survey says...

[Seneca]

my uBPDh came home yesterday from the headshrinker, proud to say that he DOES NOT have BPD. after 120 minutes of knowing him and the results of some personality assessment test, the man diagnoses him with SOMETHING... . some maladaptive behaviors, or label that my H won't fully disclose, but not BPD. to be fair, i highly doubt the man said "congrats, you do not have BPD", but told him about his "issues". from what i gathered from the conversation, the issues are anxiety, paranoia, hyper sensitivity et al. buuuuut... . those are symptoms of BPD. so i don't know what all the friggin celebratin was about. anyway... .

he says it is so nice to finally be understood, and i am happy for him that he found someone to help. it is my understanding that head shrinkers often do not tell people that they have BPD, as the label can bring up all sorts of negative connotations. can i get some experience on this one? i don't really care what docs have to say, i don't need the validation for myself. but i would like him to be treated according to his conditions, not according to a bad (or overly simple) diagnosis. whether he HAS BPD or just BPD type behaviors, makes no difference. the result is the same.

anyway, arguing last night some. i JADED a bit (naughty!) he is so hyperfocused on ME and on US, and i have made it repeatedly clear that there is no "us", i don't know how else to tell him.

i guess he got his hopes up because i made this big spread of food for the football games on sunday. but i did that because i am a huge broncos fan, and the playoff game felt like my superbowl!  so he tells me he was all excited and hopeful and i say "honey, it's just food." he took that really hard. he felt so let down. i made it clear that i was not going to play games with him, that if i had a change of heart about my end of the arrangement, i'd just tell him straight up.

then he started identifying his problem a bit. you see, apparently there are 2 Mes. The 1st one is beautiful and loving and kind, but the second me is mean and ugly and hurts him, and he shies away from that one. and if only i'd go to therapy myself and learn to be kinder to him, things could change. (how SIMPLE! why didn't I think of that?  ) and while he is saying this, i am listening placidly but in my head saying "you are not ugly. you are not mean. you are not ugly. you are not mean. it is not your fault he feels bad about his life. don't take the blame. you can't save him." like i was throwing myself a lifejacket. if only he could know the lengths i've gone to to protect him from the world, from himself, for me... . constantly analyzing things before i say them as to whether it would hurt him in some way. for years and years. i've done everything i could! it wasn't "good enough!" i simply told him, "I can't save you". he says "you are the only one who can!" well then, i guess he'll have to be a lost cause. because i'm not doing it anymore.

damn you FOG.  :'(

[thicker skin]

  hi Seneca,

My experience with psychiatrists and the mental health team went as follows :- They decided that he could come in every day, be told that I didn't have BPD, NPD, MPD, bipolar etc and he still wouldn't believe them. He would always say that they didn't know me. They explained in detail that I was normal for my situation, had no reason to feel safe, talked of the longevity of his traits and mentioned suspiciousness, rather than paranoia. They told me as much as they could, within the confines of patient confidentiality. They decided not to tell him, in order to protect me. The psychiatrists parting shot was to remind me of the jealous men I see on the news and what happens to their women. I wish they'd told him.

He tells me that there is no we or us and that we don't have a future. He also wants me to live like there is. It doesn't motivate me and I'm not sure how you telling your husband that he's in a no win situation with you will help in the long run. I understand your reasons, but it means that both of you are in a sexless, emotionless and futile relationship, where neither of your normal needs are met.

I'm sure most of us could say that there are two of 'them'. I'm also sure that my SO says the same about me. In my mind, it boils down to the person we are when we are arguing, defending... . Jading. Not attractive 

[Seneca]

 hi Seneca,

My experience with psychiatrists and the mental health team went as follows :- They decided that he could come in every day, be told that I didn't have BPD, NPD, MPD, bipolar etc and he still wouldn't believe them. He would always say that they didn't know me. They explained in detail that I was normal for my situation, had no reason to feel safe, talked of the longevity of his traits and mentioned suspiciousness, rather than paranoia. They told me as much as they could, within the confines of patient confidentiality. They decided not to tell him, in order to protect me. The psychiatrists parting shot was to remind me of the jealous men I see on the news and what happens to their women. I wish they'd told him.

He tells me that there is no we or us and that we don't have a future. He also wants me to live like there is. It doesn't motivate me and I'm not sure how you telling your husband that he's in a no win situation with you will help in the long run. I understand your reasons, but it means that both of you are in a sexless, emotionless and futile relationship, where neither of your normal needs are met.

