Worried that I can only get into relationships with pwBPD...

[christoff522]

Thanks for all of the pointers christoff522, and for taking the time to write all that! I'll check out the links you provided.

I'm definitely going to be taking some of your advice. In fact, I just set up a first date with a girl I met online and we're going to a Halloween theme park this weekend, so that should be fun and should take my mind off of things a bit.

Well, in following through on my words, I said goodbye to my BPD today. I told her that I wasn't going to hold on trying to rekindle the flames of our "once beautiful romance", and that I knew she wasn't interested, and that she was young and incapable of feeling for me what I felt for her. Her reply was "We're friends Chris xx"

My reply was a simple, curt "We're nothing (insert name here) xx"

Her reply "Ok xx"

I then proceeded to tell her that "one day we might be friends, but not today xx"

I was tired of trying, tired of being misled, tired of hearing "who knows what the future holds". A girl who 8 months ago was professing her undying love for me now has me feeling like a creeper. I can't be friends with her, because she disgusts me, every time a narcissistic self centred word comes out of her mouth I want to punch her. I know she doesn't care one jot about me, only about herself. I can't even have a text conversation with her without being able to sense her sighing at each reply. Well today I thought to myself, what the heck am I doing, I mean I have girls everywhere chomping at the bit to be with me, I've had in 2 weeks 4 customers where I work adding me on facebook - good looking girls! I've just arranged a date on Tuesday with one of them, another I'm toying with (and she's loving it). Why should I hold myself back for a stupid selfish 17 year old who thinks shes too good for me. Someone I've never been able to actually even HOLD a conversation with.

So today I ended it, and... for once, I'm actually sticking to it. Saturday October 10th 2014 is the day I actually moved on. Actually, today is the day I finally stopped being a coward, and decided to allow myself to feel the pain of rejection... and it lasted about an hour.

Theres only so much a guy can take.

[Blimblam]

Thanks for all of the pointers christoff522, and for taking the time to write all that! I'll check out the links you provided.

I'm definitely going to be taking some of your advice. In fact, I just set up a first date with a girl I met online and we're going to a Halloween theme park this weekend, so that should be fun and should take my mind off of things a bit.

Well, in following through on my words, I said goodbye to my BPD today. I told her that I wasn't going to hold on trying to rekindle the flames of our "once beautiful romance", and that I knew she wasn't interested, and that she was young and incapable of feeling for me what I felt for her. Her reply was "We're friends Chris xx"

My reply was a simple, curt "We're nothing (insert name here) xx"

Her reply "Ok xx"

I then proceeded to tell her that "one day we might be friends, but not today xx"

I was tired of trying, tired of being misled, tired of hearing "who knows what the future holds". A girl who 8 months ago was professing her undying love for me now has me feeling like a creeper. I can't be friends with her, because she disgusts me, every time a narcissistic self centred word comes out of her mouth I want to punch her. I know she doesn't care one jot about me, only about herself. I can't even have a text conversation with her without being able to sense her sighing at each reply. Well today I thought to myself, what the heck am I doing, I mean I have girls everywhere chomping at the bit to be with me, I've had in 2 weeks 4 customers where I work adding me on facebook - good looking girls! I've just arranged a date on Tuesday with one of them, another I'm toying with (and she's loving it). Why should I hold myself back for a stupid selfish 17 year old who thinks shes too good for me. Someone I've never been able to actually even HOLD a conversation with.

So today I ended it, and... for once, I'm actually sticking to it. Saturday October 10th 2014 is the day I actually moved on. Actually, today is the day I finally stopped being a coward, and decided to allow myself to feel the pain of rejection... and it lasted about an hour.

Theres only so much a guy can take.

Congratulations,

I'm proud of you his christoffs

It's never an easy choice. Sometimes we have to go back a few times to be sure.

[christoff522]

Thanks for all of the pointers christoff522, and for taking the time to write all that! I'll check out the links you provided.

I'm definitely going to be taking some of your advice. In fact, I just set up a first date with a girl I met online and we're going to a Halloween theme park this weekend, so that should be fun and should take my mind off of things a bit.

