Worried that I can only get into relationships with pwBPD...

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So I had some things trigger thoughts about my ex over the weekend (not to mention her breaking NC for the first time in almost a month the other day to text me a link to an article she knew I'd like, at 3:30am on a work day). I did some thinking and now I'm just feeling really down about my prospects for getting into another relationship in the future. I'm 27 and this was my first real relationship, and I feel that the only reason it was able to happen was her BPD and the idealization phase.

She made me feel like no girl ever has before, and took initiative where I would have been passive in the early dating stages. She made it clear she wanted me to kiss her when we first kissed, planned things to do together, made it clear how into me she was... .It was exactly what I needed in order to get the relationship off the ground.

The problem is that now I don't think I'm just susceptible to getting into relationships with pwBPD, I really think that dating a person with those traits is the only way I'll ever get into a relationship again. I know that this is mostly due to my own insecurity, and I guess I just have to work on that, but I'm just really worried now. Prior to this relationship I really didn't care all that much that I hadn't been in a relationship before and didn't think I was a "relationship type of person" I guess, but now that I've been in one and have seen how happy it can make me when things are going well I want to experience it again badly.

I'm back to passively online dating but haven't connected with anyone anywhere near the way I did right from the start when my ex and I first started chatting. We basically started talking, exchanged numbers quickly, and were instantly texting almost constantly. Now I chat with girls and they respond like 24 hours later, and I don't even feel like exchanging numbers.

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time, and I'm not getting that and don't think I will from a normal person. Has anyone else experienced feeling like this? I'm starting to think I just don't like the male gender role of being the one to have to "chase" or something like that... .

[cleverusername]

So I had some things trigger thoughts about my ex over the weekend (not to mention her breaking NC for the first time in almost a month the other day to text me a link to an article she knew I'd like, at 3:30am on a work day). I did some thinking and now I'm just feeling really down about my prospects for getting into another relationship in the future. I'm 27 and this was my first real relationship, and I feel that the only reason it was able to happen was her BPD and the idealization phase.

She made me feel like no girl ever has before, and took initiative where I would have been passive in the early dating stages. She made it clear she wanted me to kiss her when we first kissed, planned things to do together, made it clear how into me she was... .It was exactly what I needed in order to get the relationship off the ground.

The problem is that now I don't think I'm just susceptible to getting into relationships with pwBPD, I really think that dating a person with those traits is the only way I'll ever get into a relationship again. I know that this is mostly due to my own insecurity, and I guess I just have to work on that, but I'm just really worried now. Prior to this relationship I really didn't care all that much that I hadn't been in a relationship before and didn't think I was a "relationship type of person" I guess, but now that I've been in one and have seen how happy it can make me when things are going well I want to experience it again badly.

I'm back to passively online dating but haven't connected with anyone anywhere near the way I did right from the start when my ex and I first started chatting. We basically started talking, exchanged numbers quickly, and were instantly texting almost constantly. Now I chat with girls and they respond like 24 hours later, and I don't even feel like exchanging numbers.

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time, and I'm not getting that and don't think I will from a normal person. Has anyone else experienced feeling like this? I'm starting to think I just don't like the male gender role of being the one to have to "chase" or something like that... .

[Blimblam]

I can relate to the  attraction to borderline women I prefer the waif.  Sounds like you like the queen siren.  Or with narc histrionic traits.

It just sound to me like you have a lot of inner work to do on yourself. Once you hit a place you feel good in yourself even your own eccentricities girls will pick up on that and you just have to tune into that attraction and signs women give you and make the leap to act on it.

[Mutt]

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time,

A r/s where you're being idealized isn't a healthy one. It's understandable that you're interested now. A borderline line r/s is intense, gives off a certain electricity. I have to agree with Blimblam with digging into your own stuff. These r/s are are extremely painful. Check out the legal board to see how difficult they can be and the potential headaches that'll cost you.

[Lucky One]

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time,

A r/s where you're being idealized isn't a healthy one. It's understandable that you're interested now. A borderline line r/s is intense, gives off a certain electricity. I have to agree with Blimblam with digging into your own stuff. These r/s are are extremely painful. Check out the legal board to see how difficult they can be and the potential headaches that'll cost you.

Absolutely agree - with the "extremely painful" comment.

How much pain is one prepared to endure! And how many times?

[cleverusername]

I can relate to the  attraction to borderline women I prefer the waif.  Sounds like you like the queen siren.  Or with narc histrionic traits.

It just sound to me like you have a lot of inner work to do on yourself. Once you hit a place you feel good in yourself even your own eccentricities girls will pick up on that and you just have to tune into that attraction and signs women give you and make the leap to act on it.

Yeah, I agree that I probably like the queen siren. And yep, unfortunately at age 27 I apparently need to do lots of work on myself. It's pretty sad, most of my friends are getting married/engaged and I'm not even in a mental state where I can get into a relationship. I really don't know where to go for help either. Is a therapist the right way to go?

I really feel hopeless. I can't bring myself to hit on girls in loud bars/clubs because I'm overwhelmed by that sort of atmosphere and usually can't even hear myself speak, never mind someone else. And with online dating I just get messages from girls I'm not attracted to, and when I message girls I am attracted to I never get a response. Brutal

[cleverusername]

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time,

A r/s where you're being idealized isn't a healthy one. It's understandable that you're interested now. A borderline line r/s is intense, gives off a certain electricity. I have to agree with Blimblam with digging into your own stuff. These r/s are are extremely painful. Check out the legal board to see how difficult they can be and the potential headaches that'll cost you.

Yeah, it definitely doesn't seem to be worth the legal headaches in the long-run. What sucks is that part of me isn't sure that she's borderline. There's definitely something up with her but she never got violent or did anything as crazy as some of the things I've read about on this board. I guess I just keep thinking about the good times and I need to go back and read my list of all of the crazy things she did/said... .

