UBPDw's ultimatum: Chastise family or divorce

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey everyone, 

I need some advice quick. Here's the situation.  I've been married to my uBPDw for six years and we have two small kids together.  She's treated me horribly for the past year and not very well before that.  Lots of emotional abuse, manipulation, blaming, etc.  Anyway, I started confiding in my family about this last year and this has led to some "complications" between them and my family.  My mom grew distant towards my uBPDw and about six months ago mildly snapped at my uBPDw that I was "just being a good dad" when my uBPDw was telling me (in a slightly criticism way) not to do something with my son.  A few months later, my uBPDw finds out that my dad thinks we should divorce and that I should seek full custody because she had hit my older son.  Not long after that, I had to meet up with my uBPDw on the street.  My brother was there and she tells him to go away because she knew he thought I should divorce too.  When he doesn't leave she says she will call the cops and he says "go ahead."

Long story short is this: all of these things happened months ago but my wife still obsessed over them and accuses me of not standing up for her with them.  She says I let them come after her like a lack of "hyenas."  The truth is that my family is sick of her, but only because of how she has treated me.

Now she has given me an ultimatum:  I either have to write a joint email to each of my family members telling them that they crossed the line or she will divorce me.  I know if I did send such an email, it would be devastating for my parents and brother because they have done so much to support me in my difficult times.  They would think I was a "lost cause" and gone forever. 

I think my uBPDw's threat is outrageous and manipulative.  Has my family acted less than perfectly at times?  Of course, but they were always looking out for me.  And my wife has certainly treated me worse than they've treated her.

What do u all think?

[terranova79]

Hey everyone, 

I need some advice quick. Here's the situation.  I've been married to my uBPDw for six years and we have two small kids together.  She's treated me horribly for the past year and not very well before that.  Lots of emotional abuse, manipulation, blaming, etc.  Anyway, I started confiding in my family about this last year and this has led to some "complications" between them and my family.  My mom grew distant towards my uBPDw and about six months ago mildly snapped at my uBPDw that I was "just being a good dad" when my uBPDw was telling me (in a slightly criticism way) not to do something with my son.  A few months later, my uBPDw finds out that my dad thinks we should divorce and that I should seek full custody because she had hit my older son.  Not long after that, I had to meet up with my uBPDw on the street.  My brother was there and she tells him to go away because she knew he thought I should divorce too.  When he doesn't leave she says she will call the cops and he says "go ahead."

Long story short is this: all of these things happened months ago but my wife still obsessed over them and accuses me of not standing up for her with them.  She says I let them come after her like a lack of "hyenas."  The truth is that my family is sick of her, but only because of how she has treated me.

Now she has given me an ultimatum:  I either have to write a joint email to each of my family members telling them that they crossed the line or she will divorce me.  I know if I did send such an email, it would be devastating for my parents and brother because they have done so much to support me in my difficult times.  They would think I was a "lost cause" and gone forever. 

I think my uBPDw's threat is outrageous and manipulative.  Has my family acted less than perfectly at times?  Of course, but they were always looking out for me.  And my wife has certainly treated me worse than they've treated her.

What do u all think?

[nodiggity]

As my T always asks me.   How do you feel.

You letter focuses on the feelings of your partner and those of your family but not your feelings.

That said, ultimatums that involve isolation from your family when you are with a uBPD.     

[Mutt]

Now she has given me an ultimatum:  I either have to write a joint email to each of my family members telling them that they crossed the line or she will divorce me.

You could say ultimatum, I think FOG ( Fear, Obligation, Guilt ) or emotional blackmail is accurate.

Controlling Styles

Punishers – let us know exactly what they want, and the consequences we’ll face if we don’t give it to them. They may express themselves aggressively or they may smolder in silence, but either way, the anger is always aimed directly at us. The closer the relationship, the higher the stakes – and the more vulnerable we are to punishers.

SELF-AWARE:  What it means to be in the "FOG"

You also have a Karpman Drama Triangle.

Your family: Persecutors

You: Savior

Her: Victim

PERSPECTIVES: Conflict dynamics / Karpman Triangle

You're on the leaving board. She's threatening to file for divorce. Are you trying to work things out with uBPDw?