Well, in following through on my words, I said goodbye to my BPD today. I told her that I wasn't going to hold on trying to rekindle the flames of our "once beautiful romance", and that I knew she wasn't interested, and that she was young and incapable of feeling for me what I felt for her. Her reply was "We're friends Chris xx"

My reply was a simple, curt "We're nothing (insert name here) xx"

Her reply "Ok xx"

I then proceeded to tell her that "one day we might be friends, but not today xx"

I was tired of trying, tired of being misled, tired of hearing "who knows what the future holds". A girl who 8 months ago was professing her undying love for me now has me feeling like a creeper. I can't be friends with her, because she disgusts me, every time a narcissistic self centred word comes out of her mouth I want to punch her. I know she doesn't care one jot about me, only about herself. I can't even have a text conversation with her without being able to sense her sighing at each reply. Well today I thought to myself, what the heck am I doing, I mean I have girls everywhere chomping at the bit to be with me, I've had in 2 weeks 4 customers where I work adding me on facebook - good looking girls! I've just arranged a date on Tuesday with one of them, another I'm toying with (and she's loving it). Why should I hold myself back for a stupid selfish 17 year old who thinks shes too good for me. Someone I've never been able to actually even HOLD a conversation with.

So today I ended it, and... for once, I'm actually sticking to it. Saturday October 10th 2014 is the day I actually moved on. Actually, today is the day I finally stopped being a coward, and decided to allow myself to feel the pain of rejection... and it lasted about an hour.

Theres only so much a guy can take.

Congratulations,

I'm proud of you his christoff

It's never an easy choice. Sometimes we have to go back a few times to be sure.

Its definitely not easy, but utterly necessary. Shes not text me all day, made no attempt to patch things up, Her continuing silence is only more ammunition for me to keep on fighting, Why bother with someone like that? I refuse to be treated like crap.

I understand that she has an illness that she can't control, but I'm not gonna date an illness. I'm also not going to be friendzoned and then used whenever she wants sex or someone to talk to.

[Blimblam]

Thanks for all of the pointers christoff522, and for taking the time to write all that! I'll check out the links you provided.

I'm definitely going to be taking some of your advice. In fact, I just set up a first date with a girl I met online and we're going to a Halloween theme park this weekend, so that should be fun and should take my mind off of things a bit.

Well, in following through on my words, I said goodbye to my BPD today. I told her that I wasn't going to hold on trying to rekindle the flames of our "once beautiful romance", and that I knew she wasn't interested, and that she was young and incapable of feeling for me what I felt for her. Her reply was "We're friends Chris xx"

My reply was a simple, curt "We're nothing (insert name here) xx"

Her reply "Ok xx"

I then proceeded to tell her that "one day we might be friends, but not today xx"

I was tired of trying, tired of being misled, tired of hearing "who knows what the future holds". A girl who 8 months ago was professing her undying love for me now has me feeling like a creeper. I can't be friends with her, because she disgusts me, every time a narcissistic self centred word comes out of her mouth I want to punch her. I know she doesn't care one jot about me, only about herself. I can't even have a text conversation with her without being able to sense her sighing at each reply. Well today I thought to myself, what the heck am I doing, I mean I have girls everywhere chomping at the bit to be with me, I've had in 2 weeks 4 customers where I work adding me on facebook - good looking girls! I've just arranged a date on Tuesday with one of them, another I'm toying with (and she's loving it). Why should I hold myself back for a stupid selfish 17 year old who thinks shes too good for me. Someone I've never been able to actually even HOLD a conversation with.

So today I ended it, and... for once, I'm actually sticking to it. Saturday October 10th 2014 is the day I actually moved on. Actually, today is the day I finally stopped being a coward, and decided to allow myself to feel the pain of rejection... and it lasted about an hour.

Theres only so much a guy can take.

Congratulations,

I'm proud of you his christoff

It's never an easy choice. Sometimes we have to go back a few times to be sure.

Its definitely not easy, but utterly necessary. Shes not text me all day, made no attempt to patch things up, Her continuing silence is only more ammunition for me to keep on fighting, Why bother with someone like that? I refuse to be treated like crap.

I understand that she has an illness that she can't control, but I'm not gonna date an illness. I'm also not going to be friendzoned and then used whenever she wants sex or someone to talk to.

And that's not the worst part. It's the traps she will set up all around you with lies and things to tear down your will.

[christoff522]

And that's not the worst part. It's the traps she will set up all around you with lies and things to tear down your will.

Tbh I don't think she has any traps for me, I think contact is over, it's been two days and not a word out of her. Now I know she won't speak right away, but I'm hoping/thinking she won't contact me ever again. I won't make it impossible or anything, but we'll just have to see!

