A few open questions for y'all...

[problemsolver]

Every once and a while I like to pick people's brain about how they perceived things... So I have a few questions

1)Do you think the person with BPDs family members believe them? Example... If she says I'm crazy do you think the family members take it with a grain of salt ... Almost like the boy who cried wolf? Or do they believe?

ex... If I'm the 5th stalker / pyscho dude she's encountered in her early 20's does her family look at her or me as the wrong party?

2) Regardless of what you do a BPD relationship will collapse? And it's all based off idealization and "hater" phase... So I'm curious to know at one point does everyone go black in their life?does meeting their needs allow you longer idolize period?

3) Do you feel your relationship was superficial / fake? Or do you believe he or she loved you?

4) How long into the relationship before you started walking on egg shells?

5)Did they mimick your interests? Ex favorite color, deep thoughts etc... .

thoughts?

[Herodias]

1) They probably know their child has issues. I know parents that took the NAMI classes new it was their child with the problems and saw them go through lots of relationships. My husbands Mother didn't believe anything he said and his Father tried to think the best.

2) I am not sure I totally understand the black thing, but I have known mine for 9 years. We haven't seen each other in 2 months, but he texts me when he puts money in the bank for me and says " I hope you are well"... .this last time I did't respond considering it was at 2:30am. It's hard to meet all their needs, but it may be so.

3)I think he loved me at some point in it- not the beginning and not the end... .but more like I was a caretaker. Sometimes it just felt it was fake when I realize how it ends.

4)They say about 6 months in the mask slips... .I ignored red flags... .I think there were little things that crept in at that point. I really felt it once we were married.

5) I know for sure they mirror us! Mine tried to be everything I wanted. Now with his new gf, he acts just like her! Her hobbies and political views... .also picked up her accent! With me, I was more like his family to begin with... .but he did have his own hobbies, favorite foods and colors.

Hope that helps!

[sangreal]

Every once and a while I like to pick people's brain about how they perceived things... So I have a few questions

1)Do you think the person with BPDs family members believe them? Example... If she says I'm crazy do you think the family members take it with a grain of salt ... Almost like the boy who cried wolf? Or do they believe?

ex... If I'm the 5th stalker / pyscho dude she's encountered in her early 20's does her family look at her or me as the wrong party?

2) Regardless of what you do a BPD relationship will collapse? And it's all based off idealization and "hater" phase... So I'm curious to know at one point does everyone go black in their life?does meeting their needs allow you longer idolize period?

3) Do you feel your relationship was superficial / fake? Or do you believe he or she loved you?

4) How long into the relationship before you started walking on egg shells?

5)Did they mimick your interests? Ex favorite color, deep thoughts etc... .

thoughts?

1: She has a pride/pride relationship paradox with her mother. She doesnt open herself up, but her mother doesnt either. I said go ahead even though what happened in the past you are still her daughter. And family is the most important thing. And I asked if she really wants to do it. That if she really wants to be by her side. Both her parents are cancer. His father is just flat out cut sending her money and she doesnt have a consistent job. Has to sell and buy drugs, and many other things to gain money. She saw her mother when I talked trough about it. But said to me it was all fake. I think they know what shes up to even though she told me they dont... .But they stay away I think. I dont know if they are guilty in anything or not. But she keeps their pictures and once she cried when she looked up on it. Very sad.

2:  I was the white god for 9 months. Told me that she wants to deserve me, be the woman I deserve, that I am her sanctuary, that she loves me so deeply she is scared because Im always on her mind. I said no... no. Ok I may be higher than you in many aspects but Im also lower than you in many things too. I dont want to be deserved. Im not a saint. Then she said ok... .I thought I was a mortal but she painted me god again... .and for this reason when we finally met I became the devil. the abuser the destroyer.  This doesnt stop me for still going on.

I will then make her know that and set a boundary solid on the ground that I dont want to be idolized. Of course it will be hard but she has to know and get used to it.

Just gonna make a revolution on her very system.

3: Almost anyone around her are just useless drugheads without a single solid usefeullness to anything around them. Fake empty shallow people. Only I was different. And she knew this. Its real. Real as it gets.

4: ... .it was very strange. She said shes always attracted to people that destroy themselves like the drugheads. Then said shes sorry but we have to separate. Then I convinced her. About 2 months... .

5: It was already very close when we met. Our hobbies and interests. And I loved it because I know that kind of behavior. That was the only thing she didnt idolise about me. She didnt need it.

