Took Nothing... Gave Everything

[DyingLove]

Do you feel this way?  I certainly do.  I'm going thru a spell over the past couple of days, maybe a growth spurt (hopefully) but a lot of things are rehashing and ruminating thru my mind. My days seem to slightly be reverting to wondering "WHY" again and "WAS IT ME". I know I walked away with nothing but insight into what goes on in people other than myself, But I gave and gave and gave. I'm not talking about money, although it does come into play.  I'm talking about heart, soul, caring, actions, and all those things that you just can't always POINT to and say- there it is.

Don't want a pat on the back.

Don't want a thankyou, even if I didn't get one (and I didn't)

I just want to talk about how much we give or gave and how unbalanced things were.

I'm not sure if I heard it here. I might have. But I was always under the impression that a relationship is 50/50.  Then I heard a different twist, that it's really 100/100, and that does make perfect sense. You might be 50% of the relationship, but in honesty you have got to give it your 100%

I want my next relationship to be as healthy as possible. The past really does assist us in not making the same errors in the future, but we have to still be able to spot things that are highly camoflauged.

[going places]

Do you feel this way?  I certainly do.  I'm going thru a spell over the past couple of days, maybe a growth spurt (hopefully) but a lot of things are rehashing and ruminating thru my mind.

What do you think pushed your button to 'reshash and ruminate'?

My days seem to slightly be reverting to wondering "WHY" again and "WAS IT ME". I know I walked away with nothing but insight into what goes on in people other than myself, But I gave and gave and gave. I'm not talking about money, although it does come into play.  I'm talking about heart, soul, caring, actions, and all those things that you just can't always POINT to and say- there it is.

Don't want a pat on the back.

Don't want a thankyou, even if I didn't get one (and I didn't)

I just want to talk about how much we give or gave and how unbalanced things were.

The way I look at things today, July 6, 2015 is this:

What I did in the past is my personal 'history book'.

When I move forward into the future, I have that history book (which tells me the action and reaction of things) to guide me in my choices and behavior.

Looking at a relationship like a card game.

Two players have a hand full of cards.

One player puts 2 cards in a hat.

The other player takes two cards out of the hat, and puts 3 cards back in the hat.

Player one pulls 2 cards out of the hat and puts 1 back in, and so on and so on.

As long as both players are putting cards in the hat (IE investing in the relationship) then both players can take cards out of the hat.

It becomes an unfair card game when one player puts all his cards in the hat, and the other player takes cards yet never puts any in the hat... .

I'm not sure if I heard it here. I might have. But I was always under the impression that a relationship is 50/50.  Then I heard a different twist, that it's really 100/100, and that does make perfect sense. You might be 50% of the relationship, but in honesty you have got to give it your 100%

It's 100% 100%.

YES there will be moments when one requires more (lets say the maternal grandmother dies; the wife will do more taking and the husband more giving in this time of grieving) .

But no relationship can survive when it is a Dead Sea relationship... .

The Dead Sea takes water in, but gives nothing. The salt content is SO HIGH that it will KILL you if you step in.

Always taking, never giving, stagnant deadly pool.

I want my next relationship to be as healthy as possible. The past really does assist us in not making the same errors in the future, but we have to still be able to spot things that are highly camoflauged.

Getting healthy myself first.

Communication is the KEY

Actions speak louder than words.

Daily prayer asking the Lords protection

[fromheeltoheal]

I gave and gave and gave too Dying, and after the relationship ended I wondered after the first gave, why were there two more, when there was no get?  A whole lot of strife could have been avoided had I walked away after the first gave, and digging as to why I didn't is where the growth is.

[DyingLove]

Good answers so far... .and that was fast, so I know it's something that others besides myself probably feel strongly about.

Why Goingplaces did it come up?   Maybe music, maybe being alone, maybe not going to the gym most of the week, being tired and not being able to satisfy the tiredness. Maybe just the weather too, knowing that I would be doing things with the ex for a given time of the year.


Another thing- Anyone feel that we need to allow an entire year or more to pass so that we can experience the new times with just ourselves, or to put it another way, to experience the times of the year that we spent with our ex, WITHOUT our ex this time?

I hope I said that correctly.  I didn't get to certain holidays yet that I would have spent with her, lets say thanksgiving, this year it will be without her, and it's probably going to be sad and maybe somewhat angry too wondering and ruminating what she might be doing without me?  Crap like that.  I'm trying to NOT think that way, but it's hard just to turn it off.

[Soldier Of Sorrow]

I am still neck deep in this toxic quicksand of endless giving, but at the same time, being constantly taken for granted by my female BPD significant other.

