I'm starting to get it.

[buddy1226]

Something is starting to click bout all . I've been stuck in anger and sadness for a long time. The overall picture with NC started out good but lately it's not been so great. Once we made contact and saw each other it was like the flood gates opened and the obsession was worse than ever. This is true of any addiction and and much of this is indeed addiction. For me anyway.

What has clicked though is that I am starting to get that she is disordered. Mentally ill. Yes I can get furious and hate her for the awful things she did but I don't think she could help it. Reading posts from 2010 I have begun to understand that it is compulsion. I always said that whatever the worst possible thing she could do to hurt me during her episodes is what she would do. She even told me once after she kicked me out on a dime after 60 days of marriage that at some point it was beyond her control. I noticed that about a lot of her mean behaviors. She had a different look to her, could not be reasoned with at all and God forbid she had someone fanning her flames and she always did, her ex.

It's always been like this with her. Did she love me? Yeah, she did and still does in some sick way. I love her too. But I hate her ways if that makes any sense. I can think of many times when I was the lover of her life and she was being honest and sincere (I know the difference) and withing a week she was ending it. I blamed alot of her stuff on adderall and alcohol. She was completely different without it. The times she would try to quit though she was a complete basket case. I'm not talking about ADHD I mean complete basket case. I thought she never gave it enough time. Two weeks was the longest without the pills and she still drank like a fish then. And with the pills she was the evil witch that I hate.

The mirroring phase was great but looking back it was thinly vailed. I saw through it and was aware of the red flags. Granted I didn't know of the extent of her psychopathy but I knew enough not to get involved. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

But this is who she is. A very dysfunctional and troubled woman. I put my life and heart in her hands and gt hurt really bad. But isn't that how that is supposed to play out? I have to look at myself and why I allowed that. I know really. I had just came out of a four relationship and was lonely and on paper she and I worked. I'm wiser now. That is a childish notion.

I basted her pretty bad via email a week or so ago. I regret that now. I used all that I've learned about BPD and hit her at her core.

The nature of our split was such that she abused in every way then just took off leaving me in a house we just moved to. Taking her son that I loved and left. Oh and false CDV charges hanging. No conversation, no nothing. So I had a lot of built up anger that I had just stuffed. I would like to have those words back now but I can't. I would apologize but I know how that goes. She told me about her last BF when we first starting dating that blasted her via email. He tried to apologize and she relished in torturing him with it. I'm painted black as midnight now.

But I've accepted that it is what it is. I don't think I'll ever hear of let alone experience anything close to this again. I still have my moments but I think the fog is starting to lift. I attribute it to these boards. I practically have lived on here for the past couple of months and my brain is saturated with BPD knowledge. I'm grateful this forum exists. Thank you all very much.

[dragonsfire]

buddy,

You know being angry is one of the stages of getting through this.  It'll go, it'll come back, it'll go again.  Happy day, sad day.  Just reading this post you seem to be very self aware!  That's a good thing!  She was [url=https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0]Triangulation[/b][/url].  :)on't regret what you've already said to her.  She hurt you man.  You did her a huge favor by giving her some information that could help.  But don't think that YOU can solve the problems.  :)on't you see what she was doing from the VERY beginning now?  She was talking to her ex and he was trying to do the same thing as you.  Apologizing!  It's the cycle she's in.  She will not get out of the cycle on her own.  And you can't analyze this to the point that you'll come up with a solution for it.  You've done incredible amounts of work trying to figure out what the problem is.  I myself, with my exGF who I think has BPD went through a year of recycles and it was very inconsistent but I started seeing patterns in her overall behavior and personality.  I got smart thanks to seeing a therapist who was very good.  My ex triangulated, just like yours.  I got fed up with her lies, name calling, Triangulation me and her ex, recycling, using me and gaslighting that I went NC a dozen times but she would show up on my doorstep wanting something (mainly to tell me all about how her life is horrible right now and she loves me) like clockwork.  It would drive me bonkers myself because I felt I really loved her.  I was ruminating over her for too long.  The last time I saw her, she told me that she broke up with her ex and wanted me.  She even said she wanted to have sex right then and there.  This is how sick this kind of stuff is.  It's compulsive, cruel and so childish at times!

So let her paint you black.  You are SO much better off and you will see that in time.  I too thought my ex was the love of my life.  Yea, we had a close bond that was unhealthy and it was for the most part magical wishing.

[Mutt]

What do you mean that you hit her at her core by learning everything about BPD? From my personal experiences with my ex is that she has a very different POV than I and there are a series of defense mechanisms that protect the ego.

I've felt bad as well for lashing out by e-mail and it's understandable. You are hurt and cared for this person very much.

