Chaos

[george2]

Hello everyone.  I am posting here tonight after a lengthy absence.  I am really needing some support and feedback on a specific question regarding my DBPDw.  The question relates to my children, and how they are being affected by two of my wife's traits.  The first is the emotional outburst and anger and threats to constantly leave me, but more than that tonight, I really need to understand the chaos in our life.  I could not have married someone more opposite than me.  I think that we live in a constant state of chaos, with brief moments of clarity and peace.  I am so worn out with trying to pick up the house, attempt to keep the kids in some sense of routine and feed them and my wife, that I just sit and stare at the mess at the end of the day.  I work a very demanding job, and when that is over, I get home to try and damage control from the day of binge spending and messing up the house that my wife has inflicted.  Now it is not always like this, but I would say over half the time it is.  She will go through periods of cleaning and obsessively scrubbing the house, but that almost always involves changing and redoing everything from cabinets, to furtniture, to ripping up carpet (and then leaving it undone).  I feel like I am always walking in the middle of literal chaos, and am so worn out.  Compounding this is the fact I was the opposite nature, almost always keeping everything clean, picked-up, in the same place, to the point of OCD.  Is there anyone else who suffers this same fate?  Is the a BPD trait, or is it just my wife?  She had a neglected childhood being raised in a home of drug abuse and domestic abuse, and I have for 8 years of marriage done my best to have empathy and accept my life - but sometimes the chaos is completely overwhelming.  Thanks for reading this too wordy of a post and any advice.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[maxsterling]

My problem may be similar.  I work, and until this week, she didn't.  No kids, no other responsibilities.  Yet I do 95% of the cleaning, almost all the cooking, all the household stuff.  And I am worn out. 

This wouldn't be as big of an issue, except my fiance declares herself a neat freak.  She likes neat and order and things to be organized.  She will declare that she wants the house to be cleaner, and that I don't care that it is messy, yet still will not clean herlself (sometimes literally, she won't even shower).

The truth is, *I* want the house to be cleaner.  And I am no neat freak. 

I have no advice for you, other than I know this is tough.

[waverider]

pwBPD often are motivated by impulse and neediness. If something pings on that radar it has to be done NOW and obsessively for as long as its on that radar. Once off it then it is no longer of any importance. Obligation and responsibility are very low on the scale of motivators and will always be overruled by the former.

The result is chaos. Your odds of finding order in the chaos are minimal. pwBPD often dont like the chaos either, but dont have the balance in their motivators to regulate their way out of it. This is one of their causes of anger/frustration and scapegoat seeking.

You can learn to remove yourself from the chaos and to live around it

[Dori]

George and Max, I'm so sorry to hear of your challenges. I, too, live in chaos with my husband who is very dirty but doesn't see it. I work full time and am in grad school while sitting on two boards in addition to trying to keep up with the household things. His routine is to start projects (loves to build) that he never finishes. He comes home from work, goes straight upstairs and stays in our room until he wants something to eat. I've actually just started sleeping in another room because we are so disconnected and chaotic.

Waverider, how do you live around it? And I have a question about feeling like an enabler. If I give in and try to use the communication methods I've read about here, I feel like I'm giving into his bad behavior and enabling him. Am I seeing this wrong?

Dori

[waverider]

George and Max, I'm so sorry to hear of your challenges. I, too, live in chaos with my husband who is very dirty but doesn't see it. I work full time and am in grad school while sitting on two boards in addition to trying to keep up with the household things. His routine is to start projects (loves to build) that he never finishes. He comes home from work, goes straight upstairs and stays in our room until he wants something to eat. I've actually just started sleeping in another room because we are so disconnected and chaotic.

Waverider, how do you live around it? And I have a question about feeling like an enabler. If I give in and try to use the communication methods I've read about here, I feel like I'm giving into his bad behavior and enabling him. Am I seeing this wrong?

Dori

The important thing is to realize you cant live your life fighting a war on all fronts.

