BPDs and their friends... does anyone see similarities, or is it just mine?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've been bouncing around a few of the threads tonight, and something reminded of what my exdBPDw's mother said to me once. With out the ex in the room, her mother told me that my ex had never had any close friends that were as smart as she is. That she always chose to get close to friends not quite as smart. At the time, I just kind of let it go as her mother being the judgmental busybody she is, with an over appreciation of her daughter's intelligence.

Now that I know more about my ex's disorder, it got me to thinking.

My ex is a very bright, and intelligent woman. There's no denying that fact. Sometimes she's too smart for her own good. Especially when you factor in the disorder. She can do just enough (or too much) research to talk herself into, or out of, just about anything.

Now, I look at the close friends she has had since before we met. They aren't quite as intelligent as my ex. They're not dumb by any means, most have a college degree. But, they aren't very sophisticated and don't have a thirst for knowledge, a desire for greater understanding of the world around them, or a solid handle of current events. They're not stupid, or bad people. I really like some of them. They just don't exist on the same plane.

I'm guessing that she has chosen them as her friends so she can build herself up. She can be the one that knows things. She can be the authority. That she can also get out of control, and not feel like they are judging her. I don't think that they grasp her true potential and abilities. I think she feels comfortable around them because they don't.

I have also noticed that she, sometimes, is more willing to put herself out to help one of them in a difficult situation than the others are. Like she is trying to prove that she is just a bit better than the others. But, when it comes time for her to have a disastrous life event, no one is willing to step up and help her. How many times had I heard about all she had done for B when her life seemed to be falling apart, but that now that she needed something, B was absolutely no help. (My ex can give lessons on how to keep score in the game of life.)

I've also noticed, much more clearly since the divorce, that when things are really going to he! for her that she will find a new friend, or friends, that are even more fu**ed up than she is.

Is this something common to pwBPD, or is it just my ex's own brand of crazy?

[that1guy]

I've been bouncing around a few of the threads tonight, and something reminded of what my exdBPDw's mother said to me once. With out the ex in the room, her mother told me that my ex had never had any close friends that were as smart as she is. That she always chose to get close to friends not quite as smart. At the time, I just kind of let it go as her mother being the judgmental busybody she is, with an over appreciation of her daughter's intelligence.

Now that I know more about my ex's disorder, it got me to thinking.

My ex is a very bright, and intelligent woman. There's no denying that fact. Sometimes she's too smart for her own good. Especially when you factor in the disorder. She can do just enough (or too much) research to talk herself into, or out of, just about anything.

Now, I look at the close friends she has had since before we met. They aren't quite as intelligent as my ex. They're not dumb by any means, most have a college degree. But, they aren't very sophisticated and don't have a thirst for knowledge, a desire for greater understanding of the world around them, or a solid handle of current events. They're not stupid, or bad people. I really like some of them. They just don't exist on the same plane.

I'm guessing that she has chosen them as her friends so she can build herself up. She can be the one that knows things. She can be the authority. That she can also get out of control, and not feel like they are judging her. I don't think that they grasp her true potential and abilities. I think she feels comfortable around them because they don't.

I have also noticed that she, sometimes, is more willing to put herself out to help one of them in a difficult situation than the others are. Like she is trying to prove that she is just a bit better than the others. But, when it comes time for her to have a disastrous life event, no one is willing to step up and help her. How many times had I heard about all she had done for B when her life seemed to be falling apart, but that now that she needed something, B was absolutely no help. (My ex can give lessons on how to keep score in the game of life.)

I've also noticed, much more clearly since the divorce, that when things are really going to he! for her that she will find a new friend, or friends, that are even more fu**ed up than she is.

Is this something common to pwBPD, or is it just my ex's own brand of crazy?

[free-n-clear]

   Sounds familiar. My uBPDxgf isn't as high-functioning as yours sounds - she struggles to hold down a job for more than a few months - but her 'friends' are, on reflection, even further down the chain when it comes to 'smarts'. Most of them are fellow alcoholics and/or drug-fv<ked losers.

[Waifed]

She had one steady friend throughout. I think she idolized her in a way but at the same time used her as a way to meet other people (future victims?). Her friend was not as pretty as her and I think that was important to her because it made her more confident when meeting others. She totally uses her friend who is very codependent. They are both trashy women with no self respect or morals.