I'm sure most of us could say that there are two of 'them'. I'm also sure that my SO says the same about me. In my mind, it boils down to the person we are when we are arguing, defending... . Jading. Not attractive 

thicker skin, i get what you are saying about a "business partnership" as a stand in for marriage being unmotivating. however, i have boundaries. i am not honoring myself or my wants and needs by putting myself in the same dang situation for the millionth time, and frankly i am not interested in being relationally romantic with someone who treats me like this. it was one too many incidences, and the dam broke. however, we have 2 beautiful children, who adore him, and generally speaking i am able to keep them safe from his drama. i cannot in good conscience put my WANTS (freedom from emotional battering, a normal r/s, peace) above my children's best interests. that is the decision i make for ME and for the girls. he is free to make whatever decision he needs to for HIM. if he can't live with the arrangement, he can bag it anytime he likes. but i will not be drug back through hell one more time for this man. NOT happening.

if that JADE made me "unattractive", so be it   we all have to survive this somehow. i am grateful that i am not like the people on the "staying" board, who are still going back in to the trenches day after day for their beatings. their COMMITMENT to love and their pwBPD is so admirable, but imo,  many of them are short changing themselves in the peace and contentment department. i did the martyr thing, for going on 13 years now. not anymore.

[seeking balance]

i am grateful that i am not like the people on the "staying" board, who are still going back in to the trenches day after day for their beatings. their COMMITMENT to love and their pwBPD is so admirable, but imo,  many of them are short changing themselves in the peace and contentment department. i did the martyr thing, for going on 13 years now. not anymore.

Seneca,

If you are not interested in staying or using the staying tools to not make this situation worse, why are you on undecided and not on leaving?  It sounds like you have chosen your path... .

I get being sick and tired of the drama and chaos, honestly - it can wear us out.  Living together when you are done serves what purpose for you?

[MyGreatEscape]

Hi Seneca!

I think I missed what "jading" is but I'm gathering that it has something to do with us losing patience and saying stupid crap back to THEIR stupid crap? OH well, it happens! We can only take SO much and sometimes they NEED a good ass whoopin'! (If I'm off, please tell me what the heck jading is... . LOL... . )

As for the therapy stuff and them being told they have BPD... .

I am doing my Bachelor's in Psych right now so I have my hands on every journal and publication known to man about BPD... . you KNOW I have searched every new release I can get my hands on!

Every "breakthrough" is indeed showing that it can't be "cured" but this partially because no one realllllly understands what the heck causes this. We are guessing that it's partially genetic and partially environmental. Nature vs. Nurture or Nature AND Nurture, just Nature, OR even just Nurture. Translation: They were born this way or their Mama done effed them up. Okay, not funny... . no, yes it is.

Official answer is: treat the symptoms with Cognitive Behavior Therapy... . them learning new habits to change their behavior and thinking processes... . and sometimes meds for depression or antipsychotics for the really bad episodes. Because these people are SO unstable and volatile... . no... . most therapists will NOT tell them what they have at all or until they have had significant changes/breakthroughs. His/Our T won't tell him (my husband) either... . it is "just a label" and he needs treatment, but this particular label makes people lose it. Two T's have told ME though. And I guess I could understand that... . who wants to be told you have something seriously wrong with your thinking? Your BRAIN? It's not a tumor, it's an embarrassing admission! My opinion is that many of these people could be "cured" so to speak if they were more mature and could stop childish HABITS... . our frail little neurotransmitters get wired with every habit we make, so imagine having to change a LIFETIME of behavior that may have been caused by childhood trauma or stupid choices... . not so easy. 

After living in this myself... . when I able to help others, I will also choose to NOT immediately tell the pwBPD that they have it. It's far more important that they keep coming in so you can try to change their patterns before you drop that bomb on a person who is looking for ANY excuse to never go again!

Does that help at all, I hope?

If there is a magic pill to be made, I will find it, dammit... . and I will give it away FREE!

[seeking balance]

Hi Seneca!

I think I missed what "jading"

When you set a boundary - stick to it.

Do NOT:

Justify

Argue

Defend

Explain

Here is a good thread on it - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

[MyGreatEscape]

Those are undeniably AWESOME "guidelines" that we should all "keep in mind"... . but we are not robots and life is real, not drawn from a script... . or none of us would be on this board. Just sayin'... .

