I advised him on his career . . . big mistake

[SweetCharlotte]

I come back to the boards when my r/s of six years hits another glitch.

This time I have been devalued and stone-walled for six days because I gave him career advice with which he took issue.

When we were dating, he said he was planning to get a graduate degree for professional advancement. I said that sounded good to me. I didn't have the background info that I now have: that he was already close to six figures in debt and the tuition would add to that in the tens of thousands. That the field in which he hoped to advance was already glutted and he would not find many openings. That his physical health was so bad that his attendance record at his current position virtually prohibits him from the kind of advancement for which he studied.

Fast forward five years and these credentials are wearing out (licenses and such reach their "pull date" and if he is to keep them valid, he will have to invest more time and money. I asked him, why do this, if he is not applying for the openings that occur, there are very few openings, and his attendance record would rule him out anyway?

This was over the phone (we have a long-distance marriage). I know it is invalidating but I had tried for months to either silence these thoughts or express them in a more validating way, and finally I blurted them out. At first, he didn't explode at me, but soon afterward, he texted his declaration of war. How dare I say this to him, etc. I have stomped on his dreams, etc.

I have stayed away from JADE, tried some SET and some STOP, all via text because I'm sure he won't talk to me on the phone. Just waiting it out, but it's getting very long this time. The only contact he grants me is sending me attachments from the newspaper about crime and stores closing. He also texted a strange close-up of one of his eyes looking furious. He threatened to cancel his next trip to see me, which will be for my D11's dance recital. So disgusted that he is threatening something that is important to her. So typical of BPD.

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[an0ught]

Hi SweetCharlotte,

we are often approached for decision advice and we have to be really careful giving it. You mentioned a good point - often we don't have all the details. The main reason we have to be careful however is that the consequences are with someone else. It is also not unusual that a pwBPD pushes us into an "Advisor" position while clearly signaling to us what they want the decision to be. That way the fear of decision can be overcome and the guilt for the decision can be blamed on the advisor. The latter pattern unfortunately protects the pwBPD the ownership of the decision and then learning from the consequences. Hindsight is 20-20 and we all have been there 

This was over the phone (we have a long-distance marriage). I know it is invalidating but I had tried for months to either silence these thoughts or express them in a more validating way, and finally I blurted them out. At first, he didn't explode at me, but soon afterward, he texted his declaration of war. How dare I say this to him, etc. I have stomped on his dreams, etc.

I have stayed away from JADE, tried some SET and some STOP, all via text because I'm sure he won't talk to me on the phone. Just waiting it out, but it's getting very long this time. The only contact he grants me is sending me attachments from the newspaper about crime and stores closing. He also texted a strange close-up of one of his eyes looking furious. He threatened to cancel his next trip to see me, which will be for my D11's dance recital. So disgusted that he is threatening something that is important to her. So typical of BPD.

 Nobody likes to hear such truths and of course he is upset. But then these are facts and to some degree he is aware of them and they are part of the general pressure he feels. That wound is festering and it probably should have been cleaned a while ago. It is painful accepting the reality of investments gone wrong. But then only when he finally does it he can move forward.

Resorting to threatening D11's recital is a disgusting move 

[Notwendy]

I have found it best to stay clear of the adviser position- if possible but this is not always possible. Of course with shared finances, if you do that, returning to school is something that has to be discussed. Since you gave him advice over something he likely feels shame over, this is probably the source of his behavior. He may see you as hurting him, but really- it is his own pain and shame.

I don't think we should walk on eggshells in fear of saying or doing something. I think we can all relate to a time when we didn't do our best, and this feeling motivates us to do better, try harder, get more education. Sadly, for someone with BPD, these feelings can be an intense shame pit. Instead of thinking " I made a mistake" to them, it is "I am a worthless mistake". You didn't say this, but to them, if feels like you did.

Although we should not try to hurt them, or make this worse, we also can't be constantly tiptoeing around them protecting them from their own feelings. Ideally, they would deal with this shame in therapy, but this is hard to get someone to do. Most often they can project these feelings on to others.

I have found that even the slightest hint of a suggestion can be experienced as an invalidation- turning into a : you are worthless, stupid, inadequate... ." message. Once a small suggestion about moving something in the house turned into a 30 minute tirade over how dare I suggest she... .My H has gone off on me for the smallest things- when to take a kid for a haircut, which credit card to use in the store for a small item, decisions that seem really small compared to being snapped at. It was really confusing until I understood that "here use this card" became " you idiot you don't know which card to use" to him.