About the 50/50, or 100/100 ratios of giving and receiving, I believe those were, sadly, some ideals that we have set up initially along with our impulses/ kind natures to rescue, love, and care for a vulnerable BPD in need and distress.

Somewhere along the line, the giving:receiving ratio nose dives down to 95:5. And in my case, this has gone on for YEARS before I started naming that nagging, festering, empty, depressed, angry, exhausted sensation in me.

So chin up guys!

I'm sure there is something we can do to re-establish our boundaries and start caring about OURSELVES instead.

 

[going places]

Good answers so far... .and that was fast, so I know it's something that others besides myself probably feel strongly about.

Why Goingplaces did it come up?   Maybe music, maybe being alone, maybe not going to the gym most of the week, being tired and not being able to satisfy the tiredness. Maybe just the weather too, knowing that I would be doing things with the ex for a given time of the year.


Another thing- Anyone feel that we need to allow an entire year or more to pass so that we can experience the new times with just ourselves, or to put it another way, to experience the times of the year that we spent with our ex, WITHOUT our ex this time?

I hope I said that correctly.  I didn't get to certain holidays yet that I would have spent with her, lets say thanksgiving, this year it will be without her, and it's probably going to be sad and maybe somewhat angry too wondering and ruminating what she might be doing without me?  Crap like that.  I'm trying to NOT think that way, but it's hard just to turn it off.

Fortunately, I have never been a big "Hallmark Holiday" kind of gal... .

It will be more difficult for me when my kids are grown and out of the home.

As far as 'spending time' around the hoiday's w/ my ex?

I did all the work, cleaning, cooking, cleaning, entertaining while he sat on his butt and played video games, computer games, or watched tv.

2014 was the first T-giving / xmas w/o him... .just me and the kids... .and we did just fine.

We just don't miss the drama, sadness and abuse he brought to the table!

[fromheeltoheal]

Another thing- Anyone feel that we need to allow an entire year or more to pass so that we can experience the new times with just ourselves, or to put it another way, to experience the times of the year that we spent with our ex, WITHOUT our ex this time?

I hope I said that correctly.  I didn't get to certain holidays yet that I would have spent with her, lets say thanksgiving, this year it will be without her, and it's probably going to be sad and maybe somewhat angry too wondering and ruminating what she might be doing without me?  Crap like that.  I'm trying to NOT think that way, but it's hard just to turn it off.

There is no timeframe and there are a lot of variables, bottom line is it takes what it takes.  The best gauge is where your focus is and how you feel; listen to your heart, not your head, and our hearts don't really use calendars.

About a year and a half after I left her, her birthday came and went and I forgot!  I didn't realize it had been her birthday until a few weeks later, and I was really frickin' happy when I realized that.

[DyingLove]

Another thing- Anyone feel that we need to allow an entire year or more to pass so that we can experience the new times with just ourselves, or to put it another way, to experience the times of the year that we spent with our ex, WITHOUT our ex this time?

I hope I said that correctly.  I didn't get to certain holidays yet that I would have spent with her, lets say thanksgiving, this year it will be without her, and it's probably going to be sad and maybe somewhat angry too wondering and ruminating what she might be doing without me?  Crap like that.  I'm trying to NOT think that way, but it's hard just to turn it off.

There is no timeframe and there are a lot of variables, bottom line is it takes what it takes.  The best gauge is where your focus is and how you feel; listen to your heart, not your head, and our hearts don't really use calendars.

About a year and a half after I left her, her birthday came and went and I forgot!  I didn't realize it had been her birthday until a few weeks later, and I was really frickin' happy when I realized that.

I know that my mind has moved on way beyond my heart.  That really sucks, because it's like my heart is all by itself.  I had to talk to a special friend last night for about 2 hours to get into a better frame of mind and come to some kind of understanding about the moment. She's been thru similar and she handles it very well,,,at least on the outside. But after bringing things up and realizing that the ex, once again, was the topic of my returning grief.  I call it the rollercoaster and there is no price of admission nor schedule for rides. 

Seems that this morning is a little "sad" too, and usually my mornings have been pretty level.

By the way, a new game started up in my mind.  I'm able to actually fabricate and animate my ex "on demand".  I mean, I can make her dance, and smile and hug and kiss me, and just do anything via thoughts.  I'm not trying to but If thoughts just casually happen, and I think of a situation, like maybe when we were listening to music and having a pleasant time, she might come up dancing and swaying behind me.  It's like the most wonderful nightmare of nightmares! The same goes for her being miserable, but the "pretty time" seem to override the lousy times.  It's like the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other.

I've been taking sam-e for nearly a month, and yesterday, Sunday, I didn't take, do you think it could be that?  I think my hair maybe thinning and I might be gaining weight because of the sam-e and I was going to stop it for a while. I did take this morning though.  Fun times right?  This stinks again.