[Seneca]

seeking balance, did you miss the part of my post when i mentioned my children? i CAN'T leave. or i could, but it would be a terribly selfish and detrimental thing to do to my kids. but "being" with him would be a lie and an act, because i don't have those feelings towards him. (i could add "anymore" or "right now", to be fair, i don't know which one is accurate.) i am not on the leaving board, because i am NOT leaving. i am also not on the staying board because i am not an active participant in a romantic r/s. so i have nowhere i fit in really. i figured this was the best place for me. we cannot totally avoid each other, and i support him, as a friend in his recovery. i use the SET tools, encourage him, listen to him and try to be empathetic and understanding. but the romantic part, the sharing of myself part is gone.

[seeking balance]

Those are undeniably AWESOME "guidelines" that we should all "keep in mind"... . but we are not robots and life is real, not drawn from a script... . or none of us would be on this board. Just sayin'... .

Perhaps this would be a great thread for you to start.

Seneca is on the undecided board and the very first step is "stop the bleeding" in choosing a path (see to the right). 

Seneca has used the tools successfully in the past and honestly had a moment where reality hit - there is no judgement from me (she knows this) - putting the options on the table - without reality, the undecided board can be very very difficult and is no place to live for a long period of time.  This can be damaging to both parties.

[thicker skin]

I hear you Seneca, I really do. I just happen to live with the result of a woman who chose to stay, thinking she was doing the right thing, but actually did more harm than good. The last six months of my inlaws marriage was horrendous and she had waited to divorce until she thought her youngest ( my partner ) was old enough to cope. He lived a massive lie with her and didn't see a healthy relationship as a result. Everything he knew and trusted was a lie, for years.

I respect your choice, but feel compelled to ensure that it is informed.

Staying with Dad and keeping everyone together is an understandable desire. Your children not witnessing an intimate and loving bond between their parents, setting a blue print for their futures, is also something that needs to be considered.

I wish you well flower. I also wish you something beautiful and worthy, which meets your needs  

[MyGreatEscape]

My GAWD.

I'm sorry, but I am going to stand up for Seneca here. This IS, afterall, the "Undecided" board... . and let's face it... . dealing with people who have BPD leaves us ALL Undecided about a whoole lotta stuff. I don't care that she has it in her heart to leave "eventually"... . I feel that way too. I also have my days when I think, god, I love this man, he's making progress... . is there is hope? And then he flips and I am back to saving money to get the hell out of here.

This illness is hell on us.

Let's not ADD to the bleeding Seneca (and I, and everyone else) feels by making passive-aggressive judgments that we don't have the right to make.

Again, the "don't JADE" thing is a great set of guidelines, but fact is that some of these responses I'm reading are the same damned thing, aren't they? Justifying YOUR opinion, Arguing why you feel Seneca "should do" this or that, etc... .

Come on... . this is a SUPPORT board. Be supportive or be silent.

[seeking balance]

First off Seneca - challenging someones thinking is an active way to getting somewhere, not in any way intended for you to feel bad about yourself.  We all do the best we can, I do realize this.

seeking balance, did you miss the part of my post when i mentioned my children? i CAN'T leave. or i could, but it would be a terribly selfish and detrimental thing to do to my kids.

Let's play devil's advocate here - exactly how would this be any more detrimental than what is currently going on?  Again, I am not saying you have to leave - saying that exploring reality sometimes can help us focus where we may need to be.

but "being" with him would be a lie and an act, because i don't have those feelings towards him. (i could add "anymore" or "right now", to be fair, i don't know which one is accurate.)

I don't think you need to be with him, not saying that either... . staying is what you are doing even if it is not in a romantic way.

i am not on the leaving board, because i am NOT leaving.

you have left emotionally, right?  So, the tools on leaving - learning to detach - might be of value for you so you can emotionally be able to handle the situation you are in.

i am also not on the staying board because i am not an active participant in a romantic r/s. so i have nowhere i fit in really. i figured this was the best place for me. we cannot totally avoid each other, and i support him, as a friend in his recovery. i use the SET tools, encourage him, listen to him and try to be empathetic and understanding. but the romantic part, the sharing of myself part is gone.

