He thinks I'm clingy

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Hi

   My ex and I broke up months ago, and had a couple of uncomfortable interactions  recently.  When I texted him to get some details about why he actually left me, he said he had no reason.  I had stopped by unannounced to pick up some CD's and he got upset, felt engulfed. I apologized and realize it was wrong not to set up the visit in advance.

   When I texted him, he told me that because I had asked him for details on the breakup, I am "clingy and won't let go"... .although that's partly true that I have trouble letting go, I am thinking that a visit and a couple of texts in the months after breakup is hardly "clingy"... .and I have not initiated getting back together, just getting my stuff back!

     Does it sound like he is right?

      Or is it his projection?

      Or his fear (since he fears engulfment) and his extreme black and white views,  so a couple of contacts in all these months is "clingy" in his mind?

     I am feeling nervous, because a cell phone line we shared is cancelling soon, and I was thinking of  contacting  him  with my new contact info... .I am afraid he might see this as "clingy" too!

[shatra]

Hi

   My ex and I broke up months ago, and had a couple of uncomfortable interactions  recently.  When I texted him to get some details about why he actually left me, he said he had no reason.  I had stopped by unannounced to pick up some CD's and he got upset, felt engulfed. I apologized and realize it was wrong not to set up the visit in advance.

   When I texted him, he told me that because I had asked him for details on the breakup, I am "clingy and won't let go"... .although that's partly true that I have trouble letting go, I am thinking that a visit and a couple of texts in the months after breakup is hardly "clingy"... .and I have not initiated getting back together, just getting my stuff back!

     Does it sound like he is right?

      Or is it his projection?

      Or his fear (since he fears engulfment) and his extreme black and white views,  so a couple of contacts in all these months is "clingy" in his mind?

     I am feeling nervous, because a cell phone line we shared is cancelling soon, and I was thinking of  contacting  him  with my new contact info... .I am afraid he might see this as "clingy" too!

[SummerStorm]

I think a lot of it is projection, mixed with inability to take responsibility, topped with feelings of shame.

When I tried to talk to my former friend about anything serious, she said I was clingy and that all I ever wanted to do was talk about serious things. This was usually after she did something bad and was feeling shame.

When she got out of the hospital, I told her that we should hang out, and she ignored me.  Eventually, she accused me of being clingy.

[Turkish]

Take it at face value that what he says is how he feels. If it were presented to 99 other people, say, who might tell you, "no, shatra, you're not being clingy, he's ridiculous," it doesn't bear on his feelings. They are what they are. He sees the world as he sees it. Can you finish the business side of things and detach?

[shatra]

Yes Summer, it may be partly projection.

Turkish wrote

If it were presented to 99 other people, say, who might tell you, "no, shatra, you're not being clingy, he's ridiculous," it doesn't bear on his feelings. They are what they are. He sees the world as he sees it. Can you finish the business side of things and detach?

==== Yes, clearly it is his feeling... .I was actually asking for an objective look from outsiders, as a reality check for me. Does a couple of contacts in months equal being clingy?  If so, I'll know he's accurate, if not I'll know it's his projection or shame.  He may see the world as he sees it, but I am confused by his view, as I don't feel clingy.

=====I'm not looking to detach right now.  I am wondering if my giving him my new contact info would likely (as a BPD) be seen as clingy, or as wanting to reunite.

[Mutt]

Hi shatra,

I understand. I think many members can relate with wanting a sensible and reasonable answer when a pwBPD break-up with us? Are you looking for closure from your ex? You were with him for several years.

When I texted him to get some details about why he actually left me, he said he had no reason.

Does contact in a couple of months seem clingy or is your ex being passive aggressive? Is your ex the demure borderline type?

When I texted him, he told me that because I had asked him for details on the breakup, I am "clingy and won't let go"... .although that's partly true that I have trouble letting go

It sounds like he's withdrawing and casting himself in the victim role.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Shatra,

It sounds like a way to avoid thinking about your question or getting into a discussion about it, it you ask me. If my reading on boundaries was correct, we are perfectly entitled to not answer questions about our feelings which means pwBPD have that right too and pushing for this information is boundary busting. Now, I'm not saying you were doing that and it doesn't sound like you were being clingy either but perhaps his assessment is based upon his past experience of you, or perhaps it is mainly projection. The thing is, we can never know how our BPD significant others experience things but we can choose to validate ourselves (because we know our own motivation and they don't have ready access to that information) rather than buy into their interpretations of us.

Love Lifewriter

[Lucky Jim]

I'm not looking to detach right now.  I am wondering if my giving him my new contact info would likely (as a BPD) be seen as clingy, or as wanting to reunite.

Hey Shatra, It sounds like you are interested in a recycle, right?  If so, that's OK.  I find your post interesting because usually the pwBPD is deemed the clingy one in the r/s, because of their fear of abandonment.  Of course, their pulling, clingy side is usually balanced by a pushing side.  It sounds like your Ex is in the pushing away mode.  If so, I suggest patience, as the pendulum is likely to swing in the other direction.

LuckyJim

[shatra]

Thanks for the feedback;

Mutt---

  He doesn't seem demure, he is a waif borderline.  Very sensitive to being engulfed. 