[cleverusername]

Congrats christoff522! That had to be tough but good job being strong. Keep it up!

As for my situation, things have gotten pretty awkward. On Friday night I was actually out with my sister in the city my ex lives in, and I walked by a lot of places we used to go to together so she was on my mind. I ended up getting a text from her telling me that she just found out that my sister had told her friends that she was crazy, and she was obviously mad about it. She and my sister went to the same college so they have some mutual friends but haven't met before. She told me that my sister should stop running her mouth about her when they haven't even met one another... .

I actually knew that my sister had seen a mutual friend of hers a few weeks ago at a party and my exes name was brought up. The guy she talked to was my exes friends boyfriend (and my exes friend was probably there also), and I had met him the last weekend my ex and I were together. The way my sister explained it to me was that she told him that we had broken up, and he was shocked because we had seemed so good together that night and that when I wasn't around she told the group "I love him but haven't told him yet." He told my sister that she "seems crazy" and my sister must have agreed and maybe said more. My sister told me about this after it happened, but she was really drunk that night so she couldn't remember details.

When I showed my sister the text she told me she was so sorry and would apologize. I texted back apologizing on my sisters behalf and just about the situation. I never got a response. My sister ended up apologizing by FB message last night, and said that she had no right to say that to her friends and that she was drunk and had only deduced that she was crazy from what I had told her about the messed up circumstances of the breakup. My ex read the message but didn't respond.

So I'm left in a pretty awkward place. I truly want to be on good terms and friendly with my ex. She really isn't a bad person, has never gotten physically violent or anything like that, and I really do like her as a person. She does have BPD traits but they aren't extreme, and her fits of rage were more damaging to the relationship than to my well-being. Honestly, if I had known the reason she got mad at me over silly things was that she had a disorder it probably would have helped a lot because the way I always reacted was in disbelief. Knowing that there is a disorder behind it all and it wasn't just her being a jerk would have helped and I would have been more understanding. It wasn't like these things happened 24/7, it was more like once per maybe 8 hours spent together and the rage faded quickly.

I want to text her soon to make sure that her and I are still on friendly terms like we were, but I don't really know what to say. I figure she probably thinks that I think she's crazy also, and I do, haha, but in a way where I still love her as a person and would just want to get her help.

[christoff522]

cleverusername I'm in a pretty bad place right now. I fell into the old 'ah it ain't so bad' trap. I urge you to not break NC. Let her be silent, don't try to make contact and ignore any attempts on her part to respond. It'll never ever go back to how it was, and if you even got back into a relationship the damage is already done.

Don't text her, it will just hurt you more. If you're here on these forums theres a reason for it. Even if now it doesn't seem so bad... it is!

If she thinks that you think she is crazy (which you said you do), that's it, you know too much, she will always keep you at arms length, ignore any attempts on your part to help her (which isn't your job anyway). Stay away so you don't end up like me and others here, broken, hurt, at the edge of our tether.

You don't need this. Keep away.

[Blimblam]

I don't know how far you got into the devaluing stage.  But it is extremely difficult to handle. Once you've been devalued things won't ever be the same again in all likeliness.

[cleverusername]

christoff522, yeah, I know it won't go back to how it was but I pretty strongly feel the need to be on good terms with her and to maybe even be friends at some point. I know it's not my responsibility to be her caretaker, but feeling like you're the only person who understands the mental issues she has and realizing after the fact that they were what caused the relationship to deteriorate is tough. It's especially tough when you realize that you made mistakes that probably would have caused even a normal girl to question/end the relationship, and that those mistakes were just amplified in the mind of someone who has BPD.

I'm making reference to the fact that when she told me she loved me for the first time a week before I went on vacation and I didn't reciprocate or even reassure her that I had strong feelings for her, I know that would cause intense feelings of abandonment. Then add in the fact that she wanted to see me the day I got back home and I told her I didn't want to because I knew I'd need that day to rest and recharge by myself after coming home on a red eye flight and being with people all week (due to being an introvert). I know this is the reason she withdrew while I was away, and I really can't blame her that much for it now that I can see how that would make her feel.

Blimblam, yeah I'm not really sure how far I got into the devaluing stage either. I don't think I've been completely devalued though since she sent friendly FB messages and Snapchats the past couple weeks. But yeah, even the fact that she devalued me at all could mean things won't ever be the same, but I also don't need them to be. I just want to be friendly with one another.