[movingon6]

Hi,

Thanks for these questions, I wonder about some of them too. 

My thoughts are that I do think eventually most hit the "hater phase".  My husband was nicer when I was willing to be a caretaker.  When that got to be too much for me and I started setting boundaries, he got very ugly.

I too wonder if they can really love. In some ways, yes. But I think it is often all about them and whether or not you are meeting their needs.  If you make them feel good and meet their needs, then they feel love.  It's not a genuine love where someone really cares about the well-being of another person, in my opinion.   I think it's hard for them to love someone else because it's hard to love themselves.  They are like a black hole.

My husband got much much worse after we got married (about 2 years after meeting).  In hindsight, there were some red flags earlier that I didn't really understand. But nothing like how he was after marriage. He got much much worse after the committment went deeper.

Yes, he mimicked my interests.  I didn't realize it at the time -- but I see it now when he is pursuing other relationships.  He tries to figure out what they want and then presents himself that way. It's creepy!

[Michelle27]

Every once and a while I like to pick people's brain about how they perceived things... So I have a few questions

1)Do you think the person with BPDs family members believe them? Example... If she says I'm crazy do you think the family members take it with a grain of salt ... Almost like the boy who cried wolf? Or do they believe?

ex... If I'm the 5th stalker / pyscho dude she's encountered in her early 20's does her family look at her or me as the wrong party?

I don't know.  I know they have come to his "rescue" before, and again now, paying for his lawyer in my divorce.  I know his former step mom, now divorced from his father, totally understands my perspective as she saw similar behaviors in her husband, hence the divorce.  She is still in contact with me, but not with her former son in law. 

2) Regardless of what you do a BPD relationship will collapse? And it's all based off idealization and "hater" phase... So I'm curious to know at one point does everyone go black in their life?does meeting their needs allow you longer idolize period?

I went out of my way to meet his needs, even trying to change who I was.  Almost lost myself in the process.  I am blacker than black now that he knows that there's no hope anymore for us (or rather, for me to continue feeding his needs).

3) Do you feel your relationship was superficial / fake? Or do you believe he or she loved you?

I think he believed he loved me.  But I don't think he was truly capable of mature love. 

4) How long into the relationship before you started walking on egg shells?

It was quite a while.  We seemed ok for about 5 years.  Until we had a child and then got married.  And other family issues (his son from first marriage was sexually abused).  But looking back now, there were definite red flags that I ignored because I didn't know what I know now.

5)Did they mimick your interests? Ex favorite color, deep thoughts etc... .

Oh Lord, yes.  Music tastes, clothing tastes, food and drink... .you name it. 

thoughts?

I'm honestly glad I went through what I did.  That I learned so much about human behavior (and motives) and about myself.  But it was hell for most of a decade. 

[Mutt]

Hi problemsolver,

1. I'm using my exe's family as an example, I think that it's different for different families and it's not to say to take my example.

I get the impression that her family enables her behaviors and that her family members are enmeshed, they don't know where one person ends and the other person begins.

I think that they are protective of their daughter and often side with her like many family members would, but I can see how they've seen patterns and are likely used to her behaviors.

2. A sufferer of BPD has different characteristics and traits, severity along a continuum and everyone is different with their unique personality. BPD is a persecution complex and the person will relinquish control at the onset of the r/s and resentment is often building during the course of the r/s.

If we hold the position of persecutor for too long, a pwBPD will emotionally collapse. I think that it can depend on our personalities and how we may trigger our partners, I can see how a r/s is difficult to maintain with one person and different with somebody else.

3. I believe that she did love me. We were both soothing life long emotional wounds and I believe that I became a trigger, a sufferer of BPD need a lot of validation and you have to be gentle, we often had terrible fights.

4. I met her and within a few months we moved in together and within three months she felt engulfed, intimacy triggers the disorder.

5. I recall her mirroring my values and not so much gestures. I do recall that she was clearly mirroring one of her friends, a mutual friend. She was using the same inflection as her friend with speech, body gestures, interests etc... .

I hope that helps.

[hollycat]

Hello!

1.  I know for a fact my BpdH's mother and brother know he lies. I have spoken to both.

2.  I do believe all Borderline relationships will fail. I started out as the Goddess and now I am the abusive, neglectful, despicable lying thief.

