Blame

[Beach_Babe]

Did he ever love me? Maybe he did and I just screwed everything up. How do I forgive myself for everything I did to contribute to this?

[Mister Brightside]

Did he ever love me? Maybe he did and I just screwed everything up. How do I forgive myself for everything I did to contribute to this?

Beach Babe, I am not an expert on the matter, but from what I've read about psychopaths/sociopaths/narcissists/borderlines, it seems as if borderlines in particular believed themselves when they were idealizing us. It really depends on the person and which personality disorder dominates their brains, but for a strict borderline, I don't think they necessarily try to trick someone with the idealization stage. I think they were fully invested themselves. They think in black and white, and at the moment, we were strictly white and could do no wrong.

Of course, sociopaths (not talking about borderlines here) can deliberately idealize someone and know what they're doing is pure evil. Personally, I think the person I was involved with also suffers from NPD, so I really have no idea what was going through her mind in the idealization stage (whether she believed what she was saying or not). But I know how horribly she treated me in the devaluation and discard stage, so it's essentially irrelevant.

I can say that no matter how much blame you are placing on yourself, there's nothing you could have done to make the relationship work. You could have done everything absolutely perfect, and it still wouldn't be enough for a person with no sense of self (a borderline). You can never give enough to them. They will always feel like abandonment is imminent. And then there's the engulfment fears they have, and if they feel like you are secured in their grasp, they will get bored of the situation, take you for granted, and figure they can come back to you when they're done getting acceptance elsewhere. The BPD I was involved with apparently told someone that she didn't think I'd ever leave her. That hurt to hear that my loyalty was being used against me. There really is no way to win with them. Maybe you made some mistakes, but take pride in the fact that you can take responsibility (maybe too much actually) for anything you did wrong.

[fromheeltoheal]

Did he ever love me? Maybe he did and I just screwed everything up. How do I forgive myself for everything I did to contribute to this?

Hey BB-

I don't know about your ex, but borderlines in general love very deeply, just like all their emotions, problem is the disorder makes it unsustainable.  Also, borderlines can exhibit very low emotional maturity since the disorder disrupts the normal maturation process.  So what is 'love' may be closer to fantasy and need-driven.  You know him, so see if any of that fits.

The important thing for you now is to see things the way they are, but not worse than they are, honestly.  And if you're like most of us you did some things in the relationship you wouldn't normally do, because you were under stress, the walking on eggshells metaphor, a natural response to interaction with mental illness.  So cut yourself some slack for that, we all do the best we can given the circumstances, and the way you forgive yourself might be to accept the relationship as a learning experience, learn the lessons, do the work, vow to never make those mistakes again, and move forward.  And as you shift the focus from him to you, which you're already doing, and from the past to the future, taking one step at a time, you will find a way to live that forgiveness as you build your future. 

The guilt and self-blame has been a recurring theme for you; what are the things you did that you think contributed?

[dobie]

Mr bright side : doesent that contradict the abdonment fear if they are secure enough to think you will never leave ?

[Infared]

I think they one very important thing that I do have to forgive myself for was making the choice to get involved with this person in a love relationship in the first place. I ignored a lot of   's and just dove in. That really came back to haunt me in a very brutal way... .as I believe that no matter what I did in the relationship the outcome would have been similar because I was dealing with a disordered, damaged person. I needed to put the club away and stop beating myself up... .not for what the BPD was blaming me for and rewriting history and such. I need to totally disregard that devaluation nonsense. That is all their selfish fantasy to make their horrible behavior right... .

... but I think that I do need to pay attention to my initial mistake of engaging in a love relationship with this person in the first place. If I looked closely... .I was doomed from day one.

The posts on this page from everyone are very enlightening and spot-on with many of the things that I experienced in the my attempt at a normal relationship with someone who I believe was traumatized at a young age and will suffer with the effects of that for the rest of their life. In the end what happened wasn't anyone's fault... it was all just human frailty.

[Beach_Babe]

if they feel like you are secured in their grasp, they will get bored of the situation, take you for granted, and figure they can come back to you when they're done getting acceptance elsewhere.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. I was a last resort. A backup to a backup to a backup.

The guilt and self-blame has been a recurring theme for you; what are the things you did that you think contributed?