Again, you are in the technically right board - but the point of this board is to choose a path.  From my experience, the undecided board is a place is the absolute hardest place to be.

Supporting him as a friend - to do this, you have to really take good care of you ... . are you also in T while he is dealing with his part of the issues?

Seneca - this might feel like I am picking on you and I certainly can stop participating in your thread.  You love your kids and I get a sense you want to do what is best for you all... . I am asking questions to help you figure that out... . nothing more.

JADE - it protects you both... . honestly, it takes practice and having a strategy when we find ourselves reacting is very important.  If you want, we can focus on putting a strategy in place so you don't feel the need to JADE.

Again, I do understand we are all human and we do the best we can - but  (and this is big) we are active participants in the dysfunctional dance and we can only control changing us... . that is it.  I was so happy when my ex was in T and P, but you know what - the MC made it crystal clear that just as much work was required from me - different work - but hard work.   Since you parent with him, either way - you will have to tap into those skills needed.

Have you picked up the book High Conflict Couple?  It might help - it uses DBT skills by both parties.  Your H seems willing to work on a better relationship (however, that might look) and it doesn't mention BPD, it gives tools for each of you to use.

If you prefer me to not post in your thread - simply PM me and I will respect your boundary - no worries at all, honestly.

Peace,

SB

[Seneca]

I hear you Seneca, I really do. I just happen to live with the result of a woman who chose to stay, thinking she was doing the right thing, but actually did more harm than good. The last six months of my inlaws marriage was horrendous and she had waited to divorce until she thought her youngest ( my partner ) was old enough to cope. He lived a massive lie with her and didn't see a healthy relationship as a result. Everything he knew and trusted was a lie, for years.

I respect your choice, but feel compelled to ensure that it is informed.

Staying with Dad and keeping everyone together is an understandable desire. Your children not witnessing an intimate and loving bond between their parents, setting a blue print for their futures, is also something that needs to be considered.

I wish you well flower. I also wish you something beautiful and worthy, which meets your needs  

thickerskin, don't misunderstand me - i realize that there are no GOOD choices here. my choices are between bad and worse, and it is up to me to decide which one is the lesser. because my children are very young, self focused and pretty unaware of their parents as individuals, and because we are NO conflict in front of them, and because he is a great dad, and because financially we are all better off, i choose to stay. but i am in no way kidding myself that modeling this distant, unloving r/s is beneficial. i am well aware that one day they will have to face the idea that i stayed in a cold situation and modeled this messed up version of marriage to them for their sakes. but if i end it now, it'd be absolutely devastating. many people on these boards are in actively violent and unpredictable situations, that are dangerous for their kids in more ways than one. my h is on SSRIs, so that is definitely NOT the case. when he dysregulates around them, as rarely as it happens, i immediately squash the situation. one day they will ask questions. why do you and dad have separate rooms? why don't you hug or go out on dates? why aren't you like my friend's parents? then, it may be time for this  . but i can tell you one thing i've learned as a mother, my kids don't give a frog's fat behind if i am fulfilled or not. they couldn't care less. little kids are totally self occupied - as long as they are happy, it's good enough for them. i take responsibility for my own happiness. i enjoy my life, am active with my kids, operate a non-profit and model good behavior to them. this is the one area of my life that is dysfunctional. i don't mope or complain or show them my displeasure. i am generally an optimistic and happy person.

i came from a home that was high conflict and scary. i understand the effects of that because i lived it. i wish my parents had split up. this is not the experience of my kids. yet, when they are a bit older, it will probably be appropriate to end things. it is just "not yet". i stay on the "undecided" board largely because my H is undecided. he doesn't know if he can live with this arrangement. if he finds the courage, he may well just leave me. i consider myself to belong here because i am in a state of flux, just like the rest of you, unsure of where we are going and when we will get there.

[KateCat]

Hi, Seneca:

I've read some of your story and am glad your kids have such a great mom.

If anyone can make this type of arrangement work, it may be you. I want only to say that I've read several accounts on this forum of a wife/mother trying something similar. And I don't think there has been one instance reported in which a "non conjugal" living proposal to a personality disordered husband has proved tenable for very long at all.

You sound realistic, stoic even  , and likely you are already preparing for increasing frustration on the part of your husband. Do be careful, as your husband may not yet believe you are serious.

[thicker skin]

  Seneca... .

