Does the lying ever end?

[ropend]

My sibling is now telling lies that are so blatant it's almost funny.

I don't suppose giving her an earful would help end the lying... . would it?

[HappyChappy]

I understand, sometimes BPD believe their lies to be true, such is their ability to live in the fantasy world. Sometimes they don't. Either way - they arn't going to take the mask off, so they arn't going to admit a lie.  Jeffry Archer (British Polotician) believed to be BPD, lied in court and went to jail. Yet the offence he was covering was

I believe when they're flustered or under stress, the lies may be more desperate.

[Ziggiddy]

ropend - I don't think it does. Sometimes it takes new and sophisticated forms, sometimes it becomes transparent as child play. I find it quite curious when someone lies even when it's blatantly obvious and they don't seem to understand or really care that it is plain to everyone that they are lying.

From an outside perspective it can be quite useful to look at what they are lying about and take note of the motivation. this can be quite revealing especially if they are projecting.

Why would you want to 'give them an earful" -do you really believe it will make a difference to their MO? Or do you think it might be relieving to vent?

You might find it worthwhile to look into the information on emotional immaturity to help understand why they partake in those behaviours

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=60935.0

it is so frustrating to deal with isn't it? Good luck in keeping your cool when faced with it!

[deux soeurs]

ropend you have my sympathy.  My sister is a pathological liar among other things.  Sometimes it helps knowing we are not the only ones.  Hope it gets better... .

[SomerledDottir]

Ropend, for what it's worth, you have my sympathy, too.

With my uBPDsis, there are two issues, one for me is surmountable; the other, not so much.

The surmountable issue is that she has our now-deceased father painted so white that she can't possibly conceive that while he was with my mother, my mother believed he loved her.  But when my mother became pregnant with me, he wasn't so sure of his love anymore.  Nonetheless, he extricated himself from his marriage and offered to move my mother and me 2000 miles away and "take care of us".  My mother didn't want to take a newborn and herself that far away from her family, job and friends to be "taken care of" by a man who didn't love her, so she turned him down.  They argued about it, and we never heard from him again.  He remarried (happily) three years later, and had my sister the following year.  I grew up never knowing them, and he never told my sister or her mother about us.

When my sister found me last year, she heard this story and she understandably very painfully struggled to accept this side of our father.  This I understand and was very patient with.  She appeared to accept me, so I was OK.  I'm not 100% sure what triggered her apparent reversal, but I suspect it had to do with my gushing over a movie I saw with a similar plotline where the father brought the half-siblings together upon his death, and after some difficulties, they all lived happily ever after.  Looking back now, I can certainly see that my sister had intimacy and engulfment issues, and I can certainly see that me voicing my conviction that our dad intended to bring us together (he planned a trip here with them after his retirement, but he died 8 months before retirement) seemed to trigger her.  She rejected me as her sister at that point.  That was very hurtful, but not necessarily fatal to our relationship.  That was when the rage and lying that was fatal to our relationship started.

I stated my intention to take a DNA test to prove my identity.  That was when she fired back that our father's brother was actually my father and that I had been conceived when he had a custody dispute with his wife.  Sis claimed that wife had told her that.  Only problem is that I was two years old at the time of this visit -- don't you think if your soon-to-be-ex-husband kidnapped your kids and took them more than 2000 miles away you'd remember when he did it?  The kicker was that when sis's so-called convo with the ex took place, neither of them knew when I was born or conceived.  According to Sis, during this convo, ex-wife also said our uncle was a pedophile and Sis claimed that is why she sat on this story and didn't reveal it to me for more than six months -- she didn't want me to know my "real father" (our uncle) was a child molester.  She was trying to "protect me".

Then she twisted around some stuff I had told her in confidence about my childhood and used it to malign my mother.  Well, my mother is not perfect, but I do not allow anyone to attack her.   And those lies about my mum and uncle I cannot forgive.

Confronting the BPD about their lies?  My (limited) experience says good luck with that.  My sister claimed that she had spoken to "everyone who knew every move our father had ever made", and they all swore up and down he had never been anywhere near here during the conception period.  Of course, I could prove differently, and I also could prove uncle had brought the kids here when I was two years old -- didn't matter to Sis, she blew right past all that like I never said anything.  My poor mother dragged up alot of painful, private memories that should have died with her, in order to attempt to help me save my relationship with Sis.  To no avail.  It hurts me now that I had my mum drag up all those painful memories.  But she did it without flinching and it made no difference to Sis.  And naturally Sis ixnayed the DNA test -- who could argue with science?  Sis went NC with me at that point, but if she hadn't, I would have after all her ugly lies.  And she had the nerve to say she "didn't believe my mother's every word" -- same phrase she used about uncle -- how's that for projection?  No, Ropend, I'm convinced attempting to call the pwBPD on their lies is a very frustrating battle we can't win.  Please forgive my rant, as you can tell my feelings on this subject are a bit raw yet.  Good luck to you.

[ropend]

ropend - I don't think it does. Sometimes it takes new and sophisticated forms, sometimes it becomes transparent as child play. I find it quite curious when someone lies even when it's blatantly obvious and they don't seem to understand or really care that it is plain to everyone that they are lying.

From an outside perspective it can be quite useful to look at what they are lying about and take note of the motivation. this can be quite revealing especially if they are projecting.

Why would you want to 'give them an earful" -do you really believe it will make a difference to their MO? Or do you think it might be relieving to vent?

You might find it worthwhile to look into the information on emotional immaturity to help understand why they partake in those behaviours

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=60935.0

it is so frustrating to deal with isn't it? Good luck in keeping your cool when faced with it!

"Why would you want to 'give them an earful" -do you really believe it will make a difference to their MO? Or do you think it might be relieving to vent?"

relieving to vent.

I'm not going to do it though since it will do me no good.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, ropend,

It sounds like you are really frustrated that your sibling is not being truthful. I think that's understandable. One thing to keep in mind is that with BPD, feelings=facts. So whatever your sibling is feeling will shape the way he sees the facts. Disputing someone else's reality is not very productive. Do you think your sibling is deliberately trying to deceive others, or does he believe what he says?  Does he have a BPD diagnosis?

We are here to find solutions. While we can't control other people's thinking or behavior, we do have the ability to examine and change our own. Do you think you have any expectations for your brother that might not be reasonable considering his disorder? Would you be willing to try allowing him to see things the way he sees them, even if you see the facts differently?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[ropend]

Hi, ropend,

It sounds like you are really frustrated that your sibling is not being truthful. I think that's understandable. One thing to keep in mind is that with BPD, feelings=facts. So whatever your sibling is feeling will shape the way he sees the facts. Disputing someone else's reality is not very productive. Do you think your sibling is deliberately trying to deceive others, or does he believe what he says?  Does he have a BPD diagnosis?

We are here to find solutions. While we can't control other people's thinking or behavior, we do have the ability to examine and change our own. Do you think you have any expectations for your brother that might not be reasonable considering his disorder? Would you be willing to try allowing him to see things the way he sees them, even if you see the facts differently?

Wishing you peace,

PF

"with BPD, feelings=facts"

I'll try to remember that.

PS can't figure out how to change my signature  will try some more.

[deux soeurs]

I also have gotten no where when confronting BPD sis with lies, boundary issues etc.  She will shoot off emails, texts but not talk to me. 

Thank you ropend for this thread and PF Change as I never really understood that for folks with BPD Feelings=Facts.  Good to remember this.