Holding onto hope.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have been romantically involved with my girlfriend for 2 yrs. She left her husband a little over two yrs ago. She always wanted a divorce from him but was in fear of him because of his verbal abuse and his threats. Through DBT she has gained some strength and recently started the process of divorce. She struggles big time recently wondering if she has made a mistake (which is prob typical for anyone going through a divorce). It seems that her BPD is very mild, no cutting, suicide attempts, ect. I know in her heart she wants to get better and to move forward with the divorce process. So my question is how do people with BPD (females) handle divorces emotionally? Any thoughts?

[Mr.Camaro68]

I have been romantically involved with my girlfriend for 2 yrs. She left her husband a little over two yrs ago. She always wanted a divorce from him but was in fear of him because of his verbal abuse and his threats. Through DBT she has gained some strength and recently started the process of divorce. She struggles big time recently wondering if she has made a mistake (which is prob typical for anyone going through a divorce). It seems that her BPD is very mild, no cutting, suicide attempts, ect. I know in her heart she wants to get better and to move forward with the divorce process. So my question is how do people with BPD (females) handle divorces emotionally? Any thoughts?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Skip]

People with BPD don't handle stress well. A divorce is a significant stressor.

Can you tell us more?  Are you living together?  Does her husband want to recover the relationship?Was it an affair or are their children (that will add stress to the divorce)?

[Mr.Camaro68]

I understand that divorce is a significant stressor. We aren't living together as I live at my house and she lives in an apartment. I believe her husband does want to reconcile the relationship but he is recently seeing someone else. In the past, every time he starts seeing someone else she seems to panic that he is moving on. She says she doesn't understand why she acts like that because she doesn't want to be with him. I am ashamed and know that it isn't right (as does she) but yes our relationship started off as an affair. We both wish that it wasn't the case but it is. She has two children with him. I do believe she love me very much as I love her. I am from Mn so the start of the divorce is called a dissolution. She has gotten a lawyer and had paperwork started and her lawyer emailed her a couple days ago and said he had signed the paperwork as well so next comes discovery process and how to divide assets. So with him signing he is recognizing its over but I also believe that he would take her back if he could.

Thanks

[Skip]

Is there any dispute regarding the children and where they live? Do they live with her?

[Mr.Camaro68]

He threatens to take the children but wont and she knows that. They currently live with her and he really doesn't see them all that often because he makes up excuses and is with his friends drinking.

[Skip]

You are probably going to be in for a ride - you would be with anyone, but mores here. 

I'd start learning the tools now and laying the foundation for how to deal with her when she is flooded or overwhelmed.  She is probably going to need physical space at times, she will likely grieve and that will be hard to understand. She may need emotional space which will be harder.

If you put pressure on her emotionally for validation or attention, it may cause friction or cause her to question the relationship.

We can help you through it.

How is the relationship now?  Is she moody?  Do you fight?

[Mr.Camaro68]

I have been on a ride for awhile now but I love this girl with all my heart and am not ready to give up. I have researched a lot and do understand that she will need some space both emotionally and physically. When we are together we rarely fight, it sonly in times where she is feeling pressure from her soon to be ex that causes us some friction. She just seems to be so down, shes never overly happy lately. Last night she went out while I watched her kids. She came home really drunk and said how she feels like such a failure and that she feels she will never be happy or loved. I asked her why she drank so much and she said because this week has been so emotionally bad and that with her ex signing the papers she felt like she wanted to go out and forget about the emotions she has had this week. This morning she said she doesn't remember what her and I talked about last night. It was really rough, we didn't fight or anything but I just saw so much negativity come out in her. She has never been that negative towards herself before. I did validate her some and also shared my emotions a small amount. She did warn me that she was going to be in a foul mood and that she was most likely going to say some hurtful things so I didn't push it to much. I did stay at her house last night and she was ok with that and cuddled up next to me.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I met BPDh while he was going through his divorce, and only agreed to date him because I knew he was serious about the divorce, and they'd been separated for a year. It was actually his ex who'd had the affair. I can say that while BPDh seemed to do okay during the divorce, his ex caused us immense problems, and then she turned the kids on us.