[cleverusername]

In other news, I was just on Facebook and even though I've "unfollowed" her I can still see her profile picture on my chat side bar thing. She must have changed it today and she's with the new victim. She probably changed her relationship status also but I'm not going to look at it.

It didn't hit me in the gut like some triggers have in the past but it's pretty upsetting. It's just a reminder that the only girl who has ever told me she loved me moved on to a new guy after seeing me in person for a grand total of about an hour after the day she said it. It's just really painful knowing she never really cared about me and I was just totally fooled. I feel bad for being that guy to the guy she dated before me. Her and I went "Facebook official" within a month of her breakup with him. He texted her and called her a slut for it, I just kept my mouth shut.

[Blimblam]

I can relate to the  attraction to borderline women I prefer the waif.  Sounds like you like the queen siren.  Or with narc histrionic traits.

It just sound to me like you have a lot of inner work to do on yourself. Once you hit a place you feel good in yourself even your own eccentricities girls will pick up on that and you just have to tune into that attraction and signs women give you and make the leap to act on it.

Yeah, I agree that I probably like the queen siren. And yep, unfortunately at age 27 I apparently need to do lots of work on myself. It's pretty sad, most of my friends are getting married/engaged and I'm not even in a mental state where I can get into a relationship. I really don't know where to go for help either. Is a therapist the right way to go?

I really feel hopeless. I can't bring myself to hit on girls in loud bars/clubs because I'm overwhelmed by that sort of atmosphere and usually can't even hear myself speak, never mind someone else. And with online dating I just get messages from girls I'm not attracted to, and when I message girls I am attracted to I never get a response. Brutal

Therapy could be a could be a good idea. 

It takes time to heal after these relationships. Perhaps stay off of social media for a while. Take time to take care of yourself for now. 

try not to compare yourself to others. 

Please try not to beat yourself up right now. 

You have been through a very truamtic experience with your ex and healing is in order. 

After my break up a lot of people told me I needed to be doing this that and the other thing and they were all wrong. I just needed to find my voice again.

There is an inner voice in you waiting for you quite and subtle. 

Right now you hear the one judging and comparing that voice can a

Shut the hell up and anyone who triggers that voice in you doesn't need to be in your life right now.

[cleverusername]

Thanks for the advice, Blimblam. I actually have been avoiding Facebook (the only social media site I really use) recently, but sometimes I use it order to find girls I meet through online dating so I can check out their profile/pictures before meeting in person. That's what I was doing this time and the girl happened to have the same name as my ex, so when I searched the first result was my ex and I saw her new profile picture. The good news is that that's pretty much the worst thing that I could possibly see relating to her on Facebook, since I have unfollowed her, so that's nice haha.

I've been doing some introspective research and just realized that I'm pretty sure I have a personality disorder as well. I meet almost all of the criteria for Dependent Personality Disorder (codependency). I had the suspicion when reading about codependent relationships that that may be the case but after reading through this (www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/dependent-personality-disorder) I'm convinced I have this disorder. Is it weird that I feel strangely relieved, as if I have figured out what is wrong with me and can seek help? Having read about how pwBPD respond to being told they have a personality disorder, I find it strange that this realization has actually made me feel much more at ease.

[christoff522]

Thanks for the advice, Blimblam. I actually have been avoiding Facebook (the only social media site I really use) recently, but sometimes I use it order to find girls I meet through online dating so I can check out their profile/pictures before meeting in person. That's what I was doing this time and the girl happened to have the same name as my ex, so when I searched the first result was my ex and I saw her new profile picture. The good news is that that's pretty much the worst thing that I could possibly see relating to her on Facebook, since I have unfollowed her, so that's nice haha.

We've all been here, the 'love of my life' is now in a relationship with someone else, let me assure you that however low you feel, this relationship will not survive. Facebook is a highlight reel of people's lives, however happy and perfect she feels, she's doing with him what she did with you. I would suggest deleting and blocking her, you don't need that hassle - if you don't do this you WILL keep checking it and probably already are.

I've been doing some introspective research and just realized that I'm pretty sure I have a personality disorder as well. I meet almost all of the criteria for Dependent Personality Disorder (codependency). I had the suspicion when reading about codependent relationships that that may be the case but after reading through this (www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/dependent-personality-disorder) I'm convinced I have this disorder. Is it weird that I feel strangely relieved, as if I have figured out what is wrong with me and can seek help? Having read about how pwBPD respond to being told they have a personality disorder, I find it strange that this realization has actually made me feel much more at ease.

Don't sell yourself short, you most likely have a low self-esteem, don't start labelling yourself with mental illnesses because its just going to enable you to wallow and depress. It makes you feel at ease because now you can just say to yourself "I have DPD, its not my fault". I'm not going to coddle you, you're a human being, you're a man, don't make excuses... get yourself surfing online, start listening to people like Eckhart Tolle (you can get all his audio books online for free via torrents), get yourself to the gym, buy yourself some new togs, get yourself feeling the best you've ever felt about yourself. Just because you've been duped by an actual crazy it doesn't mean you have to label yourself crazy.

[cleverusername]

Yeah, I get what you're saying about the Facebook stuff. The thing is, I oddly feel the need to maintain a friendship with her. I think it's partly because we were good as friends before we met in person. We "met" through online dating a couple years ago and really hit it off as friends but she started dating a guy before meeting me in person, which I was fine with because I just wanted for her to me happy. It's also a symptom of DPD to have trouble with ending relationships. I hate to see a relationship with someone I care about completely end and even after dating someone only a few times and not wanting to get into a relationship I still try to keep those people in my life to some extent. Even if it's just FB friends and we say happy birthday to each other every year and not much else, it just makes me feel better about things I guess. I know, I'm weird haha.

You're right, I definitely do have low self-esteem in lots of ways and I have seen a therapist about that in the past. It's a funny kind of low self-esteem though, considering I don't respond to most girls who message me on online dating because I'm not attracted and think I can do better, haha.

