Hi, new guy here

[Depression = 72% of members]

Howdy,

I'm a 31 year old male with a 31 year old SO. We've been together almost 4 years now and I'm finally getting around to finding out that she's more than likely BPD.

I am a recovering alcoholic who drank before we met, during our relationship and have just passed my 90 day sobriety mark. I am in IOP (intensive outpatient) treatment myself, three days a week -- 9 hours total. In my treatment I am learning about codependency and toxic shame -- both which seem to dovetail into BPD.

While I was drinking it was easier to cope with her BPD outbursts, splitting, shame and guilt blaming. I was able to "tune out" and not allow it to get to me. As I have progressed in my own path to betterment, I have begun to feel a newfound sense of self esteem and confidence. I am getting better ever day, but she seems to be stuck.

I've picked up some books, and been doing some reading. It's amazing to me because it seems like the authors have psychic powers or know my girlfriend personally!

The problem I am running into is that all the communication techniques like DEAR don't work for us. Any time I try to use a suggested mode of communication, I am being "condescending" or "patronizing". I am not getting upset or angry which she apparently wants me to be doing.

She thinks I am trying to psychoanalyze her, and tells me to stop trying to talk like a therapist (usually in some pretty foul language at high volumes).

I don't know what to do. I have to anticipate every possible need she may have and make sure I get it done and be out of her way otherwise I'll get an earful. Is it breeding resentment? Absolutley. One thing I've learned in my own personal journey with my own substance abuse problems is that resentments get you drunk. I'm sober now, and I don't want to ever go back down that path.

I've been trying to work on boundaries, but no matter how hard I try it seems they never stick. She's had a lifetime of learning how to turn something around back on someone not once, but twice on top of itself. It's insane and amazing she can do that. Instead of her being the victim, now I'm the victim and she's patronizing me saying, "oh poor you, you never do anything wrong... ."

How can I make things better?

[Lighthouse82]

Howdy,

I'm a 31 year old male with a 31 year old SO. We've been together almost 4 years now and I'm finally getting around to finding out that she's more than likely BPD.

I am a recovering alcoholic who drank before we met, during our relationship and have just passed my 90 day sobriety mark. I am in IOP (intensive outpatient) treatment myself, three days a week -- 9 hours total. In my treatment I am learning about codependency and toxic shame -- both which seem to dovetail into BPD.

While I was drinking it was easier to cope with her BPD outbursts, splitting, shame and guilt blaming. I was able to "tune out" and not allow it to get to me. As I have progressed in my own path to betterment, I have begun to feel a newfound sense of self esteem and confidence. I am getting better ever day, but she seems to be stuck.

I've picked up some books, and been doing some reading. It's amazing to me because it seems like the authors have psychic powers or know my girlfriend personally!

The problem I am running into is that all the communication techniques like DEAR don't work for us. Any time I try to use a suggested mode of communication, I am being "condescending" or "patronizing". I am not getting upset or angry which she apparently wants me to be doing.

She thinks I am trying to psychoanalyze her, and tells me to stop trying to talk like a therapist (usually in some pretty foul language at high volumes).

I don't know what to do. I have to anticipate every possible need she may have and make sure I get it done and be out of her way otherwise I'll get an earful. Is it breeding resentment? Absolutley. One thing I've learned in my own personal journey with my own substance abuse problems is that resentments get you drunk. I'm sober now, and I don't want to ever go back down that path.

I've been trying to work on boundaries, but no matter how hard I try it seems they never stick. She's had a lifetime of learning how to turn something around back on someone not once, but twice on top of itself. It's insane and amazing she can do that. Instead of her being the victim, now I'm the victim and she's patronizing me saying, "oh poor you, you never do anything wrong... ."

How can I make things better?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[maxsterling]

Welcome Lighthouse82 

First, congrats on your sobriety!  That takes tremendous strength and courage. 

What you are dealing with regarding your SO sounds quite typical of dealing with a BPD partner.  They make everything about you, blame the world on you, and you are left with a confused head and not knowing which way is up.  Whether she ever is officially diagnosed BPD or not, the tools on this message board should help you help yourself.

A few questions - is she sober?  Could make a difference in how to best deal with her and the r/s.  Second question - does she or has she ever sought professional help?  Her reactions to you using the tools sound a lot like my SO's reactions.  And she has had a lifetime of therapies, and will accuse others of trying to psychoanalyze her, and sometimes accuse me of *not* validating her or helping her. 