[BorisAcusio]

She had one steady friend throughout. I think she idolized her in a way but at the same time used her as a way to meet other people (future victims?). Her friend was not as pretty as her and I think that was important to her because it made her more confident when meeting others. She totally uses her friend who is very codependent. They are both trashy women with no self respect or morals.

Sounds familiar. Her only so-called "friend" had OCD comorbid with other serious mental illnesses. They were very similar. Absolutely no moral compass, pathological liar, cheated on her husbend for years while she was staying at home as a housewife. Never had to work because the guy provided a great quality of life and got absolutely nothing in return, she wouldn't even iron his shirts. Clingy with no self esteem.

My ex used her as an emotional tampoo as on needed base. They enabled and encouraged each others bad behaviour because they both lacked any remorese, guilt, shame or morality.   

[DiamondSW]

Yes, lots of similarities.

ExBPDgf v low functioning.  3oyrs old, only 'worked' 7 mths in her life, reliant on mum for money.

Her friends were almost always much younger (early 20's), were students, foreign, in 'transit' through London and didn't have any careers, just odd jobs here and there.  Don't think she really had any stable professional types as friends.  She found comfort in other people having problems. 

Urgh, makes me realise what an idiot I was.  She saw me coming. 

[Johnny Alias]

   Sounds familiar. My uBPDxgf isn't as high-functioning as yours sounds - she struggles to hold down a job for more than a few months - but her 'friends' are, on reflection, even further down the chain when it comes to 'smarts'. Most of them are fellow alcoholics and/or drug-fv<ked losers.

All mine has left are party friends and one old one that is kind of her lap dog.  The rest?  She got drunk and raged at them one too many times so they bailed on her.  It's funny.  She's 43 and they're ALL younger.  They're growing as human beings and she is just STUCK on being the party slut still getting wasted on whatever she can get her hands on from week to week and still dressing like a 20 year old slut. 

Most people laugh at her now behind her back.  Her photography career has been obliterated as most want nothing to do with her and her reputation for being a drunk has not helped. 

She can always get new friends... . but let's be serious... . a serious PD individual cannot have FRIENDS.  They are merely tools to get her what she wants be it money, admiration, sex, validation, etc.  She doesn't care about them and can throw them away as easily as she does with relationships. 

On to the next sucker... .

[numbr3]

Mine had friends who were low lifes (including his brothers.)  Druggies, alcoholics, pornographers, one in prison.  He had one old friend who would always irritate him.  I asked why he stayed friends with him.  xBPD said because friend was more F'd up than him.  Sometimes their clarity is frightening!

He also hung out with "friends" much younger. He is 50 vs.20's.  He admitted his immaturity.

He really didn't relate to guys his age-he was too irresponsible and I think they made him feel inferior.

I definitely think it took him up a notch to be better than every loser he hung out with.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

I've been bouncing around a few of the threads tonight, and something reminded of what my exdBPDw's mother said to me once. With out the ex in the room, her mother told me that my ex had never had any close friends that were as smart as she is. That she always chose to get close to friends not quite as smart. At the time, I just kind of let it go as her mother being the judgmental busybody she is, with an over appreciation of her daughter's intelligence.

Now that I know more about my ex's disorder, it got me to thinking.

My ex is a very bright, and intelligent woman. There's no denying that fact. Sometimes she's too smart for her own good. Especially when you factor in the disorder. She can do just enough (or too much) research to talk herself into, or out of, just about anything.

Now, I look at the close friends she has had since before we met. They aren't quite as intelligent as my ex. They're not dumb by any means, most have a college degree. But, they aren't very sophisticated and don't have a thirst for knowledge, a desire for greater understanding of the world around them, or a solid handle of current events. They're not stupid, or bad people. I really like some of them. They just don't exist on the same plane.

I'm guessing that she has chosen them as her friends so she can build herself up. She can be the one that knows things. She can be the authority. That she can also get out of control, and not feel like they are judging her. I don't think that they grasp her true potential and abilities. I think she feels comfortable around them because they don't.