[fromheeltoheal]

By the way, a new game started up in my mind.  I'm able to actually fabricate and animate my ex "on demand".  I mean, I can make her dance, and smile and hug and kiss me, and just do anything via thoughts.  I'm not trying to but If thoughts just casually happen, and I think of a situation, like maybe when we were listening to music and having a pleasant time, she might come up dancing and swaying behind me.  It's like the most wonderful nightmare of nightmares! The same goes for her being miserable, but the "pretty time" seem to override the lousy times.  It's like the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other.

You don't want to be doing that Dying.  I don't know you're whole story, but your relationship lasted 4 years and you've been here 2 and a half, yes?  It's time to more robustly shift the focus from her to you and from the past to the future; it takes conscious effort, but eventually your heart will catch up to your head.  For reference I left her 2 years ago and I'm focusing on the present and the future pretty much full time, I'm excited about where I'm going, and she's a distant memory, but that was far from automatic for a long time, it takes effort initially.

I've been taking sam-e for nearly a month, and yesterday, Sunday, I didn't take, do you think it could be that?  I think my hair maybe thinning and I might be gaining weight because of the sam-e and I was going to stop it for a while. I did take this morning though.  Fun times right?  This stinks again.

I've been taking SAM-e and 5-htp off and on for years, naturally occurring antidepressants beat the hell out of something created in a lab IMO, although true fixes don't come in a pill.  The most effective things we can do are eat right, drink a lot of water, exercise enough but not too much, get enough rest and sleep, and create a positive mental attitude; those things are far more effective than anything that comes in a bottle.

[DyingLove]

By the way, a new game started up in my mind.  I'm able to actually fabricate and animate my ex "on demand".  I mean, I can make her dance, and smile and hug and kiss me, and just do anything via thoughts.  I'm not trying to but If thoughts just casually happen, and I think of a situation, like maybe when we were listening to music and having a pleasant time, she might come up dancing and swaying behind me.  It's like the most wonderful nightmare of nightmares! The same goes for her being miserable, but the "pretty time" seem to override the lousy times.  It's like the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other.

You don't want to be doing that Dying.  I don't know you're whole story, but your relationship lasted 4 years and you've been here 2 and a half, yes?  It's time to more robustly shift the focus from her to you and from the past to the future; it takes conscious effort, but eventually your heart will catch up to your head.  For reference I left her 2 years ago and I'm focusing on the present and the future pretty much full time, I'm excited about where I'm going, and she's a distant memory, but that was far from automatic for a long time, it takes effort initially.

I've been taking sam-e for nearly a month, and yesterday, Sunday, I didn't take, do you think it could be that?  I think my hair maybe thinning and I might be gaining weight because of the sam-e and I was going to stop it for a while. I did take this morning though.  Fun times right?  This stinks again.

I've been taking SAM-e and 5-htp off and on for years, naturally occurring antidepressants beat the hell out of something created in a lab IMO, although true fixes don't come in a pill.  The most effective things we can do are eat right, drink a lot of water, exercise enough but not too much, get enough rest and sleep, and create a positive mental attitude; those things are far more effective than anything that comes in a bottle.

4 years in the RS and out only since 3/21/15.  I think I'm doing pretty good for nearly 4 months out... .Am I expecting miracles?  Of course I am.

[fromheeltoheal]

By the way, a new game started up in my mind.  I'm able to actually fabricate and animate my ex "on demand".  I mean, I can make her dance, and smile and hug and kiss me, and just do anything via thoughts.  I'm not trying to but If thoughts just casually happen, and I think of a situation, like maybe when we were listening to music and having a pleasant time, she might come up dancing and swaying behind me.  It's like the most wonderful nightmare of nightmares! The same goes for her being miserable, but the "pretty time" seem to override the lousy times.  It's like the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other.

You don't want to be doing that Dying.  I don't know you're whole story, but your relationship lasted 4 years and you've been here 2 and a half, yes?  It's time to more robustly shift the focus from her to you and from the past to the future; it takes conscious effort, but eventually your heart will catch up to your head.  For reference I left her 2 years ago and I'm focusing on the present and the future pretty much full time, I'm excited about where I'm going, and she's a distant memory, but that was far from automatic for a long time, it takes effort initially.

I've been taking sam-e for nearly a month, and yesterday, Sunday, I didn't take, do you think it could be that?  I think my hair maybe thinning and I might be gaining weight because of the sam-e and I was going to stop it for a while. I did take this morning though.  Fun times right?  This stinks again.