I'm glad you found us here.   I'm sure the information here will really help you on your journey.

[Lighthouse82]

Welcome Lighthouse82 

First, congrats on your sobriety!  That takes tremendous strength and courage. 

What you are dealing with regarding your SO sounds quite typical of dealing with a BPD partner.  They make everything about you, blame the world on you, and you are left with a confused head and not knowing which way is up.  Whether she ever is officially diagnosed BPD or not, the tools on this message board should help you help yourself.

A few questions - is she sober?  Could make a difference in how to best deal with her and the r/s.  Second question - does she or has she ever sought professional help?  Her reactions to you using the tools sound a lot like my SO's reactions.  And she has had a lifetime of therapies, and will accuse others of trying to psychoanalyze her, and sometimes accuse me of *not* validating her or helping her. 

I'm glad you found us here.   I'm sure the information here will really help you on your journey.

Thanks!

No, she doesn't drink or use drugs. In a way I think she secretly liked that I drank, because that gave her an excuse to be upset and vent her frustrations about herself onto me. Being drunk also put me in a weakened position and an easy target.

As far as her own help? Not while we've been together. She made a passing mention to attending therapy when she was a teenager for physical/mental/sexual abuse by her step father.

She never knew her real father and was raised by her step father. After her twin half brothers and sister were born she claims that she was treated very differently because she was not "his" kid. She claims to have several years of her childhood (5-8) blacked out in her memory.

She seems to move from job to job -- because there is always someone out to get her. She's had people fired by going to HR and ruined other people's lives because they didn't play ball the way she wanted them to. I can't understand how she can't see the pattern. Every. Single. Job.

I've tried to bring up the topic of professional help, but then again I'm the (insert foul word) alcoholic not her. This morning she began to rage on me because I sighed. I sighed because I was doing dishes and a fork fell down the drain and the sink was full of hot water. I wasn't even talking or looking at her. Somehow it didn't "sit right" with her and she blew up and accused me of being a blank-hole all last weekend (news to me?).

How can someone act like that and not see that it isn't normal? I still cannot fathom how she can behave like this and think it's OK?

It probably doesn't help that she works at the DMV.

[maxsterling]

that all sounds way too familiar!  Same goes with my SO regarding work - has never had a job longer than about a year.  She either decides she hates everyone there and quits, or she rubs people the wrong way and is disciplined, so she quits.  I'm sure you being an alcoholic is an easy target for her.  But rest assured, even if you weren't, she would probably blame you because you aren't an alcoholic   I think in my r/s, she has little cause to blame me, so instead she blames me for being too stable

Your dishes story sounds all too familiar.  She expects you to be perfect (impossible, because she doesn't even know what perfect is), and any little non perfect gesture could set her off.  Next time it could be because you sneezed too loud or at the wrong time.  I wouldn't push for her to go see a T - if you have mentioned it once, that's all you need.  Focus on you, and leave her struggles up to her.

[ColdEthyl]

First of all, congratulations to you on 90 days sobriety and a job well done!

I've picked up some books, and been doing some reading. It's amazing to me because it seems like the authors have psychic powers or know my girlfriend personally!

I felt the exact same way about books and when you read other people's stories on this site, you will think you are in the Twilight Zone!

Effective communication with a pwBPD takes a bit of time, finesse and tools to learn. The fork in the sink... .yep I've had that blowup. I sighed once because when I got home I was taking off my shoes and found a hole in one of my favorite socks. My dBPDh internalized it as I was sighing at him for some unknown reason, and the raging ensued.

[Lighthouse82]

Sometimes I think she wants me to relapse and go back to drinking because she can use that as a means to displace her own feelings of insecurity and low self-worth onto me.

So has anyone found ANY kind of meaningful ways to de-escalate someone with BPD when they are on a "rampage"? Even the suggested help in "Walking on Eggshells" isn't working, as I said she takes it as me being condescending and patronizing. I think that the techniques sound to calm, grounded and mature to her.

