do you even know who you are now?

[Turkish]

we need to remind ourselves that although we may have some emotinal maturity issues, they are effectively children at that level.

this makes me wince ~ i have it on pretty good authority (an experienced clinical psychologist) who says that people choose partners who have the same emotional maturity.  it sounds reasonable... . but if it's true, and if it's also true that our pwBPD have the emotional maturity of a 5 year old... . then i don't like (or understand) what that sez abt me.

I think there is some truth to that. However, most of our partners played out abusive behaviors which we would not. Leave aside the possible codependency issues on our side, and what does that say about our emotional maturity compared to theirs? On the outside we are all adults. Maybe we are child like people pleasers, but it does not excuse abuse. Maybe that is more of an adult moral judgement... . I fully acknowledge the father-daughter r/s with mine... . immature, sure, but at the same level?

[goldylamont]

PS:  if Nons are 'good people' then by default the pwBPD are 'bad people'?  in what beneficial way(s) do you find that line of thought serving you?

well, i surely wouldn't say that 'nons' are all good people. i don't think having been in an abusive r/s necessarily makes you 'good'. however, absolutely yes i do consider pwBPD bad people--at least in the context of their relationships. doesn't mean they have to stay bad, that's not up to me. i call a spade a spade though.

[Conundrum]

I haven't lost my identity at all. Probably bc my previous divorce though amicable involved very young children--consequently the stakes were higher. This 7 year experience with my pwBPD has left me curious, baffled and introspective in a number of ways. I definitely define myself as a father-first, career-second, and relationship-third. I've had over 25 years in two relationships, so that's my context. I'm ok with silence. The bizarre part has been the rengagements. Unlike anything before, we seem to hook up every so often, and when we do it seems like we should still be together, granted she's impossible. Still we remain sort of fu@ked up family. She's just not relationship material, whatever that means.

[charred]

We do find our own level... . we grow up looking for the kind of experience we had as kids... but we deny we are doing it.

We respond with electricity to someone that matches our model of love... and it comes from our early FOO experience. 

When people are not developmentally perfect... they get stuck at an earlier stage of development... . and they use ego defenses to turn their fears in to justifications for why they do stuff. Instead of being afraid to meet people or get close... . they are rugged individualist... the cowboy that rides alone. We have been badly hurt in our r/s with pwBPD... and gladly will blame them 100%... and they are at least 50% of the problem... and we are the other 50%... . has to be, we are the other one in the r/s.

It is our ego that keeps us stressed out and ruminating... . we really don't want to accept bad news... . and the idea that our dream person that we thought was wonderful... is disordered is hard to accept, idea that we have our own issues that drew us to that person... . to many is beyond what they will accept. The idea that you grew up in a disordered family... had lots of bad experiences... . and came out of it unscathed because you are special somehow... . we can accept that. Only our pwBPD seemed to recognize how special we are in that way. Everyone else looks at us and either doesn't get why we are so bent out of shape about a breakup... . or they think we need to get help ourselves.

If your pwBPD is outgoing type... rants, raves... be sure to read about waif types... and NPD... as you very well may find that one or both of your folks had PD type issues. My dad I knew was NPD... no missing it, but mom just was passive-aggressive... . didn't seem like my pwBPD... . but now I see she was just like her... only turning everything inward not outward.

I am still wondering who I am ... now that I see my FOO differently... . and realize how much of what I did was ego defense driven... whats under it all?

[santa]

PS:  if Nons are 'good people' then by default the pwBPD are 'bad people'?  in what beneficial way(s) do you find that line of thought serving you?

well, i surely wouldn't say that 'nons' are all good people. i don't think having been in an abusive r/s necessarily makes you 'good'. however, absolutely yes i do consider pwBPD bad people--at least in the context of their relationships. doesn't mean they have to stay bad, that's not up to me. i call a spade a spade though.

See... . he gets it.

[blueeyedjess]

I do not... I feel lost, empty... . like I am just floating through the days... not even with much thought anymore... . I used to be a vibrant ray of sunshine... no longer...

Totally with you there. I'm getting some of my sun-shinyness back, though dammit. It's staying strong that is difficult. I know my inner light is still there, but I forgot where I put it for a loonnnnnggggg time. 

[goldylamont]

We do find our own level... . we grow up looking for the kind of experience we had as kids... but we deny we are doing it.

We respond with electricity to someone that matches our model of love... and it comes from our early FOO experience. 

When people are not developmentally perfect... they get stuck at an earlier stage of development... . and they use ego defenses to turn their fears in to justifications for why they do stuff. Instead of being afraid to meet people or get close... . they are rugged individualist... the cowboy that rides alone. We have been badly hurt in our r/s with pwBPD... and gladly will blame them 100%... and they are at least 50% of the problem... and we are the other 50%... . has to be, we are the other one in the r/s.

It is our ego that keeps us stressed out and ruminating... . we really don't want to accept bad news... . and the idea that our dream person that we thought was wonderful... is disordered is hard to accept, idea that we have our own issues that drew us to that person... . to many is beyond what they will accept. The idea that you grew up in a disordered family... had lots of bad experiences... . and came out of it unscathed because you are special somehow... . we can accept that. Only our pwBPD seemed to recognize how special we are in that way. Everyone else looks at us and either doesn't get why we are so bent out of shape about a breakup... . or they think we need to get help ourselves.