I've been taking SAM-e and 5-htp off and on for years, naturally occurring antidepressants beat the hell out of something created in a lab IMO, although true fixes don't come in a pill.  The most effective things we can do are eat right, drink a lot of water, exercise enough but not too much, get enough rest and sleep, and create a positive mental attitude; those things are far more effective than anything that comes in a bottle.

4 years in the RS and out only since 3/21/15.  I think I'm doing pretty good for nearly 4 months out... .Am I expecting miracles?  Of course I am.

Oh, that's much more recent Dying, and you're right where you are supposed to be.  I was drinking way too much at 4 months out, so you're handing things better than I did.  The stuff I mentioned still applies, it takes what it takes, as fast as we can.  Take care of you!

[DyingLove]

Thank you Fromheeltoheal.

I threw that comment out there quick.  I had gotten busy here but wanted to just make the time frame clear. Yeah I am not far along.  Seems like freakin' forever!  It really does, but I think I am overall doing good. And then not good at the same time. So many phases to go thru and each phase is like, damn here we go again.

One of my last posts about NC is kinda related to the way I feel and how time is affecting me. Seems like forever that I've been NC and she's not contacted me either. It was making me wonder how and what she was feeling while there is this NC going on.  It's almost like feeling even further into the fact that she doesn't want me.  BUT, I've been giving a lot of thought to how she thinks and operates as a person with, obviously immense problems that she has.  Everything, every detail wreaks with dysfunction regarding what her life contains.  Yes, I know that I should be evading these thoughts, but once again, I'm driving at my speed limit.  I know most people are still suffering way past 4 months, and there are some that are able to get out faster.  I guess my situation doesn't allow for me to move any faster than I'm going.

Sure am glad I got everyone here for "hand holding", seems I need "mama" more than I realized.  Thank you everyone.

[rotiroti]

One of my last posts about NC is kinda related to the way I feel and how time is affecting me. Seems like forever that I've been NC and she's not contacted me either. It was making me wonder how and what she was feeling while there is this NC going on.  It's almost like feeling even further into the fact that she doesn't want me.  BUT, I've been giving a lot of thought to how she thinks and operates as a person with, obviously immense problems that she has.  Everything, every detail wreaks with dysfunction regarding what her life contains.  Yes, I know that I should be evading these thoughts, but once again, I'm driving at my speed limit.  I know most people are still suffering way past 4 months, and there are some that are able to get out faster.  I guess my situation doesn't allow for me to move any faster than I'm going.

Hey DyingLove, I think that's a great insight to try to see it from her perspective. It's hard to be in n/c and wonder how the ex could forget all the good times... but then we have to understand that they don't think like us.

I'm in the same boat and I have many bad days in addition to the good ones. Everyone heals at their own pace and I really like how you said you were driving at your speed limit.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, I know that I should be evading these thoughts, but once again, I'm driving at my speed limit.  I know most people are still suffering way past 4 months, and there are some that are able to get out faster.  I guess my situation doesn't allow for me to move any faster than I'm going.

Ruminating is normal, our brain rewiring itself to make sense of the new reality, it takes what it takes, and there is no timeframe.  You didn't ask me for advice, hope you don't mind the unsolicited type, but consciously shifting your focus from her to you and from the past to the future will help keep you at the speed limit.

Sure am glad I got everyone here for "hand holding", seems I need "mama" more than I realized.  Thank you everyone.

Or just folks who have been there, sharing experience, strength and hope, whatever you need man.

[DyingLove]

Yes, I know that I should be evading these thoughts, but once again, I'm driving at my speed limit.  I know most people are still suffering way past 4 months, and there are some that are able to get out faster.  I guess my situation doesn't allow for me to move any faster than I'm going.

Ruminating is normal, our brain rewiring itself to make sense of the new reality, it takes what it takes, and there is no timeframe.  You didn't ask me for advice, hope you don't mind the unsolicited type, but consciously shifting your focus from her to you and from the past to the future will help keep you at the speed limit.

Sure am glad I got everyone here for "hand holding", seems I need "mama" more than I realized.  Thank you everyone.

Or just folks who have been there, sharing experience, strength and hope, whatever you need man.

Advice? Glad you and everyone are able to give it!  So don't think that it's not appreciated.   But are you saying it's GOOD to stay at my speed limit or are you saying that it will prevent me from speeding?  Either way, I kinda understand what you were getting at with the shifting focus.  I do know that, Man, am I really really tired in the mind today.  I wasn't (we never are) expecting an encore performance of this stuff anytime soon.  Thank you

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, I know that I should be evading these thoughts, but once again, I'm driving at my speed limit.  I know most people are still suffering way past 4 months, and there are some that are able to get out faster.  I guess my situation doesn't allow for me to move any faster than I'm going.