3. I absolutely believes Husband loves me as much as it is possible for him to love anyone. He cannot feel pleasure; even so, there are still times I can make him laugh.  The last time I saw him, he said: Love you first. He had nothing to gain to say it as he was going back to his place (550 miles away from me).

4.  About 2 months after we met, I made a joke and he totally flipped on me. I never saw a grown person act the way he did. So after that, I became more careful and watchful about what I said.

5.  Husband came to me with an unusual set of interests like skateboarding and air rifles. He maintains those today.  He never did pick up my interest in antiques but he did grow to like my cat and Pomeranians.  Now I think of it, I do believe there were times he would mirror my blinks and breathing as we talked.  He has no friends and will admit I am the person he has spent the most time with.

[FannyB]

1) Her kids don't have a problem with me post-break-up and her best friend still chats to me. I did tell her friend that it would have fallen apart whatever I did and she said 'I know'.  Therefore I conclude that they know she has issues! 

2) Not everyone goes black. If you manage to skate that fine line between engulfment and abandonment fear you can stay 'white' indefinitely. Men come and go, but my ex has had the same best friend for 20 years. Lots she hasn't told her though as 'she wouldn't understand'. 

3) Both. It was fake as it had no real chance of being sustainable longer term. Real in the sense she truly believed she loved me during the early phase. I don't buy into this 'deception' theory.

4) Probably 8 months in before I realised there was a major problem and I started walking on eggshells.

5) Yes, albeit partly through her son taking up the same hobbies as mine. She had a good sense of humour which strengthened the bond from the outset and allowed me to be me.


Fanny

[Learning Fast]

1---Her immediate family was fairly indifferent to her behavior ("Oh, that's just the was she is".  Also, one of her sisters struggles with a severe substance abuse problem (divorced, lost custody of her kids, etc.) so I believe most of their emotional resources were exhausted on her.

Additionally, her ex is very affluent and simply threw money at the problem.

2---I'm pretty convinced that without commitment to therapy/change the relationship will founder.  You could probably continue catering to their endless needs but would then would sacrifice too much of your own self and become a shell of what you were.

3---She loved me in the way any immature adolescent would love someone---like a serious crush or a massive case of infatuation---very shallow and lacking depth. Once the level of intimacy reached a pressure point she cracked.   In other words she did "love me" but was not "in love with me".

4---I'd say in about 4-6 months as she focused her criticisms/rage on the civil/healthy relationship that I have with my ex (needless to say she does not have the same type of relationship with her ex).

5---Ironically, this is one area where I didn't see alot of mirroring of "me".  She actually had a lot of her own individual tastes, interests and such.  She was much more intent on presenting an image of what she thought I wanted to see.

[SummerStorm]

1) Hard to say with this one.  It probably varies from family to family.  My former friend BPD's mom and stepdad now know that she has BPD (she was diagnosed in June), and mom wants her to get help, but ffBPD is now denying that she needs help.  Prior to her diagnosis, mom knew that there were problems (first suicide attempt happened four years ago), but she also just looked at her as a "pain in the butt."  Mom and stepdad have lived in a different state for the past three years or so, probably when her BPD symptoms were really starting to show (she just turned 23).  According to ffBPD's ex-boyfriend, ffBPD told him that her mom is mad at him for breaking his promise to take care of her, but like I told him, that could just be projection.  Mom might actually be mad at ffBPD for promising to move with her parents and get help.  It's really hard to tell with this whole situation.  ffBPD and her mom have had long periods in the past where they didn't communicate; ffBPD refers to them as "falling outs." 

2) I don't think everyone necessarily goes black.  I think that everyone who gets close to them probably goes black eventually.  Others probably just get tired of being friends with someone as unreliable and flighty as a pwBPD and sort of fade into the background.  Some never get that close to the pwBPD, which means that they never trigger engulfment fears.  When I go back and look at the past two years of profile pics (all I can see on her private account) on her Facebook page and look at who has liked them, there are people who just sort of "disappeared."  There are a few whom I know have been painted black and some who just stopped trying.  Then there are the select handful who never got that close to her and like everything.  Finally, there are the family members who like her posts because she's family.  The really revealing thing is that, when I visit the pages of the people who like her posts, NONE of them have any pictures of her.  They have hundreds of pictures with family and friends, but she isn't in any of them.  Right now, I'm painted black and getting the silent treatment.  And honestly, I think this may be it. 

