Dysregulates then heads out to the bar

[guitarguy09]

Does anyone else's BPDso do this? About once or twice a month without fail, we get into a big argument (usually about how much she hates my family), and no matter what I say or do she seems to get more po'ed and eventually just leaves. She usually goes to the bar or a girlfriend's house and comes back at 1:30 or 2 in the morning. I get really frustrated because we just got back from a trip to a family reunion where I stood up for her by bringing her, even though my family didn't want her to come. Now I'm at odds with my family because of that, even though she behaved very well (she usually does well in a setting with a lot of people). She was complaining last night about how I don't VERBALLY stand up to my family for her. She just doesn't get the concept that it's awfully hard to do that when she behaves the way she does around them and constantly tells them they are the problem!

The other reason this is frustrating is because she just takes off and I can't go anywhere because our 2yoS is sleeping and obviously I'm not going to leave him home alone. Instead of having a nice quiet evening after he went to bed, she had to bring up this very frustrating, beat-a-dead-horse topic and get me all riled up! 

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ceruleanblue]

Even people with BPD, have some genuine concerns. I feel my husband is undiagnosed BPD, and while I think that most of what he thinks is skewed thinking, I try to be open minded, and at least try to sympathize. I mean, to HIM, it's real. We can't argue with someone's feelings(although he does this with me, and it hurts). Feelings aren't always based on reality, and while those of us "nons" realize this, to those with BPD, feelings are their reality. When they let themselves feel, that is, and that usually leads to a blow up.

Have you tried validating her feelings? Three of my husband's four grown kids dislike me, and have been awful to me. ALL I want is for my husband to acknowledge my feelings and my hurt over this, but he can't or won't, probably due to his BPD. He can't empathize. I can empathize with his feelings for him kids, and he need to defend their bad actions(which feels yucky to do, let me tell you), but I do it because I don't want HIM to feel devalued like I do, and I want him to know that I do understand his view too.

Your wife is probably very hurt by your family, rightfully so or imagined. I know my husband can't "fix" the situation with his kids, but a little understanding my direction would make me feel better. Can you talk it over with her without her blowing up, and just blaming? She can't control what you do or say with your family(although it sounds like she wants to, or at least has expectations of you), but try validating her feelings? Maybe that would be enough? It would be for me, but then, I'm not BPD. I read a lot here about validating their feelings though. I'm trying that with my husband, but it's a work in progress. So far, he doesn't seem to care or notice. It's like he just enjoys being mad, and blaming me.

[Solechanger]

Wow, that is a huge problem my uBPDw has with me- Not standing up for her with my family.  She feels very threatened by them and thinks they are genuinely evil, meanspirited people at their core, and that I am "weak" because I don't "put her first" and stand up for her and set better boundaries with my mother especially.  She is very passionate about defending herself and many times when she feels threatened, I don't notice. Then she starts getting angry at me, and then decides to go on the offensive and flies into battle with her hair on fire.

Her defense of herself is actually pretty offensive.  It is seen as rude and disrespectful which isn't helpful for the family dynamic.  My family feels like they have lost me as their son and brother.  Sadly this is a result of me putting my wife first and not doing much with them because it seems always just too hard... . too much anxiety... . too much tension.  It's like walking through a minefield I often think. 

I don't know if she has BPD or not, but I do know from reading that I fit the mold for suffering all the symptoms of loving and living with someone who is hyper critical, blaming and has angry outburst that last for hours and hours where every third word is an F bomb and the nasty name-calling and devaluation is just too much to take.

Fortunately she doesn't shoot out to the bar, she doesn't leave. She wants to keep talking and keep berating me and verbally beating me into submission until I see things the way she does.  Problem is that sometimes I just don't see it that way and then "I'm the most clueless ___hole she's ever met."