[cleverusername]

So I ended up texting her yesterday before I saw your posts and basically apologized again for whatever my sister told her friends, told her I hoped we were still on good terms, and asked how she's been.

She replied and reassured me we are still on good terms and said that she was drunk when she texted me about being mad about my sister telling her friends she's crazy, and that caused her to be more mean about it than she would have been if she'd been sober.

I ended up saying something along the lines that my sister had probably just heard me explain the circumstances of the breakup back when I was still really upset about it, and that I probably made it seem like she was totally at fault for the breakup when that wasn't the case. I told her that I've come to realize that I made some big mistakes too. This may seem dumb but I really wanted her to know that I'm not as oblivious as it probably seemed when we broke up and that I've at least learned from my mistakes and made more sense of things. Then I said "but anyway, how have you been?" since she didn't reply to that question when I asked in the first text. She hasn't responded yet. I probably made things kind of awkward but oh well, I really needed to get that off of my chest and I asked how she's been afterward so she can choose to ignore it if she wants, haha.

[tim_tom]

^ re the above... .I am done being nice or caring what she thinks about me. I hope there is a special place in hell for her

But seriously, I think a whole bunch of us need to let go and move on. Myself included

[Pingo]

The other thing is, all things considered, I don't really think I was a doormat with my ex. I think that's why it only lasted 4 months while she strung around prior exes for between 1 and 2+ years. I did stand my ground and set boundaries. A couple weeks before the breakup I told her that I really needed some time to myself for a day of the weekend sometimes instead of spending the entire time with her. I also told her that I didn't like how she made plans for our entire weekend a week in advance and would get upset if I ended up wanting to deviate from those plans at all (like meeting with a friend who was in town visiting, even though I wanted her to come with). I knew she would flip out but I told her these things anyway. I ended up making a compromise because I knew I was going on vacation soon and wouldn't be able to see her for a week (and two weekends), but I stood my ground and was prepared to do it again when I got home from the trip (if the relationship had continued).

I also stood my ground the last time I saw her before the breakup when she brought up her marriage and babies timeline for the millionth time, and told her how I didn't feel that it was right to be thinking about that all the time and for it to cause her to constantly question the relationship. She also wanted me to move in with her and I resisted and said it was too early. She needed someone to be more of a doormat than I was, which is why I think the relationship ended.

I think that the fact that you say you 'stood your ground' on these occasions alone show you aren't DPD.  I think this r/s has made you think you are b/c of the disbelief you are in and the overwhelming grief you are experiencing.  I think most people on this board have wondered the same thing and just want an explanation for the unexplainable.  Reading through the criterion for DPD, I could call myself that right now.  I think it's a symptom of what it's like to end a BPD r/s. We were so completely enmeshed.  And truthfully I am terrified of getting into another r/s as I'm wondering the same thing, am I doomed to unhealthy r/ss?  Can I ever become healthy enough to attract a healthy r/s? Some days (like today) I feel really doubtful, can a leopard change his spots? Which leads me to my next question... .

Same here. My last 2 relationships were the same way. Funny enough, I asked my T today this very question... .

You can't be passive, it attracts women like this and leaves you vulnerable because you don't have any other options

Tim, can you elaborate on this?  What do you mean by "you can't be passive"?

[Pingo]

There's a little voice inside you that sees a bakery and thinks I want a fn cookie. Learn to hear this "voice" and then create an inner dialogue with it and talk to it how you would talk to your ex to get her excited about things. Say to it "yes let's get a cookie this is going to be frigen delish".  

Deserts is a good place to start because your inner child loves sweets.  Then step it up to I don't know a hike a picnic reading under a tree.

Blimblam, I had a good chuckle over this.  When my ex & I broke up the first time this past January I ate ice cream for 3 weeks straight!  Like 3 times a day!  I gained 10 lbs!  Lol  Luckily, I've lost it and got that under control before I became obese.  But I also pulled out my teddy bear recently that I've had packed away since I was probably 13 (I'm 44 now) and I've been sleeping with it .  Small comforts.