I'm almost thinking that in order to talk to a five year old, you need to talk like a five year old, not a clinical therapist. When I say things like, "I understand your upset that you think I smoked all your cigarettes, but I remember it differently. Your pack has been sitting on the end table since I got home and I haven't touched it. You have every right to be angry about whatever you want to be angry about,  but I won't continue talking to you about this until we're both in a better mood".

What I get:

"Oh shut up and stop patronizing me! Your such a self-righteous (swear word). You're a lying POS alcoholic! Do you really want to start? Do you really want me to get angry? (she's already yelling).

I've been surprised the neighbors haven't called the police because of her door slamming and screaming. I learned early on not to try to record her screaming and yelling. She caught me trying to use my cell phone for that, yanked it from my hand and threw it across the room breaking it. The next day she was oh-so-sweet to me and wanted to make love immediately upon waking. She never did pay to have it fixed.

[Lighthouse82]

Well, it happened again this morning.

I have a breathalyzer machine that I have to blow into 6 times a day, and normally I wake up before work and blow into the machine and then take the dog for a walk. All of this occurs before she wakes up. Sometimes the machine can take upwards of 6-8 minutes to "warm up". This morning, the machine was taking it's time and I forgot that I had turned it on and took the dog outside. About five minutes later I got a call on my cell phone (I was already pretty far down the street) from my SO. She was yelling and screaming at me that the machine was going off.

I raced back into the house, and gave an out-of-breath "I'm sorry" and rushed into the kitchen to reset the machine. She began laying into me, telling me that now she had a headache and how I was an irresponsible a-hole. I tried to use the lesson of D.E.A.R. but it didn't work.

She accused me of being not caring because nothing is never my fault and it's "all about you" and how I never do anything wrong. I was maintaining my calm demeanor which seems to anger her even more. She seems to want an emotional response from me -- she wants me to match her anger and I won't do it.

The D.E.A.R technique ultimately failed because she accused me of being condescending and trying to use "psychoanalyzing BS" on her. I'm in a treatment program and I'm sure she attributes new found communication skills to that.

She said, "You are sounding just like how you did when you were drunk, your nothing but a worthless POS drunk, lying alcoholic. You don't care about anyone but yourself! You don't care that I have a headache. Of course not, Lighthouse82 never does anything wrong, nothing is ever his fault."

When using the D.E.A.R steps, she would parrot back what I said in a childish mocking way.

I firmly told her during the A - assertive step that I wasn't going to continue discussing this with her until we were both in a calm mood. I tried to go about my day getting ready, but she followed me into the bathroom. I tried to shut the door so I could lock it, but she pushed the door open. I struggled a bit with her with the door and then I lost my composure. I gave up fighting her for the door and walked out of the bathroom over to the telephone.

I was about to call 911 because I couldn't take it anymore. She then said, "Oh, so what are you going to do? Call the cops? I have a bruise on my arm. You slammed the door on me. You want to go to jail, because that's what'll happen if you call the cops -- they'll take you to jail."

I did not touch her in any way, and she did not have any mark whatsoever on her arm where the door "apparently" had been slammed on her. I decided since these things never work out in favor of a male victim (me) -- to let it go.

I don't know how much more I can do to this. I'm in recovery and doing really, really well. The last thing I need right now is the negativity and hostility in my home. I deserve better, I am a good person. I'm a loving, caring, funny and bright person who deserves to be loved and treated with respect.

I won't lie. Part of me would enjoy going to jail just to be away from her. At least I could read a book in silence without being yelled at for not doing something, or doing something wrong.

[maxsterling]

Wow, Lighthouse, that's really rough   Dealing with those situations is extremely difficult, and I am proud of you for holding yourself together as well as you have.    

For the record, I have called the police on my SO twice.  Both times she was talking about killing herself and I was completely terrified as to what to do.  I rank those two evenings #1 and #2 as the scariest moments of my life, even scarier than having a gun pointed into my back.  What you went through this morning is serious and scary, and be sure to take good care of yourself today . 

Sadly, I have been through very similar to you.  She getting upset with something (something I have no control over, an honest mistake, etc), me trying validate, her wanting to continue the blame, me trying to disengage using the lessons I learned, she deciding to escalate to physical violence, slamming doors, following me, etc.  One time it escalated to her cornering me in the hall way and punching me in the chest, and when I tried to bear hug her so she could not swing her arms, and I could leave, she accused me of choking her and said that if I called the police she would claim I choked her and I would go to jail (despite the fact she had no marks on her, and the next day I had bruises on my chest).