I will support whatever decision you make. None of them are easy, are they? There is hurt whichever option you choose. I'm in a similar predicament myself, except my partner is a paranoid controller, who uses threats and guilt to manipulate me, whilst trying to convince me I'm nuts. His paranoid delusions are not my lies. His projection is not my narcissism. My denial of my illnesses is not me hiding behind a facade... . I'm just suffering from the very thing that you've drawn the line at, after too many years of jading and push pull. I'm not putting myself forward for it any more, either. I wish my partner would bend some and get help. His sickness has eventually made me an unhealthy partner too... .

You're lucky to still have a life beyond him. You're lucky to be able to lead a relatively normal life outside of the home. I don't engage with the madness these days. Can you imagine a BPDer trying to convince you that his paranoia is reality and your BPD prevents you from coming clean? Bonkers.

The only way for me to prevent my kids witnessing abuse is to keep my head down and mouth shut... . Until I can safely leave, with my children, sanity and a secure job in hand. A dislocated coccyx and knackered si joint mean I can't ply my trade anymore. I did keep at it for nearly a year, in complete agony, but the paranoia and physical violence over minor triggers made me call a halt to it. Physical and emotional pain, for a man who called me an irresponsible, parasitic narc was too much   being mum, house keeper and working full time on a building site is not my idea of irresponsible or lazy. Now that I've stopped, my coccyx has stabilised and this site is helping with the skullbuggery    I'm in the never again camp too. I'm thankful that my years at work in renovation and historic buildings have given me other skills to use, which I hope to transfer to an office based environment.

I don't want my son to think that it's okay to constantly belittle and diminish women, or for my daughter to accept it. I pray I'm not too late.

Here for you 

[Seneca]

 Seneca... .

I will support whatever decision you make. None of them are easy, are they? There is hurt whichever option you choose. I'm in a similar predicament myself, except my partner is a paranoid controller, who uses threats and guilt to manipulate me, whilst trying to convince me I'm nuts. His paranoid delusions are not my lies. His projection is not my narcissism. My denial of my illnesses is not me hiding behind a facade... . I'm just suffering from the very thing that you've drawn the line at, after too many years of jading and push pull. I'm not putting myself forward for it any more, either. I wish my partner would bend some and get help. His sickness has eventually made me an unhealthy partner too... .

You're lucky to still have a life beyond him. You're lucky to be able to lead a relatively normal life outside of the home. I don't engage with the madness these days. Can you imagine a BPDer trying to convince you that his paranoia is reality and your BPD prevents you from coming clean? Bonkers.

The only way for me to prevent my kids witnessing abuse is to keep my head down and mouth shut... . Until I can safely leave, with my children, sanity and a secure job in hand. A dislocated coccyx and knackered si joint mean I can't ply my trade anymore. I did keep at it for nearly a year, in complete agony, but the paranoia and physical violence over minor triggers made me call a halt to it. Physical and emotional pain, for a man who called me an irresponsible, parasitic narc was too much   being mum, house keeper and working full time on a building site is not my idea of irresponsible or lazy. Now that I've stopped, my coccyx has stabilised and this site is helping with the skullbuggery    I'm in the never again camp too. I'm thankful that my years at work in renovation and historic buildings have given me other skills to use, which I hope to transfer to an office based environment.

I don't want my son to think that it's okay to constantly belittle and diminish women, or for my daughter to accept it. I pray I'm not too late.

Here for you 

thickerskin, i totally can imagine it. that is exactly how mine is, off his meds. he was on for nine months straight, and things, while not fabulous, were quite manageable. i almost forgot what it used to be like. then he went off them for a month, and that's when he crossed the lines for his final time. he went back on right after that because i suspect he was desperate for relief from his suffering, not for me. but then everything about BPD came to light, and now he sees he really does need them to function. if it weren't for the meds, and i knew about his BPD, yes, i'd take the kids and bail asap. there is no feeling more helpless than a parent who wants to protect her kids, but can't. i am sorry you are in such a tough situation with yours. hoping that your good influence on your kids counterbalances that bad and that you can get out of there asap.   hang tough girl.

katecat, i  totally get that a non-conjugal r/s is kinda doomed. luckily the SSRIs kill his libido quite a bit, so from that standpoint it's much easier. i just have to stay true to me and him. he has always wanted genuine enthusiasm, but the place in my heart i had for him and the willingness to get physical with him has dried up. i don't know if it's forever. i can't answer those questions. how good could he get with treatment? okay? tolerable? good? not much better? who knows. this is the 'for now' arrangement. but everyone has equal power over themselves here, and he can go if he can't deal with it. 