Ruminating is normal, our brain rewiring itself to make sense of the new reality, it takes what it takes, and there is no timeframe.  You didn't ask me for advice, hope you don't mind the unsolicited type, but consciously shifting your focus from her to you and from the past to the future will help keep you at the speed limit.

Sure am glad I got everyone here for "hand holding", seems I need "mama" more than I realized.  Thank you everyone.

Or just folks who have been there, sharing experience, strength and hope, whatever you need man.

Advice? Glad you and everyone are able to give it!  So don't think that it's not appreciated.   But are you saying it's GOOD to stay at my speed limit or are you saying that it will prevent me from speeding?  Either way, I kinda understand what you were getting at with the shifting focus.  I do know that, Man, am I really really tired in the mind today.  I wasn't (we never are) expecting an encore performance of this stuff anytime soon.  Thank you

My experience is there's a certain amount of inertia coming out of these relationships that will pull us to focus on the past and our exes, so it's best to consciously shift our focus to the future until the past resolves itself in our heads.  If we don't we can get stuck, I did for a few months, drank like a fish, no sleep, shtty food, just spun in place, and it wasn't until I took control of my detachment that things started to get better.  That's part of taking our power back anyway, a good thing.

There doesn't seem to be any way to speed up detachment, the best we can do is take very good care of ourselves, educate ourselves and learn, shift our focus per the above, get professional help if we need it, have faith in whatever guiding principles we believe in, pretty much don't do anything to get in our own way and what's supposed to happen will.  Trying to speed it up by running really fast is really just distraction, not feeling what we need to feel, I did that for a while too, got a lot done and got in really good shape, but it's exhausting and the healing and processing happens in the slowing down.

[DyingLove]

Somewhere somehow I took a wrong turn.  I'm not sure exactly what it is.  I was doing pretty darn good. Then BANG, I just went deeper into grief than I had in a long time.

Right now, my mind just shifted to Florida, we used to go to IKEA in Tampa now and again, and my mind just <BAM> when to driving that route.  Not even the ex was in the throught, just that I was RIGHT THERE and driving in the car on the route, not even going there but coming back.  There was absolutely NO logical reason that this popped into my mind.  This is the kinda thing I've been battling on and off, and now more lately.

Any thoughts on this?  Anything Physiological? 

[oor_wullie]

i really wanted to go back, and address your original point about how they (the borderline) rarely give anything back. because that's a really, *really* useful thing to remember, and to help you put your relationship in its correct context - as a deeply dysfunctional and unfulfilling one.

it was the same for me - i gave 100, whereas she gave maybe 20, and only then when it suited her entirely to do so. and always something was expected *immediately* in return. for example, when she got sick, i rushed to her side to take care of her. she would exaggerate symptoms, and always be on death's door. sometimes i knew it was because she was hung over, but she wouldn't admit to having a drinking problem, so it was always something else like a cold (and woe betide you if you even suggested maybe she was just hungover because she really had spent that night drinking with her friends - no, she'd say, this isn't because of the drinking, it's definitely a cold, and f**k you for suggesting otherwise, how can you be so uncaring!).

anyway, i'd bring her food, take the day off work to be with her, rub her back, anything she "needed". happened multiple times.

but the one time *i* got ill... .well, she was all full of sympathy on the phone, but when she came over she didn't really want to be near me, and got pretty bored pretty quick. then made plans and decided she *needed* to be someplace else, sorry, she was sure i'd be fine.

same thing on my birthday. she took me out for lunch, and spent a good deal of the day with me, and it was nice. but i'd arranged to have my kids come over in the evening, and i'd planned to cook a real feast for us all. it was important she made a good impression with my kids too, as they were still a little suspicious of her. but, oops, sorry, she really needed to tidy up her flat that evening she decided, at the last minute, and cancelled on me by text. very sorry, but there you go.

i'm not going to bore you with what *i* did for her on her birthday. it was a lot. and, i should add, this was not long after she'd left her husband, for whom the previous year she'd thrown a huge surprise birthday party for - an event she was never done talking about (and about the drunken carnage/fun that had ensued... .nasty sexual stuff i really didn't want to hear). so you could say she really owed me at least to show up on my birthday... .

i proof read her entire PhD thesis, made (by hand) her favourite chocolates from the best ingredients, cooked her meals, bought and learned to use a hair-waxing machine, walked her dog in the middle of the night, paid for everything, learned to make sushi... .the list is endless. *she* wouldn't even tell her friends she was going out with me, or admit to her recently-dumped husband that she was going out with me, even while she was still technically living with him, and not even after she moved out.