Cleverusername, I get the feeling about lacking passion.  I remember my friend asking me what I was passionate about and I couldn't come up with one single thing.  This r/s had brought me to such a deep apathy, I couldn't remember what had interested me before the r/s.  4 months out and I'm slowly starting to remember.  Like Blimblam says, 'date yourself'.  Find out what your interests are so that when you do date again you can be more decisive b/c you know who you are and what you want.  And if weight lifting and tech is your passion then I'd talk about it enthusiastically, don't matter if they have the same passion, they'll be attracted to your enthusiasm.  And who knows, maybe you might be surprised to find a woman who does like those things too (I was a body builder in my former life)!

[cleverusername]

Same here. My last 2 relationships were the same way. Funny enough, I asked my T today this very question... .

You can't be passive, it attracts women like this and leaves you vulnerable because you don't have any other options

Tim, can you elaborate on this?  What do you mean by "you can't be passive"?

Let me know if I'm wrong, Tim, but I think what he means is basically that a more aggressive guy wouldn't get caught up in the BPD behavior from the start. A more aggressive guy would see the red flags right away (and I'll admit, I saw them but ignored them) and they would realize that it's not worth pursuing a relationship with this person and would move on to another option. They have more options because they're aggressive and they know they don't need to deal with bad behavior from the person they're dating, since they can just find someone else who will treat them better.

Also, a more passive guy like me has trouble getting a relationship off the ground from the start. For me, I usually go on between 1-3 dates with a girl, act too passive, don't go for a first kiss or show that much interest, etc, and the girl moves on or I lose interest. When a guy who has this problem meets a pwBPD, she throws herself at him, idealizes him, etc, and the guy thinks "this is great, she's doing all the work and I can sit by and be my passive self."

I think it's kind of like how women for the most part are passive and expect to be pursued. A passive guy isn't able to get women like this because he's passive and doesn't really do much pursuing, so the passive woman finds that he seems disinterested or kind of feminine in that way. Now this passive guy meets a pwBPD and she's aggressive and does the pursuing, and he can continue being passive and just do whatever she wants.

For me, I technically initiated conversation on a dating site but only because she had "liked" me first. I forget who asked who out on the first date, but she picked the place we went to and at the end of the date she told me she'd like it if I kissed her. Normally I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, especially on a first date (sometimes I go 3 dates and never work up the courage and the girl loses interest). Then she planned the second date, probably the third, invited me to her place after that, asked me to be in a relationship with her, planned a vacation, etc. And all the while I'm just thinking, "this is great!" It was really nice being pursued like that. But really, it was her BPD behavior and the idealization phase that I was attracted to due to my passive nature.

[cleverusername]

Cleverusername, I get the feeling about lacking passion.  I remember my friend asking me what I was passionate about and I couldn't come up with one single thing.  This r/s had brought me to such a deep apathy, I couldn't remember what had interested me before the r/s.  4 months out and I'm slowly starting to remember.  Like Blimblam says, 'date yourself'.  Find out what your interests are so that when you do date again you can be more decisive b/c you know who you are and what you want.  And if weight lifting and tech is your passion then I'd talk about it enthusiastically, don't matter if they have the same passion, they'll be attracted to your enthusiasm.  And who knows, maybe you might be surprised to find a woman who does like those things too (I was a body builder in my former life)!

That's true about talking about my passions enthusiastically, even if the other person doesn't have the same passion. I guess I get caught up thinking that my passions aren't as interesting or altruistic as other peoples passions or something. I mean, working out and using technology are things that almost everyone does to some extent right? So I'm passionate about some kind of mundane everyday things? Haha. I guess I kind of devalue my passions, probably not good... .

[tim_tom]

Let me know if I'm wrong, Tim, but I think what he means is basically that a more aggressive guy wouldn't get caught up in the BPD behavior from the start. A more aggressive guy would see the red flags right away (and I'll admit, I saw them but ignored them) and they would realize that it's not worth pursuing a relationship with this person and would move on to another option. They have more options because they're aggressive and they know they don't need to deal with bad behavior from the person they're dating, since they can just find someone else who will treat them better.

Also, a more passive guy like me has trouble getting a relationship off the ground from the start. For me, I usually go on between 1-3 dates with a girl, act too passive, don't go for a first kiss or show that much interest, etc, and the girl moves on or I lose interest. When a guy who has this problem meets a pwBPD, she throws herself at him, idealizes him, etc, and the guy thinks "this is great, she's doing all the work and I can sit by and be my passive self."

