Damn- so glad I found this site

[madison46]

Is it really like talking to a wall with these BPD suffer's?  I mean, I don't know how many times I would argue with the ex over what I considered easy to follow time lines.  Sequence of events.  Latest example, since we are separated and headed for divorce, is :

BPD:  you are inflexible with trading days [ie visitation day's with son]

Me:  Name one

BPD: I'm always flexible, 'you not so much'  [like an idiot and the other 15 years, I fell into the trap]

Me:  I traded a week in April when you traveled.  A weekend in May so you could take him to XYZ, the first week in June, and another time when you traveled.  You requested time switch for Labor day to take him to D.C. and I switched.  Only time was when football season started and he [he is 17] didn't want to switch.

BPD: [like nothing I said registered] You refuse to trade days.

Me:  I just told you when and how many I did.  You don't get every one on your wish list. Sometimes I'm sure he'd like to have a steady schedule

BPD: Look, I'm flexible with all your requests.  I let him come down to workout. Watch games.  Maybe I'll 'reconsider' that

Me:  influence Him to not come down, and I'll have you in court in 24hrs.

BPD: I never had a problem in three years.  I'm flexible.  You aren't.

This is my life... .when we disagreed married and any conflict separated.  I'm not wired for this.  WHY can't they follow a sequence of events?  5 of her 6 requests since April, I've gone along with.  I left the other one up to my son, since she pulls the 'well it will have been 6 days since I've seen you' crap on him.  I just told him I like a steady schedule, but it was up to him.  He chose to stay.  it was opening Thursday of College football.

My gawd it's like you argue with a wall, then go in a circle.  I don't get it.  :)rives me bonkers to be 'charged' with something, but facts seem to tell another story, but it won't sink in.  WTH?  Makes my head hurt.

Of course, she tells me I have BPD.  Heck, I may be co-dependent at the least because it isn't easy walking away.  I'm forcing myself to.  I need a little common sense.  I need a little more mature arguing and problem solving.  I need some warmth.  I need some steady rather than a roller coaster.

Anyway, if you can't get through, what should I tell myself to stop from getting drug into 'the loop'?

[jinnymvp]

Welcome Madison, I said the exact same thing when I found this gem.

I can relate, in my relationship I felt like I was talking to a wall. I barely got any feedback or input and he just wasn't present. It is very frustrating and I too felt we would talk in circles. Or my favorite he would have all these ideas and plans stating of what he was going to do and not do even ONE of them. Very tiring.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Hi Madison46,

I can relate to what you are going through. Just felt a need to pen some thoughts, sorry if they aren't really helpful:

1. Don't get on the rollercoaster if you don't like it. You really don't have to.

2. Don't let the other person push your buttons. You actually have a choice, accept or deny what they say. It is how you process their inputs that determines the output.

3. At some point in our life, we have to do what is best of ourselves. It is the analogy of putting on your own oxygen mask before attempting to help others.

4. Recognise your own thoughts and feelings. Many times I have done things just to avoid an uncomfortable situation, which ended up making me even more uncomfortable. I had a brief talk to someone about this, and his words still ring in my ears: "Take the fallout". Sometimes avoidance is the right way to go, sometimes it is not.

5. This is point 1 again. Don't get on the carousel and you won't be in the loop; walk away. This is not abandonment, it is about making a well thought out decision and taking positive action.

[enlighten me]

The simple thing to say when they are like this is "Im sorry you feel that way".

Your interaction was a classic JADE. Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.

One thing that has helped me with my exs is thinking about their emotional maturity and comparing it to a child.

I know its not its not 100% correct but it takes the edge off for me.

Instead of an adult stood in front of you saying these things think of it as a six year old.

"Your not fair you wont let me do what I want to do"

A child doesn't have the same sense of fairness as an adult. They don't like to share. A child doesn't see what you've done in the past only what they want now.

"I want a sweet"

"But you had one an hour ago!

"But I want one now!"

As I say its not a 100% accurate portrayal of what is really going on but it puts it in a way I can relate to and deal with.