My advice - take a deep breath right now that you have some space.  Take care of you.  Are there any things you can do right now to give you space away from her (hobbies, clubs, go for a walk, drive, stay with a friend, etc.)?

[Lighthouse82]

My advice - take a deep breath right now that you have some space.  Take care of you.  Are there any things you can do right now to give you space away from her (hobbies, clubs, go for a walk, drive, stay with a friend, etc.)?

Thank you for your reply!

I feel so alone in all of this because no one seems to believe me when I describe the way she acts sometimes. People can't believe the person they know can be that intensely angry. She's very good about maintaining herself around people we both know. Even my therapist is skeptical of me thinking she may have BPD.  

Before I dropped out of college and went home I was going to get a minor in psych, so I was already versed in spectrum disorders and the DMS V. I think part of the problem is that BPD isn't taught very much in the education of many mental health practitioners, especially older ones.

It isn't as easy to "get away" -- I'm currently facing a DUI from 3 months ago and am on an ankle monitor. 'm still going to-from work, but she's driving me in the morning. I have to call 24 hours in advance to go anyplace besides work or home.

She's cut me off from all my friends. She's even lied before about my friends to justify me not being friends with them anymore. She didn't like my one closest friend and told me she overheard him saying outrageous things (that I know he'd never say) to his wife.

I've known the man for 20+ years and lived with him for several. He'd never say the types of things she claimed he did. At the time, I didn't see it as her trying to isolate me.

Now, however, I do realize that was exactly what she was doing -- isolating me. Now I'm pretty much on my own.  

[ColdEthyl]

I am so so sorry, man. This is the type of behavior I experienced early on when I didn't know what the heck was going on.

It's going to be rough for awhile. I've found simply saying "You're right" about even a part of what they said seems to help. In your situation, something like "You are right, I did make a mistake and I feel terrible about your headache" but if she's already looking to fight, it might be enough.

When you try to be assertive by setting your boundaries down, it helps to have a time limit. In the example of you disengaging in the conversation, something like "This argument is not healthy for our relationship. I'm going to take a walk until things calm down, and I will be back in 20 minutes."

It's also important to avoid "You" statements with them.

I've experienced the craziness of claiming you hurt them when you have not. One during an argument, my dBPDh was standing in the doorway and wouldn't let me leave. I squeezed past him and the door jab, and he flailed back claiming I shoved him and ranted about physical abuse over and over. Honestly the best way to avoid it is to always remain clam, always remain in control and do not engage them when they are like this.

Sounds like she likes to throw/destroy your things as well. Sadly, so did mine. He's even broken his own stuff to make himself a martyr. Over the years, I've had better success with this behavior (2 years now!) by 1. when he wasn't dysregulating, we discussed my boundaries. I wasn't going to leave, I loved and cared for him, but for me to stay some things needed to be worked on. 2. It's way easier said than done, but stop their dysregulation from getting to that level.

You might have to take a step back from this relationship for you and her, unless there's a time when you feel like you can communicate with her. At some point soon she will have to understand that you love her and are not going anywhere, but there must be boundaries put into place of what you will and will not tolerate.

I'm sorry you are trying to deal with this while also trying to remain sober. Stay strong, Lighthouse and keep talking to us.

Well, it happened again this morning.

I have a breathalyzer machine that I have to blow into 6 times a day, and normally I wake up before work and blow into the machine and then take the dog for a walk. All of this occurs before she wakes up. Sometimes the machine can take upwards of 6-8 minutes to "warm up". This morning, the machine was taking it's time and I forgot that I had turned it on and took the dog outside. About five minutes later I got a call on my cell phone (I was already pretty far down the street) from my SO. She was yelling and screaming at me that the machine was going off.

I raced back into the house, and gave an out-of-breath "I'm sorry" and rushed into the kitchen to reset the machine. She began laying into me, telling me that now she had a headache and how I was an irresponsible a-hole. I tried to use the lesson of D.E.A.R. but it didn't work.

She accused me of being not caring because nothing is never my fault and it's "all about you" and how I never do anything wrong. I was maintaining my calm demeanor which seems to anger her even more. She seems to want an emotional response from me -- she wants me to match her anger and I won't do it.

