Emotional Incest?

[purekalm]

Hello all,

I just came across an article on here that speaks about emotional incest. I have never heard of that until now. I'd like to as briefly as possible tell what I can and see if it resonates with anybody or can tell me if this is what it is?

So, my older sister was chosen originally by my mother for her best friend, but I think there must have been some type of thing where she couldn't or wouldn't meet her needs and I was next. Well, to be honest I was partly "chosen" by both parents. My mom for a best friend and my dad because I looked so much like my mom to my dad but was "so intelligent, he wishes he could have these conversations with mom" etc. But, my younger sister was ACTUALLY chosen by my dad to be his shadow and learn all kinds of bad stuff from him. You see, I was only pulled in when I was needed. The shadow relationship my sister and dad had made my mom take out most of her anger on her because of course, my dad was always gone.

Both of my parents used me as a sounding board for what they wished the other would do, what they were mad about, the things that they did and didn't like about my siblings, problems with family members and even sexual issues between the two. Sometimes I just about swear that my dad wanted to "be" with me because I looked so much like my mom. The looks he gave me, they totally creeped me out.

It was also hard because they would just shut me out whenever they felt like it and tell me to "go be a kid and stop worrying about grown up stuff" and then pull me back in whenever I was "needed". So, it's like I was also the left out child. My birthday was the only one that never had any fanfare, and because I got good grades and didn't cause trouble even less attention was paid to me because "oh we don't have to worry about her." This led to an ulcer by the time I was a teenager because everything was on my shoulders, not theirs and I couldn't fix it. I would have crazy dreams where everyone was in danger of death by house fire, snakes, robbers, all kinds. And I would be trying to or actually saving them. Maybe that was my subconscious playing out my "role" for me? 

My dad had a lot of surgeries and pills and dumb doctors and health issues. He would grab the kitchen knife and say he was gonna cut his legs off because he was in so much pain. Say he was gonna kill himself. Call from who knows where and say the same in which my mom would then hand the phone to me to talk him out of it. I know now he had no such notion, but back then, I seriously thought if I didn't "save" him he wouldn't be coming home. My siblings got the phone a couple times, but, it's like it was my duty to watch over my parents, no one else's.

So I grew up never getting any needs met and feeling extremely guilty for even trying. Even now, it's hard for me to ask for help because "I can do it myself". But, I CAN'T do it all myself and I know it. Doesn't make reaching out any easier because it's admitting that I couldn't do it alone, which is unacceptable because that's the way it has to be for me. No one is ever there for me, only me. And unfortunately, that has always been true. Whenever I truly and desperately needed someone, and actually put myself out there in, to me, one of the most vulnerable states I can be in, I have always come out empty handed. No one could be there for me, but I always had to be available for them. It has definitely caused a ton of issues obviously.

But, what do you think? Was it actually emotional incest, or just manipulation, any thoughts?

[Kwamina]

Hi purekalm,

I am very sorry you went through this. A lot of what you describe does sound like emotional incest and/or parentification. You've already seen the article on emotional incest, I suggest you also take a look at another thread on here in which we discuss this subject:

Emotional or covert incest: discussing it and healing from it

It seems both your parents had a hard time respecting boundaries and allowing their kids to be just kids. It is very hard for a child to be emotionally burdened this way.

My dad had a lot of surgeries and pills and dumb doctors and health issues. He would grab the kitchen knife and say he was gonna cut his legs off because he was in so much pain. Say he was gonna kill himself. Call from who knows where and say the same in which my mom would then hand the phone to me to talk him out of it. I know now he had no such notion, but back then, I seriously thought if I didn't "save" him he wouldn't be coming home. My siblings got the phone a couple times, but, it's like it was my duty to watch over my parents, no one else's.

This is just horrible that both your parents put you through this. I can definitely see how events like this would cause you to feel totally responsible for how other people feel. My own older uBPD sister actually would run downstairs, burst into the living room en route to the kitchen and declare that she was now really gonna cut her wrists. This image is burned into my memory, when I think of it, it's just like watching a movie, the memory is so clear. Yet in a way I wasn't even really that shocked at the time because these kinds of sudden extreme behaviors and emotional outbursts were the 'norm' in my family. I gather from your post that you being 'the negotiator' unfortunately was 'the norm' for you growing up.

Considering your parents' behavior and how it has affected you, I suggest you also take a look at our article about fear, obligation and guilt. Here's an excerpt:

... .fear, obligation or guilt ("FOG" are the transactional dynamics at play between the controller and the person being controlled.  Understanding these dynamics are useful to anyone trying to extricate themselves from the controlling behavior by another person and deal with their own compulsions to do things that are uncomfortable, undesirable, burdensome, or self-sacrificing for others.

You can read the entire article here:

Fear, Obligation And Guilt (FOG): How We Allow Loved Ones To Control Us

[daughterandmom]

I would have crazy dreams where everyone was in danger of death by house fire, snakes, robbers, all kinds. And I would be trying to or actually saving them. Maybe that was my subconscious playing out my "role" for me? 

Me too. As well as concentration camp ones after I read Anne Frank. I was always trying to come up with a plan to save everyone for when these things might happen. I'm sorry   I know what a burden it is/was to carry this responsibility. A parent should never do this to a child.

[Sarah girl]

So I grew up never getting any needs met and feeling extremely guilty for even trying. Even now, it's hard for me to ask for help because "I can do it myself". But, I CAN'T do it all myself and I know it. Doesn't make reaching out any easier because it's admitting that I couldn't do it alone, which is unacceptable because that's the way it has to be for me. No one is ever there for me, only me. And unfortunately, that has always been true. Whenever I truly and desperately needed someone, and actually put myself out there in, to me, one of the most vulnerable states I can be in, I have always come out empty handed. No one could be there for me, but I always had to be available for them. It has definitely caused a ton of issues obviously.

But, what do you think? Was it actually emotional incest, or just manipulation, any thoughts?

Wow, I could have written that myself. I can't speak for you, but in my case, I am now in the process of coming to terms with accepting that my BPD mom's behavior was indeed emotional incest. I was her therapist, savior and punching bag all at the same time. She always talked to me about how she wished she never met and married my dad, how death would be a better fate, how everyone around her was inherently evil and two-timing (including me). She also constantly told me that, while she didn't expect anyone else to cherish her and shower her with the love and luxury that she deserves, she expected it from me. And when I didn't live up to what "she deserved" i.e. flowers, expensive restaurants, complete submission, there would be h**l to pay. In the meantime, my brother who was MIA most of the time could do no wrong.

I grew up so disconnected from my owwn feelings that, as a child and young adult, I couldn't even begin to imagine having needs, let alone ever fathoming the possibility of others being there for me. Realizing that you really are on your own regardless of extreme hardship is a lonely and devastating thing. But there is an upside to it. It can also be very empowering. I know now that I'm a very capable and resourceful person. I think you can be proud of yourself for being able to get through even the most difficult circumstances on your own.

I thought that no one was ever there for me either. I came to a point where I didn't want anyone to be there for me because there were always strings attached. However, I'm starting to see that sometimes, there are people who can help. I will always take care of myself and my family but I'm learning how to reach out to the right people. In my case, I didn't have anyone because I was so isolated and alienated from others. There are good people out there. It might not be family, but it can be good friends or even people you work with. Part of breaking free from this toxic enmeshment is stepping out of isolation and being open to new possibilities. You may or may not encounter good people, but in the meantime, you can be proud of your own resourcefulness. It is a daily struggle