I wanted so badly for all of you to be incorrect, however. . . .

[drv3006]

you all were not.   Sometimes i felt incredibly guilty being on here and saying things about him.   Last I posted that he was telling me he was gonna kill himself.  Well, I blocked him on all phones and text  but after two weeks i unblocked (about the time when someone posted some game about no contact, guess i didn't play) and then I received a text.   So I responded.   I kept thinking to myself,  D, you know this man, the people on here you don't really know.  You don't know how bad their relationships were.  They were probably way worse than yours.  So, give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Have hope and faith.  Love him till he can learn to love himself  Sounds good doesn't it.   You can talk to him, you can tell him how you really feel about things.  Well, you are all correct and that makes me sad (no offense to any of you).   I told him him that suicidal and homicidal rants were my limit and that he needed to get counseling, I apologized for the things that I had done but i also stressed the things I wasn't sorry for.  And you know what.  Not a word not a peep.  I guess you can't say nothing to these people ever.   Which left me to that feeling of "Oh what did I do now"  or "O I should have just kept my mouth shut"   I wanted so badly to have faith and hope for him for us.  He is a human being for goodness sakes and he suffers.  Why can't I handle it.  So, now back to beating my head in with stupid " I should have" self talk that makes me even more upset.  I should just have left him blocked.  And i still wish things could change.   I never really read in any book that people with BPD were a lost cause.   It just a lot of work.  And I either cant handle it or he don't like how I choose to handle it.    Thanks for listening.

[CoasterRider]

you all were not.   Sometimes i felt incredibly guilty being on here and saying things about him.   Last I posted that he was telling me he was gonna kill himself.  Well, I blocked him on all phones and text  but after two weeks i unblocked (about the time when someone posted some game about no contact, guess i didn't play) and then I received a text.   So I responded.   I kept thinking to myself,  D, you know this man, the people on here you don't really know.  You don't know how bad their relationships were.  They were probably way worse than yours.  So, give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Have hope and faith.  Love him till he can learn to love himself  Sounds good doesn't it.   You can talk to him, you can tell him how you really feel about things.  Well, you are all correct and that makes me sad (no offense to any of you).   I told him him that suicidal and homicidal rants were my limit and that he needed to get counseling, I apologized for the things that I had done but i also stressed the things I wasn't sorry for.  And you know what.  Not a word not a peep.  I guess you can't say nothing to these people ever.   Which left me to that feeling of "Oh what did I do now"  or "O I should have just kept my mouth shut"   I wanted so badly to have faith and hope for him for us.  He is a human being for goodness sakes and he suffers.  Why can't I handle it.  So, now back to beating my head in with stupid " I should have" self talk that makes me even more upset.  I should just have left him blocked.  And i still wish things could change.   I never really read in any book that people with BPD were a lost cause.   It just a lot of work.  And I either cant handle it or he don't like how I choose to handle it.    Thanks for listening.

You know the him he wants you to think he is

The montra of the codependant

You can love him all day and night but if he doesnt love himself he wont allow your love to mean much and will never be enough to fill the void where his love should be also

[fromheeltoheal]

BPD sufferers can get better, not cure the disorder mind you, just manage it better.  But they have to want it, have to pursue it themselves; you can't 'fix' him, no amount of 'love' can fix a borderline.  God knows we tried.  I liken it to alcoholism, another incurable disease that can be effectively managed, although an alcoholic has to hit bottom to find the humility to seek help.  So does a borderline, and if there's an endless supply of soothers there's no need; if it 'works' don't fix it.  And I use the term 'works' loosely.

But anyway.  How did that experience help you?

[Mutt]

Don't be hard on yourself drv3006. It can take time to accept that this is a severe mental disorder. Take care of you.

[shellsh0cked]

Codependency seems to be a hallmark of those of us involved with borderlines that had let it get to this state (why we are here... ).  Any non-CO would have left without a second thought when things get tough.  We think we can "rescue" this person... . maybe "peel away" the nasty, hurtful, irrational person that comes out.  But we can't and this frustrates the hell out of a codependent person.

They are like vampires and we are the willing victims.  They feed on us and drink us dry... .

BUT... . Devil's advocate here... . we also are kind of like vampires too in a way and we feed on them too by fueling our needs to rescue them... . to make it all better... . the way it should be and they let us... . for a while anyway.  

Sound familiar?  

So yeah, they have problems... . so do we!  So it's up to us to make that change too... . to be less codependent and more independent so that we aren't eaten up by another "vampire".    

Admitting this to yourself will go a long way towards healing and prevention next go around.

[Mutt]

BUT... . Devil's advocate here... . we also are kind of like vampires too in a way and we feed on them too by fueling our needs to rescue them... . to make it all better... . the way it should be and they let us... . for a while anyway.  

We fused with them. One has strong defence mechanisms that distorts reality and protects the ego. Break the attachment, work on your issues, don't fall into the rabbit hole again.

