Closure is not an option?

[BrokenFamily]

It's remarkable how similar pwBPD react post breakup.

Closure isn't possible for them because that would require them taking partial responsibility for the breakup, which would be more stress than they are prepared to deal with.

They can not remember fond memories because it will give them doubt and anxiety, it's easier for them to paint you and the relationship black rather than cope with the truth.

I'm just not sure if it's conscious decision or they subconsciously know it's what they need to do to avoid feeling pain? 

Do they feel any guilt or remorse?

[ShakinMyHead]

Broken, in my experience, the BPD either paints you black, or recycles you. In my attempts to get any kind of closure typically result in a "Talk", a "meeting", a "dinner", that ends up as a recycle. My exBPDbf is like a venus fly trap. If I'm within a certain radius of him, he just sucks me back in. So, when I really wanted it over, I had to tolerate the verbal assault of being called "indecent and not even looking him in the face to end it". Doing it by text, phone or email, is what his disrespect left me with. Which, of course I learned by my 5th attempt at closure, that closure really means "recycle". You are correct, when they are able to remember the fond memories, they are ready to paint you white again, not "close". That makes no sense to them. That's like throwing a 1/2 an ice-cream cone out? ":)oes not compute Will Robinson"….anything you think you know about loving, kind, compassionate, human beings, turn inside out, then invert and read backwards in a mirror…that's how they think. Arggg  Hugs, SMH

PS, as for guilt & remorse, I believe my exBPD felt something akin to regret from getting caught at stuff, but it always turned into anger at me for finding out, looking, pushing him to it. It was always some reaction he had to take to tolerate being with me or how I made him feel by expecting a basic crumb from the relationship. If he did not have it in his repertoire, or couldn't fake it, or was angry with me, or bored, or had other supply, unbeknownst to me, my request, emasculated him, made him feel bad, made me a monster, was cause for breakup and ST. My educating of him went on way too long and fell on deaf ears, and yes, he always thought it was interesting stuff, but for someone who needed that? Why would I be lecturing him? Don't look back, if possible... .

[Deeno02]

No closure. It was my fault, period, end of story. They accept zero responsibility for the r/s b/u. None.

My fault she has a chaotic schedule

My fault I didnt spend enough time with her... .see above

My fault she only had a 4 hour date window because of her ex

My fault she had 5 kids

My fault my daughter moved back home to attend college closer

My fault her ex-husband is dating his high school gf and eats where ever he wants

My fault she stalks him on FB and Instagram.

My fault for trying to help her feed her kids at dinner time

My fault for trying to help her with her kids schedules

My fault for trying to take the trash out

My fault for trying to put in a trash liner after said garbage was taken out

My fault her and her toxic neighbor think my daughter is a cock block

My fault she has to budget money but buys a 100 dollar Athleta shirt.

My fault I planned a night out

My fault I didnt plan a night out

My fault I was pretty much kept from her friends over the 16 months

My fault theres only like 3 pictures of us in existence(Im sure those are gone now)

My fault she never changed her relationship status on FB.

I can go on, but my point is this. Its all my fault. Been painted black and probably demonized beyond all reproach as she did to her ex husband with me. Dont expect any closure. Dont expect a god damn thing from them other than misery.

[Seriously?]

I really like that comment about throwing out half an ice cream cone. I get confused about the whole mess. I waffle between knowing I want nothing to do with him, to being almost afraid of running into him, to just wanting it all back how it was when I was so in love. My therapist is helping. She helps me operate from a reality standpoint. My divorce hearing will be in January and I am already anxious about having to see him. One thing he said to me at the end was he never pursued me. He said when we broke up and got back together it was my doing. That is true. I always did the breaking up and I always went back to him. It is a special little hurt now when I think of that. I know deep down I don't want him back, but I suppose it would feel validating if he would even reach out. I feel terrible even as I type that. Like I am so weak. Today is just harder than usual for some reason. I have had no contact with him since September 26.  When do the bad days go away? When do I stop caring what he thinks of me or if he does?  My therapist has encouraged me to figure out what he gave me that was so great. I can't even answer that. Sometimes I just feel lost. So surreal an experience.