1. Lost my temper at times and said hurtful things I did not mean.

2. Called and texted him from fake numbers when I had a plane ticket to come and he had blocked my real ones and was not responding

3. Pertaining to #2, after he called screaming vile hateful things to me on more than one occasion merely for asking for a phone call (one instance for example was after I had a seizure and was asking for a call for comfort) I changed the number and did not give him the new one, just used the fake number. He did not ever call me so didn't know the difference until mutual friend told him  weeks ago. He was very hurt. Said that was another betrayal. The minute he got the real number however, it was blocked IMMEDIATELY.

4. Engaged in the blocking game right along with him on Facebook at times he would engage in hurtful behavior

5. Betrayed his trust by talking to mutual friend, who then turned around and spread lies that weren't even true but that ex believes. It was still  my fault, ultimately, because had I not gone to mutual friend in first place it wouldn't have happened.

6. Did not show up 6 times to see him Even though he blocked me the week before was mean, hostile and treated me like a nuisance and bother, was going to make me pay for everything and refused to bend or make the slightest accommodation in consideration of my health or comfort (ie: bringing a car to airport to get me in freezing weather so I would not get sick before my upcoming heart surgery) Still he says I did not show up and ultimately the cancellation was mine. Now he said he will NEVER see or talk to me ever again "because you pick fights"  that my behavior blew it. I cry every day over this. I never showed up he is right. And it haunts me.

7.

I think they one very important thing that I do have to forgive myself for was making the choice to get involved with this person in a love relationship in the first place. .

I agree, but the reason I am having such a hard time letting go is because of my OWN contribution to the demise of the relationship. The BPD did awful things, but frankly at points so did I. Maybe I am a loser just like they say... .crazy sick and this is the outcome I deserve. Maybe after 14 years my behavior and hurtfulness really did push them away.

I cant forgive MYSELF. If my hands were totally clean in all this, then I could probably just say "ok you are an a$$h*le whatever"  but they weren't. I pushed him to his limit and he left for good. He wont forgive me or allow us to remain friends not even will be exchange an email every once in an while anymore. he is gone for good. I did it, and feel like I no longer want to wake up anymore from the shame (don't worry I have an apt with the doctor for medication next week and a therapist I see once a week). The pain is so unbearable.

Why did I deserve this kind of ending?  I loved him so much.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Beach-

Well, sounds to me like the wheels had completely come off that relationship and the two of you were triggering to each other.  :)rama, drama, drama.  As I said before, it's important to own your side of things, and if you think apologizing to him for YOUR benefit is a good idea, whether you get a response or acknowledgment or not, so you can let it go, then do that.  And then, use the pain of the guilt to commit to yourself that you will never, ever, get in a situation like that again.  You might try looking into attachment theory, the way we emotionally attach to other people; one way, when we are experiencing emotions that don't feel good, is to use what's called 'protest behavior', dysfunctional ways of expressing our needs, and if we do that with people who have incompatible attachment styles, it does nothing but create a cycle of painful drama.  You probably noticed.  So the key is to find out what your style is, who's incompatible with that, how you can get your needs met more functionally, and fill your life up with people who can meet them that way.

But first, what are you going to do to alleviate this ongoing guilt?

[LeonVa]

Don't beat yourself up beach babe.  There is NOTHING you can do for him to improve the relationship.

They are NEVER satisfied.  You might think if you did this and done that, the outcome would've been different, but it's not. I've been there, I've tried and tried and tried, again and again and again, I think I'm almost to the level of a saint, and that's still not enough.

I truly believes if Jesus himself met with such a situation, he will give up and say "Buddha, help me!". (Excuses me to those who are religious, I don't mean to offend).

[zundertowz]

I feel similar to Beachbabe... .My Ex was completely nuts but I have a bit of anxiety to begin with so her episodes made me snap a few times.   Never physical but defiantly verbal... .shell have no problem remember some nasty things I said to her.  I fought fire with fire at times... .Ill always regret the way I acted but most of the things I said were true.  I will have to live with my behavior but Im human and when your being abused sometimes you fight back.

[Beach_Babe]

After he refused to bring a car to pick me up in subzero weather (after promising for weeks) and had blocked and ignored me during his trip to Miami the entire week before (except for one calls to scream) I stopped talking to him for 3 weeks. It was the 6th time he made it difficult to come I was just so upset. I hurt him. I can't take it. The guilt the pain. It is my fault. I will never see him again. I don't want to be alive. Please someone tell me how to fix it. I feel so much pain. He won't forgive me and thinks I am evil.