I have also noticed that she, sometimes, is more willing to put herself out to help one of them in a difficult situation than the others are. Like she is trying to prove that she is just a bit better than the others. But, when it comes time for her to have a disastrous life event, no one is willing to step up and help her. How many times had I heard about all she had done for B when her life seemed to be falling apart, but that now that she needed something, B was absolutely no help. (My ex can give lessons on how to keep score in the game of life.)

I've also noticed, much more clearly since the divorce, that when things are really going to he! for her that she will find a new friend, or friends, that are even more fu**ed up than she is.

Is this something common to pwBPD, or is it just my ex's own brand of crazy?

Hi that1guy,

I have done a lot of research on NPD because although BPD fits some of the bill for mine NPD does even more.  My conclusion so far is that he is NPD/BPD with a twist of psychopathy. I am not joking.

Anyway, Your statements to me scream of NPD traits. Very similar to what I experienced. Everything they do is in the quest for narcissistic supply.it is their drug.

-choosing people that aren't quite as intelligent so they are always smarter ie. superior. (NS) and if you are as smart that is why I think they try to bring you down or diminish you. They can't have that.

-doing good deeds for people so that she gains everyone's admiration((NS)have you happened to notice these good deeds are mainly done in a public way. Has she ever done anything nice like I mean really going out of her way unless there was some reward.

-always being the victim because no one is as good to people or does as much for people as she does (NS)

- yes they are master scorekeepers. And they are always ahead of everyone.

Her mother is a major source of NS supply it sounds like. My ex's family were the worst. They idolized him for the things he did for them even though they know he is very troubled because they were rewarded with the good deeds. ( and their looking the other way) it's very reciprocal.

Even negative attention is NS. The worse thing for a narc. Is ignoring or apathy.

The hardest thing to recognize is the narcissist who seems to do good things for people right? Because we see narcissists as being selfish.  They sometimes call this "covert narcissism" .  These I think are the most dangerous and insidious kinds because they are like " a wolf in sheeps clothing". They have an alterior motive.

I think on this site everyone tends to think BPD automatically because a lot of the traits overlap and it is of course a BPD site but I sometimes see what I think are distinct differences. The reason I think it is important is I think their is a huge difference in motives. Either way clusterB and not good for us at all to say the least.

Just my thoughts.

[musicfan42]

That1guy- I think that your ex has low self-esteem. I can relate to all of your ex's behaviors and I was actually diagnosed with low self-esteem.

Low self-esteem isn't in the DSM however it can lead to stress, anxiety and depression so it's important to treat the underlying low self-esteem before it gets out of hand.

Borderlines can have co-morbid disorders. BPD is an Axis II diagnosis however they can still suffer from Axis I disorders too like depression etc.

I disagree with the diagnosis of "covert narcissism" that Iwalk-Heruns has given. I think this forum is overly obsessed with narcissism and diagnosing people with various personality disorders when really, it may be a less serious issue. Not everything is pathological. If someone has treated you badly, then fair enough but is that really enough evidence for a personality disorder? I appreciate that BPD is a serious issue however I would urge people to use discretion.

In my time on the board here, I've been asked whether I have PTSD (I don't!) and also directly called a narcissist merely because I made a comment that someone disagreed with. (There's no way I'm a narcissist). So I really take all these diagnoses with a pinch of salt. We are NOT psychiatrists or psychologists. We don't have the right or authority to diagnose anyone.

Our job is to set boundaries- stand up for ourselves and not put up with unacceptable behavior. I feel that obsessing over someone else's mental issues definitely crosses boundaries and just steps into "their stuff" when really, we should be focusing on our own stuff. Everyone has enough issues to press on with without wondering what someone else is doing.

[Iwalk-Heruns]

That1guy- I think that your ex has low self-esteem. I can relate to all of your ex's behaviors and I was actually diagnosed with low self-esteem.

Low self-esteem isn't in the DSM however it can lead to stress, anxiety and depression so it's important to treat the underlying low self-esteem before it gets out of hand.

Borderlines can have co-morbid disorders. BPD is an Axis II diagnosis however they can still suffer from Axis I disorders too like depression etc.

I disagree with the diagnosis of "covert narcissism" that Iwalk-Heruns has given. I think this forum is overly obsessed with narcissism and diagnosing people with various personality disorders when really, it may be a less serious issue. Not everything is pathological. If someone has treated you badly, then fair enough but is that really enough evidence for a personality disorder? I appreciate that BPD is a serious issue however I would urge people to use discretion.