She was [url=https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0]Triangulation[/b][/url]

Hello dragonsfire.

I just wanted to point out that we all need to be mindful when we use terms. There's not enough information to say that buddy122f  was being triangulated. It's too easy to absolve our responsibility by using terms  and making ourselves look like victims.  I just wanted to say that I've been guilty of doing this in the past as well. By re-framing my thoughts, taking responsibility for my actions in the r/s (it really takes two) have I gotten to a point where I don't use terms to be made out as a victim.

[buddy1226]

Mutt, Im very familiar with what the term Triangulation means. I was triangulated. there was an ex the childs father that was good one week and the devil the next. At times when we were not doing weel this is who she would confide in. Then the next week or two I was on the pedistal and he was out. It was the most clear cut example of Triangulation I've heard of. When I first started learning about BPD, over a year ago, it was a huge ahh-ha moment.

And I'm no victim either. I allowed myself to pursue a relationship, deeper, and deeper with a eoman that I knew to be very troubled. i lied to myself and made excuses for her and overlooked red-flags-a-plenty. Water finds it's own level so I am very much responsible for the situation I find myself in. But she is still the craziest person I've ever known and I was not fully aware of the depth pf her psychopathy.

[Mutt]

Mutt, Im very familiar with what the term Triangulation means. I was triangulated. there was an ex the childs father that was good one week and the devil the next. At times when we were not doing weel this is who she would confide in. Then the next week or two I was on the pedistal and he was out. It was the most clear cut example of Triangulation I've heard of. When I first started learning about BPD, over a year ago, it was a huge ahh-ha moment.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood. Can you help me understand what Triangulation that I missed in the OP? Thanks.

[buddy1226]

The ex fanning her flames anytime there was discontent. It was an awful dynamic. As well as having to walk on eggshells with her, I had to make sure my relationship with him was looked after. Always wondering what angle he was working.

[Mutt]

The ex fanning her flames anytime there was discontent. It was an awful dynamic. As well as having to walk on eggshells with her, I had to make sure my relationship with him was looked after. Always wondering what angle he was working.

I interpretated the ex fanning her flames as a misconception. It's in the article that you linked.

Misconceptions  Some members think of "Triangulation" as a dysfunctional BPD behavior perpetrated on them by a person with BPD - and why not - this is how we see triangles when we are in them and the '"odd man out" . Seeing it this way is exactly the opposite of what we want to do to end the drama.

Triangles are all around us. This was Bowen's point.  And while it is true that some Triangulation can be dysfunctional - Triangulation is most often functional or benign.  

What does [url=https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0]Triangulation mean?[/url]

My apologies OP for hijacking your thread a little bit, but I just wanted to point out to be careful with assuming that Triangulation is a BPD behavior perpetrated on us.

[buddy1226]

Simply put, when a two-person relationship becomes unstable the individuals will tolerate only a small amount of tension before they involve a third person. The resulting triangle can hold much more tension because the tension can shift around the three relationships.

Bowen's observations are incredible.  We all do this.  Triangles often help us cope.

Sometimes, however, Triangulation can cause more turmoil in the relationship, causing further communication difficulties and conflict. According to Bowen''s Theory, a triangle creates an ‘odd man out,’ which is a very difficult position for individuals to tolerate. Anxiety generated by anticipating or being the odd one out is a huge force in triangles.

In calm periods, two people become comfortably close "insiders" and the third person is an uncomfortable "outsider." If tensions increase, insiders more actively exclude the outsider and/or the outsider may work to get closer to one of the insiders. If the tension is too much for one triangle to contain, it spreads to a series of "interlocking" triangles.

Yes. This is exactly what I experienced.

[Skip]

I don't know where to start because so much has happened since my first date with my, now soon to be ex wife. We dated for six months and it was a roller coaster ride from hell. I had just came out of a four year relationship that I thought had it's share of drama. I was at a very vulnerable place and had no idea what I was in for. From the very start I noticed she was a heavy drinker. She drank and took adderall and klonipan every day... . In the 6 months of dating we broke up often.  Our final breakup lasted two months before I sent her an email on New Years Eve telling her no hard feelings. I missed her like crazy but nothing like I do now. She showed up and my place minutes after the email and we were married on January 26, 2013. It was great for  couple of weeks but the drinking started again after a couple of weeks. When I confronted her about it that discussion turned into her throwing me out of her house. This was 60 days into marriage. I was devastated and could hardly function. I went NC for about a month and I called her. She told me that she had been pregnant with my baby and miscarried. We got back together and lived separately for a few months. It was a gloroius reuniting... ,  So we moved into a new house this past September. The move was awful and we were fighting bad. The first night in the house she had been drinking she went into a crazy rage and did a lot of insane things. I went to bed thinking she had left when she came back in. She dialed 911 and laid the phone on the counter before coming in the room and picking a fight with me. I didn't say anything that I cared for them to hear but they came to the house as is customary when the call is made. They assessed the situation and left. She apologized the next day. As usual I accepted it and was willing to put it behind us. A few weeks later the bruises appeared again. We had had a bad week where she flushed her wedding ring, punched me several times in the face and told me she wanted to sleep with other men. She ended up calling the cops as usual and two women cops came out this time. Before they got there she tried to run me over in the car. Long story short is that they took both of us to jail and charged us with CDV.