To me, it has helped to keep advice and suggestions to important things, and not to react to any behavior about them. This isn't always easy to do. However, usually, the emotions subside in time, and if the suggestion is a good one, we can sometimes reach an agreement.

Using the child's recital to show his anger at you is immature but that is his choice. Your D will see the difference between her parents. It helps to explain to her that it isn't about her. She may see this as not being lovable, or being the cause of his not being there. A relationship takes two. If your H chooses to ruin his relationship with her, that will be his loss. She knows that you are there for her.

[SweetCharlotte]

Thank you, An0ught and Notwendy; I'm pretty sure he would have gone ahead and enrolled in the graduate program without any input from me because it was an enticing addition to his self-worth. It gave him a stronger sense of identity. He is no longer just a [current position]; he is a potential [position he got the grad degree for]. It's just that the potential has never become real and probably never will. So he wants to keep on studying and taking exams in order to remain a potential [position he got the grad degree for].

If there were some way I could discuss this with him without it turning into the scripts of worthlessness and shame cited by Notwendy, I would. He should realize that if he keeps on investing in this second career that will never become real, it is only for his sense of self-worth and identity. Isn't there a less expensive way to accomplish this?

At least we do not share expenses and bank accounts (I believe Notwendy asked about this). However, since we are married (though long-distance), his bigger decisions have a way of impacting my finances. When tax time comes we always owe a lot to Uncle Sam. If he cannot pay it, I have to dig deeper. I've always been solvent and have assets such as a house (mortgage will be paid in one year), car (half-paid), and retirement account (but no pension). He has six-figure debt and a pension. We are in our mid-fifties, and he will probably need to retire before I do because of chronic health issues. The two kids are biologically mine and I will be responsible for putting them through college (which is the equivalent of another home mortgage). I was hoping that he would at least help me put the youngest through college, since she is the one who never had a father until he came along.

Probably making things worse, paradoxically, is that I recently got a promotion and raise, the second one twelve months. I've experienced jealousy from co-workers, but my uBPDh has shown nothing but joyfulness. I feel like his devaluation now is the indirect "boomerang effect" of my professional success over the past year.

[Notwendy]

Although he can be happy about your promotions, I think they also remind him of his not having advanced or achieved as much. I can imagine his being in a potential position that is not likely to be realized is at some level upsetting to him.

I know someone who is in that situation, and as he gets older, it becomes more evident that he has not achieved what many of his same age peers have. He often avoids get togethers with friends, and Facebook as it upsets him to see other people's achievements. This person also has some mental health issues that makes achievement difficult, and also has tuition debt- which compounds financial strains. Logically, he understands that other people's achievements have nothing to do with him, and that these people like him and enjoy his company- but he does feel as if he is not up to par.

This has nothing to do with you, and congratulations on the promotions. You should of course be free to achieve as you can and it is great that you do. It is a fine line to walk with finances- telling an adult that enrolling in school is not a good idea- if you end up paying the tax or the debt, but you can have a say in your finances.

My mother can get attached to images. She has not driven a car in decades ( and isn't likely to) but she talks as if she is driving places ( she has friends drive her, or takes a cab). Once I said " you don't drive" and she went ballistic. Sometimes she mentions doing something that we know she can not do, or would be unwise. We used to discuss this as if it was serious and she would go bizerk. Now, we just let it go. However, these ideas do not involve our finances, and we  would have a say in that if it did... .and she would likely be angry at us.

[gomez_addams]

My stbx uBPDw has some large college debt, although nowhere near six-figs. Used to try to get her to pay it down (I make decent money). She'd tell me she didn't want yo use my money because it didn't feel like a real marriage.

So now we're moving towards mediation, and of course she wants me to pay off the debt.

Nothing gets my stbx as angry as when I suggest getting a job.

Now that I'm living separately at least I don't have to hear it.

I love her so much, but she hurts me so bad.

Gomez

[SweetCharlotte]

My stbx uBPDw has some large college debt, although nowhere near six-figs. Used to try to get her to pay it down (I make decent money). She'd tell me she didn't want yo use my money because it didn't feel like a real marriage.

So now we're moving towards mediation, and of course she wants me to pay off the debt.

Isn't that ironic, Gómez? Once I started divorce proceedings against my uBPDh, when we were two years into our five-year marriage. I was afraid that he would pull the same trick, but he didn't. All he wanted financially was to make sure that I could never make a future claim against the WHOPPING salary and subsequently, pension, that he soon planned to be earning thanks to his latest graduate degree!

He has started texting sweet nothings again and is planning to go ahead with his visit. I've survived another painted-black episode intact. Thank you, bpdfamily! (Yes; I'll donate when the private message comes around.)