In my time on the board here, I've been asked whether I have PTSD (I don't!) and also directly called a narcissist merely because I made a comment that someone disagreed with. (There's no way I'm a narcissist). So I really take all these diagnoses with a pinch of salt. We are NOT psychiatrists or psychologists. We don't have the right or authority to diagnose anyone.

Our job is to set boundaries- stand up for ourselves and not put up with unacceptable behavior. I feel that obsessing over someone else's mental issues definitely crosses boundaries and just steps into "their stuff" when really, we should be focusing on our own stuff. Everyone has enough issues to press on with without wondering what someone else is doing.

Musicfan,

I certainly hope it didn't sound like I was diagnosing because I wasn't. I stated it was my thoughts. And my experience. And I just listed patterns of behavior that supported that. Of course there is a spectrum and I did not say she was pathological.

However, as far as diagnosing or being overly obsessed with PD's with all due respect this is a site devoted to a PD. So the assumption is that anyone on here assumes by experience and symptoms that their ex has a PD or has been diagnosed. Most of us here have ruled out depression alone anyway and there are sites available that are devoted to this. Not to mention depression and low self esteem alone is not to blame for repeated patterns in life of treating people extremely abusively and callously. My thoughts are also not Unchartered waters as some of them are from this site, my well respected therapist ... .

Personally, also saying obsessing over someone else's stuff kind of sounds condescending. It is very important to understand what happened to us so that 1 we don't go back and 2 are able to heal. For me it has nothing to do anymore with understanding him but understanding what happened to me. It has crucial to my healing.

Also, my point was it's not automatically BPD it could be npd. I think everyone here is smart enough to use their own discretion when hearing peoples thoughts.

As far as not diagnosing you just did that in reverse by saying you disagree.

In the end it's all just our opinions. You kind of discounted the whole point of being on this site at all.

BTW, that1guy ASKED if it was normal BPD stuff or not? Just my response and thoughts.

[musicfan42]

You kind of discounted the whole point of being on this site at all.

No I didn't. I merely disagreed with your opinion.

[Waifed]

I've been bouncing around a few of the threads tonight, and something reminded of what my exdBPDw's mother said to me once. With out the ex in the room, her mother told me that my ex had never had any close friends that were as smart as she is. That she always chose to get close to friends not quite as smart. At the time, I just kind of let it go as her mother being the judgmental busybody she is, with an over appreciation of her daughter's intelligence.

Now that I know more about my ex's disorder, it got me to thinking.

My ex is a very bright, and intelligent woman. There's no denying that fact. Sometimes she's too smart for her own good. Especially when you factor in the disorder. She can do just enough (or too much) research to talk herself into, or out of, just about anything.

Now, I look at the close friends she has had since before we met. They aren't quite as intelligent as my ex. They're not dumb by any means, most have a college degree. But, they aren't very sophisticated and don't have a thirst for knowledge, a desire for greater understanding of the world around them, or a solid handle of current events. They're not stupid, or bad people. I really like some of them. They just don't exist on the same plane.

I'm guessing that she has chosen them as her friends so she can build herself up. She can be the one that knows things. She can be the authority. That she can also get out of control, and not feel like they are judging her. I don't think that they grasp her true potential and abilities. I think she feels comfortable around them because they don't.

I have also noticed that she, sometimes, is more willing to put herself out to help one of them in a difficult situation than the others are. Like she is trying to prove that she is just a bit better than the others. But, when it comes time for her to have a disastrous life event, no one is willing to step up and help her. How many times had I heard about all she had done for B when her life seemed to be falling apart, but that now that she needed something, B was absolutely no help. (My ex can give lessons on how to keep score in the game of life.)

I've also noticed, much more clearly since the divorce, that when things are really going to he! for her that she will find a new friend, or friends, that are even more fu**ed up than she is.

Is this something common to pwBPD, or is it just my ex's own brand of crazy?

Hi that1guy,

I have done a lot of research on NPD because although BPD fits some of the bill for mine NPD does even more.  My conclusion so far is that he is NPD/BPD with a twist of psychopathy. I am not joking.

Anyway, Your statements to me scream of NPD traits. Very similar to what I experienced. Everything they do is in the quest for narcissistic supply.it is their drug.