The D.E.A.R technique ultimately failed because she accused me of being condescending and trying to use "psychoanalyzing BS" on her. I'm in a treatment program and I'm sure she attributes new found communication skills to that.

She said, "You are sounding just like how you did when you were drunk, your nothing but a worthless POS drunk, lying alcoholic. You don't care about anyone but yourself! You don't care that I have a headache. Of course not, Lighthouse82 never does anything wrong, nothing is ever his fault."

When using the D.E.A.R steps, she would parrot back what I said in a childish mocking way.

I firmly told her during the A - assertive step that I wasn't going to continue discussing this with her until we were both in a calm mood. I tried to go about my day getting ready, but she followed me into the bathroom. I tried to shut the door so I could lock it, but she pushed the door open. I struggled a bit with her with the door and then I lost my composure. I gave up fighting her for the door and walked out of the bathroom over to the telephone.

I was about to call 911 because I couldn't take it anymore. She then said, "Oh, so what are you going to do? Call the cops? I have a bruise on my arm. You slammed the door on me. You want to go to jail, because that's what'll happen if you call the cops -- they'll take you to jail."

I did not touch her in any way, and she did not have any mark whatsoever on her arm where the door "apparently" had been slammed on her. I decided since these things never work out in favor of a male victim (me) -- to let it go.

I don't know how much more I can do to this. I'm in recovery and doing really, really well. The last thing I need right now is the negativity and hostility in my home. I deserve better, I am a good person. I'm a loving, caring, funny and bright person who deserves to be loved and treated with respect.

I won't lie. Part of me would enjoy going to jail just to be away from her. At least I could read a book in silence without being yelled at for not doing something, or doing something wrong.

[ColdEthyl]

Most of us suffer like you do. No one knows what he's like. He is really good on putting on the cheerful, caring face that I fell for in public. I'd never talk about it to my parents, but I've tried with his and they don't wanna know. I hope you get some comfort in knowing you are not alone in this. We are all here with you.

My advice - take a deep breath right now that you have some space.  Take care of you.  Are there any things you can do right now to give you space away from her (hobbies, clubs, go for a walk, drive, stay with a friend, etc.)?

Thank you for your reply!

I feel so alone in all of this because no one seems to believe me when I describe the way she acts sometimes. People can't believe the person they know can be that intensely angry. She's very good about maintaining herself around people we both know. Even my therapist is skeptical of me thinking she may have BPD.  

Before I dropped out of college and went home I was going to get a minor in psych, so I was already versed in spectrum disorders and the DMS V. I think part of the problem is that BPD isn't taught very much in the education of many mental health practitioners, especially older ones.

It isn't as easy to "get away" -- I'm currently facing a DUI from 3 months ago and am on an ankle monitor. 'm still going to-from work, but she's driving me in the morning. I have to call 24 hours in advance to go anyplace besides work or home.

She's cut me off from all my friends. She's even lied before about my friends to justify me not being friends with them anymore. She didn't like my one closest friend and told me she overheard him saying outrageous things (that I know he'd never say) to his wife.

I've known the man for 20+ years and lived with him for several. He'd never say the types of things she claimed he did. At the time, I didn't see it as her trying to isolate me.

Now, however, I do realize that was exactly what she was doing -- isolating me. Now I'm pretty much on my own.  

[Lighthouse82]

What I find insanely frustrating is that when I talk to people in my life about my SO, and mention her BPD-like behavior -- they ask, "Oh has she been formally diagnosed with BPD?" And when I say no, they go, "Oh, well you're not a mental health professional" or simply, "Oh... ."

Look, I've taken many college level psych classes as I was going to get into psychology myself. Why do people assume that mental health professionals are some kind of mystical beings that "bestow" diagnoses only on rare occasions? The DSM is pretty straightforward and clear, and I can tick off more than seven of the required five behaviors.

She'll never go to a therapist or see anyone for her behavior. In the unlikely event she did, she would probably hop from therapist to therapist because she wouldn't like what she was getting/hearing from them. She would tell me that they were full of crap or a "quack". She does this same behavior with any other "expert" in their field that she disagrees with.

It's like having a SO that's a creepy clown serial killer, and people not believing you and saying, "Oh... .yeah... .well... ." Meanwhile, the creepy clown is standing there with a knife in the background ready to stab you.