Somethings are core issues that really get to you and you have to use boundaries and whatever it takes to protect these. Other areas are things you dont like, but can work around for now, you can put these on the back burner for addressing down the track. Other issues are often trivial and it wont kill you to live with.

The problem is once we allow resentment to set in we start band waggoning every little issue onto the back of it to validate the resentment. But what we are really doing is digging ourselves an even deeper hole to get out of.

Yes enabling is not usually a good thing, but sometimes it has its place to arrive at a place you dont mind being. For example I do some things for my partner that I am sure she could do for herself if she had too, but as a trade off I get to do other things for myself without complaints that would arise even in a "normal" RS.

The goal is to arrive at a place where you are both happy to be, even if that would be viewed as uneven by regular standards. You are not attempting to fight conflict on every issue in order to hammer them back into some mold called "normal".

Enabling can be OK if you can see it for what it is, the consequencies are not detrimental to you, and you get something in return

It is all about creating a happier you, not reconstructing someone else.

[george2]

Thanks to all of you, and thanks waverider for the great advice.  I admit, that is what I have attempted to do.  I used to need to pick up the house, clean up her disgusting messes, and cook for everyone every single day... .I sometimes just let it be, and play with the kids instead now.  It used to kill me, to have it so chaotic, and I would literally weep in frustration and hopelessness.  My therapist worked with me on living with the chaos, and taught me how to focus on the big picture... .but that does not mean that I am so frustrated and weary of the chaos.  Also, the binge spending is insane.  I am having to lie about money now, and hide it away, (which I hate to lie, but have discovered how much of it I do to avoid the raging and impulsive behavior) or she will spend it on anything, and I mean anything.  I will sometimes ignore a mess, let's say a half eaten cereal bowl on her nightstand, just to see how long it will take.  invariably, I end up cleaning it up because I cannot stomach another day of staring at it (or maybe even smelling at that point).  If I didn't do what I do, everyday, every night... .would the sky fall? 

[waverider]

When deciding what to do and what not to do you have think it out in advance. Monitoring something that drives you nuts to see how long it takes is not helping your stress.

If you know you are going to have to do something, then do it. If you decide you can let something slide then let it. It is the time spent focusing on these things that will drive you insane as you are taking on the problem yourself

[formflier]

Yes enabling is not usually a good thing, but sometimes it has its place to arrive at a place you dont mind being. For example I do some things for my partner that I am sure she could do for herself if she had too, but as a trade off I get to do other things for myself without complaints that would arise even in a "normal" RS.

Waverider... .can you expand on this some.  What exactly do you do for her... and then what do you get to do for yourself?

In my r/s we are discussing changing responsibilities and who does what... .so this kind of thing is on my mind.

It is all about creating a happier you, not reconstructing someone else.

Very insightful... .this really helps put things in perspective.

[formflier]

Dori,

Welcome to the staying board!  

[flowerpath]

Not too long ago, I waited it out for as long as I could stand it to see whether my husband would clean up his mess off the floor in our bedroom.  When I could stand it no more, I cleaned it up, shaking my head as I counted the number of dirty bowls, plates, utensils, cups, wadded up napkins, and candy wrappers. (The kitchen, bathroom, and finances are other stories.)

I realized at that moment that if I don’t want our home to look like a pigpen, even though my sons and I are cleaning up after ourselves, then I will have to accept my role as a caretaker and clean up after my husband if he doesn’t do it.  I know it won’t kill me to do that, but I have other responsibilities too, and haven’t quite gotten past the resentment.  Even if it doesn’t seem fair to clean up after someone who is physically capable of doing it but not motivated to, at least getting the visual results that I want may eventually help to dispel the resentment.  Visual order and the resulting sense of peace that it helps to facilitate for me is my reward for the work that I have to do to achieve it. 