-choosing people that aren't quite as intelligent so they are always smarter ie. superior. (NS) and if you are as smart that is why I think they try to bring you down or diminish you. They can't have that.

-doing good deeds for people so that she gains everyone's admiration((NS)have you happened to notice these good deeds are mainly done in a public way. Has she ever done anything nice like I mean really going out of her way unless there was some reward.

-always being the victim because no one is as good to people or does as much for people as she does (NS)

- yes they are master scorekeepers. And they are always ahead of everyone.

Her mother is a major source of NS supply it sounds like. My ex's family were the worst. They idolized him for the things he did for them even though they know he is very troubled because they were rewarded with the good deeds. ( and their looking the other way) it's very reciprocal.

Even negative attention is NS. The worse thing for a narc. Is ignoring or apathy.

The hardest thing to recognize is the narcissist who seems to do good things for people right? Because we see narcissists as being selfish.  They sometimes call this "covert narcissism" .  These I think are the most dangerous and insidious kinds because they are like " a wolf in sheeps clothing". They have an alterior motive.

I think on this site everyone tends to think BPD automatically because a lot of the traits overlap and it is of course a BPD site but I sometimes see what I think are distinct differences. The reason I think it is important is I think their is a huge difference in motives. Either way clusterB and not good for us at all to say the least.

Just my thoughts.

I do think that a lot of the waifs probably have covert narcissistic traits.  It is very similar to passive aggressiveness which is a common characteristic of many PD people with a little lack of empathy sprinkled in.  Really they are all just labels and the bottom line is the way we were treated by our pwBPD is all that we really need to know about them.  My P doesn't like to use labels and I kind of understand why.  It is what it is.  I have spent countless hours trying to figure all of this out.  I have read until I am finished researching.  It is a process and I think most of us need to go through it for our own sanity.  I finally realize that I can't change her but I can change myself.  It is a long road but what are the options!

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Waifed,

I do agree with you and your t to a certain degree about probably in the end the label does not really make a difference ( or shouldn't).

However, for some reason it does for me. I think the reason I am so stuck on the label is that the more I found out about what my ex did to me I think I was deliberately targeted. I don't believe this is paranoia. I have some well documented proof. When I thought it was just BPD ( after first discard) I think I had a feeling that a lot was out of his control. A lot of emotional deregulation. So it made me almost feel sorry for him and not angry. Which led me to go back to him for another year of abuse that has really damaged me.

I personally believe that there is a difference in motive in theses different PD's . Once I started learning more about the different behaviors and motives it really helped me so much in the healing and detaching process. It made it make more sense. For me this was a life or death realization because as much as I hate to admit it I was still attached to him and he could have very well destroyed me. I still see him around and the other day he was standing outside my grocery store where he knows I shop and I think probably wanting to see if I would reengage. So I think I am hyper vigilant to not let that happen. It also sent me back a little in my healing.

I think because I believe I was targeted I might come off as angry or severe now instead of compassionate. ( I used to be way too compassionate to him for my own good) It is part of my defense mechanism. I actually stopped posting for a few weeks because I didn't want to come off that way for people that may have had a different situation.  That is why when I hear someone's story that seems more npd I feel compelled to say that. Of course not diagnosing but maybe just raising a red flag for further thought.

In the end it is still a process for me.  I am hoping one day it doesn't matter what it was. I'm getting there.

[that1guy]

Thank you everyone for your comments!

I asked the question because it was something that struck me recently. My ex has been diagnosed BPD. If I remember correctly, I was at her therapy session when her lcsw first floated the diagnosis. It wasn't stated very strongly. It might have been the fact that my ex was in the room, and I wasn't the client.

Since a recent contact with my ex, and her near total breakdown on my doorstep, I have been researching her diagnosis to gain a better understanding of what had happened in our relationship, and where things went wrong.

I have learned a lot about PDs recently. I have come to understand that there were some things that I had been doing right, for quite a while. And that there were things I was doing wrong. Especially towards the end.

It came down to the fact that I had been trying very hard for a very long time and finally got worn down. I didn't know enough about the PD to make any informed decisions, or have any guidance with coping skills or tools to try. In the end I just basically shut down.