I feel BPDh was on his "best behavior"(ie he was faking being a great person) while we were dating, then after we'd married, he became a BPD/NPD nightmare. I read that a lot on here, where pwBPD can hide the traits until they have you hooked(that isn't so in your case though). If your gf is already displaying some traits, just look for it to intensify perhaps later. I didn't even know BPD/NPD was a factor, so you have the advantage of knowing, and going into it with eyes open.

Learn the tools, and know that you are probably going to face huge issues concerning the kids. This is true of most remarriages, and the affair does add fuel to the fire. When I first met BPDh's adult kids, they were HATING on their mother for the divorce, and all the craziness they'd grown up with. I actually(stupid me) encouraged them to forgive her and just have some boundaries with her(but told them it seemed unhealthy to just cut her out of their life). Well, as soon as they took my advice, she managed to turn them on BPDh, and me. No good deed goes unpunished... ..

If you really love her, and want this to work, make full use of the tools, and learn to communicate in ways that don't "trigger" her. Communication is huge, and it's where BPDh and I struggle the most, because I'm a good communicator, and it's his hugest deficit.

[Mr.Camaro68]

Thanks, Ceruleanblue.

I know what your saying and I do love her very deeply. I have learned better ways to communicate with her and I know some of her trigger points and work hard to avoid them. I am also a great communicator but she lacks that as she has never done that in her past relationship or her life. She doesn't understand why communication is so important.

It was a very rough weekend as she didn't want to see me and all. I was hoping to go out with the kids and her for Halloween but it was just another missed holiday in our relationship. Yesterday I decided to give her plenty of space so I didn't really say anything all day. I got a text from her telling me she had intense emotions and she called her counselor for a coaching call and her counselor suggested she does some DBT skills and try to get a good night sleep. I replied to her that I am here for her and that I love her. Got nothing back... hoping she gets over these emotions soon, I miss my sweetheart and feel tired... .

[Skip]

It was a very rough weekend as she didn't want to see me and all. I was hoping to go out with the kids and her for Halloween but it was just another missed holiday in our relationship. Yesterday I decided to give her plenty of space so I didn't really say anything all day. I got a text from her telling me she had intense emotions and she called her counselor for a coaching call and her counselor suggested she does some DBT skills and try to get a good night sleep. I replied to her that I am here for her and that I love her. Got nothing back... hoping she gets over these emotions soon, I miss my sweetheart and feel tired... .

Try not to be wounded at times like this... .it will create more tension... .pwBPD are very perceptive... .you can't hide it so try and shift your attitude a bit.

Giving space is best when its not "in her face". The difference looks like this:

~ Not "in her face": Do you want me to come over.  I don't know. You feeling OK?  I've been wanting to clean my garage, this is a good weekend for it! What is John dressing up as? A bicycle pump. Cool. OK, talk to you soon.

~ "In her face": Do you want me to come over.  I don't know. I was hoping we would go trick or treating - I know John is excited. You can come over if you want. You sound like you need you space. I want you to know I'm here for you - love you - can't wait until you are normal.

In the moment, the best thing to do is get out without tripping anyone of a thousand land mines that are armed.  After you have given her 20% more space than she wanted/needed, she will start pulling you back in. It may take a little time.

[Mr.Camaro68]

Wow,

I thought I was doing very well with how I word things. It's very tough to always be on point with my words. I understand what your saying though when I read it because I think back on how she replies. She has said she always feels pressure from me and guilty If she says no. I tell her she doesn't have to feel guilty and it is ok. I have read so much about BPD, I do wish I would have posted sooner rather than just look at everyone else's posts. This is very helpful.