[hergestridge]

During the last couple of years of our 20 year relationship I had learnt about BPD and I understod that such a thing as closure and friendship would not be an option.

Getting my wife out through the door WAS closure. That's as close as I will ever come.

[BrokenFamily]

Sorry to hear, everyone has a different story but it's amazing how similar pwBPD react and behave. 20 years is a long time and I'm sure you've had your share of ups and downs

[Blimblam]

The way my ex painted me black was confusing. Because she would constantly paint me white and black in a push pull sort of way. The only thing that seemed consistant was her detaching from assuming any sort of responsibility. I was looking for an appology and reconciliation. She wanted to reconcile without assuming any responsibility. A conflict if values I didn't understand.

[BrokenFamily]

I've created my own closure.

She didn't want to be with me and didn't see a future with me anymore for whatever reason.

She met and hooked up with a guy prior to the breakup and did see a future with him so she started a fight to breakup and be with him.

It's unfortunate but that's pretty much all there is to it.

A person without BPD may have accomplished the same goal in a different way taking my feelings into consideration, being honest and rational but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

[BrokenFamily]

Follow up:

I was given a bit of closure last night, my ex admitted the break up was also partially her fault and we were happy up until the end. My biggest concern was me and our whole relationship being painted black, we had so much love and I treated her so good I just couldn't live with her distorted version of events. So I did go to bed on a good note!

Unfortunately I was awaken by a 2am phone call from the ex crying with our daughter screaming in the background. Apparently her mother went out drinking and came home bullying my ex about not waking up in the morning to take care of our daughter and threatened trying to get full custody. This resulted in an all out fist fight which is quite common in the house.

[OutOfEgypt]

I just couldn't live with her distorted version of events.

I totally understand this.  It is always a bit less stressful when my ex wife has gone back to painting me white.  But I know it is only temporary. Furthermore, I know that her distorted view of events won't change.  My teenager's best friend has already bought into my ex's distorted view of things, that she is some kind of victim, and it has made things difficult for my teenager.

But here's an essential thing.  Our emotional future depends on it.  We need to let go of what they think.  We need to let go of what they think and who they tell.  It doesn't matter.  Stand on your own two feet.  You can.  What a terrible thing to hinge yourself upon (their opinion of us and our relationship), ya know?  My ex will never admit to how she really is.  Not in a sustained way.  But I know the truth, and I know deep down she knows it, too.  That's enough for me, even if all of her dumbass, enabling, immature friends believe I'm some kind of jerk who neglected and abused her.

I believe it was Martin Luther who said, "You can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair."  Let go of what she thinks.  Again, your emotional life depends on this.  You are your own person, not her person.

Unfortunately I was awaken by a 2am phone call from the ex crying with our daughter screaming in the background. Apparently her mother went out drinking and came home bullying my ex about not waking up in the morning to take care of our daughter and threatened trying to get full custody. This resulted in an all out fist fight which is quite common in the house.

This may be your ace in the hole.  You could probably file for an emergency protective order to get your daughter put into your custody.  They are drunken fist-fighting at 2am?  A judge could definitely see that as a danger to your daughter.  Write all of this down and all the other times you can remember, with dates and times, and certainly next time this happens... .call the police *while it is still happening*.

I'm sure that is difficult to think about.  I remember my therapist told me to do that one time when my ex called me, having a panic attack, with my kids with her.  They were up on a semi-secluded area of beach, in the car, and she had an anxiety attack and was calling me, crying.  My T told me next time I need to call 911 and say that my children are possibly in danger because they are alone with their mother in a secluded area, in the car, and she is having a psychiatric episode.  Anyway, I know it is difficult to think about... .partly because of FOG and partly because it stirs up painful feelings like we blew it and didn't or can't protect our kids.  But you gotta let that go and realize that this is about doing *what you can* and doing *the best you can*.  You only have control of what you have control of.