[downnout98]

My exBPD girlfriend drove a wedge between my family and I. She felt that they hated her, when really they just didn't trust her and we're watching out for me after all the things she did to me. They didn't even know the half of it. She would threaten me about choosing between her and my family. She would do the same with my daughter and my ex wife since we worked hard to be co parents. I almost lost lost everything the first time my ex BPD went crazy on me. This last time that she went crazy and told my daughter and I to not come back after we had a disagreement over disciplining my daughter. My family was there for me and supported me. I have stayed away from my exBPD since then. It has been hard but I knew that if I went back, I would lose everything and everybody this time. To include my daughter. I loved her and still do but I felt that if went back, I would loose everybody and then in a few months or years I would be back in this situation again but with no one to support me. It has been a hard decision. We were to be engaged. Already had the ring.

[peace_seeker]

Dear terranova79,

I’m sorry to hear about your situation. It is so much more complicated with kids involved!

But ultimately, you just have to do what you need to do. Will you be able to face yourself if you follow through her request? Will it really resolve the issue that exist between ur wife and ur family, or will it actually only make it worse?

Just to share my experience - my ex had a jealousy episode over my parents because he felt that I was spending too much time with them during the holiday sessions. I tried to explain that I was spending more time w them because my dad had a heart angioplasty surgery earlier on in the year and it just made me scared of losing my dad… and, out of anger, he told me that if my dad is to die it’s his fault – who asked him to continue smoking even after the surgery. I s*cked it in, giving benefit of doubt that they are just words of anger. Subsequently, he wanted me to moved out of my house to stay with him. Even though I managed to persuade him out of it, it already caused a lot of strain and resentment on both sides. During that period of time, I felt a lot of guilt towards my family for choosing to be with a guy who doesn’t respect them. And that pushes me to always wanting to spend more time with them, and causes more issues with my ex, and the circle goes on and on.

Ultimately, I broke up w my ex because he had a conflict with my brother and he threw me the ultimatum of severing ties with my brother or breaking up with him.

When I first shared my story here, people told me that it’s such a typical act of a BPD to make their partner choose b/w family or them. Seems like you are another victim.

My counsellor told me people like them are a bottomless pit. There is nothing that you can do that is  for them. You’ll break your own boundary thinking that you’ll only do it this once to prove ur love to them, and hopefully they can realize it and be all nice again. But to them, they’ll just keep taking (since they really do not know how to respect other’s boundary) and keep pushing u again and again.


Choose wisely my friend.  

[Mutt]

When I first shared my story here, people told me that it’s such a typical act of a BPD to make their partner choose b/w family or them. Seems like you are another victim.

Terranova79,

Move yourself to the center of either polarized sides. The center of the drama triangle contains components of all sides.

• Move into the center. Resist the temptation to play an exaggerated and complementary role to a Victim, Rescuer or Persecutor. You do not want to stabilize an unpleasant situation. Instead, find and hold the center position, thereby marginalizing your adversary and eliminating their power base. The center of the drama triangle contains elements of each corner. It is a combination of sensitivity, compassion, and responsibility.

• Refuse to accept your opponent’s force. Do not struggle with them, or yield to them; instead, allow your opponent to move into an indefensible position.

   

If you have successfully taken the center, your adversary will halt their attacks, rather than risk unmasking themselves and exposing the game.

In the style of Eastern Philosophy, you don't want to cast a loved one as your opponent; rather, take their bad habits and unskillful means as your enemy, and destroy them with your awareness and enlightened skills.

Skippy

(For a fuller discussion of the triangle, see "The Three Faces of Victim" at

The Three Faces of Victim - Lynne Forrest

[OnceConfused]

Terranova:

Your family has done just like you had thought they would. You came to them to confide , which they jumped in to be on YOUR SIDE. You cannot now tell them that they had crossed the line. I would consider "crossing the line" when they did not say something truthful. Sounds like in this case, all your family were truthful about their feeling after hearing how you had been treated by your wife.

It sounds like to me that your wife probably will divorce you or you will divorce her sooner or later, with or without your family's intervention.

From my experience w BPD, I can guess even after you denounce your family, your relationship with your wife will continue the same way - abuse, silent treatments, rages ... .

[Suzn]

Everyone in this situation is acting as though they are being attacked. You, your wife and your family. Your family is acting on things you shared instead of being supportive of you and your decisions. I know they care about you but they have jumped into your business.

After reading some of your past posts it's doubtful she'll file since she doesn't want to go back to work. I could be wrong of course.

What do YOU want to do? We will support you on whatever you decide.