[Mr.Camaro68]

The last thing you said is hard for me to understand though. I always tell her "I'm here for her and that I love her". How is that telling her that I cant wait for her to be normal? I mean isn't that the consistency that she needs in down times, to know that im not leaving her and that I love her?

[Skip]

She is telling you that you are making her feel guilty and that is giving her pressure.  I anticipated that in my response even before you said it.

Space is not just a physical thing - it very well may be an emotional thing.  If she is emotionally flooded or overwhelmed already, adding to that is not helping.  

Your assumption is that "I'm here for you" is comforting to her. But if she is feeling emotionally crowded, its just more flooding.  Imagine a loving licking dog that won't stop trying to lick your face on a day when you are frustrated about work.  You shoo the dog away but its sits three feet from you staring at you, whimpering a little. All the dog is doing is showing love - but if you are overwhelmed, you really want the dog to go and find a space and be out of site out of mind. No whimpering. No staring. No emotion demands.

Make sense?



There is another issue here, too.  If you are overly sympathetic to her rejecting you, you are validating the invalid and setting a precedent that you probably don't want. Don't let her reject you and then follow that up with 'I love you".  It's much better to redirect the transaction in a way that the end result is not you being a doormat. If you sense the need for space, before she tells you, shift the conversation... .

Right now, she has put up a billboard saying that you are emotionally crowding her. Until you give her 20% more space than she wants, you are that annoying dog.

My suggestion is to cut the time you spend with her in half and do it with no guilt, attitude, door-matting, etc.  That will take a mindset change on your part.  If you still get some indications of space, dial it back some more.

This is not easy.  You have to retool your thinking.  I went through this one time and it took 4 months of very little contact to get things on a good path. When we did make contact, I mad it easy, fun. She eventually started asking for more and I gave her her more, but not too much... .and any sign of overwhelmed I backed it off.

Does this make sense?



This is typically the best path back to her having space for you.

[Mr.Camaro68]

That makes a lot of sense. I will continue to give her the space she needs and only get in contact with her if she gets in contact with me first. I do know though that I cannot live with this for months. I will definitely give her time and space but at some point I will need to pull the plug on the relationship if things don't improve. I mean what is the point of a relationship with someone who doesn't want to talk to you or see you? I usually (her request) send her a reminder everyday at a certain time to take her meds. I simply text her and say reminder, love you. This morning I got an email telling me she already took her meds because she was hungry. Then she writes "I hope you are having a good day and got some sleep last night, I tossed and turned all night" I just wrote back and said im having a decent day and I hope she had a good day as well. then wrote ttyl.

[Mr.Camaro68]

Well, I tired but yesterday she invited me over to her place at dinner and ripped my heart out once again. I am done with this absolute madness. Im hurt very badly but also there is a part of me that is relieved that this ride is finally over. Part of me wants to verbally destroy her but im not that type of person. So I told her I didn't want her to contact me. I have blocked her on all social media, I told her I will not communicate through texts and will get the rest of her stuff to her today. After that I told her I will be blocking her phone number. Now I need to be strong because we all know what comes next. Thanks for all the help everyone.

[Skip]

What happened?

[Mr.Camaro68]

Well this last week has been the same pattern I've recognized every time she is going to break up with me. so im sure its the same ol song and dance. I was prepared for it, I even had all of her stuff in my truck when I went over there. She told me and I just chuckled and said yea I figured. Told her to come get her stuff out of my truck and told her it was over forever. I told her I will not be contacting her or replying to any forms of communication from her. I reminded her what I told her last time then reminded her that this was her choice not mine. Then I left, I stayed calm until I left her place then I broke down, Day one of NC starts today.

[Skip]

Well this last week has been the same pattern I've recognized every time she is going to break up with me. so im sure its the same ol song and dance. I was prepared for it, I even had all of her stuff in my truck when I went over there. She told me and I just chuckled and said yea I figured. Told her to come get her stuff out of my truck and told her it was over forever. I told her I will not be contacting her or replying to any forms of communication from her. I reminded her what I told her last time then reminded her that this was her choice not mine. Then I left, I stayed calm until I left her place then I broke down, Day one of NC starts today.

