Stay or go?

[Thread]

We met with pwBPD therapist today.  I wasn't able to ask about the borderline thing, like if he was trained for it. We don't meet separately we meet together and its hard for me to label him like that in front of him or other people. I guess I could email him about it.

Initially he asked how the week went. BPD said "not good" and I just shook my head. I then began to describe the last night situation about the budgeting. BPD having freaked out the week before about me wanting to go have soup at our favorite restaurant. At the end I said, I'm just really tired of not being able to have a normal conversation with BPD especially conversations that need to be had. - and then I started crying. That lasted a hot minute.

The therapist then explained to me why he wanted me at the session.  He said that Bpd's description of the week was completely opposite my view of the week and the situations that occurred. I then said I know. I said that my last two therapists faced the same issues and that often I would join in either on his sessions or he in my own. That that difference between our stories was pretty much always the case.

Then I clarified the situation of eating out, and I said "in no way am I playing a game of tit for tat, but I just would like the same respect I give BPD when he goes to do things, not ending up being miserable for wanting to go eat or feeling guilty the whole time Bpd complains." I then explained the thing My therapist helped me to conclude that I feel like I don't have the liberty to want to do things or make decisions that are different than BPD's expectations or control.

This then led into me being back on my meds. I told the Dr. that I don't attribute my anxiety and depression to BPD, but that his back and forth emotions, and the rages are putting me under a great deal of stress, and how its difficult to tell what is going to set them off.  He asked me what it looks like when Bpd has an outburst.  I told him it may be a scrubbing of a dish leading to "I'm going to kill myself" or a conversation about finances which make him stare off in a trance, then not speaking to me for the remainder of the evening, as I just wait and question if there will be a blow up, thus the anxiety begins to be present.

It ended up that Bpd said he didn't feel like I trusted him with the finances and was angry I spoke to 'everyone else' about this before him.  I told him it was my friend who told me about mint a year and a half ago, and that my therapist only just concurred that was a good app. I also said I spoke with my therapist that's what we do, we talk about things.

The therapist and I both agreed it makes sense for me to know whats going on.  He did that thing where you tell Bpd the two options then you make him think he chose to do it on his own... . its tricky I didn't even realize it had happened until I am writing this.  It was like "so, will it help if She is involved and is aware of whats going on so she knows when and how much she can spend?" But whats interesting is prior to that conclusion Bpd was like fighting it and saying things like if she asks to go out I say yes okay, spend what you want, or I will give her money or tell her this is how much you can spend. 

He asked if we trust each other. Surprisingly Bpd said yes, I did too, however the therapist looked at me and said really? You trust him to put your best interests first. I said in that case no, but I trust he won't cheat, I trust he makes good life decisions, I trust he will work hard and be present.

I then said its hard to say I don't trust him, because I feel like a lot of the negative tendencies come from (and I said this very gently because I know it hurts BPD) his borderline behavior and most times I don't think he's aware or that he is purposefully or intentionally trying to hurt me.

The therapist then said, like you feel like you are adored one minute, then devalued the next. I said yes.

The therapist then described a situation of if you have a dog, what can you do to tell if the dog really loves you.  I said, "you let them go." And the therapist said that's right you open the door and there the dog goes running out of the house.  He will take off. Then he said, but I know the dog loves me because guess who will come back and sit on the door step. 

And he continued to say that you can't coop her up in the house and make decisions for her and call that love.

He then said BPD needs to give me the benefit of the doubt more, and be less accusatory because he tends to feel more and say things more readily.  He said that I have raw skin and am more sensitive than most and that I need to learn to get tough skin.  He said we need to practice not saying things that aren't nice. Practice giving each other the benefit of the doubt. Giving grace, like for instance when I am having anxiety and hes trying to get frisky with me not to take it personally and allow me my time. 

Then he said we will see you next week.

-Blow up occuring now-

BPD just came in here and asked me what I was doing I said I was emailing about something and it was private.  He then said "More secrets!" And I said no, if it were secret I wouldn't have told you what it was about.  I then said how are you practicing giving me the benefit of the doubt and applying grace? It just spiraled into a crying fit and going on about feeling empty everyday.

He just said he's had enough for the night and took off.

This is just one day of my life.

His therapist compared me to a dog being locked up in a kennel.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Loosestrife]

Why was the email private?

[Thread]

It hurts his feelings to see me talk about our daily happening ... . To share his behavior with others. It's embarrassing for him. He doesn't like any of my therapists they're a threat to our relationship. He doesn't like that I talk to people about our personal matters.

Does your BPD know about this site? Are they okay with it? Mine would not be.

[Indiegrl]

Hanging,

I haven't seen this post of yours earlier. Wanted to let you know that it touched me.