[Turkish]

terranova,

It's hard to be triangulated in such a way, especially when family members are involved. Your family members sound upset (to say the least), witnessing her behaviors. You know what they want you to do, they've made it clear. You also know what your wife wants you to do, as she's made that clear.

Similar to what nodiggity said, what do you want to do? It must feel like your're torn between loyalties, and that's a huge amount of stress. I'm not telling you to take either side over the other, but you're married to your wife, not your family. While it's unfortunate that she learned of their feelings, telling you to divorce seems very controlling, and I'd offer that it is invalidating (nevermind your wife's invalidation).  

Getting into legal issues like divorce and custody are huge, and despite whatever support your family may provide, these are burdens which will be on you. We had a member here who called CPS on his wife when she was hitting the kids, and he was the one who ended up getting removed from the home temporarily instead of her.

These are not issues to be taken lightly. Similarly to what you've been advised, I was told that I should have filed for majority custody. Legal issues are not to be taken lightly, and both research on realistic outcomes as well as legal advice are paramount over advice from otherwise well-meaning family or friends. This is your family (wife and sons), not someone else's.

This is very early, and perhaps you're unsure of what to do. If I say nothing else, I'll say play the long game (wisely, no rash decisions, and consult with professionals if you must), then trust your gut, wisemind.

Turkish

[peace_seeker]

When I first shared my story here, people told me that it’s such a typical act of a BPD to make their partner choose b/w family or them. Seems like you are another victim.

Terranova79,

Move yourself to the center of either polarized sides. The center of the drama triangle contains components of all sides.

• Move into the center. Resist the temptation to play an exaggerated and complementary role to a Victim, Rescuer or Persecutor. You do not want to stabilize an unpleasant situation. Instead, find and hold the center position, thereby marginalizing your adversary and eliminating their power base. The center of the drama triangle contains elements of each corner. It is a combination of sensitivity, compassion, and responsibility.

• Refuse to accept your opponent’s force. Do not struggle with them, or yield to them; instead, allow your opponent to move into an indefensible position.

   

If you have successfully taken the center, your adversary will halt their attacks, rather than risk unmasking themselves and exposing the game.

In the style of Eastern Philosophy, you don't want to cast a loved one as your opponent; rather, take their bad habits and unskillful means as your enemy, and destroy them with your awareness and enlightened skills.

Skippy

(For a fuller discussion of the triangle, see "The Three Faces of Victim" at

The Three Faces of Victim - Lynne Forrest

Hi mutt,

Thanks for sharing this again! It’s the first time I’ve come across this article and it is quite enlightening!

It is always way to easy to fall into the victim mentality (am guilty of it) and I think this a timely reminder that we need to own some of our role that contributed to the breakdown of the r/s.

[going places]

Scripture says that a man is to leave and cleave.

Meaning when he takes a wife, he is no longer under the authority of his mother and father; that he himself becomes 'the head' of his family, and the leader.

Once the man, takes on that headship role, he has certain obligations to his wife.

(Ephesians 5:25-33) BUT he is definitely the head, leader of his household.

Problems arise when the 'wife' still 'answers' to her parents and the husband still 'answers' to his parents.

BIG problems arise when one spouse feels 'ganged up on' by the extended family.

If your wife has been officially diagnosed with BPD then you two should really spend all of the effort focusing on how the two of you are going to stay healthy and cohesive for the family (and set good examples for the young children watching everyone's every move and word). As the husband and head of the house hold, this is your responsibility.

She needs to spend time with her T working on tools to manage her BPD and talk to him about how she is feeling now that your family knows intimate details of the marriage. You two will have to work on building / regaining trust.

The ultimatum that she gave you was because she feels like you have betrayed her.

You shared things with your family that should have never been shared. A trust bond has been broken.

She is telling you "I need to know that I am #1 in your life; that I am your partner, helper, wife, and I am under your protection and we are a team, Biblically, we are now one... ."

IF she is officially diagnosed with BPD then maybe this is just a game; part of the disorder.

If that is the case, then let her file and you need to get full custody of the children and give them a stable and healthy home/environment to grow up in. That last thing you want to for the children to suffer.

[Ripped Heart]

Terranova79,

Being isolated from family or attempted isolation through emotional blackmail is an extremely difficult position to find yourself in and it must be really difficult for you right now. I agree with some of the comments on here about that this may because she feels threatened or something has triggered her insecurities.