If your pwBPD is outgoing type... rants, raves... be sure to read about waif types... and NPD... as you very well may find that one or both of your folks had PD type issues. My dad I knew was NPD... no missing it, but mom just was passive-aggressive... . didn't seem like my pwBPD... . but now I see she was just like her... only turning everything inward not outward.

I am still wondering who I am ... now that I see my FOO differently... . and realize how much of what I did was ego defense driven... whats under it all?

this does seem to be the dynamic for the majority of people here. however my personal views on my r/s differ somewhat, and i've come to accept that this simply isn't the experience that many nons can identify with.

for me personally, i totally agree that i was 50% of the relationship. i totally disagree that i was 50% or even close to 50% of the problems in the r/s. take any other long term r/s i've been in, and yes i will share 50/50. but my r/s with BPD was the exception, not the rule for long term r/s i've been in thus far (and this includes a healthy r/s after xBPD which allowed me to further figure out who i was).

for all the introspection, meditation and self awareness practices i've done i just don't see any connection to wrongdoings from my parents/family or traumatic childhood experiences that made me into a sort of BPD magnet. however, i do see something that i've always felt since childhood as contributing to me really wanting the r/s to work. for me, it was physical appearance--and trust that i would never settle for a 'trophy' wife or gf. there was dedication and 'love' (if you will) coming from both of us in the r/s. however i realize that a lot of my ego was attached to how physically attracted i was to my ex; and now i'm simply working to recalibrate this need of mine and find some balance.

really i feel like i was able to overcome fears of commitment (or possibly marriage) since i had found someone who i was attracted enough to to make this kind of commitment. in a way i felt safe because i felt like i could stop seeking; so now the difficult introspection i'm doing is figuring out what truly am i seeking and is it 100% solid. and no i don't think i need to throw physical attractiveness out the window, but it needs to be examined and balanced. but none of this struggle, again, for me personally, has to do with any tragedies from childhood or issues from my FOO upbringing. i'm always open to the possibility though, but so far i feel that this is closest to my real truth.

[charred]

I don't think I was 50% of the problem... maybe 20%... . my pwBPD was intensely problematic. She had been divorced twice, had 7 engagements and didn't even know how many BF's... long history of unstable r/s.  I was married 22 yrs without major issues... . till my pwBPD came back in to my life.

Commitment isn't what triggers people usually, engulfment is the big trigger. Read a book called "Healing Developmental Trauma"... . and it left me really irritated... . it had a lot of information about typical ego defenses ... . but once I found my balance and thought about it... . it nailed many mysteries of behavior. There are a lot of people that seem to have an irrational commitment to things like political parties that do the opposite of what they need in their lives... and when you try to calmly discuss these subjects... you see them tense up, voices go shrill and rationality is out the door... most the time it is some ego defense they are very sensitive about behind it. The more issues we have the more ego defenses... . if you have a long list of what makes you who you are... . and came from a FOO with a lot of issues... . your list is pretty likely to be full of items that could easily be ego defenses.

I didn't see my mom as disordered until very recently... . she didn't act horrific like my pwBPD... . but reading up on BPD... some act out and some act in... . and the acting in description met her perfectly... . and her life history of having her mother die when she was 5 and her father then dump her on her grandparents till she was 13 (basically both parent abandoning her... one permanently)... had a profound effect on her... . she is traumatized being around little kids like the little sisters she had to take care of. She is better with boys... but handles kids till they are about 5 like they are diseased rodents... or something that should be picked up with a tong and tossed out... . amazingly uncomfortable to witness. However I don't remember being treated like that... just the feeling I could never get close to her... . it was seeing her with my daughter that gave me pause to reconsider.

When you visit another family and hang out with them... . it seems like the family issues just pop out at you... when you talk to people some know and talk of issues... . others will swear they had a "perfect" childhood and get defensive. Most of us didn't have trouble free upbringings... I had issues in mine, but really thought I wasn't effected... . then that I was barely touched by it... now I realize much of what I took as my self, my personality... is directly the result of FOO issues and ego defenses... . no wonder you rarely hear this. Realizing my pwBPD was attractive to me because of similarity to my mothers disorder  Sex being creepy eventually with pwBPD for no reason... . now I see reasons   Dreamgirl was disordered with emotional maturity of 3-4 yr old   All of that is very unpleasant... much nicer to think "but I am blame free and a non"... . I am finding it is harder to be honest with yourself and accept ego deflating truths than to evade them. The truth is we have great qualities we don't accept and some issues we also don't accept... and that ego defensive part of us... is where the BPD r/s lives, its where you ruminate over how wonderful 10% of the time with your abusive partner and how you want that back... and manage to rationalize away the other 90% ... the abusive part. If you were able to do that very well... you probably have some ego defensive issues and the "Healing Developmental Trauma" book would sting and make you recoil... but it still would have some truth to it... . the painful to hear kind.

Letting down some of my defensiveness... . helped open my eyes... but so much was ego defenses... what is left... that is why I am a bit unsure of who I really am... . and I did really get a lot of abuse in the BPD r/s.