I think it's kind of like how women for the most part are passive and expect to be pursued. A passive guy isn't able to get women like this because he's passive and doesn't really do much pursuing, so the passive woman finds that he seems disinterested or kind of feminine in that way. Now this passive guy meets a pwBPD and she's aggressive and does the pursuing, and he can continue being passive and just do whatever she wants.

For me, I technically initiated conversation on a dating site but only because she had "liked" me first. I forget who asked who out on the first date, but she picked the place we went to and at the end of the date she told me she'd like it if I kissed her. Normally I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, especially on a first date (sometimes I go 3 dates and never work up the courage and the girl loses interest). Then she planned the second date, probably the third, invited me to her place after that, asked me to be in a relationship with her, planned a vacation, etc. And all the while I'm just thinking, "this is great!" It was really nice being pursued like that. But really, it was her BPD behavior and the idealization phase that I was attracted to due to my passive nature.

More or less yes... I am passive with women and don't get relationships off the ground with normal women. That leaves the boundary less BPD, who basically drag me into the relationship and as you said, I don't have to do any of the work.

If I was able to take initiative, and successfully meet and nurture healthy relationships I wouldn't be as easy a target for BPD, nor would i put up with as much ___ as I have

[Blimblam]

There's a little voice inside you that sees a bakery and thinks I want a fn cookie. Learn to hear this "voice" and then create an inner dialogue with it and talk to it how you would talk to your ex to get her excited about things. Say to it "yes let's get a cookie this is going to be frigen delish".  

Deserts is a good place to start because your inner child loves sweets.  Then step it up to I don't know a hike a picnic reading under a tree.

Blimblam, I had a good chuckle over this.  When my ex & I broke up the first time this past January I ate ice cream for 3 weeks straight!  Like 3 times a day!  I gained 10 lbs!  Lol  Luckily, I've lost it and got that under control before I became obese.  But I also pulled out my teddy bear recently that I've had packed away since I was probably 13 (I'm 44 now) and I've been sleeping with it .  Small comforts.

Cleverusername, I get the feeling about lacking passion.  I remember my friend asking me what I was passionate about and I couldn't come up with one single thing.  This r/s had brought me to such a deep apathy, I couldn't remember what had interested me before the r/s.  4 months out and I'm slowly starting to remember.  Like Blimblam says, 'date yourself'.  Find out what your interests are so that when you do date again you can be more decisive b/c you know who you are and what you want.  And if weight lifting and tech is your passion then I'd talk about it enthusiastically, don't matter if they have the same passion, they'll be attracted to your enthusiasm.  And who knows, maybe you might be surprised to find a woman who does like those things too (I was a body builder in my former life)!

Yeah a big part if my healing has been identifying this "voice" and listening to it. For me it wants solitude. When I am ready to be enthusiastic about things I will. There is another voice that compares me and sets up where I would ideally like to be in myself that I have identified as the punitive parent. I know a lot of people that view the punitive parent as a motivating force but it punishes the lonely child.

I know plenty of people that have shut off ther connection to the lonely child indulge the impulsive child and punish the lonely child in others. In that way the punitive parent motivates them to "succeed."  They think this is healthy because it's sort of a "successful" approach to existing in society and gives them an edge is social encounters.

[Pingo]

Let me know if I'm wrong, Tim, but I think what he means is basically that a more aggressive guy wouldn't get caught up in the BPD behavior from the start. A more aggressive guy would see the red flags right away (and I'll admit, I saw them but ignored them) and they would realize that it's not worth pursuing a relationship with this person and would move on to another option. They have more options because they're aggressive and they know they don't need to deal with bad behavior from the person they're dating, since they can just find someone else who will treat them better.

Also, a more passive guy like me has trouble getting a relationship off the ground from the start. For me, I usually go on between 1-3 dates with a girl, act too passive, don't go for a first kiss or show that much interest, etc, and the girl moves on or I lose interest. When a guy who has this problem meets a pwBPD, she throws herself at him, idealizes him, etc, and the guy thinks "this is great, she's doing all the work and I can sit by and be my passive self."

I think it's kind of like how women for the most part are passive and expect to be pursued. A passive guy isn't able to get women like this because he's passive and doesn't really do much pursuing, so the passive woman finds that he seems disinterested or kind of feminine in that way. Now this passive guy meets a pwBPD and she's aggressive and does the pursuing, and he can continue being passive and just do whatever she wants.