The transparency, the clarity with how you tell the story makes it both vivid and trustworthy. I guess this therapist experienced you the same way - it seems almost as he nailed the possibility/ presence of BPD right away?

When the therapist compares your situation to a dog being locked up in a kennel - those are strong words with an important message. I guess all of this - what it really means - still ponders inside you.

I experienced something similar when our therapist told me "I hope you see that you need to get out of this situation". A sober therapist with 30 years of experience - wow, that one hit hard. I guess... .what it really did, was breaking the final hole in the thick FOG. And I stepped out of the FOG, and in a moment of clearminded action, I stated MY NEEDS clearly; nothing special, without blame, without anger. But he couldn't handle it at all, his emails with long and hard analyzes of all my wrongdoings and flaws, became even more persistent. He has sent some nice emails too, but to be honest: At this time, they feel shallow. As if they only are reflections of a dream, our happy and idealized days. As if the good things in me doesn't blend with the rest; the present situation.

And now... .I've come to the point were I still can see his extreme positive sides, but I also see his immature and difficult, harming sides, to such a degree that I small part of me for the first time actually is thinking: I don't want to be with a person who is like that. The picture of me being dragged down into destructive neverending discussions of details, of having a partner that only values the parts of me that gives him and the relationsship what HE thinks is good, that means that the parts of me who is larger than the relationsship will constantly be dragged down, discarded, devalued.

In its' essence that means that he is not fond of me for no other reasons than what I have to offer him. And that leaves me with very little flexibility, stability and of course: No real freedom to develop myself in other areas of life. When writing this; even though I long for the intimacy and safety in a close family nest, that picture is one of a very constricted life. And I have to admit: I hate constrictions. Not that I do all these crazy things, cause I don't. I live a very stable life, no impulsivity here I need that safety for myself, but the mind is free, and without the freedom of mind, the fredoom to explore if I choose to - that is no good life. Not for me, it isn't.

Yesterday I sent him a very long email where I make my position clear: I do not think anymore that we will be able to solve our problems, I do think our needs are way too different: I won't be able to cover his needs for security (control?) and vice versa: He won't be able to cover my needs for being trusted and having (a normal degree of) personal space/freedom.

So I've entered another stage. If he continues to criticize me and telling me all that's wrong with me, this will be quite easy, to let him go. If he flips and start to talk about his love and affection and wonderful familylife we've shared, if he starts to reflect upon his own part in us developing an unhealthy relationship, then I will have a hard time.

Hanging, I feel you. You seem like av very empathetic, strong and clearminded woman. A part of me just want to go simple with your question and answer: This man doesn't do you any good. I think you will do better off without him.

I know that if I had lived with my man, and not have had my own house and life in another city, my situation would have been very different, I would have felt very obliged to stay and try working it out. It's far easier for me to get the distance I need to analyze things in a rational way.

Take care, Hanging, it's a difficult process, but stay true to yourself and keep on working it. 

[Indiegrl]

I've come to think of it as a question of quality of life.

If you are responsible for your life and how you live it, how you spend your very limited time on earth: What quality of life do you want?

Isn't there some sort of ethical responsibility of creating, sustaing, developing, living a good life quality? May this be a position to work from too, not only the position of obligation (to marriage, God, tradition, family etc.?)

(Obviously I'm not talking about the material stuff here, only the human, emotional, psychological dimensions).

[Indiegrl]

I didn't know I was posting on the Staying-board. I apologize if any of my comments or reflections come off as inappropriate.

[Thread]

Indiegrl

I flip back and forth! Do not apologize I am here for insight and to hear experience and to have truth! I appreciate and value your openness and advice!

[vortex of confusion]

Pretty much all of the veterans here recommend keeping this place secret from your partner. This stuff is difficult to navigate. If the pwBPD were to find this site and knew your user name, it could potentially cause all sorts of problems. It is best to keep this site to yourself.

Have you looked through the lessons yet? There are some really good lessons on the Undecided forum about making the decision to stay or go. When I first found these forums, I was all over the map between staying, going, and being undecided.

How long have the two of you been together? Do you have any kids? What is the financial outlook?

The trust question is a difficult one to ponder. I know that I do not trust my partner on some things. With other things, I do. I find it difficult to say that I do not trust him across the board. I don't trust him to look out for me that is for sure.

I do want to commiserate with you about feeling like a dog locked up in a kennel. I felt that way for a while. I am out of the kennel now but it has taken a lot of work and a lot of effort.

Here are some hugs of support!   

[Sunfl0wer]

It sounds like a really great session with a T who is very intune to you both and likely experienced with BPD dynamics!