There is a long history of extreme turmoil in this relationship and probably a lot of bad decisions all around... . would you agree?  

I basted her pretty bad via email a week or so ago. I regret that now. I used all that I've learned about BPD and hit her at her core.

I think I read earlier that you have a divorce settlement  (?) from her that you haven't acted on.  

I'm starting to get it.

There may be more than just her BPD at play here.  I know you said you were in AA.  She is drinking and abusing prescription meds.  You're both complicit in getting married after very rocky 4 month relationship and 2 month breakup.  Your both complicit in buying a house after very rocky six months of marriage and living apart for a significant art of that time...

Maybe the biggest thing is making a decision to end you side of the cycle of conflict - and not make anymore bad choices.

But I've accepted that it is what it is.

Why are you holding off on signing the papers?  Are you able to let go? 

When there is a lot of recycling (blowout crashes, glorious reunions), it gets really hard to know when it is over.  It's like, "one more drink than I'll stop"... . "one more recycle and it it doesn't work then I'm done."

Hang in there.   

[buddy1226]

You're right, Skip. I was complicit in some of the bad decisions.

I will sign the papers.

[Skip]

It's hard to let go of someone you love.  Add in loving innocent kids... .   This has to hurt like hell.  

[buddy1226]

The kid is what stings now. Letting go of her is passing, I think. So much has happened. If I try to recall the good times we had I would be going back close to a year and we split in November.

Rebuilding my life is the thing now. This has consumed me. I'm definitely obsessive and this script runs continuously in my mind. Anyone else would have cut bait long ago. That's addiction.

[LettingGo14]

The kid is what stings now. Letting go of her is passing, I think. So much has happened. If I try to recall the good times we had I would be going back close to a year and we split in November.

Rebuilding my life is the thing now. This has consumed me. I'm definitely obsessive and this script runs continuously in my mind. Anyone else would have cut bait long ago. That's addiction.

Buddy-- just remember you are not alone.  I participated in a crazy relationship for four years.  I knew it was crazy but I kept at it.  Sometimes she was crazy and sometimes I was crazy. 

I still feel emotional aftershocks.  Sometimes I'm mad at her for painting me black.  Sometimes I am mad at myself for clinging to her.  Sometimes I feel free.  Sometimes I accept.

You are not alone. 

[buddy1226]

Thanks Lettingo. That's how i feel. Sometimes she was crazy and sometimes I was. I have to admit that the painting me black thing bothers me. I hope I don't stay that way forever. I would like to talk to her later on in the future. We shared life for a while. TO dismiss that and hate each other would be a shame.

[Skip]

I helped raise two teenage boys and was the man in their life that walked with them  on their journey of grief when their father committed suicide.  I felt like a mama wolf howling at the moon when I lost them.  I still struggle a bit today.

And sometimes when you love something you show that love by cutting it loose - letting it go where it wants to go.  Your ex wants to go.  BPD, alcohol, pills, bad acts and all, she still deserves to be able to walk away from it.  And the legal system will stand behind that.

It's the codependent that fights that.  Mayo defines a co-dependent very simply as someone who wants a relationship more than their partner.  

Really hard, man.  I used to tell myself, release with grace.  Whatever didn't go right in the relationship for my part, I can show my sincere regret by releasing with grace.

Anyway, what are these legal papers that you have?  Is it a settlement offer?  Fair? Do you have an attorney?

[buddy1226]

We had no money or anything to split. The papers just end the marriage. No attorneys are involved since there is nothing to settle. From my understanding I just sign and wait until we go before the judge. She wants to say we split last April, which we did but got back a month later. That way we would be divorced in april instead of having to wait until November. Why not, you know.