i had to suck it all up, but if i asked one single favour that she didn't really want to do, she'd find some excuse to get out of it (she'd lose her phone, or forget to charge it, or just claim she was sleeping, or hadn't checked it).

the bottom line is that it's in their natures. they cannot, cannot reciprocate. they can only give on their own terms, when it's "safe" for them to do so.

so, here's the thing. the equation needs to balance. in a true partnership, there should have been about the same on your side as there was on her's. 100/100. maybe it's 90/95, or 60/70 on a bad day. but it should roughly be about equal. in fact, you shouldn't even need to keep score. and you clearly weren't, and neither was i, because if we were we'd have noticed that we were getting nothing in return.

you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real.

your next relationship, with a non-borderline, should be about balance. not perfect balance, because it never is, but it should be roughly balanced. and no blinding lights, just a good steady glow.

take care.

[DyingLove]

i really wanted to go back, and address your original point about how they (the borderline) rarely give anything back. because that's a really, *really* useful thing to remember, and to help you put your relationship in its correct context - as a deeply dysfunctional and unfulfilling one.

it was the same for me - i gave 100, whereas she gave maybe 20, and only then when it suited her entirely to do so. and always something was expected *immediately* in return. for example, when she got sick, i rushed to her side to take care of her. she would exaggerate symptoms, and always be on death's door. sometimes i knew it was because she was hung over, but she wouldn't admit to having a drinking problem, so it was always something else like a cold (and woe betide you if you even suggested maybe she was just hungover because she really had spent that night drinking with her friends - no, she'd say, this isn't because of the drinking, it's definitely a cold, and f**k you for suggesting otherwise, how can you be so uncaring!).

anyway, i'd bring her food, take the day off work to be with her, rub her back, anything she "needed". happened multiple times.

but the one time *i* got ill... .well, she was all full of sympathy on the phone, but when she came over she didn't really want to be near me, and got pretty bored pretty quick. then made plans and decided she *needed* to be someplace else, sorry, she was sure i'd be fine.

same thing on my birthday. she took me out for lunch, and spent a good deal of the day with me, and it was nice. but i'd arranged to have my kids come over in the evening, and i'd planned to cook a real feast for us all. it was important she made a good impression with my kids too, as they were still a little suspicious of her. but, oops, sorry, she really needed to tidy up her flat that evening she decided, at the last minute, and cancelled on me by text. very sorry, but there you go.

i'm not going to bore you with what *i* did for her on her birthday. it was a lot. and, i should add, this was not long after she'd left her husband, for whom the previous year she'd thrown a huge surprise birthday party for - an event she was never done talking about (and about the drunken carnage/fun that had ensued... .nasty sexual stuff i really didn't want to hear). so you could say she really owed me at least to show up on my birthday... .

i proof read her entire PhD thesis, made (by hand) her favourite chocolates from the best ingredients, cooked her meals, bought and learned to use a hair-waxing machine, walked her dog in the middle of the night, paid for everything, learned to make sushi... .the list is endless. *she* wouldn't even tell her friends she was going out with me, or admit to her recently-dumped husband that she was going out with me, even while she was still technically living with him, and not even after she moved out.

i had to suck it all up, but if i asked one single favour that she didn't really want to do, she'd find some excuse to get out of it (she'd lose her phone, or forget to charge it, or just claim she was sleeping, or hadn't checked it).

the bottom line is that it's in their natures. they cannot, cannot reciprocate. they can only give on their own terms, when it's "safe" for them to do so.

so, here's the thing. the equation needs to balance. in a true partnership, there should have been about the same on your side as there was on her's. 100/100. maybe it's 90/95, or 60/70 on a bad day. but it should roughly be about equal. in fact, you shouldn't even need to keep score. and you clearly weren't, and neither was i, because if we were we'd have noticed that we were getting nothing in return.

you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real.

your next relationship, with a non-borderline, should be about balance. not perfect balance, because it never is, but it should be roughly balanced. and no blinding lights, just a good steady glow.

take care.

Thank you oor_wullie.  Very enlightening. I can relate to nearly everything, especially about her being sick.  Mine was like that, holding her head, neck, ear, teeth, face, gallbladder, legs, ankles, knees, etc.  The time she was sick, I sat with her and rubbed her head for hours and held the puke bucket.  Rushing to the end,,,I was just NOT the man she met, and all she did was support me.  It's sad, it's funny, it makes me mad, it confuses me... .It's all that and a bag of chips as they say.

I cannot emphasize enought that I did NOT want recognition or a thank you or a pat on the back, but because and only because I thought the relationship was a two way love affair as well as fair.  Once a person realizes that it was out of kilter all along, then the things you have done become something you wish you never did.  Arrrggghhhh it's so hurtful and annoying.