I don't really think labeling myself with mental illness is going to have a negative affect on me to be honest. If anything, instead of thinking I'm the sole person who is messed up in the ways that I am I now know that there are actually enough other people who are similar to me that the disorder has a name. And I think being able to point out my suspicion to a therapist could be helpful in having them go in the right direction as far as treatment. I'm not wallowing in my "self-diagnosis," it's actually made me feel better in that I have an idea of what needs to be done to better myself. I think I've kind of been struggling with identity issues and being able to put a finger on who I am and why I behave the way I do goes a long way to figuring that out.

I'll check out Eckhart Tolle, thanks for the suggestion! As far as going to the gym, I've always done that haha, I now have a little more time for it though since I'm single so I've been going 5 or 6 times per week instead of 3 or 4. But yeah, I'll update my wardrobe a bit and try to start feeling better about myself.

[christoff522]

Yeah, I get what you're saying about the Facebook stuff. The thing is, I oddly feel the need to maintain a friendship with her. I think it's partly because we were good as friends before we met in person. We "met" through online dating a couple years ago and really hit it off as friends but she started dating a guy before meeting me in person, which I was fine with because I just wanted for her to be happy. It's also a symptom of DPD to have trouble with ending relationships. I hate to see a relationship with someone I care about completely end and even after dating someone only a few times and not wanting to get into a relationship I still try to keep those people in my life to some extent. Even if it's just FB friends and we say happy birthday to each other every year and not much else, it just makes me feel better about things I guess. I know, I'm weird haha.

Its not only a symptom of DPD, everyone in a BPD relationship has trouble ending it. Also, nobody wants to see a relationship end anyway. After my BPD discarded me, my best friend (who weirdly also has BPD) discard me too. If you have DPD, I have DPD.

You're right, I definitely do have low self-esteem in lots of ways and I have seen a therapist about that in the past. It's a funny kind of low self-esteem though, considering I don't respond to most girls who message me on online dating because I'm not attracted and think I can do better, haha.

That is also a sign of low self-esteem. You invent reasons to avoid contact with people, probably because you know you 'could' have a relationship with that person, i... e. they like you. Knowing someone likes you makes it too real and triggers you. A BPD relationship works because they mirror you, and because they're 'fantasy people'. They're not real. If some Hot 10 appeared on the site and messaged you, you would have the same issue, except you'd be too clingy or needy, you'd push them away for the SAME reason you ignore unattractive/plain girls. Your low self-esteem. It's easy to just say "they're unattractive", and then focus all your attention on the hotties, because they're at a safe distance.

I don't really think labeling myself with mental illness is going to have a negative affect on me to be honest. If anything, instead of thinking I'm the sole person who is messed up in the ways that I am I now know that there are actually enough other people who are similar to me that the disorder has a name. And I think being able to point out my suspicion to a therapist could be helpful in having them go in the right direction as far as treatment. I'm not wallowing in my "self-diagnosis," it's actually made me feel better in that I have an idea of what needs to be done to better myself. I think I've kind of been struggling with identity issues and being able to put a finger on who I am and why I behave the way I do goes a long way to figuring that out.

You may not see it now, but it is going to cause you problems, it may seem that it answers all the problems, but it also takes the responsibility away from yourself. If you say you have confidence and self-esteem problems, you have to do something about that. Sure, tell your therapist that you think you have co-dependency problems. But frankly your therapist should be telling YOU that not you telling him that. Good luck with it.

I'll check out Eckhart Tolle, thanks for the suggestion! As far as going to the gym, I've always done that haha, I now have a little more time for it though since I'm single so I've been going 5 or 6 times per week instead of 3 or 4. But yeah, I'll update my wardrobe a bit and try to start feeling better about myself.

Eckhart Tolle can help you with emotional issues, The guy from reignitethefire advises him to help with self-control and basically keeping calm under BPD fire. Well done in going to the gym, just do stuff for yourself not for everyone else.

[tim_tom]

So I had some things trigger thoughts about my ex over the weekend (not to mention her breaking NC for the first time in almost a month the other day to text me a link to an article she knew I'd like, at 3:30am on a work day). I did some thinking and now I'm just feeling really down about my prospects for getting into another relationship in the future. I'm 27 and this was my first real relationship, and I feel that the only reason it was able to happen was her BPD and the idealization phase.

She made me feel like no girl ever has before, and took initiative where I would have been passive in the early dating stages. She made it clear she wanted me to kiss her when we first kissed, planned things to do together, made it clear how into me she was... .It was exactly what I needed in order to get the relationship off the ground.

The problem is that now I don't think I'm just susceptible to getting into relationships with pwBPD, I really think that dating a person with those traits is the only way I'll ever get into a relationship again. I know that this is mostly due to my own insecurity, and I guess I just have to work on that, but I'm just really worried now. Prior to this relationship I really didn't care all that much that I hadn't been in a relationship before and didn't think I was a "relationship type of person" I guess, but now that I've been in one and have seen how happy it can make me when things are going well I want to experience it again badly.

I'm back to passively online dating but haven't connected with anyone anywhere near the way I did right from the start when my ex and I first started chatting. We basically started talking, exchanged numbers quickly, and were instantly texting almost constantly. Now I chat with girls and they respond like 24 hours later, and I don't even feel like exchanging numbers.

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time, and I'm not getting that and don't think I will from a normal person. Has anyone else experienced feeling like this? I'm starting to think I just don't like the male gender role of being the one to have to "chase" or something like that... .

Same here. My last 2 relationships were the same way. Funny enough, I asked my T today this very question... .

You can't be passive, it attracts women like this and leaves you vulnerable because you don't have any other options

[christoff522]

So I had some things trigger thoughts about my ex over the weekend (not to mention her breaking NC for the first time in almost a month the other day to text me a link to an article she knew I'd like, at 3:30am on a work day). I did some thinking and now I'm just feeling really down about my prospects for getting into another relationship in the future. I'm 27 and this was my first real relationship, and I feel that the only reason it was able to happen was her BPD and the idealization phase.