[BrokenFamily]

Calling the police after I was informed of the even would have been a great idea as there would have been a report! I do need to start building a case as I have no one and no evidence on my side with the exception of a few neighbors who witnessed her raging temper during our relationship and have called the police at our home. Unfortunately the police would always show up and consider it a mutual domestic and leave. I have filed for emergency custody in the past and it was not granted due to an old assault charge I have on my record from back when I was a bouncer at a bar many years ago. Also they can not pull my ex's psychiatric record (She was 302'd for 6 months prior to our relationship) without a court order so there is no way to prove or even submit evidence of it without it being considered speculation. 

That is a great MLK quote! Recently I've been quite fond of:

"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

Re: Letting go of what people think is also key

I've always given everyone in her family rides, cleaned their house, helped them with money, advice and done all I could to win them over with no avail.

They all seem to believe every kinda act I do is in an effort to manipulate or obtain something in return. I'm not shocked by this as my ex's brother father has been supportive kind and consistent for years and is still seen as and outsider. I respect him a great deal and have often compared myself to him. Much like me he shows up fixes things, drops off money for his child, takes him out to lunch and spends time with him and leaves to go about his own life. Unfortunately I can't be that distant with my daughter because I fear her growing up in a house of and want to be a major part of her life.

My quote of the day is: “Be independent of the good opinion of other people.” ~ Abraham Harold Maslow

I know I'm a great father and love who I am, I will not be deterred or influenced by what others think !

Thank you all once again, have a wonderful day~!

[Mutt]

These memories that are populating your mind is a part of grieving.

[BrokenFamily]

I agree 100%, I keep telling myself I don't have time to grieve and see it as weakness that isn't an option for me at this time. Unfortunately it creeps up on me so suddenly (often in sleep) and puts me in a glass case of emotion.

[OutOfEgypt]

Awesome.  I like to see that fight in you.  It's healthy.  It isn't about fighting her.  It's about fighting to stand on your own two feet and shuck off that garbage and the FOG.  Keep up that attitude, and when you feel that pull into the dark pit of depression where it feels like nothing is good, just remember your goal:  to stand.  That's it.

I think of it this way with my ex.  My goal (and it may take however long to get there) is to be the same no matter how she is acting.  My goal is to be a sturdy oak, planted firmly in the ground, standing tall, and giving shade to those smart enough to be close to me.  

If she is flipping out and accusing me of things, I stand calm, composed, but engaged with life and observing and standing in and stating the truth.  My goal is to be the rational one, the one who cares about right and wrong and being a stable person who isn't pulled to the right or left with all of her constant drama, because I live my own life, autonomously.

And if she if painting me white for a while, I'm the same.  I'm not running around like a puppy dog chasing after her, just so happy that she decided to pet my little head again.  No, I'm still calm, composed, but truthful and not afraid of doing anything that might push her into a tirade.  I keep my distance because it is wise and prudent to do so, but I live my own life without fear.

And I want to be that way with anyone else.  The goal is to not have my life be different in relation to her at all (and I mean that *internally*... .of course I will make different decisions in dealing with her than I would others).  Period.  My goal is to be me and to stand tall, no matter what she or anybody throws at me.  And I know what you mean about your daughter.  I feel like an outsider in certain situations, too.  But screw em.  I am there for my kids, not them.  I'll be pleasant and like that sturdy oak, again, but its about my kids.  And at this point, for ever situation where I feel like an outsider, there are two situations where things are reversed:  people see what's going on and know I am a good dad who does anything for his kids, in the face of an unstable and immature mother who does whatever she wants.

[BrokenFamily]

I sent her a Rumi quote a few weeks ago, it had no effect.

'Beyond our ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing,there is a field. I'll meet you there. -Rumi

She thinks the replacement is all she has, her friends and family have abandoned her and she refuses to give me a chance despite I've always been there for her and done more for her than anyone ever.

It's a shame the replacement is kind of a nice guy (despite getting involved with a girl he knew was an emotional mess after a breakup) and he has a stable family unlike hers.

My prediction is she will move in with him and his family because hers is just too much of a mess for her to deal with.

She knows we were good together and I was always able to pull her out of her moods and we've both accomplished more together than apart but she's painted me so black to all her friends and family that she would look foolish coming back, and she's become so emotionally involved with the replacement that she can't just leave him even know it's mostly him keeping them together.