the encouraging message. My son and I are indeed having a good break. We're over a week into it, now, and no problems at our end. Peaceful and happy. Doing us both good, I think.

I see an opportunity here - you are building rapport with your son. You might be able to help him cope in the future, and be a stabilizing force in his life. 

I still think it would be better if the system more directly acknowledged the mental health aspects of the situation in our family, but I am hopeful that concentrating on the behavioural aspects might make some improvements, even if it doesn't quite get to the heart of the matter.

You are right on target there.

Whilst things are good with me and my son, things aren't so good with my wife and our daughters... .  

In the end I had to have a stern word with her and her parents, and explain that if they didn't change their attitude towards our daughter, I would have no choice but to call children's services.  That seemed to do the trick.

Our son is worried about the return of the mum and his sisters, though. He thinks things will go back to the usual screaming and emotional stress, and he's probably right.  That's how things have been with the girls on their holiday.  I keep hoping that the penny will drop, and the state services will make some impact on my wife, but my hope has been in vain so far - she might understand intellectually what they tell her, but emotionally she just doesn't seem to be able to control herself - just like the children. It's like one child trying to lead others.

Your son is right.

Your hope may come true, let's hope for the best.

What you also do have in your control is your 50% of the r/s with your wife, and the posibility of learning effective communication tools that might help create a more peaceful atmosphere in your home. Have you explored some of the resources on this website, and/or books, or has life been too chaotic and stressful so far?

Let us know... .

[vivekananda]

pessio is always succinct and on the ball.

here's a link that is easy to watch. It goes for about 50 minutes. It'd help to have a pen and paper at hand when watching:

Understanding Validation in Families - Alan E. Fruzzetti, PhD

So, are you learning anything from us?

enjoy those hols while you can 

Vivek