She made me feel like no girl ever has before, and took initiative where I would have been passive in the early dating stages. She made it clear she wanted me to kiss her when we first kissed, planned things to do together, made it clear how into me she was... .It was exactly what I needed in order to get the relationship off the ground.

The problem is that now I don't think I'm just susceptible to getting into relationships with pwBPD, I really think that dating a person with those traits is the only way I'll ever get into a relationship again. I know that this is mostly due to my own insecurity, and I guess I just have to work on that, but I'm just really worried now. Prior to this relationship I really didn't care all that much that I hadn't been in a relationship before and didn't think I was a "relationship type of person" I guess, but now that I've been in one and have seen how happy it can make me when things are going well I want to experience it again badly.

I'm back to passively online dating but haven't connected with anyone anywhere near the way I did right from the start when my ex and I first started chatting. We basically started talking, exchanged numbers quickly, and were instantly texting almost constantly. Now I chat with girls and they respond like 24 hours later, and I don't even feel like exchanging numbers.

I know this is probably more healthy but I feel like I need for the person I date to show that they are very interested in me and that I'm not wasting my time, and I'm not getting that and don't think I will from a normal person. Has anyone else experienced feeling like this? I'm starting to think I just don't like the male gender role of being the one to have to "chase" or something like that... .

Same here. My last 2 relationships were the same way. Funny enough, I asked my T today this very question... .

You can't be passive, it attracts women like this and leaves you vulnerable because you don't have any other options

Extremely well said. Passivity leads to controlling women, women who have zero respect for weak men. The only way to go is to regain your masculinity, or if you've never been a masculine man - to find your masculinity.

[tim_tom]

Extremely well said. Passivity leads to controlling women, women who have zero respect for weak men. The only way to go is to regain your masculinity, or if you've never been a masculine man - to find your masculinity.

well while what you said is certainly true, I don't know if I'd lump it under "masculinity". I am very "alpha male" in my professional life and with friends, I am simply a wimp when it comes to women. Apparently this dichotomy isn't abnormal... .

I read somewhere that current american society is particularly adept at turning out men like this. Why? Because we are raised as young boys by single women, with largely absentee fathers... then we get sent off into a school system also dominated by women. We are basically trained, from a young age, to seek approval from women, and to be told what to do by women. They are our authority figures and it imprints us to treats them as such.

[christoff522]

Extremely well said. Passivity leads to controlling women, women who have zero respect for weak men. The only way to go is to regain your masculinity, or if you've never been a masculine man - to find your masculinity.

well while what you said is certainly true, I don't know if I'd lump it under "masculinity". I am very "alpha male" in my professional life and with friends, I am simply a wimp when it comes to women. Apparently this dichotomy isn't abnormal... .

I read somewhere that current american society is particularly adept at turning out men like this. Why? Because we are raised as young boys by single women, with largely absentee fathers... then we get sent off into a school system also dominated by women. We are basically trained, from a young age, to seek approval from women, and to be told what to do by women. They are our authority figures and it imprints us to treats them as such.

I again agree, you've hit the nail on the head. Its much easier to be 'alpha' at work than it is at home with a BPD, work follows logical patterns, you work hard, you get paid, you get promoted. You go home to a BPD and who knows what is gonna happen, you're a good husband you get raged at, you're a bad husband you get raged at. You kinda have to realise yourself, become a full man.

I guess in the end there is no 100% complete solution, but if you became alpha with women I guess you wouldn't stand for a pwBPD.

[Blimblam]

Extremely well said. Passivity leads to controlling women, women who have zero respect for weak men. The only way to go is to regain your masculinity, or if you've never been a masculine man - to find your masculinity.

well while what you said is certainly true, I don't know if I'd lump it under "masculinity". I am very "alpha male" in my professional life and with friends, I am simply a wimp when it comes to women. Apparently this dichotomy isn't abnormal... .

I read somewhere that current american society is particularly adept at turning out men like this. Why? Because we are raised as young boys by single women, with largely absentee fathers... then we get sent off into a school system also dominated by women. We are basically trained, from a young age, to seek approval from women, and to be told what to do by women. They are our authority figures and it imprints us to treats them as such.

Tim tom I think you have been reading too much of that male empowerment stuff. Lol.

There is some merrit to a lot if that work though but it tends to be critically flawed at it's core.

Look 100 years ago in the cities men were to busy working then too.  This ideal point in the past we like to think of doesn't exist that's an illusion.

The entire alpha beta male paradigm bs is it encourages narcisism. When ever I hear someone claim to be an alpha male I think he's either heavily narcisistic and projecting his inner pain as a facade or he's a real alpha male which is a psychopath.

If we are going to complain about BPD women then pursue this alpha male aka aspiring to be a narcisist then it's just the other side of the same coin.

Their is such a thing as healthy narcissism but that comes with ballance in all areas of life.

[tim_tom]

Tim tom I think you have been reading too much of that male empowerment stuff. Lol.

There is some merrit to a lot if that work though but it tends to be critically flawed at it's core.

Look 100 years ago in the cities men were to busy working then too.  This ideal point in the past we like to think of doesn't exist that's an illusion.

The entire alpha beta male paradigm bs is it encourages narcisism. When ever I hear someone claim to be an alpha male I think he's either heavily narcisistic and projecting his inner pain as a facade or he's a real alpha male which is a psychopath.

If we are going to complain about BPD women then pursue this alpha male aka aspiring to be a narcisist then it's just the other side of the same coin.

Their is such a thing as healthy narcissism but that comes with ballance in all areas of life.

Well, I put "alpha male" in quotes for a reason. The point is that I am able to be assertive, have boundaries, speak my mind, and actually lead people (I have over 100 people that report up to me)

This is completely different then how I am with women, where I have no boundaries and am afraid to speak my mind...

If you are speaking about the  hypothesized impact of my childhood, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. I fit the mold perfectly, and actually discussed with my female T who found merit in it. We are all on a BPD board, where it's generally acknowledged that some form of childhood abuse/neglect contributed to the formation of the disorder. Clearly how you are raised can and does have an impact on the adult you become, I'm suggesting that some of us guys were impacted as well... in a different, but also debilitating way.