[Beach_Babe]

How do I fix myself?  I'm ashamed at my behavior. My father was NPD, so I really think I have some issues.

[fromheeltoheal]

After he refused to bring a car to pick me up in subzero weather (after promising for weeks) and had blocked and ignored me during his trip to Miami the entire week before (except for one calls to scream) I stopped talking to him for 3 weeks. It was the 6th time he made it difficult to come I was just so upset. I hurt him. I can't take it. The guilt the pain. It is my fault. I will never see him again. I don't want to be alive. Please someone tell me how to fix it. I feel so much pain. He won't forgive me and thinks I am evil.

Blowing off a long-standing commitment, ignoring you, screaming at you, 6th time he made it difficult to come and you stopped talking to him for 3 weeks, when you could have stopped talking to him forever.  And then on top of it you blame yourself.  Work to do there Beach Babe.

How do I fix myself?  I'm ashamed at my behavior. My father was NPD, so I really think I have some issues. 

There you go, shifting the focus to you, that's progress.  "Fixing" yourself implies you're broken though, nobody's broken, pain is just an opportunity to dig deep and see where we have places to grow.  Take care of you!

[leftconfused]

Beach babe you have to realize that nothing you did or could have done would have changed anything. I know exactly how you are feeling. I've been through the same. You WILL get through this! We all will. And go on to be stronger individuals for it. This is NOT your fault! No one could act perfect in an abusive relationship! In fact you should commend yourself for not being tolerant! Hugs!

[Beach_Babe]

Fromheeltoheel: how long did it take you to stop blaming yourself? I've already sent numerous emails and texted apologies but all I got was either no response or a nasty one. He won't forgive me says it's not forgivable.  What can I do? He says I just have to live with what I've done. Forever. What gets me the most, though, is he does not feel he has wronged me in any way or done anything wrong. How can they be so blind to this when my own misdeeds hit me daily in the face?

Leftconfused: thank you for your kind words. It's good to know I am not alone. What's your story? How long have you been NC?

[Ex_CB_Partner]

After he refused to bring a car to pick me up in subzero weather (after promising for weeks) and had blocked and ignored me during his trip to Miami the entire week before (except for one calls to scream) I stopped talking to him for 3 weeks. It was the 6th time he made it difficult to come I was just so upset. I hurt him. I can't take it. The guilt the pain. It is my fault. I will never see him again. I don't want to be alive. Please someone tell me how to fix it. I feel so much pain. He won't forgive me and thinks I am evil.

Hey Beach_Babe, you were in a situation of distress and therefore you reacted strongly. It doesn´t mean that it was wrong. We all know how it feels when the stress and the pressure that come with that sort of relationship are not bearable anymore. We all said and did things we regretted afterwards but actually there is nothing to regret. Try to calm down first. Get some distance. That is a long process with ups and downs, but at the end you´ll realize that there is nothing he could forgive you as you didn´t do anything wrong. You reacted like every normal human being would at some point under the circumstances of a relationship with somebody who drags you into the confusing world of his disorder.

[Beach_Babe]

Where's my apology?

[Infared]

Where's my apology?

In my experience, you will be waiting a long, long time for an apology from a person with BPD. History is rewritten. Mine did nothing wrong. Apparently ever? What would there be to apologize for if this is your way of thinking? I was blamed for everything... .very, very child-like thinking... .which to a degree I believe that they hide behind and they know exactly what they are doing. Mine was very crafty and not a stupid person.

I will not get an apology for anything... .and at this point in time it would truly have no meaning to me... .

I think you are torturing yourself to have the expectation that this would happen. Aren't you?

[Ex_CB_Partner]

Where's my apology?

In my own story there was never an apology. No matter if it was for the everyday vulgarities or for the worst cruelties. I don´t expect any (genuine ones) to come anymore. Maybe for manipulation purposes.

I recommend you to stop waiting for it. You could expect it in an interaction with healthy human beings, but here you are just torturing yourself with demanding it (internally). For me the key was to accept that nothing I have ever learned about normal relationships is applicable when you´re dealing with a disordered person.

Try to focus on yourself. You´ll be rewarded with coming out of the mess as a stronger person than you have ever been.

[fromheeltoheal]

Fromheeltoheel: how long did it take you to stop blaming yourself?

