Boundaries in action-examples?

[Bee Girl]

Hello,

I'm a brand newbie with an upwBPD.

I'm reading good information in these boards about setting boundaries. I was wondering if anyone is willing to share anecdotes and strategies about their boundaries in action. I certainly get the concept but am still struggling to understand what it looks like in a relationship a pwBPD.

I am thinking there is more to it than sleeping in another room until your partner apologizes and becomes more reasonable, so I'd appreciate any help in "getting it" and "getting it right".

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[Chosen]

Hi Bee Girl 

Hope you're finding the lessons of use here.  One boundary I have been practising with success is a boundary on shaming and name calling.

In the past, when my uBPDh is triggered, he would starts calling me the most horrible names under the sun.  I know it's meant to trigger me, and trigger me it did.  And things won't end well.  What this site teaches us is not to passively absorb abuses because it doesn't do the relationship any good. 

So what I started doing (took a long time and required a LOT of courage) was that when he started shaming me, I would say "I don't respond to name calling.  I am willing to talk when we can talk like adults.  I will not respond now."  Even if I couldn't physically get away, I would just not respond to him whenever he starts using those words again.  I would keep repeating the same sentence every time he starts the shaming.  If he is able to use proper language to talk to me, even though he may be loud (because he's dysregulated and angry), I will still talk to him, just not when he's swearing.

To be honest, they act out because they wanted some reaction.  And having no reaction and no conversation at all sucks.  So by doing that I'm letting him know that if he wants a conversation, he will have to stop using certain words (which he knows are bad, he's just doing to to trigger me when he's dysregulated.  That means he's deliberately not trying to control his speech).

Hope this helps!

[Grey Kitty]

Welcome Bee Girl,

Verbal/emotional abuse is an excellent area to start enforcing boundaries, especially because you will probably get some acting out when you start. (If you enforce a boundary on something else, you stand a good chance to be verbally abused next.)

The first thing is to understand that setting rules for a pwBPD is NOT the same thing as enforcing a boundary, and it won't have the desired effect.

A rule looks like ":)o not do X."

A boundary enforcement looks like "If you do X, I will do Y to protect myself."

Can you tell us more about a situation with your partner that you would like to apply boundary enforcement to? We can give you specific suggestions then.

Hang in there!

 GK

[thicker skin]

A boundary is about what we accept and don't.

If you x I'll do y isn't always a boundary.

For example, if you want to go out and your partner tells you that he will leave you if you do, that's control.

If he wants you to do as you are told and threatens to hurt you or a loved one if you don't, that's control.

Leaving a situation because you feel abused, is a boundary. Telling him to stop or you'll beat him over the head with a hammer is control.

If he wants to be rude and abusive, he can. You simply choose to not listen to it and go out for a while. He'll get the message and stop or you'll be going out a lot. You aren't choosing to go out because he is being pleasant... .

[Bee Girl]

Hello,

Thank you for your replies. I've learned the hard way that often the verbal abuse pattern is meant to incite me to respond in kind, and it took me awhile to stop taking the bait. Sometimes it's really hard not to at least defend myself again outrageous accusations... .

My boyfriend's 'episodes' seem to follow a pattern. He may have an angry outburst (I disagree with him, I show disapproval, or it's the middle of the night and I am taking up too much of the bed (not)) and he immediately starts into shaming abuse.

What happens next depends on my reaction: if I stay quiet or leave the room he'll keep trying to provoke me, if I try to defend myself all sorts of hell breaks loose, but he'll stay in an icy fury for a day. If I'm putting distance between us then I'm the one with the problem. At that point I think I'm suppose to apologize or act as if nothing's happened. I can sense his shame and denial. If I hold him to accounting for his behavior, then it cycles again until it seems like a fever breaks and he sincerely apologizes. Soon afterwards it's like nothing ever happened.

Where the boundaries come in: I've tried (after doing it completely wrong and shouting that he has to leave unless he stops, which just makes things nuclear, etc.) waiting until we are calm and talking to him about it. That really helps and he's started/resumed therapy. But it feels like what I am telling him that I need doesn't stick, or goes out the window when an episode gets triggered. I made it clear that I wouldn't tolerate the c word, for example. It's a dealbreaker, I told him, but sure enough I heard it again. That was a clear boundary, but only halfway: "If" was articulated but the "then" was he has to leave (he is living in my home) but that doesn't work, because he desperately agrees to work harder, etc. So the "then" becomes I sleep in another room and we are distant but still interact somewhat normally. It just takes time for me to feel comfortable again (though I no longer quite get there).

I know there's incremental progress. He's back in therapy and seeing a psychiatrist soon.

I guess what I'm getting to (forgive the rambling) is that I'm not clear on when to resume business as usual after a boundary violation because this is what I am doing to stay comfortable, not to force my hand and get him back into therapy (which is actually what the end result was). So I sense he thinks I should forgive him and get over it, and though I have, I still need time to recover myself.