  No, to me a couple of contacts within all these months does not seem clingy at all. I was shocked when he texted that. Putting myself outside the situation, If I heard someone say "clingy" after minimal contact in all this time, whether they were BPD or not, I would think they were either projecting, or they were extremely reactive to misinterpreting any contact to pick up belonings as "clingy"

Lifewriter---

It sounds like a way to avoid thinking about your question or getting into a discussion about it, it you ask me. If my reading on boundaries was correct, we are perfectly entitled to not answer questions about our feelings which means pwBPD have that right too and pushing for this information is boundary busting.

-----When we discussed it, he just said it's "not working even though I love you", and gave no practical reason at all.    TO not talk about the reason for the breakup after a relationship of several years, to me does not fall into the category of being entitled to not answer questions about our feelings... .it's similar to getting fired after doing well on a job for 20 years----are they entitled to fire you and not give the reason? Perhaps, but it's really not right.  I wouldn't think an employee asking questions about it is boundary busting.

Lucky Jim,

   Yes he has been clingy in the past and now is pushing me away as you said.  I am nervous about it, because when I give him the new cell phone contract info, I fear he may see that as "clingy" or holding on to him also

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Shatra,

Just to be clear, I didn't intend to say I think you were boundary busting. It sounds like you thought that was what I meant. If so, my apologies. I do think it's not fair to fail to give a fuller explanation, but perhaps he can't explain because he doesn't really understand what's really going on for him or he just can't justify his behaviour. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that most BPD behaviours are simply a pretense or a cover-up for what's really going on beneath the surface. They act as they do (and perhaps we do too) because they are desperately running away from their pain. Perhaps that is why he doesn't want to explain.

Lifewriter x

[shatra]

Lifewriter wrote

perhaps he can't explain because he doesn't really understand what's really going on for him or he just can't justify his behaviour. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that most BPD behaviours are simply a pretense or a cover-up for what's really going on beneath the surface. They act as they do (and perhaps we do too) because they are desperately running away from their pain.

   Yes, though I didn't feel it was boundary busting to ask questions about the breakup, he might have felt that way----he just didn't have a reason to give, and thinks it's odd that I would ask?   You are right, he might have just been running away from the pain of getting closer, or assuming I would leave him so he broke up with me first... .or maybe as you wrote he "doesn't really understand what's really going on for him"

Thanks

Shatra

[Sunfl0wer]

In all fairness shatra, many of our partners cannot accurate express what they are feeling.  (Like you and Lifewriter have said) They are especially overwhelmed by others feelings, as well as their own.  This often leads them to not speak honestly about their reasons for doing things as they often lack the insight.  Sometimes pressing these people when they have no words to explain, just leads them to make stuff up.  (Or also like you said, he feels he cannot defend it)

As much as we may feel entitled to a reason for the b/u of a r/s, many of us just do not get this from the mouth of our partners.  Many of our partners just cannot relate at all to what we may be feeling, or our perspectives. (Let alone their own)

Do you think you maybe expecting more from him than he is capable of?

Are you wanting an honest insightful response from him?

My experience has been that my partner cannot relate to me having emotional needs at all, and it greatly frustrated him, even angered him. (He was patient and attentive that first year tho). He therefore made up a reason in his mind for our b/u: Me.  I am not sure this "insight" of his did anything at all for my own peace.

[enlighten me]

Hi sunflower

You said your partner cannot relate to your emotional needs.

I get this and have thought about it a bit in the past. I think its not so much a case that they cant relate but more of they don't know what to do. It becomes easier for them to ignore a problem than to face up to it. Ive read and experienced lots of these scenarios from the partner having a bereavement or bad day at work or is ill. It seems like they have no empathy but we know they can be empathic. So it either boils down in my opinion that you don't matter so they don't care or you do matter and they don't know how to make it better.

Just my opinion.

[Sunfl0wer]

Yes, enlighten me.  Thank you for clarifying, i agree.  He could empathize.  I feel it was more a case of not knowing what to do.  He wanted to fix the problem so it wouldn't exist.  I wanted the problem to exist a bit, so I could experience my feelings before I resolve it.  He acted like me having any bad feelings reflected on him.  I think he often felt a failure when confronted with any of my negative feelings vs understanding all feelings are ok and normal for a period.

Often he had empathy, however, often he did not understand a perspective.  Sometimes when he did understand, he tried to make it not exist and responded by ignoring till it goes away, or lashing out.

Edit: often the issue was me feeling like any feeling besides complete adoration of him was not a welcome feeling.  My feelings were more than a burden to him.  Which made me resentful and made me want to have MORE negative feelings.

[Sunfl0wer]

Looking back at my past two posts... .

I see in my first, I am thinking about the end of the r/s.  His capacity was limited for empathy towards me after he painted me very black.

The second post is speaking of him in general terms.

I think that when the end of the r/s was near, his perception and ability to have a clue about what I likely was feeling was quite impaired!

He must have told himself what he needed to try to detach.  I imagine he told himself some story that I am abusive, a monster of sorts... .to cope with leaving me.  So, yes, during this time, if he saw tears of grieve on me, he'd misinterpret and his paranoia would lend him to think they were tears of manipulation vs pain.  So in that situation, empathy was unlikely.

[enlighten me]

Hi sunflower

I'd like to say that it is only my opinion based on my feelings. Sometimes we have to find something that's a comfortable fit to move on. For me this is my mental version of cotton baggies and flip flops. May not look the best but feels good to wear.

Hi Shatra Sorry don't want to hijack your post.