3) I do think it was pretty superficial, but I wouldn't call it fake.  When she was at her lowest, after trying to commit suicide, I was one of the few people who was given access to call the hospital and get updates.  I was one of the ones she sent a final message to.  And even after she painted me black the first time and told me not to contact her anymore, she signed the card she sent me, "Love always."  Her love isn't normal, and it isn't great, but it is love. 

4) Not long.  We became close friends after knowing each other for about 5 months.  About two months later, the cracks started to show.  The walking on eggshells started right around month 3.  Her physical abuse towards her now ex-boyfriend also came at about month 3, a few weeks after moving in with him.  Her first rage in text towards me came at about month 4.  Being painted black the first time came just after month 5.  The honeymoon period with her really doesn't last long at all. 

5) We did share some of the same interests, mostly TV shows, but she definitely mirrored me.  When we went to see Insurgent, the trailer for Age of Adaline came on and she said, "That looks way too sappy."  But when the movie came out and I said I was going to see it, she told me it looked really good.  She also acted like she likes women's soccer and asked to go to a game with me; that never happened.  She did the same thing with her ex-boyfriend.  He told me that she would seem really into something and then quickly not care about it. 

[jhkbuzz]

I too wonder if they can really love. In some ways, yes. But I think it is often all about them and whether or not you are meeting their needs.  If you make them feel good and meet their needs, then they feel love.  It's not a genuine love where someone really cares about the well-being of another person, in my opinion.   I think it's hard for them to love someone else because it's hard to love themselves.  They are like a black hole.

I think that, although everyone is an individual and everyone is different, that ^ is often true. My ex actually told me once that she doesn't think she's ever really loved anyone.

[sas1729]

These are good questions. Yes, in my experience the family members were aware of something. In the 2.5 years that I was with my ex there was little discussed. In fact, there was only one particular incident in which a family member mentioned to me offhand that something was wrong. But no details. At the time I think I was aware of BPD. My ex was undiagnosed, but everything that I learned about BPD made sense. I don't know if her family was aware; she was very high functioning.

The whole idealization and painting someone black cycle began, in a small way, pretty quickly in my relationship. Actually it was my family that was painted black. I was idealized. A struggle began between my ex and my family, who were deeply hurt (understandably) that their son suddenly was turning against them. It is more complicated than that, but this began within months. As for myself being a target that took several months longer than that. It was a cycle, however, so it never lasted more than a week.

This is a complicated question. What is love? I now feel that what I felt for my ex was nothing near mature love. Nothing near what it would take for a successful relationship, which is built on meeting each others needs and trust. It was puppy love at best. And, in my case at least, I tried very hard to please her, naively so. I sacrificed nearly all of my needs in order to please her. I thought that was love. For the first half of the relationship I truly believed that we were in love. I was thinking about a future with her. The last year, especially after I learned about BPD, I began to realise that it could not work. Then I also realised that I was no longer myself. I had lost a lot of who I am. I pretended around her. So yes, the relationship definitely ended up being fake.

How long before eggshells? I cannot remember exactly. But I know that it was about my family. I had to pretend that I didn't have much contact with them, which was painful. External to my family, such as my own interests and friends, I think what happened was that she tried everything once. Well, not everything. But some things she tried, like a sporting event or meeting a friend. But after trying it once and not liking it, she did not return to those interests. Of course that means that eventually you run out of interests and friends, so most of your life becomes something outside. I think this happened within a year.

So many people have written that yes, their ex tried to mimic them. I experienced something nearly the opposite. Instead of trying to do more things that I liked the opposite happened. Fights happened when I tried to push my interests into the relationship. Sporting events and friends caused fights. Interest in books and movies, if not causing a fight, were pointed out as different. Cuisine. Little about who I am seemed to be actually appealing beyond the fact that I was a nice person. I sacrificed a lot of myself in order to please her. If anything I began to mimic her. So how did she get to me in idealization? She idealized my caring personality. Yes, maybe once in a while a pleasant comment about one of my interests, but nothing along the lines of adopting them as her own. I desperately wanted to be told how nice I am, so this is what she did.

I learned a lot about myself from this relationship. I learned that I crave this kind of reassurance - the reassurance that I'm a nice person and that she won't leave me. We have a future together. Perhaps this is the most valuable lesson for me. I don't think a successful, mature relationship can depend on reassurance entirely. I need to be happy with myself before I can have a mature relationship.