I don't feel like I am well suited to give advice here, but I can relate to the problem of having your Family be a constant problem that comes up regularly.  That has been happening to me for 10 years.  Personally, it is hard for me because I constantly feel like like I am put in lose-lose situations with this scenario.  It is hard to stand up to her because she argues so vehemently and so I end up giving up things that I would rather not just to avoid a long drawn out battle.  I am working on it though, and I am going to try to make sure she feels validated. 

I can honor that her perception is her reality and the same with my mother.  I can empathize with both of them, but truth be told trying to reconcile both of their realities inside my head is very hard to do, and I end up feeling like I am betraying either my mother, my wife or myself in order to keep the peace.  It's worn me down and I've moved out of the house to try and sort all this out and figure out what the heck is going on, what part I play in the problem and solution. 

Hang in there, having that conflict between your wife and family no matter whose "fault" it is just isn't easy.  I feel for you and you are not alone!

[guitarguy09]

Thank you both for your quick responses.

Ceruleanblue: I have tried many times to validate her feelings. I do agree that sometimes my family is not the most loving one (and I'd take a lot of different families over them). But she continually focuses all her anger on them and refuses to take any responsibility for her share in the current mess. That's pretty much what I was doing all weekend when we were away as well. I just wish she would acknowledge for longer than 5 minutes that she appreciates what I do.

Solechanger: The family "circle of hate" as it's been called by another member, really sucks. I have tried to talk to my family a lot of times about how to react to her, and like it says on this site, reacting in a normal way can just make things worse when dealing with a pwBPD. They insist she should be a certain way and aren't really willing to work with her or forgive her in order for us to have family unity. This weekend they were really classy. They totally ignored/shunned us at the family reunion. It's ironic, the only time they all come together as a family is when it's against me or her or both. So I definitely see her point there. I just don't understand, after having such a nice weekend, why she wants to start a big argument about how I never do anything for her. And so the circle continues. All I want is a little peace. Now my family might be so ticked off they may just leave us alone until further notice.

And on top of everything else, we have an upcoming move in a few weeks. So I know I will have to talk to my parents before then which I am not looking forward to. But it would make everything so much easier if she could just CALM DOWN about things (yeah right).

[ColdEthyl]

My husband's family is the other direction... . they completely ignore any attempt by me to talk to them about his condition and behavior. He loves his family, but has a habit of "flowing in and out", he will talk to his mom a few days a week for a few weeks... . then ignores them for months. When I've tried to talk to them about why he does this... . they just change the subject. So frustrating >.<

On the other hand, my husband completely dogs my family, and granted they are not the best, but I would never do that to him or his family... . but that doesn't matter. I spend a lot of time feeling like anything I think or feel doesn't matter.

[guitarguy09]

My husband's family is the other direction... . they completely ignore any attempt by me to talk to them about his condition and behavior. He loves his family, but has a habit of "flowing in and out", he will talk to his mom a few days a week for a few weeks... . then ignores them for months. When I've tried to talk to them about why he does this... . they just change the subject. So frustrating >.<

On the other hand, my husband completely dogs my family, and granted they are not the best, but I would never do that to him or his family... . but that doesn't matter. I spend a lot of time feeling like anything I think or feel doesn't matter.

Doesn't that just drive you crazy when they just don't want to talk about it? I seriously think a lot of the problems in my family spring from the fact that we never worked on any issues or talked about anything like that growing up. I have heard that it's good for parents to resolve problems in front of kids so they get the idea of how that happens. My parents NEVER talked about any problems at least in terms of how they solved them. Things were just supposed to be fine and we were supposed to be happy. My wife would love for the chance to work things out in family counseling, but they don't want anything to do with her until she does some individual counseling. What I've tried to convey to them is a gentle approach works really well with her. That's why she's had no major problems with her side of the family for a good couple of years. Her dad and stepmom know that she has problems, but they love her, me and our son and want to be in our lives so they are gentle with her. They are also very helpful and her dad helps financially sometimes (not a lot). Her mom and stepdad are the same way, though they can't do the same financially. A gentle approach does wonders. My family insists on her acting a certain way and they react the normal way if she doesn't which makes her even more belligerent.