[heartandwhole]

Oh drv3006,

I'm sorry you are hurting and your hope is shattered.  That is really painful.  I can relate to your feelings, they are very understandable.    My experience with pwBPD was different from many on these boards (no raging, very aware of his behavior, caring, etc.), but of course in the end, the shattering of hope and resulting hurt was like everyone else's.

We're here because we understand the pain of loss.  If you can, let go of the "should haves" and "could haves" right now.

Nothing that has happened can be changed, but all possibilities reside in this very moment.

We're here for you.  

[CoasterRider]

We think we can "rescue" this person... . maybe "peel away" the nasty, hurtful, irrational person that comes out.  But we can't and this frustrates the hell out of a codependent person.


BUT... . Devil's advocate here... . we also are kind of like vampires too in a way and we feed on them too by fueling our needs to rescue them... . to make it all better... . the way it should be and they let us... . for a while anyway.  

I agree, my ex is a decent sweet hearted guy, people say he showed his "true self" in the end. I dont buy it, the person he was in the end was a person controlled by his demons. However, he has to fight them, I can not do that for him.

I read a book, "The White Knight Syndrome: Rescuing ourselves from the need to rescue others." It spoke to your second comment. About how our efforts to be altruistic are not truly altruistic in the spirit of what it means to be selfless. We are doing it for our own selfish reasons. When our gradeous gestures to be "worth" keeping arent appreciated it devastates us. Whereas a truly selfless person does so without expectation its going to get them something in return.

I agree we use them as much as they use us. We arent much different than them as far as core trauma and self esteem issues in the past an how it messes up our relationships. We are different in the sense we arent too far in the black hole as them in that we can see ourselves for what/who we are.

[Changingman]

I think the definition of 'better' is very loose.

I've read 'coasting' is closer or they torture one instead of six. It feels too much of what she was, not sure if there was anything else. Also she was addicted to drink and drugs and sex, all these issues? Cure? How long?

[shellsh0cked]

We think we can "rescue" this person... . maybe "peel away" the nasty, hurtful, irrational person that comes out.  But we can't and this frustrates the hell out of a codependent person.


BUT... . Devil's advocate here... . we also are kind of like vampires too in a way and we feed on them too by fueling our needs to rescue them... . to make it all better... . the way it should be and they let us... . for a while anyway.  

I agree, my ex is a decent sweet hearted guy, people say he showed his "true self" in the end. I dont buy it, the person he was in the end was a person controlled by his demons. However, he has to fight them, I can not do that for him.

I read a book, "The White Knight Syndrome: Rescuing ourselves from the need to rescue others." It spoke to your second comment. About how our efforts to be altruistic are not truly altruistic in the spirit of what it means to be selfless. We are doing it for our own selfish reasons. When our gradeous gestures to be "worth" keeping arent appreciated it devastates us. Whereas a truly selfless person does so without expectation its going to get them something in return.

I agree we use them as much as they use us. We arent much different than them as far as core trauma and self esteem issues in the past an how it messes up our relationships. We are different in the sense we arent too far in the black hole as them in that we can see ourselves for what/who we are.

Yep... . I stayed with her WAAAAY too long which was totally selfish on my part.  I couldn't really see that at first... . but when you love someone you would walk through fire for them too.  I loved her... . very much in fact, but the selfishness of staying with a disordered person had to do with more me than her unfortunately looking back now. 

But yeah... . the one thing that separates us from them is our ability to "step outside" ourselves once away for a bit... . and we can see... . realize where we are headed and see just how unhealthy it is... . That we can see that codependency and maybe DO something about it.  A borderline on the other hand in 99% of the cases is WAY to far in that black hole of denial to ever see or admit such a thing to themselves.

[seeking balance]

you all were not.   Sometimes i felt incredibly guilty being on here and saying things about him.   Last I posted that he was telling me he was gonna kill himself.  Well, I blocked him on all phones and text  but after two weeks i unblocked (about the time when someone posted some game about no contact, guess i didn't play) and then I received a text.   So I responded.   I kept thinking to myself,  D, you know this man, the people on here you don't really know.  You don't know how bad their relationships were.  They were probably way worse than yours.  So, give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Have hope and faith.  Love him till he can learn to love himself  Sounds good doesn't it.   You can talk to him, you can tell him how you really feel about things.  Well, you are all correct and that makes me sad (no offense to any of you).   I told him him that suicidal and homicidal rants were my limit and that he needed to get counseling, I apologized for the things that I had done but i also stressed the things I wasn't sorry for.  And you know what.  Not a word not a peep.  I guess you can't say nothing to these people ever.   Which left me to that feeling of "Oh what did I do now"  or "O I should have just kept my mouth shut"   I wanted so badly to have faith and hope for him for us.  He is a human being for goodness sakes and he suffers.  Why can't I handle it.  So, now back to beating my head in with stupid " I should have" self talk that makes me even more upset.  I should just have left him blocked.  And i still wish things could change.   I never really read in any book that people with BPD were a lost cause.   It just a lot of work.  And I either cant handle it or he don't like how I choose to handle it.    Thanks for listening.