Hey BB-

I stopped blaming myself when I was still in the relationship.  She started blaming me for everything, as will happen in the devaluation stage with a borderline, and I bought into it for a while, trying to make things better, trying to get back to the bliss we had in the beginning.  But after a while it became clear that I was going to be a dumping ground for all the sht she didn't want to feel or own up to, and that got pretty old, plus what she was blaming me for got progressively more ridiculous; somehow I was responsible for making her period start two days early.  Sure babe.

So it was a pretty sober analysis after I left her, looking at what I had done wrong, I wasn't perfect by any stretch, then again perfection was not the goal, being real was, and we were all in very stressful situations, trying to interrelate with the crazymaking behavior of mental illness, but in the end I was a guy trying to have a good relationship with a pretty girl.  And I can't blame myself for what I didn't know at the time; the lights came on much later about how I'd gotten so far down the wrong path.  So I decided to believe that things happen for us, not to us, and started asking how can I use this to grow?

I've already sent numerous emails and texted apologies but all I got was either no response or a nasty one. He won't forgive me says it's not forgivable.  What can I do? [/color]

What you can do is change what has to happen in order for you to apologize and move on.  If you felt you needed to apologize for something and you did, you could then just let it go, you did your part.  But what you're doing is believing that the apology doesn't really count because he hasn't acknowledged or accepted it, which is you making how you feel dependent on his actions, it's giving your power away.  What if it didn't matter what he thinks, because you kept your side of the street clean?  Try that mindset on just for a minute, see how it feels.  You are in control of how you feel.

He says I just have to live with what I've done. Forever.

That sounds a little sadistic, but you get to decide what you live with, as you take you power back.

What gets me the most, though, is he does not feel he has wronged me in any way or done anything wrong. How can they be so blind to this when my own misdeeds hit me daily in the face?

It's voluntary blindness used as a defense mechanism.  Think about it: if something happens that we feel badly about or responsible for, we can either feel guilty and own it, or we can reframe it, warp reality as much as we need to, so whatever happened, happened in such a way that we are the victim and not responsible for anything.  We all do that to some extent, but for someone who has intense emotions they can't deal with any other way, it has to be absolute.  Such is the benefit of mental illness, but you and I do not want to go there full time, better to feel our emotions all the way to the other side; the only way out is through.  Take care of you!

[Mutt]

Where's my apology?

Hi Beach_Babe,

His mental illness is not your fault. You didn't cause it.

A pwBPD have dichotomous thinking and see the world and themselves as all good or all bad. He projects negative feelings he has of himself on others and also blames others for his negative actions. He needs someone to emotionally merge with to take on these negative feelings. It's a defense mechanism to cope with anxiety and stress.

An apology in the conventional sense is not likely going to happen and being split black can also be viewed as you meant something to that disordered person.

[leftconfused]

He says I just have to live with what I've done. Forever.

That sounds a little sadistic, but you get to decide what you live with, as you take you power back.

^^Yes exactly!  When I read that, that is exactly what I thought too.  My ex is extremely sadistic, he loves to hurt me and that is all yours is doing too.  Trying to hurt you.  Don't let him!  How is what you did unforgivable?  That is not normal behaviour and you are  not responsible for it!

[DyingLove]

After he refused to bring a car to pick me up in subzero weather (after promising for weeks) and had blocked and ignored me during his trip to Miami the entire week before (except for one calls to scream) I stopped talking to him for 3 weeks. It was the 6th time he made it difficult to come I was just so upset. I hurt him. I can't take it. The guilt the pain. It is my fault. I will never see him again. I don't want to be alive. Please someone tell me how to fix it. I feel so much pain. He won't forgive me and thinks I am evil.

This is funny in relation to my situation with the ex.

For the entire duration I was with her, I didn't have a vehicle. She had, what I like to refer to as a Sh** Box. A 2000 malibu, looked like the platform on a NYC train station (which the train station is probably cleaner)

But she would ALWAYS tell me to take the car if I needed it, I could drive her to work and use the car as I desired.  After the breakup, I asked her to take me to the store,, And she told me that I could take the bus!  What a MF'er!  Horrible Horrible Woman.  Funny, because I was supposed to change the oil on the same day we broke up, Feb 7th.  I was NOT about to do anything further for her or her car... .and to the best of my knowledge, the oil was still not changed up to the day I left... .March 19.

In fact, I took the 5 quarts of oil with me back to NY (I had the oil change stuff all ready) and returned the oil to Walmart.