[Blimblam]

Tim tom I think you have been reading too much of that male empowerment stuff. Lol.

There is some merrit to a lot if that work though but it tends to be critically flawed at it's core.

Look 100 years ago in the cities men were to busy working then too.  This ideal point in the past we like to think of doesn't exist that's an illusion.

The entire alpha beta male paradigm bs is it encourages narcisism. When ever I hear someone claim to be an alpha male I think he's either heavily narcisistic and projecting his inner pain as a facade or he's a real alpha male which is a psychopath.

If we are going to complain about BPD women then pursue this alpha male aka aspiring to be a narcisist then it's just the other side of the same coin.

Their is such a thing as healthy narcissism but that comes with ballance in all areas of life.

Well, I put "alpha male" in quotes for a reason. The point is that I am able to be assertive, have boundaries, speak my mind, and actually lead people (I have over 100 people that report up to me)

This is completely different then how I am with women, where I have no boundaries and am afraid to speak my mind...

If you are speaking about the  hypothesized impact of my childhood, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. I fit the mold perfectly, and actually discussed with my female T who found merit in it. We are all on a BPD board, where it's generally acknowledged that some form of childhood abuse/neglect contributed to the formation of the disorder. Clearly how you are raised can and does have an impact on the adult you become, I'm suggesting that some of us guys were impacted as well... in a different, but also debilitating way.

Totally agree with you here.

It just that I think that the "alpha male" things tends to be a coping mechanism for early truama that actually tends to be successful in the context of society. Thus it can go on unchallenged untill an experience like a borderline rs comes along as a wake up call.

[cleverusername]

That is also a sign of low self-esteem. You invent reasons to avoid contact with people, probably because you know you 'could' have a relationship with that person, i... e. they like you. Knowing someone likes you makes it too real and triggers you. A BPD relationship works because they mirror you, and because they're 'fantasy people'. They're not real. If some Hot 10 appeared on the site and messaged you, you would have the same issue, except you'd be too clingy or needy, you'd push them away for the SAME reason you ignore unattractive/plain girls. Your low self-esteem. It's easy to just say "they're unattractive", and then focus all your attention on the hotties, because they're at a safe distance.

The thing is, I'm not actually inventing reasons to avoid contact with people. You say "knowing someone likes you makes it too real and triggers you" but I don't think that's the case at all. Knowing someone likes me is exactly what I want, and that's why it was so easy to get involved with me ex. Just because someone messages me doesn't mean they like me, they just liked my pictures and profile... .they haven't even met me yet.

I really don't think I'd have the same issue if a 10 were to message me. I've had a couple very attractive girls (seriously, like two maybe? In 3 years) message me in the past and I think I handled it all pretty well. Went on a date with one that didn't work out, but I'm sure wasn't because I acted clingy. The other I never ended up meeting because I got sick on the day we were supposed to meet and she ended up losing interest or something.

In person it's a different story though, I'd probably be intimidated by a 10 and be nervous talking to her, haha.

[cleverusername]

As far as what everyone is saying about how women don't like passive men, I think I'm passive in some ways but not in others. For instance, I don't like to take charge and say "let's go out for dinner/drinks at this place"... .I'd much rather have a conversation with an adult where we both have input on where we go. It doesn't make sense to me that women apparently just want to be dragged around to whatever place the man chooses. I wouldn't want that, I want to have input and I don't want to feel like I'm bringing someone somewhere that they may not even like or want to go to. Don't even get me started on guys who order a girls meal for them like you see on TV/movies. That doesn't actually happen in real life, right? But don't get this confused with me not taking charge and asking a girl out after we've been talking for a little while, initiating a second date, etc, because I do do those types of things.

The other thing is, all things considered, I don't really think I was a doormat with my ex. I think that's why it only lasted 4 months while she strung around prior exes for between 1 and 2+ years. I did stand my ground and set boundaries. A couple weeks before the breakup I told her that I really needed some time to myself for a day of the weekend sometimes instead of spending the entire time with her. I also told her that I didn't like how she made plans for our entire weekend a week in advance and would get upset if I ended up wanting to deviate from those plans at all (like meeting with a friend who was in town visiting, even though I wanted her to come with). I knew she would flip out but I told her these things anyway. I ended up making a compromise because I knew I was going on vacation soon and wouldn't be able to see her for a week (and two weekends), but I stood my ground and was prepared to do it again when I got home from the trip (if the relationship had continued).

I also stood my ground the last time I saw her before the breakup when she brought up her marriage and babies timeline for the millionth time, and told her how I didn't feel that it was right to be thinking about that all the time and for it to cause her to constantly question the relationship. She also wanted me to move in with her and I resisted and said it was too early. She needed someone to be more of a doormat than I was, which is why I think the relationship ended.

As far as my passive approach to online dating where I mostly wait for girls to initiate, I think I'm like that more because I've found it to be a complete waste of time to message a girl first. They almost never respond even though I take the time to read their profile and try to tailor the message to the specific person and their interests. And I don't blame them for not responding when all of the girls who are somewhat attractive or better are getting hundreds of messages. My ex was attractive but not a stunner by any means and she told me she got over a hundred messages within hours of joining the site. It's crazy.

[Blimblam]

Just focus on you.  For now healing. Later personal interests.

At some point start dating yourself.  Like talk to yourself and treat yourself like you did your ex in the honey moon phase.  

There's a little voice inside you that sees a bakery and thinks I want a fn cookie. Learn to hear this "voice" and then create an inner dialogue with it and talk to it how you would talk to your ex to get her excited about things. Say to it "yes let's get a cookie this is going to be frigen delish".  

Deserts is a good place to start because your inner child loves sweets.  Then step it up to I don't know a hike a picnic reading under a tree.

Nurture this inner dialogue eventually this will lead you to try new things find passions. This is what attracts women is a passionate man and nice clothes.