For me, I technically initiated conversation on a dating site but only because she had "liked" me first. I forget who asked who out on the first date, but she picked the place we went to and at the end of the date she told me she'd like it if I kissed her. Normally I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, especially on a first date (sometimes I go 3 dates and never work up the courage and the girl loses interest). Then she planned the second date, probably the third, invited me to her place after that, asked me to be in a relationship with her, planned a vacation, etc. And all the while I'm just thinking, "this is great!" It was really nice being pursued like that. But really, it was her BPD behavior and the idealization phase that I was attracted to due to my passive nature.

More or less yes... I am passive with women and don't get relationships off the ground with normal women. That leaves the boundary less BPD, who basically drag me into the relationship and as you said, I don't have to do any of the work.

If I was able to take initiative, and successfully meet and nurture healthy relationships I wouldn't be as easy a target for BPD, nor would i put up with as much ___ as I have

Interesting, so you have to be assertive in order to not attract the all-controlling BPD?  Because she will be scared off or not see you as good 'prey' if you are the one pursuing?  I guess, as a woman, I am attracted to men who pursue me. Is that because that is our stereotypical roles or because it feeds my ego needs of being wanted and desired?  I wouldn't call myself passive though.  I know that my 'self' has always been dependent on how others see me so this makes sense.  This is what I'm focusing on in therapy, this absolute dependency on others' acceptance of me, so dysfunctional. This is why I have no idea how to have a healthy r/s.  Can I be pursued by a healthy man?  Maybe I should be equally pursuing him and that is what would make it healthy?  I have no idea!  Ughhh! I'm doomed

[Blimblam]

Let me know if I'm wrong, Tim, but I think what he means is basically that a more aggressive guy wouldn't get caught up in the BPD behavior from the start. A more aggressive guy would see the red flags right away (and I'll admit, I saw them but ignored them) and they would realize that it's not worth pursuing a relationship with this person and would move on to another option. They have more options because they're aggressive and they know they don't need to deal with bad behavior from the person they're dating, since they can just find someone else who will treat them better.

Also, a more passive guy like me has trouble getting a relationship off the ground from the start. For me, I usually go on between 1-3 dates with a girl, act too passive, don't go for a first kiss or show that much interest, etc, and the girl moves on or I lose interest. When a guy who has this problem meets a pwBPD, she throws herself at him, idealizes him, etc, and the guy thinks "this is great, she's doing all the work and I can sit by and be my passive self."

I think it's kind of like how women for the most part are passive and expect to be pursued. A passive guy isn't able to get women like this because he's passive and doesn't really do much pursuing, so the passive woman finds that he seems disinterested or kind of feminine in that way. Now this passive guy meets a pwBPD and she's aggressive and does the pursuing, and he can continue being passive and just do whatever she wants.

For me, I technically initiated conversation on a dating site but only because she had "liked" me first. I forget who asked who out on the first date, but she picked the place we went to and at the end of the date she told me she'd like it if I kissed her. Normally I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, especially on a first date (sometimes I go 3 dates and never work up the courage and the girl loses interest). Then she planned the second date, probably the third, invited me to her place after that, asked me to be in a relationship with her, planned a vacation, etc. And all the while I'm just thinking, "this is great!" It was really nice being pursued like that. But really, it was her BPD behavior and the idealization phase that I was attracted to due to my passive nature.

More or less yes... I am passive with women and don't get relationships off the ground with normal women. That leaves the boundary less BPD, who basically drag me into the relationship and as you said, I don't have to do any of the work.

If I was able to take initiative, and successfully meet and nurture healthy relationships I wouldn't be as easy a target for BPD, nor would i put up with as much ___ as I have

Interesting, so you have to be assertive in order to not attract the all-controlling BPD?  Because she will be scared off or not see you as good 'prey' if you are the one pursuing?  I guess, as a woman, I am attracted to men who pursue me. Is that because that is our stereotypical roles or because it feeds my ego needs of being wanted and desired?  I wouldn't call myself passive though.  I know that my 'self' has always been dependent on how others see me so this makes sense.  This is what I'm focusing on in therapy, this absolute dependency on others' acceptance of me, so dysfunctional. This is why I have no idea how to have a healthy r/s.  Can I be pursued by a healthy man?  Maybe I should be equally pursuing him and that is what would make it healthy?  I have no idea!  Ughhh! I'm doomed

I think it's just more based on a response that is deemed favorable. Like body language that gives the green light. Or not the red light.