BPD just came in here and asked me what I was doing I said I was emailing about something and it was private.  He then said "More secrets!" And I said no, if it were secret I wouldn't have told you what it was about.  I then said how are you practicing giving me the benefit of the doubt and applying grace? It just spiraled into a crying fit and going on about feeling empty everyday.

When I read this statement, I thought, uh oh! . I have found out the hard way that the last thing that is going to encourage my partner to stick with T, is him thinking it will be used against him, or that the T prefers me, or is siding with me.  He was already sensitive to criticism that doesn't exist. It was really hard for me to not want to accelerate the process by reiterating things I heard in therapy, in hopes he would be motivated to use our treatment time and money more efficiently, and jump on board.  (Also, I was of course so eager for changes and seeing hope) This is especially true as his distorted mind often left only really hearing 5% some times. 

[Thread]

Vortex,

We have been married for 5 years. No kids. Own a business together (that is my baby). Finances are hard due to the business being new, however we make more profit monthly. 

He is a wonderful person. Someone who has 80% wonderfulness and then there is that BPD %20, but when that occurs its a BIG deal. Sometimes those percentages change due to how well my pwBPD is taking care of himself... .but yes, when its bad, its really hard. And then there are those moments of finally things are smooth sailing, and then it will begin again. 

Yes I know not to fully divulge this site. He knows there is a forum I use and it's helping me cope with things. That's the extent. (again dog in a kennel, hard to get time alone to do these things.) He has however just agreed to take some evaluations which is a great step forward, luckily there is a DPT institute in my area.

[waverider]

What you really want are the tools to help you thrive and not just survive.

This means you will have to take more control over your decisions, and any change will create resistance and conflict, so you will need to learn tools to overcome this.

It is not easy, but trying to keep the peace and hanging on to the Mr Nice guy side of things will not help you attain permanent changes.

You can't surgically extract the Mr Bad guy aspect. It will take an across the board change in the way you view your own life, values and boundaries. This is about changing you, not him. Him changing will be a flow on from you changing.

[Loosestrife]

Hi, I hope I didn't cause offence. If I private emails I tend to do them when I'm at work/ on my own so there isn't an issue.

[Thread]

Loosestrife,

No, no offense whatsoever!  I didn't really explain the email part well enough, I guess writing on this forum would have been a better description, while multitasking writing to my therapist.

I love this site and am really taking all that is said to heart. I am really liking all the different experiences being shared and help that is being suggested! I am learning and reading a lot and all of it is good.

 

[Hope26]

Dear Hanging,

Perhaps you answered your own question (re: Stay or Go), in your last post, where you said he is 80% wonderful though the 20% BPD is so difficult to deal with (don't we know it!)  I think that most of us who have made the decision to stay with our partners and work on the relationship, have done so because we feel the good qualities outweigh the bad.  This is probably true even outside the realm of BPD relationships.  My uBPDH is a very kind and caring man when he is not dysregulating.  He does a lot for me and we have common goals and interests.  The tools I've learned on this board have been immensely helpful; hopefully you will find this to be the case too.

[Thread]

Hope26

Thank you! And yes the dysregulation... .Oh boy! It sounds like our BPD H are pretty similar! He does do a lot for me. I guess it's just the getting knocked down again and again that poses the question of maybe I should go. We have a lot going on a lot of responsibilities and I know all the changes and obligations would even stress normal Individuals out... .And a lot of those stressors are triggers for my BPD. Thank you for your positive outlook!

[Hope26]

Hi Hanging,

Yes, it sounds like our husbands are perhaps similar, and it is SO comforting to be able to talk to others who experience similar issues.  I was re-reading your posts today, and I can so empathize with you.  The main thing that I have learned here is to not react defensively or get hugely upset myself when rages have occurred, and now it seems he gets ashamed when he does rage at me, to the point where the full-blown ones are almost a thing of the past.  He says it is because he has learned to meditate, so maybe it is due to both of us trying harder, but regardless I'm grateful for that progress.  However, I so know what you mean about 'not being able to have a normal conversation', as I believe you told your therapist.  I have to be so careful about what I say and how I say it that I guess I'm still very much walking on eggshells.  He is in what I call 'grouch' mode far more often than circumstances warrant, and has almost zero tolerance for stress.  Being around people is stressful for him, so I don't often get to see former friends.  I could relate to what you said about feeling like a dog in a cage due to the control issues.  Also, to not wanting to let you go to your favorite restaurant, or making you feel guilty if you do.  Since you have a business together, how does he do with relating to your staff and/or your clients?  Mine would have problems with that.  Fortunately, he is retired.  I am supposed to be retiring soon, and have big concerns about the increased level of togetherness.