[goldylamont]

this may be going out on a limb, but consider this--look at her actions and not at the content of the argument. i think it's possible she may just want to go out to bars or stay with her girlfriend while having you stay home with the child. not to say there aren't real issues between her and the family, just that it conveniently ends with her leaving and going out to bars. if you wanted to test the theory, next time the argument comes up simply try and reverse the situation. validate and use the tools you have here, but before she decides to leave, actually say that you are going to take off for some time to give her some space and that you'll be back in a little while--if she works super hard to make this not happen and ends up going out on her own again, could be very telling about her ultimate motives. in my r/s at least, i found the content of arguments were often used as a scarecrow (or is it straw-man?) to divert your attention so they could do something else unrelated.

[ColdEthyl]

This could be true. And my God... . how many times my husband has tried to claim I'M the one with a Strawman argument... . I wanna choke him for even saying it anymore . They sure are the masters of deflection.

And yes Guitarguy, it rally does. If I could get their support and talk with them, we could all help him together, and he would have a better shot of staying 'more even', however they prefer to stick their heads in the sand about it. I can't help but part of his problems stem from their parenting coupled with the sexual abuse he has suffered (partially due to their poor parenting techniques, IMO), but to hear him talk you would think they were all saints. I suppose he does that because for him, any failure on their part must be a failure for him.

this may be going out on a limb, but consider this--look at her actions and not at the content of the argument. i think it's possible she may just want to go out to bars or stay with her girlfriend while having you stay home with the child. not to say there aren't real issues between her and the family, just that it conveniently ends with her leaving and going out to bars. if you wanted to test the theory, next time the argument comes up simply try and reverse the situation. validate and use the tools you have here, but before she decides to leave, actually say that you are going to take off for some time to give her some space and that you'll be back in a little while--if she works super hard to make this not happen and ends up going out on her own again, could be very telling about her ultimate motives. in my r/s at least, i found the content of arguments were often used as a scarecrow (or is it straw-man?) to divert your attention so they could do something else unrelated.

[guitarguy09]

That's a good point, GoldyLamont. It seems like she has a "wild side" that wasn't quite satisfied even though she wanted to settle down and have kids right away after we got married. I'm glad we haven't had another one yet, though she wants that. That would be pretty interesting to try.

ColdEthyl - I know, I feel like I'm a lawyer every time we start an argument. If I want to accuse her of something, I have to have "hard evidence" and cite specific times she has acted a certain way. Give me a break. I'm glad that she's very pleasant to be around when she's not dysregulating or we would have not lasted very long. She thinks that I think my family's perfect. I know they have flaws, and Lord knows they have made me feel like crap at times, but they're not quite the devil like she thinks they are.

[ColdEthyl]

I find that he "rewrites' history also. For instance, I'd say 2-3 times a week, his feet will end up crossing mine when we are in bed, and he end up diagonal. I do that once a week. To hear him tell it, he HAS NEVER EVER DONE it, and I do it EVERY NIGHT. And unless I can cite specific dates well then... . I'm just full of it.

That's a good point, GoldyLamont. It seems like she has a "wild side" that wasn't quite satisfied even though she wanted to settle down and have kids right away after we got married. I'm glad we haven't had another one yet, though she wants that. That would be pretty interesting to try.

ColdEthyl - I know, I feel like I'm a lawyer every time we start an argument. If I want to accuse her of something, I have to have "hard evidence" and cite specific times she has acted a certain way. Give me a break. I'm glad that she's very pleasant to be around when she's not dysregulating or we would have not lasted very long. She thinks that I think my family's perfect. I know they have flaws, and Lord knows they have made me feel like crap at times, but they're not quite the devil like she thinks they are.

[guitarguy09]

Ugh, how frustrating! Yeah, getting BPD's to acknowledge the present and the past is like pulling teeth.