[KateCat]

These are two things (from an earlier post of yours) that worry me as I am familiar with some of the manifestations of clinical paranoia in a man:

"6) Paranoia: He goes through stages of paranoia under extreme stress. He will suddenly think I am hiding money, having affairs, trying to divorce him. He'd ask our babies when he came home from work "did mommy's boyfriend come over today?". He'd go through the browser history on the computer, hack my emails and make crazy accusations that I was having affairs with straight female friends, much much older men, or virtually any acquaintance I have. If a man said hello to me on the street, he will hammer me for hours about how that guy is undressing me in his mind, how I thought that guy was hot, etc. It is relentless.

7) Objectification: It is clear to me that I am an object to meet his needs. He does not see me as a person with desires, hopes, aspiration, intelligence, interest etc. I am only here for him. He doesn't take an interest in what I do, has almost NEVER had my back in a crisis, stood by me when I was weak emotionally, or tended my needs. He does treat my body like it belongs to someone who isn't human. Like I'm a doll."

I know you'll be on the lookout for signs that he may begin to feel you're influenced by someone and consequently turning against him. Sometimes guys like this are not able to see their partners as fully human and cannot believe that they can make major decisions on their own, without outside influence. It might be good to read this forum's suggestions about escape plan preparedness just in case anger starts to build in him as this immediate crisis passes.

[thicker skin]

I had a similar scenario Seneca... . He got help and I recovered, moved forward and allowed myself to believe that everything was going to be 'normal'. I was truly happy, for the first time in my adult life. Safe to have a voice/choice, safe to be me and be seen for who I was... . Or so I thought. When the rug was pulled, I became the proverbial frog in a boiling pot of water. I'd been out of it, got used to normal conditions, then was plunged head first back in. It literally struck me dumb. It had all been an act. The madness kicked off big style and he unleashed himself on me. I retaliated, thinking I could get back to those two years, but it's not possible. The reality of that cut me up. I truly loved him.

Mine too, takes SSRIs and have reduced his libido. Mine too has been fixated with me being a lesbian, sleeping with anyone, or people only having a sexual interest in me. Age, size, gender, it hasn't mattered. He thinks I enjoy it. Part of my disorder. I use my body as a weapon. When the effects of his words and thoughts take hold, my libido goes and I am then abusing him, or punishing him to get my own way by withholding. He hasn't got a clue.

I understand your defences... . Like me, I suspect that you're thinking if you'd had them years ago, you wouldn't have kids in the mix or years lost to a debilitating and cruel illness. It can't take anymore from you and you can't take any more.  

[Seneca]

These are two things (from an earlier post of yours) that worry me as I am familiar with some of the manifestations of clinical paranoia in a man:

"6) Paranoia: He goes through stages of paranoia under extreme stress. He will suddenly think I am hiding money, having affairs, trying to divorce him. He'd ask our babies when he came home from work "did mommy's boyfriend come over today?". He'd go through the browser history on the computer, hack my emails and make crazy accusations that I was having affairs with straight female friends, much much older men, or virtually any acquaintance I have. If a man said hello to me on the street, he will hammer me for hours about how that guy is undressing me in his mind, how I thought that guy was hot, etc. It is relentless.

7) Objectification: It is clear to me that I am an object to meet his needs. He does not see me as a person with desires, hopes, aspiration, intelligence, interest etc. I am only here for him. He doesn't take an interest in what I do, has almost NEVER had my back in a crisis, stood by me when I was weak emotionally, or tended my needs. He does treat my body like it belongs to someone who isn't human. Like I'm a doll."

I know you'll be on the lookout for signs that he may begin to feel you're influenced by someone and consequently turning against him. Sometimes guys like this are not able to see their partners as fully human and cannot believe that they can make major decisions on their own, without outside influence. It might be good to read this forum's suggestions about escape plan preparedness just in case anger starts to build in him as this immediate crisis passes.

assessment is right on katecat. when i told him about my decision, he kept asking me if "they" helped me in my decision. or if "they" are supportive of my choice. who is they? i repeatedly took ownership of myself and my choices. right now he is still splitting, and i can do or say no wrong, and he is horrible and sick and shamed. it will change, i know. and i am prepared to bag it if things get nuts. again, the meds he takes for his comorbid depression are HUGE. they totally mellow him out... . no hysterics or violence. it's not that he doesn't dysregulate, it's just not very dramatic. what i need to be most concerned with is if he goes off his meds again. but in that case i think he is liable to hurt himself, not me. thanks for your concern and insight, i am certainly going to be vigilant.