Anyway, I feel like boundary setting and enforcing is where my work is, and in particular the "then" part of the process. I'm looking for more support and concrete ideas about implementing them.

thanks for listening.

[Bee Girl]

PS: and I appreciate, a lot, the responses I've gotten. Great advice, thank you.

[formflier]

 

I have recently started using a boundary that when i am threatened... I immediately leave the situation.

So... . in church... . "lean over hear and give me a good kiss... . or our marriage is over"... . i got up and walked out of the service and drove home.

On a vacation and I'm told that the baby is being sent to her parents house... . it's going to happen and I just need to "get over it".

I got in a car and drove away.  No drama... . just an exit.

Interestingly enough she decided not to send the baby away... .

Hang in there... . this boundary thing is still a moving target.

The only thing I think I have really figured out is that you should think boundaries through and once you start using them ... stick with them

[wbbb36]

I don't know where to start with boundaries, but I will start here. My wife does not handle stress well and she constantly asks me to help her/save her.  For example, there have been times when she has gotten lost driving, and she will call me up in a panic, screaming at me to help her.  If I can't for some reason (sometimes I just don't know where she is or must focus on work), she starts shouting at me, accusing me of never helping her and not caring about her welfare. This is a repeatable pattern:  eg.  problem at work, problem at home, problem with   cable/remote control, problem with her computer, problem with a service provider etc.

I realize that I am enabling her, but it is hard for me to watch her in such despair.  Yet, when I do try to help - either I can't solve the problem or can't solve it to her satisfaction.  If I say no, she gives me grief.  If I try, she gives me grief.  I can never win and become more resentful after each episode.  My heart races every time I see her calling me in the middle of the day, never knowing what crisis is next.   Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? 

[formflier]

I don't know where to start with boundaries, but I will start here. My wife does not handle stress well and she constantly asks me to help her/save her.  For example, there have been times when she has gotten lost driving, and she will call me up in a panic, screaming at me to help her.  If I can't for some reason (sometimes I just don't know where she is or must focus on work), she starts shouting at me, accusing me of never helping her and not caring about her welfare. This is a repeatable pattern:  eg.  problem at work, problem at home, problem with   cable/remote control, problem with her computer, problem with a service provider etc.

I realize that I am enabling her, but it is hard for me to watch her in such despair.  Yet, when I do try to help - either I can't solve the problem or can't solve it to her satisfaction.  If I say no, she gives me grief.  If I try, she gives me grief.  I can never win and become more resentful after each episode.  My heart races every time I see her calling me in the middle of the day, never knowing what crisis is next.   Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? 

Not exactly the same situation... . but I have certainly dealt with inappropriate work interruptions. 

Also... . I'm fairly new at this... so more senior members of this site... . please correct this advice if it is a bit off.

Step 1... . Before answering phone... . think through that you are going to keep the same tone of voice for the entire call.  Maybe prepare to show some sympathy... but that it is.  No "reaction"

Step 2.  Pleasant greeting, listen... . sympathize and validate (still learning this validate thing)... . and let her know that you will help her with this problem after work.  (note... this assumes not a real emergency)

Step 3.  Leave the phone  conversation.  Do not JADE (still working on this too)... . just tell her you love her and must get back to your work responsibilities.  Don't give in.


Personally I try to give concrete steps that I will take that evening or by some time.  "Let's make a decision about xxx in 2 days time after we have thought about it and discussed it"

Oh... and back to the "theory" of all this.  I think your statement about not handling stress well is important.  Don't help her... . you are responsible for handling your stress... . she is responsible for handling hers.  I certainly fell into the trap of wanting to "help"... . I was really enabling. 

[Grey Kitty]

thicker skin, you are correct--not everything in the form of "If you do X I will do Y to protect myself" is boundary enforcement. Good examples there.

I made it clear that I wouldn't tolerate the c word, for example. It's a dealbreaker, I told him, but sure enough I heard it again. That was a clear boundary, but only halfway: "If" was articulated but the "then" was he has to leave (he is living in my home) but that doesn't work, because he desperately agrees to work harder, etc. So the "then" becomes I sleep in another room and we are distant but still interact somewhat normally. It just takes time for me to feel comfortable again (though I no longer quite get there).

In this case "I won't tolerate the c word" is a rule, not a boundary.

Adding "You must leave when you break this rule" does not change it to boundary enforcement. Here would be an example of boundary enforcement (Not one that I recommend for you!):

If he used that word in your home, tell him he needs to leave the home immediately--it is your home and he is no longer welcome there. If he doesn't leave, call law enforcement to have him removed/evicted. This illustrates a limitation about enforcing boundaries--in some cases, you can only enforce the boundary by ending your relationship or contact with the person... . and the issue isn't that bad that it is worth it for you.