I went through a very similar situation with my exN/BPDw because she was convinced my family were going to take me away from her. That was in part because they saw through her manipulation. She tried to control them and failed, it ended up exposing her for who she was and forcing her to drop her mask with them. When she realised, her attempts were to try and isolate me so I didn't find out. The main reason given was exactly the same as yours, she accused me of not standing up for her and I did when I felt people were being a little too harsh on her but as an adult, that was also her issue to address.

What I ended up doing in that situation was acknowledging how my family made her feel and I did speak to them about the situation and how she was feeling but refused to bend to the ultimatum. Instead, a boundary was put in place in that she wanted nothing to do with my family and I respected her decision and asked her to respect mine in that it was my family and that I was not going to cut ties. What I did do was ask my family not to discuss anything to do with my marriage with me or my exN/BPDw, which they did respect. Likewise, I also set a boundary with my exN/NPDw that I would not discuss my family or their business with her.

ExN/BPDw was happy with the resolution but only for about the first month, I noticed she started listening in to phone calls, wanted access to my emails to see what my family had to say. She got more frustrated at being kept out of the loop and tested the boundaries. I think it's because it played on her abandonment fears in that my family had no issues with respecting her choice to cut all ties and then she wanted back in. Even now, 3 years on, she still tires to reach out to my family because to her it was multiple abandonment even though she was the one who instigated it.

I think whichever way you go, it is going to lead to problems. I really wouldn't like to see you isolate yourself from your family only to continue to get further unrealistic demands. The other worry I have is that if you did go to those lengths, how many times you would hear your wife make further demands about other things under the threat of divorce. You have an opportunity here to lay down a boundary but also be mindful of how your wife is feeling. Compromise can be quite difficult to navigate. Perhaps you can navigate around asking your family not to discuss things within your relationship and try keep things on a neutral footing. The most important thing here is that you have to do what you feel is right and not give in to emotional blackmail or unreasonable demands if you do not feel comfortable with them.

Your family are concerned and their concerns are equally as valid and given what your wife has learned, it is going to play on her abandonment fears. Those are her fears and not yours, you can be supportive of her feelings but it's a fine line between being supportive and doing as demanded. You mentioned about your dad feeling you should divorce her given that she has been physical towards your son. Instead of her taking responsibility for her actions, she is projecting that at you and demanding you isolate yourself from your family because your dad's reaction is perfectly reasonable and justified. Did she ever take responsibility for her part in that? It just sounds like she is expecting you to take responsibility for her actions because of the way it makes her feel as someone is not happy with her actions. That's her responsibility, not yours.

You just have to be very careful you don't put yourself right in the middle of the battle between your wife and your family because that's not for you to be in the middle of it and from experience, it's a very uncomfortable place to find yourself being pulled in both directions. That's why I enforced a boundary of keeping both relationships but not being put in the middle of anything between both of them. Very difficult to maintain if your wife wants to test that boundary but it is possible.

[terranova79]

Thanks for your replies.  I told my wife that I would not send those emails to my family.  Ultimately, it would only alienate my family from me without improving much of anything between my wife and me.  In fact it could make it worse if they didn't apologize in response.  It's not clear whether my wife intends to follow through on her threat.

Ultimately, I do feel very bad that my wife feels ganged up on.  At the same time, my wife was treating me very badly for quite a while and I didn't feel like I had anyone else to turn to but my family.  It's a real dilemma.  My wife is furious and feels betrayed because I confided in them, but her behavior towards me was so bad I didn't know who else to turn to.  I never told my family anything but the truth and I certainly didn't tell them everything.

Ugh.  I feel so guilty but am not sure how much of that is just the result of my wife telling me nearly every day for months that my family is "horrible," "awful," and a "pack of hyenas."

[Suzn]

Question... why are you posting on the leaving board? Right now you are still together and the tools and lessons on the staying board can be helpful for your present situation.

And have you considered working with a T of your own to help you through all if this?

[propunchingbag]

Hey everyone, 

I need some advice quick. Here's the situation.  I've been married to my uBPDw for six years and we have two small kids together.  She's treated me horribly for the past year and not very well before that.  Lots of emotional abuse, manipulation, blaming, etc.  Anyway, I started confiding in my family about this last year and this has led to some "complications" between them and my family.  My mom grew distant towards my uBPDw and about six months ago mildly snapped at my uBPDw that I was "just being a good dad" when my uBPDw was telling me (in a slightly criticism way) not to do something with my son.  A few months later, my uBPDw finds out that my dad thinks we should divorce and that I should seek full custody because she had hit my older son.  Not long after that, I had to meet up with my uBPDw on the street.  My brother was there and she tells him to go away because she knew he thought I should divorce too.  When he doesn't leave she says she will call the cops and he says "go ahead."