This is later on stuff though.

For now stay with your pain and work through the healing process

I've healed from a BPD relationship before took me 2.5 years. I got really passionate about something and had a ton of women throw themselves at me. I was too busy though. Eventually I had a choice between the hottest cool chick in town and this girl that idealized me and followed me around everywhere. If I knew what I know now then I would have chose the hot chick but I didn't know red flags.

I didn't have much of anything either I was broke super broke but I was extremely passionate. It's natural "game".

[christoff522]

As far as what everyone is saying about how women don't like passive men, I think I'm passive in some ways but not in others. For instance, I don't like to take charge and say "let's go out for dinner/drinks at this place"... .I'd much rather have a conversation with an adult where we both have input on where we go. It doesn't make sense to me that women apparently just want to be dragged around to whatever place the man chooses. I wouldn't want that, I want to have input and I don't want to feel like I'm bringing someone somewhere that they may not even like or want to go to. Don't even get me started on guys who order a girls meal for them like you see on TV/movies. That doesn't actually happen in real life, right? But don't get this confused with me not taking charge and asking a girl out after we've been talking for a little while, initiating a second date, etc, because I do do those types of things.

The other thing is, all things considered, I don't really think I was a doormat with my ex. I think that's why it only lasted 4 months while she strung around prior exes for between 1 and 2+ years. I did stand my ground and set boundaries. A couple weeks before the breakup I told her that I really needed some time to myself for a day of the weekend sometimes instead of spending the entire time with her. I also told her that I didn't like how she made plans for our entire weekend a week in advance and would get upset if I ended up wanting to deviate from those plans at all (like meeting with a friend who was in town visiting, even though I wanted her to come with). I knew she would flip out but I told her these things anyway. I ended up making a compromise because I knew I was going on vacation soon and wouldn't be able to see her for a week (and two weekends), but I stood my ground and was prepared to do it again when I got home from the trip (if the relationship had continued).

I also stood my ground the last time I saw her before the breakup when she brought up her marriage and babies timeline for the millionth time, and told her how I didn't feel that it was right to be thinking about that all the time and for it to cause her to constantly question the relationship. She also wanted me to move in with her and I resisted and said it was too early. She needed someone to be more of a doormat than I was, which is why I think the relationship ended.

As far as my passive approach to online dating where I mostly wait for girls to initiate, I think I'm like that more because I've found it to be a complete waste of time to message a girl first. They almost never respond even though I take the time to read their profile and try to tailor the message to the specific person and their interests. And I don't blame them for not responding when all of the girls who are somewhat attractive or better are getting hundreds of messages. My ex was attractive but not a stunner by any means and she told me she got over a hundred messages within hours of joining the site. It's crazy.

Nah, the issue isn't equality, its sacrificing masculinity for the sake of femininity. Basically a man sacrificing his wants and desires for the sake of pleasing the woman. A woman who is 'asked' what she wants all the time, will feel like the man has no idea what he wants. Now stretch that over 4 months and you have a woman who feels like she's running the relationship with a placative people pleasing guy who has no spine.

I agree you probably lost interest, you likely got tired of her nagging, her clinginess etc and decided to stand your ground, it was too much out of character for you and she sensed you were likely to abandon her pretty soon, so she broke it off.

When it comes to online dating, i don't bother with it.

[cleverusername]

Blimblam, you're right, I definitely do need to find something I'm passionate about. I had a talk with my sister about that recently, and how while I have things I enjoy doing there really isn't much I get excited to talk to people about. The closest things I have to passions are technology and weight lifting, and I have yet to find a girl who is all that interested in either. My other problem is I think I downplay it when I do talk about these passions. I guess I kind of assume they won't be very interested and I don't want to go off on a tangent about something they don't really care about. Some people act like they care, but most don't I think. Maybe I'm wrong and it works the other way around... .like if I show excitement about these things that they will become more interested, ask questions, etc.

Something I think is kind of related that happened last weekend was I was with a friend a couple girls I don't know well (not girls I'm romantically interested in) and one of them asked me to tell them something interesting about myself. I had no answer. They had to egg me on and say that there has to been something interesting about me. I ended up saying that I've been to Italy... .I don't even find that all that interesting and it's something I did years ago. I really don't find myself to be an interesting person and don't know where to start in order to become one.

[Blimblam]

Don't focus on the object

Focus on feeling your pain and healing. Try to forget the what's if if onlys and should be

And like I said when you are ready date yourself and work on that relationship with the part of your Self that gets excited over desert. The inner child. And talk to it with your concious thought like when you would take your ex out for ice cream.

The other things will fall in place.

[cleverusername]

Nah, the issue isn't equality, its sacrificing masculinity for the sake of femininity. Basically a man sacrificing his wants and desires for the sake of pleasing the woman. A woman who is 'asked' what she wants all the time, will feel like the man has no idea what he wants. Now stretch that over 4 months and you have a woman who feels like she's running the relationship with a placative people pleasing guy who has no spine.

I totally get what you mean here. The problem is, I truly don't know what I want. I'm very indecisive. Even when it comes to picking a place to go out to eat, there is almost no type of food that I dislike. I'm the least picky eater, and combine that with the indecisiveness and I'd honestly rather just have someone choose for me. Maybe I'll go to that website that has all different types of food on a wheel and use that to decide where to go for dinner dates, haha.

I think this might have something to do with my lack of passion. I don't know what I want because I really don't care that much about very many things. I also didn't go out of my way to find things to do when I was dating my ex because I'm pretty used to just being home a lot, going to the gym a lot, and then meeting with friends on the weekends to do the same things we always do and I never end up having to do any planning. I really don't have anything I really want to do/experience in life, like travel to specific places, etc.