[ColdEthyl]

Yep. Best thing to do is just tell them yes. Yes she's diagnosed. a lot of pwBPD by nature of the illness don't always get a certified stamp. Most people cannot understand that. Most people cannot understand this illness.

What I find insanely frustrating is that when I talk to people in my life about my SO, and mention her BPD-like behavior -- they ask, "Oh has she been formally diagnosed with BPD?" And when I say no, they go, "Oh, well you're not a mental health professional" or simply, "Oh... ."

Look, I've taken many college level psych classes as I was going to get into psychology myself. Why do people assume that mental health professionals are some kind of mystical beings that "bestow" diagnoses only on rare occasions? The DSM is pretty straightforward and clear, and I can tick off more than seven of the required five behaviors.

She'll never go to a therapist or see anyone for her behavior. In the unlikely event she did, she would probably hop from therapist to therapist because she wouldn't like what she was getting/hearing from them. She would tell me that they were full of crap or a "quack". She does this same behavior with any other "expert" in their field that she disagrees with.

It's like having a SO that's a creepy clown serial killer, and people not believing you and saying, "Oh... .yeah... .well... ." Meanwhile, the creepy clown is standing there with a knife in the background ready to stab you.

[Lighthouse82]

Thank you! I had to crack a smile with that! 

If the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" had a picture on its cover, it would be of my SO! Every page I turn I keep nodding my head and my jaw is on the floor. I had no idea people could fit SO WELL into a spectrum disorder!

So, what I guess I need to be doing is stop being a sponge and start becoming a mirror. The only problem with that is, I'm not sure how? 

Yep. Best thing to do is just tell them yes. Yes she's diagnosed. a lot of pwBPD by nature of the illness don't always get a certified stamp. Most people cannot understand that. Most people cannot understand this illness.

What I find insanely frustrating is that when I talk to people in my life about my SO, and mention her BPD-like behavior -- they ask, "Oh has she been formally diagnosed with BPD?" And when I say no, they go, "Oh, well you're not a mental health professional" or simply, "Oh... ."

Look, I've taken many college level psych classes as I was going to get into psychology myself. Why do people assume that mental health professionals are some kind of mystical beings that "bestow" diagnoses only on rare occasions? The DSM is pretty straightforward and clear, and I can tick off more than seven of the required five behaviors.

She'll never go to a therapist or see anyone for her behavior. In the unlikely event she did, she would probably hop from therapist to therapist because she wouldn't like what she was getting/hearing from them. She would tell me that they were full of crap or a "quack". She does this same behavior with any other "expert" in their field that she disagrees with.

It's like having a SO that's a creepy clown serial killer, and people not believing you and saying, "Oh... .yeah... .well... ." Meanwhile, the creepy clown is standing there with a knife in the background ready to stab you.

[Cat Familiar]

I sympathize with you and I'm also new to this board (and a former psych major with some grad school) and yes, when you look at the list of behaviors, it seems glaringly obvious when someone you love is BPD.

The big tell to me is when you get into an argument, which always happens to some extent in relationships, the person who formerly seemed rational (or otherwise you wouldn't have gotten involved with them in the first place) suddenly becomes insane and no amount of logic or reason gets through.

It's really weird for me to be with my uBPDh when he gets like that because he is a lawyer and he knows all sorts of tricks to intimidate and belittle his opponent. But when it's crazy talk and he's trying to win, it's really bizarre to be on the receiving end of that.

Fortunately he's not violent, like my ex husband was, who was also BPD, as was my mother, who later in her life took a swing at me when I told her I was replacing the door she broke in her house.

I guess what I'm learning here (as well as from my previous mistakes with these people) is that when their arousal level is high, they are not rational human beings and I might as well take a time out rather than continue trying to communicate with them. I like the idea of taking a 20 minute break, like so many here suggest. Based on my extensive bad communication history, I now realize that continuing to try to relate to them like "normal" people is pointless when they're disregulated.

[Lighthouse82]

Very true! I could replay a video of an incident and she would deny to my face that what is going on is actually going on. Facts and logic fly right out the window and past events become twisted to suit them. I've been accused of doing things I've never done, saying things I've never said, acting ways I've never acted -- and it isn't just me -- events completely outside of the two of us have been re-imagined to suit whatever "agenda" (if there is one during these rage episodes) is.