[formflier]

  I know it won’t kill me to do that, but I have other responsibilities too, and haven’t quite gotten past the resentment.  Even if it doesn’t seem fair to clean up after someone who is physically capable of doing it but not motivated to, at least getting the visual results that I want may eventually help to dispel the resentment.  Visual order and the resulting sense of peace that it helps to facilitate for me is my reward for the work that I have to do to achieve it. 

Ahhh... .resentment is something that I have struggled with.  Ultimately it seems to come when the other party (my wife in most cases) doesn't see things my way.

In most cases this is about things where there is no "moral issue"... .it's just different ways to do the same thing.  Or in some cases not do something.

Most recently... .I'm made some changes about money.  For my wife there is some fear she has been dealing with... .I still don't understand why... .don't think she should be fearful... .etc etc.  She wanted more and more control of money to help deal with her fear.

I honestly don't care that much about money.  I've made a bunch... have lost a bunch.  I get little to no satisfaction about sitting around and counting it.  It's a tool to get things that my family needs.

Yet I resented my wife for wanting more control and for not thinking about money the way I do.

Well... if I really don't care about it... .why would I resent my wife for wanting more control?

I ultimately let go of this issue and I'm letting her have control.  It's for my family anyway... .she is my family... and by and large makes fine financial choices.  Just goes about it (process) in a different way than I would.

The only place I've drawn a hard line... .and she seems to be accepting... .is that if she wants control... .she has to deal with CPAs... .taxes... .and all the stuff that I didn't consider fun... .she doesn't like it either.

But... that's the price for her to "deal with" her fear... .and that's me "getting something" out of the deal.

That's a lot of typing to basically say... .good on your for recognizing the resentment.  Please also recognize that a plan to deal with resentment that involves a pwBPD changing behavior... .is probably not a good plan


So... .how can we deal with our resentment? 

[waverider]

I realized at that moment that if I don’t want our home to look like a pigpen, even though my sons and I are cleaning up after ourselves, then I will have to accept my role as a caretaker and clean up after my husband if he doesn’t do it.  I know it won’t kill me to do that, but I have other responsibilities too, and haven’t quite gotten past the resentment.  Even if it doesn’t seem fair to clean up after someone who is physically capable of doing it but not motivated to, at least getting the visual results that I want may eventually help to dispel the resentment.  Visual order and the resulting sense of peace that it helps to facilitate for me is my reward for the work that I have to do to achieve it.  

This is a good example of not allowing a skirmish over something you feel is unfair develop to a state where it totally ruins your peace of mind. No doubt this is not a stand alone issue, and in reality is just a symptom of deeper behavioral patterns.

It is far better to make a stand over say for example not looking for his things that he has lost so that he wears the consequence of not being orderly. In the former example him leaving plates there is of no consequence to him but it is to you.

Acceptance comes into this, but think of it as prioritizing things into what you can address most effectively vs the effect it has on you. This swill ease the resentment as you are making a priority choice.

[waverider]

Waverider... .can you expand on this some.  What exactly do you do for her... and then what do you get to do for yourself?

In my r/s we are discussing changing responsibilities and who does what... .so this kind of thing is on my mind.

Financially we do the opposite of you, she has no ability to budget, avoid impulse spending etc. We do not have easy wealth so budgeting is important, or there is a shortfall that cannot be made up.  I have taken over all finances, I have full access to her bank and spare transaction card (she is not even savvy enough to be able to use internet to check her own bank statements). As I have been allowed full control without having to justify how money is being spent I am more than happy to do her shopping for here when I am out and about. She doesn't drive so its easier for me.

The trade off here is I dont have to worry about finances getting screwed and she doesn't have to worry about shopping responsibilities. It would seem dysfunctional to many but it keeps a peace we are both happy with. We tried all combinations prior with trying to get her to accept responsibilities but it always ended in drama and conflict.


There are more examples where i will do things for her and the trade off is I get to go pursue my particular leisure activity when I want (and it can take up a whole day at short notice) without any guilt tripping