How many times have you broken up?

[Mr.Camaro68]

I am embarrassed but in the last 2 years we have broken up prob 8 times. Its so hard because I do honestly love her deeply. I also know that I do not want to feel this way anymore though. I have days that I feel strong but I have moments in which I miss her so much. She didn't try to get ahold of me yesterday and I will not try to get ahold of her. My mind knows I need to stop this and move on but my heart hurts. Its such a bad situation because I am unhappy without her but when I am with her I feel so depressed because im constantly nervous for the next episode. Seems like she has robbed me of my happiness, this morning has been a tough morning, im trying to keep busy. I know she will try to contact me at some point and as weird as it is, I miss her and my heart wants that but I almost feel anxiety knowing she will and my mind says ignore her. God I need to be strong in this time and move forward...

[Skip]

Lenny Bruce: I couldn't take it anymore, so I finally did it. After everything, all the misery, the fighting, and the lies, I finally, finally broke away from her.

Steve Allen: How did you do it?

Lenny Bruce: She left me.    

This survey might be interesting to you: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

Its so hard because I do honestly love her deeply. I also know that I do not want to feel this way anymore though. I have days that I feel strong but I have moments in which I miss her so much. She didn't try to get a hold of me yesterday and I will not try to get a hold of her. My mind knows I need to stop this and move on but my heart hurts. Its such a bad situation because I am unhappy without her but when I am with her I feel so depressed because im constantly nervous for the next episode.

OK, here comes the tough love... .you have to get off the drama train... .the one you are the engineer of.  You were ready for drama when you drove over (you had her stuff in your truck). Telling her not to contact you and waiting for her call is also drama.  Whether this works out or fails, go look in the mirror and say "no more self-created drama"

If you are unsure of what drama is, read this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

The bottom line is you can't be weak and you can't be a drama guy when dealing with a drama girl.

If you want to take a no-drama approach to this, say so, and we'll coach on it.  

[Mr.Camaro68]

Yes, please help me.

[Skip]

Can you tell us why you recycle?  What are the breakups about?

[Mr.Camaro68]

I think I recycle because of a few reasons, I truly do care about her and her well being, She is the most beautiful (physically) woman that I have ever been with, I think I fear being alone, I thought I knew who she was under all this but I've figured out BPD is who she is. Our breakups come every time her ex-or whatever husband starts hanging out with another girl and is moving forward without her, or when she is stressed either financially or stressed from her family (mom is definitely and undiagnosed BPD). Thank you for helping me with this and understanding.

[Skip]

Our breakups come every time her ex-or whatever husband starts hanging out with another girl and is moving forward without her, or when she is stressed either financially or stressed from her family (mom is definitely and undiagnosed BPD).

So, its not you.

Maybe, when she stresses, she pulls you into it - "puts the hurt on you". You jump in head first, screaming. The drama provides her some relief, and control.   

Is this possibly what is going on?

[Mr.Camaro68]

That's very possible, because when there is no drama with her family or her ex or finances, there are no worries and everything is fine. So is she trying to transfer the hurt onto me so she can feel in control of her emotions?

[Skip]

That's very possible, because when there is no drama with her family or her ex or finances, there are no worries and everything is fine. So is she trying to transfer the hurt onto me so she can feel in control of her emotions?

To use a football (US) analogy - she through the pass and you caught it and ran it into the end zone. You saw it coming, packed her stuff up and went in head first - even telling her to not contact you any more.

A better way would have been to give her space. Let he sooth herself - not use you.

Now it might not be the scenario we described, it could have been a different form of dysfunctional coping... .maybe she is blaming you for her misfortune and getting rid of you solves the problem... .doesn't matter... .the point it is, you saw it coming, covered yourself in gas, and walked into the fire.