I'm taking this opportunity to learn what I can so I can make better, informed decisions, in the future. Hindsight is 20/20. It's the fool that doesn't learn from the past that is doomed to repeat it.

[Pinoypride18]

I don't think it has to do with similarities but those who are as damaged in some way as her my BPDex. One group of friends she had were reckless and heavy drinkers, another group were the sluts with daddy issues, and then their are the ones she can easily manipulate.

She can hang out with the reckless ones and drink all night

She can hang with the girls with daddy issues, party and sleep around

Then she can hang with the ones who are easily manipulative and get them to do things for her

But regardless of who it is the BPD is just using them. Mine was only friendly when she needed something from someone. And they don't have long lasting friendships. As soon as they are out of her life she forgets them. She could have a new group of friends every week. And she is also a chameleon. Since she have no identity she would take on traits of those groups of friends.

[love4meNOTu]

My ex really didn't have any close friends. Just one, a guy he befriended at work. But we never really got together and hung out. The friend was so negative though it was hard for me to be around him. I liked him ok though, and his wife was very nice. My ex called her a c&nt once and I was shocked... . But heck, when I started to see the real person my ex was (not much there honestly) everything he did just seemed so self-serving. And odd. And just "talk".

My ex would spew on and on about honesty, and this is a guy who lied to himself on a daily basis. That he was a good father, person , ha! A good husband, ha! and a good provider, double ha ha!

Man oh man... . why do we believe the lies they spin. About their past... . ugh. Their friendships are so superficial, the friend never really sees the lies, they validate him and continue on the cycle... .

L

[free-n-clear]

Her friends were almost always much younger ... .  

 It's funny.  She's 43 and they're ALL younger. They're growing as human beings and she is just STUCK on being the party slut ... .

He also hung out with "friends" much younger. He is 50 vs.20's.

   Hmmmm... .  This was the case with my xgf too. Her 'best' friend is 24 (xgf is 40). What they do have in common is partying, drinking, drug use, promiscuity, both delinquent mothers who've left their parenting obligations to the various fathers, ... .

   Perhaps we should regard a tendency to have younger 'friends' as a  when assessing potential new partners.

[Turkish]

The only close friend mine has is one she's had since high school, and I would not term it that close by my standards. Mine from the same are are effectively brothers, and they feel the same. She isn't really close to any of her siblings... . under the surface. Her friends she met through work, but they all live far away now. She is intelligent enough, a seeker,.and very determined, which makes her good at her work. She has strong narc traits (maybe covert, like Waifed said), but doesn't fit the NPD mold. Despite being a seeker, she also exhibits what to me is a shallowness (obsessed with fashion mags, shopping, and now workout mags... . I mean obsessed). She was finally diagnosed with depression (which was no surprise to me musicfan :^), but I am positive about the uBPD. Her words, her actions, and even the things she wrote in her journals... . reads like out of a textbook. Add to that she's even admitted to me she is "sick" under zero prompting from me. But to agree with musicfan, the label is only important to focus ourselves on understanding the behaviors and how to deal with them. I tell newbies this sometimes, too, if they seem overly focused on the uPD, or even the dPD.

To bring it back to the subject, mine chose her new little buddy because of his youth and inexperience. She can no longer manipulate me, so she chose youth and inexperience to seduce, though I strongly suspect he might be an NPD/BPD himself, like her last narc bf.

The weird thing is that I may have put it in her head that he may have an attachment disorder, then the same day she searched on the internet and diagnosed herself with some kind of attachment disorder (I witheld comment), I think, in a weird way to mirror him. What a mess!

Fwiw, she and I are of the same educational level, but I'm a lot smarter than she. In relationships? She thinks I'm an idiot. I still don't know... . that lingering FOG.

[mgl210]

One of my x's so called friends... . is exactly like her sorta... They are both really stubborn and refuse to take any ownership over what they've done wrong. Trying to talk to this so called friend of hers and get her to see that there is more than what my x's rant about the rs is virtually impossible. My x refused to take any ownership over what she did wrong, Oh wait. she would but probably like .05 percent of the time... .

[Pinoypride18]

I agree hanging out with much younger people is a red flag. My exBPDgf (25) has dated younger guys, i am one of them (24) she also has had much younger roommates. Her last two roommates were 17 and 19 years old. She tends to mirror them as well and so she acts like teenager at times.