[feelingcrazy7832]

I just wanted to say sorry you are going through this. Your post hit home for me. My exBPD also had a horrible addiction to pain pills and adderall and pretty much any pill he could get his hands on. When you are reacting to someone who's not only BPD but also addicted to drugs, your reactions are not going to be normal. You are not dealing with normal. Try not to beat yourself up for your reaction. I have regretted my reactions so many times. After explaining to my therapist what I did after the first few times I told her, she told me my reactions were normal. I told her it didn't feel too normal to say things like I said or do things I did and she had to remind me I was dealing with a drug addict.

[buddy1226]

Thanks, Feelingcrazy

That helps. It's easy for me to get wrapped in this BPD thing which is complicated and troublesome in and of itself but I have to remember that she is a hardcore drug addict/alcoholic. For the longest time I thought that was the problem. She is a basket case when she tries to stop and would never get any help. Refused the notion of it. Then I started to read up on BPD and found that substance abuse is common with the disorder.

She has put me and my family (as well as hers) through hell. I have to let her go. I honestly don't know how. To me that would mean not thinking about her. I don't know how to do that. This has become more than an obsession. Because of my life situation and things I have coming up I can't help but think about her non stop. It ranges from hatred to missing her.

[Tausk]

Hey Bud:

Just caught this thread.  Hang in there.  Remember the emotions are neutral, it's how we respond.  And from what I've seen and read from you over the past few weeks, you've been responding with great honesty, insight, and character.   And the first post that you wrote to start this thread was simply inspirational to me.   Thank You.

In the Big Book, there's a line that describes some people as "constitutionally incapable of being honest."  

Until I learned about BPD, I never agreed with this statement.  I always thought everyone was able to achieve recovery as I had, which included a level of self awareness and the ability to take responsibility and to change.  And in part, that is why I stayed as long as I did.  I thought she was like me.  I thought I could carry her.  I thought I could beat the Disorder.    

But what I've learned, and which has helped me to depersonalize the whole interaction, is that with me, my ex was incapable of self honesty.  She was not unwilling... . She was unable.   She simple doesn't have the capacity to process guilt and then change, especially while with me a trigger.  She never made it to that point in her emotional development as a child, and all she has left are the survival skills of a child stuck at about age three, and a traumatized one at that.  

It's so sad, and when I truly grasp the concept, I just scream and cry at the same time.  And I want to then help my ex and let her know that I know why things are the way they are... . but, then I have to let go and accept that it doesn't matter that I know, it's beyond me.  

The Disorder is beyond me.  

And so all I have left is to let go, and hope that my ex can find a way to navigate her nightmare of a world, and that she survives.   I would hope for happiness for her, but I think that's beyond her.  So I hope for minimal damage and suffering and hope that at least she survives.  And as 2010 says, they have to do it on their own... . go through their own abandonment depression.

But that leaves me with looking at myself.  Which can be another f'king opportunity for growth.  But, I do know that my work on myself over the past two years has resulted in growth that I could only imagine.  I'm doing so well overall.  I still have fleas, but honestly at a point that I could only dream about.

Sometimes, I fantasize that I'll meet her again and be able to share with her my new self, so that I might be able to rescue her.  But then I realize that the only thing I can really do for her is remain no contact, and continue to grow and find meaning in my life.

And I realize it's especially difficult for you with the child.  Ouch.    I'm sure that you love the child greatly and that you are a good influence.  And it hurts to wonder if you'll be able to be part of that child's life again.  But the best thing you can do for that child is to become as healthy as possible, so that if you are reconnected, you will be able to give love to the child without bringing the baggage of your relationship with the mother into your interactions.  

To be able to to truly separate your love for the child from the Disorder with your ex.  And to do that requires self growth and work.

And you are doing it.  It's clear.   And if you are able to be a part of the child's life again, I think you will be in a position to be able to continue to be a positive influence.  Recovery is possible.  I see it clearly in your writing of the past few weeks.  Keep hope and faith alive.  We deserve those principles today, because we have been doing the hard work that provides us the tools to grow.  

 

[buddy1226]

Thanks Tausk. It's a day at a time and doing the next right thing. I'm getting clearer but still have my moments. I'd be a wreck without you guys.

I will not be a part of the childs life. It would be too hard plus the father was jealous of me with his son. I sorta get that but it was to the degree that he would fan her flames no matter irrational she was.

It's a hard lesson learned. I should never have got involved. I knew better but underestimated the whole thing. I'm shaking the whole victim thing. She is sick but so am I on some level to have stayed through it all. This too shall pass.

[janey62]

Something is starting to click bout all . I've been stuck in anger and sadness for a long time. The overall picture with NC started out good but lately it's not been so great. Once we made contact and saw each other it was like the flood gates opened and the obsession was worse than ever. This is true of any addiction and and much of this is indeed addiction. For me anyway.