[rotiroti]

i really wanted to go back, and address your original point about how they (the borderline) rarely give anything back. because that's a really, *really* useful thing to remember, and to help you put your relationship in its correct context - as a deeply dysfunctional and unfulfilling one.

you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real.

thank you for that, I think this is a very powerful and useful point for anyone here.

[AwakenedOne]

"you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real."

That is one of the most insightful comments I have read at this site.

I don't want to tell you what was real or not for you DL. I'll speak only for myself. You can consider whether this logic is of use to you.

Was it real?... .We were married. Was it a real marriage of how married people are supposed to act? No. We were both Christians. Were we both doing what Christians are supposed to do? No. Were we both ultimately in love for better or for worse? No. Were the things we experienced together real? The event was. But in a way if you look back at it through a 3D BPD microscope it's all an act or an illusion. So I guess the answer to that one is no also.

You mentioned IKEA. My x wife raged in IKEA a few times. Some really miserable hours spent there for sure. Thanks for reminding me of that bro.  She even raged in the IKEA cafeteria.

If you look at it all as a dysfunctional sick joke of a relationship and see some way to not repeat this type of thing ever again you come out a winner ultimately.

[oor_wullie]

Somewhere somehow I took a wrong turn.  I'm not sure exactly what it is.  I was doing pretty darn good. Then BANG, I just went deeper into grief than I had in a long time.

Right now, my mind just shifted to Florida, we used to go to IKEA in Tampa now and again, and my mind just <BAM> when to driving that route.  Not even the ex was in the throught, just that I was RIGHT THERE and driving in the car on the route, not even going there but coming back.  There was absolutely NO logical reason that this popped into my mind.  This is the kinda thing I've been battling on and off, and now more lately.

Any thoughts on this?  Anything Physiological? 

i just wanted to pick up on this. i get these things too. a road, or a place - it's actually quite often a road which was part of a happy time, or a pleasant journey. were the trips to IKEA something you remember fondly? or with regret? funny that it doesn't have to be even part of a powerful memory or moment. sometimes i just remember driving, or the road itself - the stuff at the side of the road that reminds me of that specific road, and a specific journey connected to it. whatever it is, i'm dragged right back, and for a moment i feel as though i'm really *there*!

it's debilitating at best, and sometimes it hits me so hard i start weeping right there.

in that moment, you remember something, something good, or neutral, or something you regret or miss, something to do with your BPDex, and because that memory is so clean and clear, and contains nothing of the bad stuff, the pain, the futility of trying to maintain a relationship with a BPD, your brain processes it wrong. you just feel that sudden pain of loss without all the attending BPD madness; without the logical knowing that, actually, none of it could ever really *be*, not with a borderline.

but your brain doesn't process that way. because you're normal. because that's how the mind works. that's how a sane mind works.

you have to be constantly on your guard. NC means, also, you have to squash any thoughts of your BPDex. when they come, you know what i do? i picture liz lemon from 30 Rock, and she shouts "shut it down!" at me. and i shut it down. and you have to keep doing that. ever time. and sometimes liz isn't there, and sometimes i don't hear her. but mostly it works.

[monkeygirl555]

you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real.


First post - just read this and wow... .

in a nutshell.

camouflaged chameleons.

[DyingLove]

All this talk.  Pearls in everything! Wisdom and logic and maturity.

I miss Florida. What do I miss about it:  Palm Trees, beautiful beautiful Palm Trees!  From day one, I just admired everyone of them that I saw.  They make Florida look so exotic, so untouchably rich.  I miss the Weather. Warm ALL THE TIME. No worries about shoveling snow and slipping on ice and rotting cars.  I didn't have a car, and still don't, but you can have a 2000 chevy malibu with no rust on it anywhere. Of course the car looked like a pig stye, but still without rust or corrosion!

I really think once I made the trek to Florida from NY, I realized a bunch of things. First I've never flown, and secondly I've never ventured to a place that far off to live.  So I found out how big some of our world is, that I can make changes in my life, that I was going to not only have the final most wonderful relationship in my entire life, the one that I go to the grave with, but I was going to have it in a place that would be easy on me.  Well, it was ALMOST the place I went to the grave with. But not for natural causes.

The ex never really made me feel that I belonged. It was always THEM and me.  I always felt like I dropped my life, everything I had, and started participating in HER LIFE. Running with the bulls.  I never truly felt comfortable, she never gave me that.