[Seneca]

I had a similar scenario Seneca... . He got help and I recovered, moved forward and allowed myself to believe that everything was going to be 'normal'. I was truly happy, for the first time in my adult life. Safe to have a voice/choice, safe to be me and be seen for who I was... . Or so I thought. When the rug was pulled, I became the proverbial frog in a boiling pot of water. I'd been out of it, got used to normal conditions, then was plunged head first back in. It literally struck me dumb. It had all been an act. The madness kicked off big style and he unleashed himself on me. I retaliated, thinking I could get back to those two years, but it's not possible. The reality of that cut me up. I truly loved him.

Mine too, takes SSRIs and have reduced his libido. Mine too has been fixated with me being a lesbian, sleeping with anyone, or people only having a sexual interest in me. Age, size, gender, it hasn't mattered. He thinks I enjoy it. Part of my disorder. I use my body as a weapon. When the effects of his words and thoughts take hold, my libido goes and I am then abusing him, or punishing him to get my own way by withholding. He hasn't got a clue.

I understand your defences... . Like me, I suspect that you're thinking if you'd had them years ago, you wouldn't have kids in the mix or years lost to a debilitating and cruel illness. It can't take anymore from you and you can't take any more.  

oh, i so needed that today thickerskin, thank you. i am standing firm in my approach and actions, but i can feel my resolve waning. he is just being so nice and wonderful! and is so enthusiastic for therapy! maybe he can be different. maybe he can get better! but you snapped me back to reality. the likelihood of him making long term change is infinitesimal.

yea, years ago he did all this research and decided i have NPD. he doesn't say that anymore, but is very happy to point out that i have my own issues and i may be the one needing help so i can learn how to molly coddle him. ugh! i did not plan on having three children!

[KateCat]

i simply told him, "I can't save you". he says "you are the only one who can!"

Dang, Seneca, you could not be more in the middle of the Mary Oliver poem you quoted, could you? You know, the "'mend my life!' each voice cried" portion of the poem.  

Maybe you can cling to the wisdom of another important forum fable: "The Bridge." https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;all

He's got a great opportunity to do therapy now. And you've got a great opportunity to draw boundaries.

[thicker skin]

You stand strong Seneca... . A few happy pills and the danger of losing you may well be keeping him in check right now, but it doesn't mean he isn't keeping an inventory to beat you with once he's comfy and forgotten his promises... . Take it from me.

He could mean it. He could get better. He could fly you off to Mauritius tomorrow. Could isn't enough. Solid, sound proof. Your body. Your mind. Your life. You say ... .

Here if you need me 

[KateCat]

it doesn't mean he isn't keeping an inventory to beat you with once he's comfy and forgotten his promises

Thank you, thicker skin. This is my fear as well, precisely.

The game may be quite different henceforth. From the perspective of a paranoid person, it can be as though one of his limbs has suddenly stopped functioning at his command. I wonder if the man you have been describing here will really be able to see this ultimately as something other than a betrayal, abetted by "them."

Standing strong, as thicker skin has advised, will be your shield . . . . And as you are very observant, you can do this.

[Seneca]

i simply told him, "I can't save you". he says "you are the only one who can!"

Dang, Seneca, you could not be more in the middle of the Mary Oliver poem you quoted, could you? You know, the "'mend my life!' each voice cried" portion of the poem.  

Maybe you can cling to the wisdom of another important forum fable: "The Bridge." https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;all

He's got a great opportunity to do therapy now. And you've got a great opportunity to draw boundaries.

katecat, that fable made me cry and cry. thank you for sharing it.

[KateCat]

Yay!

I was a benighted, confused adult-child-of-an-alcoholic type person with no boundaries until well into my fifties. Fortunately, along the way, God created the internet, and then one day said, "Let there be 'bpdfamily.com,'" and life started to improve a whole bunch for me.

"The Bridge" is a classic. I'm so glad you like it.