During Jan I did lots of work on the car... .she had no problems with me saving upwards of 500 in labor.  Makes me angry all over again!

[Beach_Babe]

Infared: you are correct I will never get an apology. In his mind he did nothing wrong. How long did it take you to let go of that hope?

Ex cb:  what kind of cruelties?

fromheeltoheel: Its hard to feel at peace when he keeps smearing me. I apologized many times though. He feels I am not worthy of one back.

Mutt: why would he have such negative feelings now though? I left without a fight as he wanted, and he has a great new job and life now. Why does he still have to be so nasty?

leftconfused:  do you really think he enjoys hurting me? How so? Doesn't that mean in a sense that he still cares?

dyinglove: thats so awful how she took advantage of you. I bet that felt good to return that oil. Atta boy way to take your power back. I hope one day I get there too.

[Infared]

Infared: you are correct I will never get an apology. In his mind he did nothing wrong. How long did it take you to let go of that hope?

BB... . that's the thing with these relationships... .after the mirroring and the bonding it is so difficult for me to comprehend the painting black and the abuse. I do not know if deep down my psyche will ever give up hope for some kind of apology.  I have to think it all through and not take on the shame and the lies that the pwBPD tried to lay on me. This was NOT my fault, even though their childish emotional state allows them to blame me for all their indiscretions. That is not adult behavior. That is their illness. That is who they are.  I cannot expect a normal, reasonable, balanced individual that will own their part in the relationship.

I had to ACCEPT this and with that information make healthy decisions and take actions that took care of me in the present moment for what was actually going on, not what I wished was going on.  It's disappointing... . but it is what it is. I can choose to save me and not be part of their chaos and lies. It's a process. You can do it, too. Just love you. They are not. 

[leftconfused]

leftconfused:  do you really think he enjoys hurting me? How so? Doesn't that mean in a sense that he still cares?

BB- I wish I knew for sure.  I would love to say that they don't actually enjoy it but I believe mine actually does.  If you feel someone hurt you knee jerk reaction is to hurt them back.  However for the BPDs even something "perceived" as a hurt will cause them to react intensely.  I do think that he still cares, I don't think you would get such a reaction from someone if they didn't care.  Don't focus on that though.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter if they care or don't care, this is simply not a good or healthy situation to be in.  I can promise you that if you got back together it would continue to get worse and I don't think you really want to live like that.  If you do you need to look inside yourself and ask why?  You have to know that you deserves someone who will love and respect you in a healthy way.  Not devalue and discard you all the while being mean and nasty.  Also, I don't know about yours but mine never let anything go and it got to the point where every argument would turn into "kitchen sinking"  Basically throwing anything and everything at me that he thought I did wrong.  NOT FUN.  There is no defending or explaining yourself.  I found it never mattered what I said, he was stuck with his belief and that wasn't going to change. 

[raisins3142]

After he refused to bring a car to pick me up in subzero weather (after promising for weeks) and had blocked and ignored me during his trip to Miami the entire week before (except for one calls to scream) I stopped talking to him for 3 weeks. It was the 6th time he made it difficult to come I was just so upset. I hurt him. I can't take it. The guilt the pain. It is my fault. I will never see him again. I don't want to be alive. Please someone tell me how to fix it. I feel so much pain. He won't forgive me and thinks I am evil.

You are more than this relationship.  You are more than his opinion of you.

If you make your future happiness predicated on him forgiving you, then you are giving him so much power over you.  Maybe that should anger you and make you want to break away.

When you are feeling like this, perhaps do something to distract yourself that is healthy.  Even if it feels empty or fake, do it anyway.  Eventually your thoughts and emotions will follow.  You need to forgive yourself and move on from this.  It might take time, but I believe you will do that when you are ready.

[raisins3142]

Where's my apology?

Mine apologized a few times, but they were half-hearted, nonapologies that made me feel worse.  I posted a few here.

If you want a nondisordered apology, then you might not get that.

You might be doing what I did during the r/s and after the b/u for a time: I tried to make sense of my ex's actions and feelings based upon how I view things.  It never made sense or made me feel awful because I just inherently can't understand.  I can in a clinical way by knowing the disorder, but not in a way where I can identify.

So, if you would apologize if you were him, then that doesn't mean much because he is so different.

Don't predicate your future happiness on getting an apology.  It might not happen.