I didn't expect or think about the fact that I was not assisted in my acclimation to Florida, I just did not think that way.  But NOW I feel like with the right person at my side, Florida would have and probably still would, be my home.  I feel now like I was just a visitor and there was so much that I was wanting to feel.  I love the ocean, and beaches, but it took her 8 months to get me to one.  Remember that I had no car, nor any traveling ability and directional sense. NOR did I actually have the focus to look into these things myself because I was either trying to take care of the family, stressed, working on the relationship, all the above.  Feels like I was just starting on a meal and I had that fork of food headed to my mouth, and someone just keep pushing the fork away from my mouth.  It was all there and it was just a big "tease".  Look but don't touch, touch but don't keep, keep but put it back it's not yours.

So I really miss those things.  It's hard to separate it all from the people, but I feel almost as if I have to rush to the airport, hop a plane, go to Florida and just say- I'm here.  But now what?  I'm there but there is nothing!  It's much too early to be tearing up.

I don't miss the grief and baggage that she had.  She was a good looking car that ran like crap and was just a constant repair job.  I don't have all her crap, and I see how much she had, I have practically ZERO, it all stayed there because it was hers.  So how could I not be ahead of the game!  I should be out on the road doing the happy dance, but why am I not?  Why has my life gone to pieces?

[DyingLove]

you're right about the camouflage tho. at the time, i really felt i was getting a lot, because when they shine their borderline light on you, it's so bright it blinds you. and that's the thing. it blinds you. because that light is only ever a flash - it seems to last longer because it blinds you. leaves you blinking and stumbling around. but that's not a relationship. it's not real.


First post - just read this and wow... .

in a nutshell.

camouflaged chameleons.

Yep, almost like taking a hersheys kiss and putting it in a bag, and that in a bigger bag and so on and so on until you are putting it in a box and shipping it on a cargo ship!  I never saw it coming and I still question if it was me or her or me or her or me or her... .

[fromheeltoheal]

I was in Miami in August once Dying.  How the hell do they do it?  I felt like I was going to melt.  But beautiful when the sun goes down a little and the beer is cold.  Guess it's an acclimation thing.

I felt the way you did towards the entire state of Texas, a very big place, and I wasn't going to let 1 person out of 27 million screw up the entire state for me, so I went back, and back again, until I could love the state but not necessarily everyone in it again.  Florida is great in the winter, especially as an escape from the chilly north; maybe time to plan a pilgrimage?

[DyingLove]

I was in Miami in August once Dying.  How the hell do they do it?  I felt like I was going to melt.  But beautiful when the sun goes down a little and the beer is cold.  Guess it's an acclimation thing.

I felt the way you did towards the entire state of Texas, a very big place, and I wasn't going to let 1 person out of 27 million screw up the entire state for me, so I went back, and back again, until I could love the state but not necessarily everyone in it again.  Florida is great in the winter, especially as an escape from the chilly north; maybe time to plan a pilgrimage?

You kinda summed it up there fromheeltoheal.  You weren't going to let 1 person out of 27 million screw p the entire state for you.  I am glad to know that it's not only me, and others do feel this way, or get in a situation to feel this way.  There is comfort in that.  I'm just learning to take back songs, movies, places we went together, etc.  This is not easy stuff but it can be done with a little effort.  I did go into walmart on Sunday without thinking of the ex at all.  I think that was a first. :-)

[rotiroti]

The ex never really made me feel that I belonged. It was always THEM and me.  I always felt like I dropped my life, everything I had, and started participating in HER LIFE. Running with the bulls.  I never truly felt comfortable, she never gave me that.

Wow dying love that described my situation perfectly. Thinking back I realize that I never once felt welcome in my own home. It's the worst feeling like an unwanted guest under your own roof.




all this talk of beaches is making me want to drive to one today haha

you have to be constantly on your guard. NC means, also, you have to squash any thoughts of your BPDex. when they come, you know what i do? i picture liz lemon from 30 Rock, and she shouts "shut it down!" at me. and i shut it down. and you have to keep doing that. ever time. and sometimes liz isn't there, and sometimes i don't hear her. but mostly it works.

wullie, that's a great point. I'm using n/c pure as a contact restriction, but I know I also have to squash all thoughts and keep away from social media and everything. Letting go of everything to move so to speak. I'm struggling with letting go, but it's a work in progress. Thanks for your input and love the bit about the camouflage flash. Powerful stuff

[DyingLove]

Wow dying love that described my situation perfectly. Thinking back I realize that I never once felt welcome in my own home. It's the worst feeling like an unwanted guest under your own roof.

Yep, there were times that even in the house I felt that coldness and disconnection from everyone.  At first if I got too close to the child, she resented that. I was being too much more of a parent than she was.  Lord knows that her and the childs father were not the greatest parents.  God forbid you criticize someones parenting skills! I didn't but I tried being the best parent figure to the kid.  It made a difference in the child, but no one cared that I was good for her.