So let me give you some specific recommendations instead:

First, accept that he will use the c word if he chooses to, and you cannot force him to stop him from doing it.

All you can control your is your own actions.

Also accept that boundary enforcement is not always easy and free. In this case, removing yourself from him when he does this requires you to leave your bedroom, possibly even leave your house to him.

I'm going to guess that he only calls you that name when he is already upset and spooled up. It probably isn't the first angry word he says to you. A very good strategy would be to take a time out sooner when he starts to get upset. First it stops you and him from saying hurtful things to each other. Second, it will give you time to think about better ways to validate him or respond productively to him.

How to take a time out

Does this help?

[Grey Kitty]

she will call me up in a panic, screaming at me to help her.  If I can't for some reason (sometimes I just don't know where she is or must focus on work), she starts shouting at me, accusing me of never helping her and not caring about her welfare.

There is a line between support and enabling, and I think this slides across it. You do want to help your wife.

You don't want to be an emotional punching bag where she abuses you.

If you sense a phone call switching from a desperate panicked cry for help to attacking you, just say "I am not going to listen to you berating me." If she calms down enough to let you help her, continue helping her. If she continues attacking you, say goodbye and hangup.

If she calls back and starts berating, hang up again and don't answer the phone for a longer period of time (20 minutes or a couple hours)

Does that help you understand how to enforce a boundary?

[formflier]

  You do want to help your wife.

You don't want to be an emotional punching bag where she abuses you.

Hey... thanks... . very helpful explanation of how to break this into to principles.  Helping and not being abused.

I'm going to try and work that in my responses.

[Bee Girl]

Grey Kitty,

Yes, this helps enormously. As I'm reading (the time out link is great, thanks) I realize all the difference comes from the way I walk away, or disconnect. It's the angry disconnection version that fuels the fire, because it's an emotional abandonment. The challenge for me is to do it with love and respect. A matter of disengaging, but not disconnecting. This is really difficult for me because my fear and anger levels spike immediately ("here we go again", and it's difficult to access my compassion. Definitely where my work is. And as I notice just how difficult it is to me to access my wise self during a flare up, I realize it mirrors his struggle, too.

And the distinction between a rule and a boundary helps, too. The rule, I can see now, creates a hard line and more distance and invites conflict, whereas the boundary is more like an invitation or orientation to more cooperative and aligned living. It seems the trick is communicating the need from the right place.

I'm grateful for this very useful support.

[Bee Girl]

oh, and Chosen, I think responding to my boyfriend's shaming with my own version of shaming him right back (cutting myself off from him both emotionally and physically, in effect rejecting him) just continues the cycle, and doesn't work at all. Now that I understand the difference, taking a time out in the right way isn't a shaming mechanism, and doesn't make things worse. thanks!

[an0ught]

oh, and Chosen, I think responding to my boyfriend's shaming with my own version of shaming him right back (cutting myself off from him both emotionally and physically, in effect rejecting him) just continues the cycle, and doesn't work at all. Now that I understand the difference, taking a time out in the right way isn't a shaming mechanism, and doesn't make things worse. thanks!

exactly. The way boundaries are working in a continuing relationship is that we do the necessary to protect us and if we then still have choices we minimize the drama. Not necessarily the short term pain but the overall drama.

[tired-of-it-all]

It takes a little while to understand boundaries.  However they are the core to protecting our sanity.  Several basic examples come to mine:

If I am in a telephone conversation and someone begins to shout or speak abusively, I hang up.  It is that simple.  I don't have to listen, argue, or convince them I am right.  I don't owe them that control over me.

Similarly if they are abusive in person, I can state my case and leave. I can chose to not state my position.  Again, I don't owe her that authority over me.  It really doesn't matter what she says or thinks of me.

My spouse used to be physically abusive.  I was controlled by the embarrassment of others finding out.  I finally put a stop to it by saying, "Hit me again and I am calling the police!"  I meant it.  I don't care if we make the newspaper and everyone we know finds out.  I have set that boundary and will not tolerate her physical abuse.

If I want to go out, I don't give her the ability to ruin my evening by not going with me.  I no longer say, "Let's go to dinner."  I now say, "I am going to dinner.  Would you like to join me."  My evening does not hinge on her behavior.

I have work related events that I want and need to attend.  I cannot trust her to behave in a manner that will not negatively impact my career.  I no longer take her.  I take someone else, usually my grown daughter.  I don't make apologies to my wife for this.  It is her fault and not mine.  I don't advertise our problems to my work associates but I don't hide it either.  When pushed, I calmly state that my wife has mental issues and that I don't bring her to work related events.

There is a saying that I find powerful, "Say what you mean and mean what you say, but don't say it mean."  This means that if I give an ultimatum, back it up.  :)o it!  It also means that I don't have to shout, explain, beg, plead, or convince.  I state my position one time and that it that.