Hi Buddy,

Going right back to the first thing you said in this thread and having read all of what's been said here I just wanted to add my thoughts to it. 

You speak about obsession and addiction and I know a bit about those from working with addicts in recovery.  The one thing I've seen which I think works for them is what I've seen you doing here, exposing your feelings of obsession to scrutiny.  Searching honesty about the situation is a good thing, and exploring that here means you can't hide it from yourself.  I think its been a brave thing to open up and tell us all about it and I admire your honesty.

So the three things which any addict needs to recover are these:  abstinence, support and structure (ie. meaningful occupation).  You seem to have those things in place, though I'm assuming that.   The next stage is 'changes in behaviour', and this is the point.  You acknowledge and the others have helped you with this, that you have a part to play in the destructive relationship you've left behind, so changing your behaviour is all you can do, all any of us can do.  It's a slow process, but changing the way you think is the beginning, and you are doing that, then comes the feelings.  When we change the way we think it affects how we feel and eventually how we behave.

An example of this is happened to me the other day.  I was thinking about my ex, worrying about him, missing him, I began to feel sad and lonely so I texted him (behaviour).  He responded and before I knew it we were in conversation which started off cool and ended up with him begging me to have him back and me in tears and in the end having to just switch off my phone!

It all happened so quickly and afterwards I gave myself a good talking to and decided, no more thinking about him in that way.  I have to change that to thinking about me, it's the only safe thing to do!

Then hopefully the obsession will begin to wane, if we don't feed it.

Easier said than done, I know.   

Janey x

[buddy1226]

Hey Janey,

I'm glad you touched on this because it is the number  1 thing I struggle with now. The obsession. At first I thought that it was because what happened to me was so horrible that one could not help but think about it non stop. I have to get to a place where I accept that this is what happened and it's not the worse thing that has ever happened to someone. To "get over it".

I still wake up every day thinking about her and she is the last thing I think about when I go to sleep and all in between. I go through every possible range of emotions. I sometimes have overwhelming feelings to contact her and panic attics at the thought of it being "over for good". It's as is my life is on hold until I hear from her and at this point that is more unlikely with every passing day. Then my logical brain kicks in and tells me that is a good thing and eff her and I can work myself up in anger. This cycle runs non stop in various different ways.

I thought this would just wane with time but it isn't. I am glad to hear that I can control it and change my thoughts. That is the most dificult thing we do, I believe. It takes work. Thanks you your feedback. This is where I let the snakes out of my head.

[winston72]

Janey, what a helpful summary.  Thank you.  It is a variation on the stages of detachment that are listed on this site. 

In the broadest sense, I find that the principles of dealing with the end of this relationship apply quite broadly and powerfully to every part of living a full and healthy life.  The beginning point for all of this, and it is so simple but so huge, is "facing the facts."  Honesty.  A frank, accurate, balanced assessment of what is happening in my life, what I am feeling, what it means.  If I am continually chipping away at this task, than the rest follow.  The more I am in touch with what is actually happening within me, the more inclined I am to seek positive change. 

Janey, that was really helpful.  Thank you.

Buddy... . dude, you are making huge strides.  Your ongoing quest to deal with your life circumstances and this relationship has been very encouraging and emboldening.

[janey62]

Thanks Winston72 for your affirming words. 

It's funny how in reading something someone has posted and in attempting to help them work that out we are also working out our own stuff! 



Janey x

[janey62]

I still wake up every day thinking about her and she is the last thing I think about when I go to sleep and all in between. I go through every possible range of emotions. I sometimes have overwhelming feelings to contact her and panic attics at the thought of it being "over for good". It's as is my life is on hold until I hear from her and at this point that is more unlikely with every passing day. Then my logical brain kicks in and tells me that is a good thing and eff her and I can work myself up in anger. This cycle runs non stop in various different ways.

Hey Buddy,

I'm like this too, maybe in a slightly less intense way now, though I was at first.  It's only been a month since I left my bfwuBPD and it still feels pretty raw.

I don't know all of your history or how long you were together?  I was with mine for 18 months for most of which is was good with occasional bad until the last 4 months when it was mostly gut wrenchingly bad!  Also there were no children in my situation. 

But I still miss him every day and have that feeling of disbelief that I might never see him again.  That thought makes me cry every time I have it and it's hard to avoid so I let the tears come.  I think they are a vital part of the recovery too, the tears.  What happens to them if I stifle them?  Nothing good. 

You sound as if you are a bit frightened by the way you feel?  If so I can relate to that too.  I was terrified at first, but have gradually realised that I have to go through this.  It's normal to feel the way we feel and part of the healing process.

You just have to control how that makes you behave.  Keep doing the next right thing 

Janey x