Long story short is this: all of these things happened months ago but my wife still obsessed over them and accuses me of not standing up for her with them.  She says I let them come after her like a lack of "hyenas."  The truth is that my family is sick of her, but only because of how she has treated me.

Now she has given me an ultimatum:  I either have to write a joint email to each of my family members telling them that they crossed the line or she will divorce me.  I know if I did send such an email, it would be devastating for my parents and brother because they have done so much to support me in my difficult times.  They would think I was a "lost cause" and gone forever. 

I think my uBPDw's threat is outrageous and manipulative.  Has my family acted less than perfectly at times?  Of course, but they were always looking out for me.  And my wife has certainly treated me worse than they've treated her.

What do u all think?

What I have learned from the past 6 years is this:

My wife is Undiagnosed BPD. I tried going to my friends and family to ask how to proceed with my wife because I was confused about her behavior. I told them all about how she treated me and some of the things she said and did. All this did was isolate me further from friends and family. They did not want to be around her because they were mad at her for treating me poorly. This meant that I was not being invited to ANY events that friends had, my family would put up with it at functions. Basically they all want me to leave her and soon I will. Get out ASAP. Thats my advice.

[goateeki]

My advice is to be grateful that you have been given the opportunity to divorce her, and then divorce her.

Dude, there is no way this relationship is going to get better.  You do not deserve to be in the situation you're in.  You shouldn't have to contend with this stuff, ever.  This is just plain nuts.  Maybe also engage in a bit of introspection and ask yourself why you think you should do anything BUT divorce. 

I know how strident I sound, but I remained in a marriage to a woman who has layers and layers of emotional and character issues.  We have two children together, and they are relatively young -- 10 and 7.  I realized the situation I was in and I divorced her.  I have not been this happy since I was 20 years old, and this happiness I feel amidst all the tumult of divorce and resettlement. 

I am telling you, consider seriously the implications of remaining in this marriage.  There are thousands upon thousands of normally functioning, pretty women who are capable of loving you and wanting you in their lives.

I see that a lot of people are providing responses that suggest that you "manage" the relationship.  Why on earth would you want to manage an intimate relationship?  I don't think that you can simultaneously be in an intimate relationship and a fencing match with the same person.  Don't manage it.  End it. Then find a relationship that you don't have to work so hard at.   

[Targeted]

I had the exact same situation with my ex gf! Here is my two cents on the situation! She Always cited that whole a Man should leave his family and cleave to his wife thing, also always said that I should stick up for her and always defend her and be on her side if I really loved her, in theory I believe in all of this, The problem is she does not seem to think she has a important role in the relationship as well, not to mention That she seems to think so narrowmindedly that she can cling on to the cleaving to your wife scripture as it suits her but at the same time throw out the honour thy mother and father commandment. If She is going to use religion that sincerely in a relationship then she should adhere to it all, how could casting out someone's mother and father be considered honouring them? Live under your own rule? Yes! Honour thy mother and father? Yes as well! I agree that as the man  in the relationship it is my duty to protect and defend my wife, but I also believe it is my wife's job to not give me so much ridiculousness and Poor behaviour to defend so that I have something good to cleave to! To defend your wife should not mean that you have to defend cheating, you should not have to defend abusive behaviours, you should not have to defend lying, you should not have to defend abusing the children,  and so on! You defend her honour when somebody attacks her honour, you do not have to defend her attacking you! And wiho better than family to support you while you are being attacked?  if your family is like Mine, then she wants to isolate you from the very people that would support that relationship she chose to get help for her abusive behaviour, I was told towards the end that if I wanted to continue this relationship I would have to divorce my whole family and all my friends, I did not find it feasible to give up so many people who treat me with love and respect for one person that does not! It's amazing how they will even manipulate the Bible to suit their own needs. In my opinion this is nothing more than entitlement next with abandonment fears, -- I am entitled to have you put up with my bad behaviour and love me but I know that is not right and these people will make you see that too so get rid of them so I can keep what I am entitled to, unconditional love in the midst of my poor behaviours!  All of that is just my opinion though.