I bought a little device that I can attach to any interior door in seconds to lock myself away from her. If she breaks the door down -- well, that's a line in the sand for me. I will call the police at that point. I will not put up with my home being destroyed because she isn't willing to work on her own issues. 

I sympathize with you and I'm also new to this board (and a former psych major with some grad school) and yes, when you look at the list of behaviors, it seems glaringly obvious when someone you love is BPD.

The big tell to me is when you get into an argument, which always happens to some extent in relationships, the person who formerly seemed rational (or otherwise you wouldn't have gotten involved with them in the first place) suddenly becomes insane and no amount of logic or reason gets through.

It's really weird for me to be with my uBPDh when he gets like that because he is a lawyer and he knows all sorts of tricks to intimidate and belittle his opponent. But when it's crazy talk and he's trying to win, it's really bizarre to be on the receiving end of that.

Fortunately he's not violent, like my ex husband was, who was also BPD, as was my mother, who later in her life took a swing at me when I told her I was replacing the door she broke in her house.

I guess what I'm learning here (as well as from my previous mistakes with these people) is that when their arousal level is high, they are not rational human beings and I might as well take a time out rather than continue trying to communicate with them. I like the idea of taking a 20 minute break, like so many here suggest. Based on my extensive bad communication history, I now realize that continuing to try to relate to them like "normal" people is pointless when they're disregulated.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm glad you're protecting yourself and setting limits.

It got so bad with my ex husband that he even assaulted me behind a grocery store. I finally had enough after years of physical abuse that I finally yelled for help one night and felt totally ashamed for doing so. Since we lived in a rural area, it was unlikely that anyone heard me, but just advocating for myself was enough to make him stop.

That night something broke in me and I slept alone with a knife in my hand. I thought if he came after me, I wasn't going to hold back any longer. Fortunately he didn't and I broke up with him the next morning and never for a moment did I regret that decision, even though it was tremendously hard to get disentangled.

[maxsterling]

Regarding diagnosis - It really doesn't matter if she is diagnosed or not.  BPD (as are many illnesses) diagnosed based upon symptoms and not causes.  The symptoms we care about.  Others are probably reacting to your "diagnosis" of her as if you are blaming her for your problems.  When I talk to other people (especially women) about the issues I am dealing with regarding my SO, they would make remarks like, "so what if she has a mental illness. Why don't you leave?"  I agree with the ColdEthyl's post that said there is no reason to mention that she was not diagnosed - it's not important.

I agree with Cat Familiar that even if not officially diagnosed, the BPD behavior is pretty obvious.  I know health care workers may have other things in mind when someone is diagnosed, such as the means of treatment, or other diagnoses that they may find more helpful.  But in the case of my SO, she has been diagnosed BPD multiple times, at different times of her life, by different doctors in different states.  And when I read the checklist, she easily meets all 9 criteria.  :)oes it matter?  No.  What matters to me is that she DOES go to a therapist, and does seek treatment.  Hopefully, Lighthouse82, your wife will eventually be open to that.  It just doesn't sound like she is in that place, yet.  In the case of my SO, her treatment began as a teenager after her school required it of her after some violent and self harming behavior.  Her treatment resumed after a couple of suicide attempts.  Sometimes it takes something serious for them to finally see a psychologist.  Hopefully it won't take that much for your wife.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm late jumping in here. Let me start by saying   and welcome! You have already found a lot of support here.

Second, you mention techniques like DEAR not working for you. I think that is because you are getting ahead of yourself with them.

Start with figuring out what things you do and say are invalidating to her, and just stop them.

And start with enforcing boundaries.

I've been trying to work on boundaries, but no matter how hard I try it seems they never stick. She's had a lifetime of learning how to turn something around back on someone not once, but twice on top of itself. It's insane and amazing she can do that.

Let me give you an example of one boundary I highly recommend you work on: verbal abuse. (Raging, shouting, circular arguments, etc. etc.)

You could try to set a rule: ":)o not verbally abuse me." I'll bet you've done this already. I bet it didn't work. That is because she has the choice here. She can choose to obey the rule or break the rule. Sucks to be you, 'cuz sooner or later she will chose to break it, and away she goes!

Or you could enforce a boundary: "I will not be present with you for verbal abuse."