I think this goes back to my possibly being DPD... .I've always depended on others to do the planning, whether it was my parents planning trips (which I still go on with them sometimes), friends planning trips, events, etc. I think somewhere deep down a part of me thinks people wont want to do what I want to do. One odd example is that last weekend I went to an event with one friend group, and I had told a friend from another group that he and that group could join us. A few days later he called me and invited me to the same event... .it was like it never even registered that I invited him to do something. Maybe this is because I've known the guy most of my life and it was so out of character he didn't even acknowledge it, I don't know... .

When it comes to online dating, i don't bother with it.

I wish I could do "real life" dating instead of online. The problem is that I have no idea how to initiate conversation with a stranger, especially when it's in a loud bar/club type atmosphere. The atmosphere just overwhelms me and I'm not sure how guys hit on girls when they can't even hear themselves talk. I'm also very afraid of rejection, especially rejection occurring in front of lots of people. I've found that I do well talking to girls within a friend group, but it's pretty rare there is an attractive single girl in the group I'm with.

[Blimblam]

"The problem"

"I wish"

This is your self talk right now which is the main issue. You have a story in place with. Built in automated excuses.

Let the story go.

You aren't ready for this discussion dude you are looking for ways to compare yourself and avoid your current pain.

Stay with the pain man when you are ready. 

[christoff522]

I totally get what you mean here. The problem is, I truly don't know what I want. I'm very indecisive. Even when it comes to picking a place to go out to eat, there is almost no type of food that I dislike. I'm the least picky eater, and combine that with the indecisiveness and I'd honestly rather just have someone choose for me. Maybe I'll go to that website that has all different types of food on a wheel and use that to decide where to go for dinner dates, haha.

Actually thats a really good idea. Bit of advice though, in going on first dates etc, do something where you're both moving round, don't do dinner, its far too awkward. Maybe bowling, ice skating, pool, laser quest even. Something where the two of you can have fun and bond. The problem with having a woman choose for you goes back far in our history. Then man set the rules, he is comfortable in his own skin. A date is essentially advertising and selling yourself as a man. A guy who'll take a girl to dinner is two a penny, but you're gonna be sitting across the table awkward as hell and she's just gonna want to get out of there. But you take her bowling, you're showing competitive spirit, and a fun and outgoing nature. You can tease her, you can make a couple jokes, throw the ball and get a strike... its better than trying to sell yourself over spag bol. After bowling you can take her for a drink, maybe even make a thing out of it "you win I get the first round in, I win you pay" and give her a cheeky wink.

I think this might have something to do with my lack of passion. I don't know what I want because I really don't care that much about very many things. I also didn't go out of my way to find things to do when I was dating my ex because I'm pretty used to just being home a lot, going to the gym a lot, and then meeting with friends on the weekends to do the same things we always do and I never end up having to do any planning. I really don't have anything I really want to do/experience in life, like travel to specific places, etc.

This is your own expectations holding you back. You expect crap and so you pull in crap. Its not a lack of passion, its a perceived lack of passion, you self-sabotage. Honestly, most guys are like this, I used to be the same. The problem you've had is the BPD girl has cemented this feeling in you. But you're going the gym, thats something you do, and you have friends... that means you have the opportunity to do new things with them, if they don't wanna do stuff, then go it alone, but what harm is there in spending your free time with a book, learning something new? Or pushing yourself to try new things. Honestly, its not about finding love, its about becoming the better you. If you don't try new things, you won't grow as a human being. For me, this weekend I'm going clubbing, I'm dressing myself in brand new clothes, using brand new scent, and I'm going to look awesome.

I think this goes back to my possibly being DPD... .I've always depended on others to do the planning, whether it was my parents planning trips (which I still go on with them sometimes), friends planning trips, events, etc. I think somewhere deep down a part of me thinks people wont want to do what I want to do.

Thats not DPD, thats having no self-confidence. Thats being beta male... a lot of men are like this, its the product of feminist society and NOT a sign of a disorder. You just fail to see yourself as a valid human being worthy of respect and deserving of happiness. Sir, you're depressed... not a sufferer of some personality disorder

One odd example is that last weekend I went to an event with one friend group, and I had told a friend from another group that he and that group could join us. A few days later he called me and invited me to the same event... .it was like it never even registered that I invited him to do something. Maybe this is because I've known the guy most of my life and it was so out of character he didn't even acknowledge it, I don't know... .

Maybe you didn't carry yourself quite as well as you'd wanted to. Understand something though, as much as that might stick in your craw, it doesn't matter. It's just a misunderstanding.

I wish I could do "real life" dating instead of online. The problem is that I have no idea how to initiate conversation with a stranger, especially when it's in a loud bar/club type atmosphere. The atmosphere just overwhelms me and I'm not sure how guys hit on girls when they can't even hear themselves talk. I'm also very afraid of rejection, especially rejection occurring in front of lots of people. I've found that I do well talking to girls within a friend group, but it's pretty rare there is an attractive single girl in the group I'm with.

This is where you need to learn this stuff. The beauty of a nightclub is a girl is a little drunk and less inhibited, you get up close, and you simply enjoy the experience. But loud bar/club ain't everything. You can meet girls anywhere, they're everywhere. Most are as shy as you. Hey, I'm as afraid of rejection as you, less so recently. But I still text my BPD girl daily, trying to eek out something from her. So the idea of her rejecting me obviously scares the ___ out of me. Less so with any other girl. To quote Hank Moody - we're starcrossed lovers.

So I'm going to give you some pointers now on sorting yourself out. This isn't one size fits all though.

1) First thing to do is find yourself some subliminals, youtube is the best place. You have to do this daily though...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngOlPBSrNdc

Something like this will be good. It would be even better if you could download it and play it on a loop every night for the length of time you're in bed. Pretty easy to do as theres lots of websites and apps that allow you to do it. It really will make a difference. I'm using a program from a company thats in six stages but it costs $500. If you want that I can give you a link to where you get it for free, however thats against the lawwww.

2) Second thing is to read: How to become an Alpha Male by John Alexander

www.amazon.com/Become-Alpha-Male-John-Alexander/dp/1411636600



This gives you the how, the why, the what of what it is to be an attractive man, and although it's basic, it lets you see where you're lacking.