[once removed]

The simple thing to say when they are like this is "Im sorry you feel that way".

Your interaction was a classic JADE. Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.

"im sorry you feel that way" frequently goes further than most give it credit for. when she stated her complaint you immediately challenged it with "name one". what follows is a back and forth based on that.

i dont mean to scold you. its called a circular argument. ive been in many, plenty by choice. you want to deescalate. being self aware is the best way, and you are the only one you can control in this situation.

something i did frequently when my ex would offer what in my view were irrational complaints, was invalidate them. the more things escalated, the more invalidating i was, frequently. i get it. you keep hoping the next bullet proof argument will get through and youll be on the same page. it more often than not makes things worse. stand back, validate, you might be surprised.

coordinating trading days may be extremely challenging, that may always be the case. there are legal maneuvers for such a situation, but best to use them without threat of using them.

it will help you tremendously in the long term to learn the communication techniques in the mean time. both in terms of achieving your goals and lowering the stress that comes with communication. whether what to do, like SET and BIFF, and what not to do like JADE.

id like to add to the list lifeisbeautiful started. be outcome oriented. dont need to win. avoid convincing or getting through. accept that her reality is her reality and it is valid. its going to feel awkward, then it will feel more natural, and then you will likely see some benefit 

[madison46]

Your interaction was a classic JADE. Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.

"im sorry you feel that way" frequently goes further than most give it credit for. when she stated her complaint you immediately challenged it with "name one". what follows is a back and forth based on that.

i dont mean to scold you. its called a circular argument. ive been in many, plenty by choice. you want to deescalate. being self aware is the best way, and you are the only one you can control in this situation.

Gawd, me too... .soo many circular arguments.  I've just now, after 15 yrs of marriage and 3 yrs apart found out about BPD and NPD.  I searched for Narcissist and silent treatment and found out about BPD and NPD.  So this is new and enlightening.  I'm just not wired for such illogic... not right now

something i did frequently when my ex would offer what in my view were irrational complaints, was invalidate them. the more things escalated, the more invalidating i was, frequently. i get it. you keep hoping the next bullet proof argument will get through and youll be on the same page. it more often than not makes things worse.

 

Gawd part 2.  I never get through.  I could itemize everything and not get through.  Is horrible way to communicate and live as an adult let alone as an adult in relationship.

it will help you tremendously in the long term to learn the communication techniques in the mean time. both in terms of achieving your goals and lowering the stress that comes with communication. whether what to do, like SET and BIFF, and what not to do like JADE.

I guess... .and here I thought I was going to avoid all therapist 'ways to communicate' stuff.

id like to add to the list lifeisbeautiful started. be outcome oriented. dont need to win. avoid convincing or getting through. accept that her reality is her reality and it is valid. its going to feel awkward, then it will feel more natural, and then you will likely see some benefit 

I really have to avoid the 'convincing' part.  Just hard when you are worried about what they will try to do in court.  Once court is over with, I think I'll breath easier and better practice what you are suggesting.  But it's good advice.  Just so damn hard when it's so convoluted what they are saying... .

Thanks

[purekalm]

Can't say I'm good at advice, currently about to start a separation with my husband, undiagnosed but no question he has it.

But anyways, I have a quicker wit than him and he gets easily angered (by everything) but when I prove his points invalid or anything of the like, it then becomes an argument of I think he's stupid and putting words in my mouth to tell me how he feels about himself, BUT putting all the blame on me. It's very messed up.

I have a little more practice thanks to my dad, also undiagnosed. What helps me is to realize I'm not gonna get anywhere but more stressed out than I already am. As soon as he starts the circles I'm literally like, whatever. LOL He hates that word now. Seriously though, that's all I gotta say because I'm so done with it all anyways.

Everybody is different and will react accordingly, but realizing that it's not even a battle, just another stress I don't need helps me to avoid it. You know you are completely vaild and right in your thinking, but trying to prove it to that person with BPD is like talking to a wall asking it to move. It ain't gonna. It just won't. It's frustrating to accept, infuriating really, but it's something you'll have to think about and come to a conclusion on.