This is not going to help.  You could have just made an excuse for not going over, let her chill and get over her extinction burst (you can read about this in the questions section) , and it might very well have passed by.

It will take some time working here to make these changes an not lose yourself in the process... .

So what do you do in the interim?  

Give her physical and emotional space.  

Maybe send a send a 4 word disarming text (I overreacted yesterday, sorry) - super ambiguous but comforting - and then wait for her to get back to you. Hopefully she won't respond right away - but if she does, don't engage, don't reward bad behavior, don't make drama, just be upbeat. Listen (only) and tell her you will need to think about what she is saying - and then give her space to resolve this herself.

Definitely do share this situation analysis. Don't try to get a commitment on whether you are really broken up.

While that incubates, work with the members hear learning to respond to a emotional stressed out person with BPD traits.  There will be more tough times during the divorce.

Skip

PS: We're not telling you to stay or go - that is decision you need to make and best to make it when you have cooled down too.

[Mr.Camaro68]

Thank you a lot for the advice. I've decided I want to give it a few days to really think things through. While I am hurting, I don't know if I truly do want to stay in this relationship anymore. Things just always seem to happen and drama always follows. I don't know if trust will ever be in our relationship because of the series of events from our past. I absolutely don't want to be in a 20yr relationship and end up divorced and lonely. I'm thinking it just best to cut ties. I will always love her and remember the great times we had. So I will give it over the weekend (with NC) and if my feelings on Monday are the same, then I will be moving forward without her. At this point im just to exhausted to fight for us anymore... .

[Skip]

So I will give it over the weekend (with NC) and if my feelings on Monday are the same, then I will be moving forward without her. At this point im just to exhausted to fight for us anymore... .

You could send her the text (which will start defusing her burn, rather than fueling it) and you could take 2 weeks or more to sort out what you want to do while her burn slows down and extinguishes. In other words, chill the drama and anxiety from your last meeting.

I overreacted yesterday, sorry

Its clean. It gets your dignity back,  No response requested. No dormatting. No begging. Np pursuing. Just strength and confidence. Especially if you don't follow it up wonder why she didn't respond, or go running back if she tosses you a breadcrumb.

I'm not sure you will be past the emotions and the months of drama and co-drama in 2 days... .I'd give myself a little more time and less pressure. There is no deadline that you need to chase here.  Even if you wanted to patch things up, we'd recommend laying low so she can get past whatever is bothering her and clear from tagging it to you.

As you said above, she does not handle stress well (which is typical) and you do not handle her well when she gets off track. There is a protracted stress underway (the divorce) and so best case, this is going to take some times (probably weeks) to rehabilitate tgo the point that you know what you really have here.

Those are my "friend giving you perspective thoughts".  The decisions are of course yours and there are no right or wrong answers here.

[Mr.Camaro68]

Well im hoping this will be my final post here. It was a very long weekend for me. I tried to go out and have some fun to keep my mind off of her. I drank a lot this weekend. I was in no contact with her until yesterday. She texted me and told me she had a couple things of mine still and wanted to get them back to me. I went over there and she gave me those things. She cried and told me she was sorry for everything. She explained that she feels she cannot be with me at this time as she really needs to find out what direction she wants to go in life. She said she feels its unfair to drag me along for the ride as she tries to sort out her life (through counseling). She did tell me that she loves me and will never forget who I am and how I was the only person to not give up on her and stand by her. She said she feels like I am the only person who truly knows who she is. I told her I love her and that im sorry it had to end this way. I told her I would pray for her because I do love her and only want to see her succeed and be happy. She did tell me that if life ever became too overwhelming and she felt like she was drowning (im taking it a major major episode) that she would call me because I am the only one who can calm her and knows her. So I guess my next step is to move forward without her. It hurts a lot and im unsure of how to move forward but im just gong to take it day by day I guess. The reason I prob wont come back to this site much is because its very painful to think about her and of course when im on this site, she is on my mind. Thank you for giving me someone to talk to who understands. I appreciate it.