Be kind to yourself, none of us really believed our ex was like this... . myself included.  My head was so deep in the sand and even though I literally had the MC tell me "ex has no sense of self and sees you as her persecutor or saving her depending on her mood" - the words BPD were not used, so certainly this really didn't apply to me.

We loved and we did the best we could with what we knew - even if it wasn't perfect, it was our best.  Be kind to yourself.

Peace,

SB

[drv3006]

Thanks everyone.   I don't know why I can't seem to wrap my head around just walking away from someone who has a disease.   But even I have limits I couldn't listen anymone about how he was gonna kill himself and send letters blaming it on me to everyone I know or how he wanted others to die a horrible death and on and on.  It was one thing when he was attacking me  personally but I couldn't imagine what I (self centered again I guess) would have done if he killed himself or any of those people (ex, attorneys, judges - you know the ones who are all wrong but him) if something happened.  I spoke with his doctor   He said mostly they hurt themselves.  But Gees, I couldn't live with that.   And I feel horrible for thinking that maybe just maybe he could be that sick.   But I don't know.  I don't know what a person will or will not do.   I do know that I would have felt awful     And whats with my crazy controling head that thinks if I stick around that he will be better.  And those things won't happen.  What's up with that.  Who do I think I am.  Why do I think I have so much conrol that his actions rely on wheather I stay or not.  Really?   I am kidding myself and I know it.   It baffles me.  Honestly,  I keep praying for the point where I don't care.  ha

[Learning_curve74]

drv3006, what you did is totally understandable. You care about him and wish that you could make it all better. After all, when you're down, you can eventually feel better, right? Unfortunately as you've learned, he has a serious mental illness, and your love never was nor ever will be the cure.

Please be forgiving and kind to yourself. There are some hard lessons we have to learn by experience, painful as they can be.

We all get into and stayed in these BPD relationships for various reasons. Maybe we needed to prove ourselves lovable. Maybe it gave us identity and worth through giving. Maybe we were lonely and wounded looking to them to help us feel whole. Maybe we were in denial. Maybe we were just desperate to feel loved. There are many possible reasons. It sounds like you are working through that part of self discovery which will help in your healing in the end.

I wrote this earlier today: we can love somebody without needing to be in a relationship with them. Best wishes to you, drv3006. 

[State85]

  Honestly,  I keep praying for the point where I don't care.  ha

That day will come. Be patient, and keep praying.

[growing_wings]

you all were not.   Sometimes i felt incredibly guilty being on here and saying things about him.   Last I posted that he was telling me he was gonna kill himself.  Well, I blocked him on all phones and text  but after two weeks i unblocked (about the time when someone posted some game about no contact, guess i didn't play) and then I received a text.   So I responded.   I kept thinking to myself,  :), you know this man, the people on here you don't really know.  You don't know how bad their relationships were.  They were probably way worse than yours.  So, give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Have hope and faith.  Love him till he can learn to love himself  Sounds good doesn't it.   You can talk to him, you can tell him how you really feel about things.  Well, you are all correct and that makes me sad (no offense to any of you).   I told him him that suicidal and homicidal rants were my limit and that he needed to get counseling, I apologized for the things that I had done but i also stressed the things I wasn't sorry for.  And you know what.  Not a word not a peep.  I guess you can't say nothing to these people ever.   Which left me to that feeling of "Oh what did I do now"  or "O I should have just kept my mouth shut"   I wanted so badly to have faith and hope for him for us.  He is a human being for goodness sakes and he suffers.  Why can't I handle it.  So, now back to beating my head in with stupid " I should have" self talk that makes me even more upset.  I should just have left him blocked.  And i still wish things could change.   I never really read in any book that people with BPD were a lost cause.   It just a lot of work.  And I either cant handle it or he don't like how I choose to handle it.    Thanks for listening.

dont be too hard on yourself indeed. For me, the same happened. I almost felt i needed to get hit back several times just to confirm, to make sure that I was right and BPD was at the core. I gave my ex chances (some days i still believe i need to give her one more chance!) ohh well... .  the process of detaching is different to each of us. some people get it quick, some of us need to get hurt a bit more to grasp it.

just learn from this experience... . as i am trying to learn from mine.

my therapist asked me: how far would you go?, would you go to hospital?, it took me a few seconds to reply with a NO, which means at some level i considered that answer a yes!, since then i have realized i need to be stronger with my decisions of not giving more chances. She needs to help herself, noone else can help her but herself.

[Changingman]

Mostly I think unless this is your blood relation ( maybe not even then ) people should not be given false hope of recovery. The seem so doomed to repeat.

New members cling to and worry about their SO being cured! They mean: return to the first stage, this is a fantasy.

Run don't walk