You enforce your own boundary through YOUR actions. She has no choice in the matter.

If she starts shouting, you can say "I won't put up with this." and walk out of the room. If she follows you, you can walk out of the house. If she keeps following you, get in your car and drive away.

Notice the difference here: YOU have the power. She cannot force you to listen to the bile she wants to spew.

(On the phone you can hang up, not answer calls back, not read texts, even block her number for a while if it gets too bad!)

And note... .you don't even have to tell her about your boundary in advance. In fact, you don't have to say anything at all.

[MaybeSo]

I want to reinforce what GK said about boundaries.

A boundary is really for you. Not her.

If you make it about her... ."don't yell at me"... .it will never work or 'stick'.

It has to be about you.  "I don't stay in a room with a person who is yelling at me."  

That way, the boundary always works as long as YOU are taking responsibility for your own boundary.  :)oes that make sense?

Boundaries can INFLUENCE how a person might behave over time, but that is not the primary intent of the boundary.  

Also, when we start trying new things, like DEAR etc.,  it often doesn't come across very well and these communication techniques honestly can sound clinical and inauthentic to the person hearing it at first and it can have a tendency to feel like you are trying to 'handle' the person.  This is understandable.  Over time, I think these techniques get more fluid and eventually they get incorporated into a more authentic style of communication, and over time they come more from the heart.   But that takes some time and practice and experience.  Sometimes nothing works if a person is too dysregulated.

 

If she is already too dysregulated (flipped her lid) as it appears she was when you got back in the house from your walk... .it's really too late to start trying to 'manage' her or talk her down with words.  You just need to find a way to have a time-out until things calm down, and the less you talk about it the better while she is dysregulated.  Also, it is really common for someone to keep following you into a room when dysregulated because they are feeling frantic ... .that's why you have to be prepared at times to leave the house or go someplace where you can really get away if needed. And sadly, if you really do have to call the cops, then call the cops, but some careful planning and pre-arranged agreements can help avoid that kind of escalation.  It can be very inconvenient at first, but if over time you are not there to participate in the escalation (not struggling with a bathroom door etc. where someone might get hurt)  and if she knows you will be back later and you aren't just leaving her as a punishment... .these things can start to calm down over time.

Finally, congratulations on your sobriety.  That is a huge accomplishment.  Sobriety represents a huge 'change' in the relationship and it can feel destabilizing even when a partner doesn't have a mental illness.  We all think that it's all going to be so good when a person gets into treatment, but we know that it actually tends to upsets the 'system' that has been in place and many couples/familes have a really hard go of it for a while when a member gets clean and sober.  Also, the first year or so of recovery generally requires a huge amount of self-focus, and that alone can upset the apple cart, so to speak.  So have compassion for yourself and for what both of you are going through.  

I wish you the best on your healing journey!

[maxsterling]

Grey Kitty offers good advice here  

Perhaps even taking a further step backwards is prudent here.  This is the "staying" board indicating you have a desire to work on this r/s.  I applaud you for that  .  But - it never hurts to think about where you want this r/s to go and what your limits are.  My experience is that boundaries like Grey Kitty mentioned will help you feel better about yourself because you regain control over your life, but probably won't cause a drastic positive change in her (at least not in the short term).  She will likely get angrier at first, claim you are trying to control her behavior, accuse you of stuff, etc.  You have to keep that in mind and recognize she may not take well to boundaries and run off on the r/s.  You can't control that reaction.

It also helps to try and learn what is going on in her head during these times of extreme emotion.  She is completely out of control of herself.  She truly is a Ms. Hyde.   Scary.  That means there is nothing you can to fix that.  Get out of her way.  And in the case of my SO, I truly think she has a poor memory of what happened after she calms down.  But that also means she is unlikely to "learn" from your boundaries.  My SO has had decades of people enforcing boundaries with her.  You would think after so many failed relationships she would learn to correct her behavior.  The truth is, she can't.  It's naïve for me to expect her to suddenly learn to control her behavior around me to avoid me walking out of the argument.  She didn't learn that with previous partners, why would she learn it with me?  I have had to accept these outbursts will happen.  She does have a personality disorder, after all  .

Really try to wrap your head around the idea that nothing you can change about yourself will fix her.  Tough to do, as I am always falling into that trap!  Boundaries are only to protect you.