2a) Read the Book of Pook

www.djbible.classicalgasemissions.com/book_of_pook.pdf



If you read any book on dating, read this. This should be your bible from now on. It'll show you whats attractive to women, and help you to understand their idiosynchrises. This is deep inner game stuff

3) Find yourself a nice torrent on dating, The Pirate Bay has lots of video programs you can download that'll help you. Theres stuff by David DeAngelo, But probably the best one for you would be the Tao of Badass - it

4) Go out at night. Surely you and your friends could get yourselves out on a Saturday night. A nice loud bar may be overwhelming, but get some beer in you and you're bound to bump into some girls. Even if you're the biggest beta/AFC out there, the subliminals, the book, and the videos I've shown you will help you and have an effect on you. Notice as well - its ALL proactive, you've made an effort, and just having made that effort will make you more confident and more attractive.

5) Join a PUA site, sosuave.net is your best bet. Theres archives years old dating back to 2000. You can also see the posts made by Pook (the guy who's book I linked), and you can also internalise some of the ways described by the guys there.

6) Find an alpha male and study him. I heard about Hank Moody from Californication, I'm on season 6 now. He's a good character to emulate, his attitude is; don't give a f***, completely self assured, romantic yet detached, loves all women, and he has encountered crazies just like we have. He also has one woman who he is completely devoted to, yet he doesn't let that stop him from achieving what he wants. But if you know someone who is 'alpha' or an incredible success with women, ask them how they do it (trust me when they'll be more than happy to help). Try to get in a situation where you can watch them talk to women and look at his body language, the subjects he talks about etc

7) Try to remove negativity from your life. Thats simply the people, or activities that aren't fulfilling you... if they don't help get rid of them. You may actually have friends who are BPD - They may be holding you back, you don't need them and their psychology is affecting you. You may also have friends who are complete losers... if you want to grow as a man, you'll find as you advance that they fall away. }

Just a few pointers. Good luck.

[cleverusername]

Thanks for all of the pointers christoff522, and for taking the time to write all that! I'll check out the links you provided.

I'm definitely going to be taking some of your advice. In fact, I just set up a first date with a girl I met online and we're going to a Halloween theme park this weekend, so that should be fun and should take my mind off of things a bit.

[cleverusername]

One thing that I have learned through all of this that I think will go along way toward making me a more complete, better person is that I'm incredibly insecure. What I liked so much about this relationship was that I was being pursued. And I think that's why it took so long for me to get into my first relationship, because I was not willing to be the pursuer.

When you're pursued, you know the person likes you and you have no reason to feel insecure about how they feel about you. When you do the pursuing, you set yourself up for rejection, or for people to just kind of passively like you, go out with you, etc, and they really may not be that interested. When you're the one being pursued, you know they are really interested and willing to put in the work. I'm even like this with my friends and this is why I always let them do the inviting. Even friends I've known for most of my life.

One thing I've realized that I did wrong in the relationship was that while being pursued and idealized by my ex I didn't give her enough back to show that I really cared about her. I know it's difficult to keep up with a pwBPD who is idealizing you but I think I was at the other extreme, and way too guarded. When she said things early on like that she was "crazy about me," etc, I didn't really reciprocate. Yes, it was early for her to say such things and that kind of freaked me out (I think this was also due to my own insecurity), but I did really like her, she did make me feel great, and I know I didn't give back enough to make her feel like I was securely with her. Then I think she would realize this and that was when we'd have a talk about how she didn't think it was working out, or she'd actually initiate a short-lived breakup. During these times I always talked her through her feelings and showed her that I didn't want to breakup, and this would pull her back in and make her believe I really did care about her.

I was just continuously horrible at demonstrating it. I realize now that while I can't fully take the blame for the relationship failing since she put a lot of strain on the relationship with her behavior and rages, I definitely share in the blame. Now that I think about it, during our last week together I was probably at my absolute worst at demonstrating that I cared about her, at a time when she needed it most since I was about to go on vacation without her. We went out to a nice restaurant for dinner and while we were eating she she gave me this look like she absolutely adored me, and told me how happy she was to be with me. I didn't know what to say and probably just had a dumb look on my face, so she laughed and asked me what I was thinking, and I just smiled and said "nothing." I just shed tears at the thought of the look of love she had on her face that night... .

Later that night she drunkenly told me she loved me. The next day she told me she knew she said it while she was drunk but that she meant it. She asked me if I had said "thanks" and laughed about it. I think she knew I couldn't say it back just yet, because it was all a new experience for me, but I did nothing to reassure her that I cared besides maybe hug her. I had no words. I wanted to process it and to be able to say it back to her with 100% certainty. I wanted to know I truly meant it when I first told a girl I loved her. But I needed to give her something and I didn't.

I think this is what led to her bringing up her timeline for getting married and having kids the next time we met for dinner (our last date), and basically setting an ultimatum. She'd had a few days to let it sink in that I didn't tell her I loved her back, and even though I had 4 days to think about it I still hadn't said it. And I failed this test too because I didn't do a good enough job reassuring her that she meant a lot to me and I didn't want to lose her.

When we broke up she told me she didn't actually love me, and that she was just being emotional, but I don't think that's true. My sister actually ended up bumping into a guy who was with us when we went out to bars the last weekend we spent together. When my sister told him that my ex and I had broken up he thought that was crazy because my ex had told the whole group that she loved me but hadn't told me yet (when I wasn't around to hear it).

I'm just really conflicted now. I know her rages and the fact that she would get upset every time I wanted to have even a little bit of time to myself on weekends would have caused conflict with any introverted guy like me, but I was planning on addressing these things more after I got back from vacation, but never got the chance. Now I realize that the breakup was probably as much my fault as it was hers and I may have been the cause of a lot of her bad behavior.

Ugh, this started out as a post about me being insecure and turned into me feeling horrible and like the breakup was my fault. I need to stop doing this to myself... .