The people in their life

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My former friend BPD's ex and I were discussing this tonight.  I think it probably has to do with mirroring and with having an unstable sense of self, but I was wondering how common it is.  I knew her for 9 months and he knew her for 6 and was going to move across the country with her, but neither one of us ever really met anyone else in her life.

I never met her ex.  He never met the guy who is like a brother to her and visited from Europe in March.  I only met him briefly, when he picked her up from work.  Her stepsister lives in another state, but when she was home and visited, he only met her for a minute or two.  He only met her parents once, when they flew in to visit her in the hospital.  She made up excuses why I couldn't visit her in the hospital when anyone else was there. Neither one of us met any of her other friends.  He met her former roommates, but she never let me visit her at her apartment, so I never did.

So, is this common or not?

[SummerStorm]

My former friend BPD's ex and I were discussing this tonight.  I think it probably has to do with mirroring and with having an unstable sense of self, but I was wondering how common it is.  I knew her for 9 months and he knew her for 6 and was going to move across the country with her, but neither one of us ever really met anyone else in her life.

I never met her ex.  He never met the guy who is like a brother to her and visited from Europe in March.  I only met him briefly, when he picked her up from work.  Her stepsister lives in another state, but when she was home and visited, he only met her for a minute or two.  He only met her parents once, when they flew in to visit her in the hospital.  She made up excuses why I couldn't visit her in the hospital when anyone else was there. Neither one of us met any of her other friends.  He met her former roommates, but she never let me visit her at her apartment, so I never did.

So, is this common or not?

[wellnowonder]

With my exUBPDh, I have seen more of my in laws and his friends since our separation this year then I ever have in 11 years of marriage.  He seems to have kept everyone away from each other for whatever reason.  I think part of it has to do w/ lies and things he didn't want each other to find out.  He didn't want anybody to compare notes, so to speak.  I'd be curious to hear what others have to say.

[Creativum]

My former friend BPD's ex and I were discussing this tonight.  I think it probably has to do with mirroring and with having an unstable sense of self, but I was wondering how common it is.  I knew her for 9 months and he knew her for 6 and was going to move across the country with her, but neither one of us ever really met anyone else in her life.

I never met her ex.  He never met the guy who is like a brother to her and visited from Europe in March.  I only met him briefly, when he picked her up from work.  Her stepsister lives in another state, but when she was home and visited, he only met her for a minute or two.  He only met her parents once, when they flew in to visit her in the hospital.  She made up excuses why I couldn't visit her in the hospital when anyone else was there. Neither one of us met any of her other friends.  He met her former roommates, but she never let me visit her at her apartment, so I never did.

So, is this common or not?

Mine realized at some point that I was getting suspicious about the true nature of a number of his friendships, particularly on Facebook, to the point that he deleted (not just deactivated) his entire Facebook profile.  Every time I would suggest we go see Amazing Friend X or Awesome Friend Y, who always lived at least 3 hours drive away, he'd initially show enthusiasm but quickly forget about making those plans.  I also noticed that in all of his photos, you'd never see more than two of these friends at the same time.  In fact, many of them never knew the others.  In reality, he had no friends at all.  He had a few party friends, and that was it.  None of these people ever reach out to him, none of them come to visit him, none of them even talk to him unless he initiates a day or two of texting.  I met his entire family, so all the lies he had told me were the same as the ones he had told them.  His family knows there's a problem with him -- that he's promiscuous, has done drugs, and is selfish and occasionally raging.  I know this, too.  But I know a lot more than they do, and if they knew, they'd flip. He really has everyone thinking he's someone he's not -- except me, of course, because I was the closest person he's ever had in his life and I saw it all. 

After the break-up, curiosity got the best of me, and I wanted answers.  I reached out to a few of these people and was met with "Who? Oh, yeah. He's a bit psychotic." The extent of the lying wasn't apparent until after the break-up, though even before the break-up it was intense.

So, I think they keep people separate for a couple of reasons.  One of those is that they don't want each other to compare notes.  Another is that they don't want to have their entire group of friends abandon them.  If they piss off one of their friends, then at least the entire collection of friends won't find out.  I say "friend" but what I really mean is "acquaintance," as I've yet to meet a pwBPD have an actual friend, and their closest "friends" are, unfortunately, usually pretty much lost causes (drug addicts, enablers of bad behaviors, etc.) ... .

[SummerStorm]

A lot of it is note comparing.  I can only imagine what would have happened if I had said to her now ex-bf, "Hey, why did she say living with you was temporary and ask to live with me?"

She was lying to me about how often she was smoking pot.

She hid from her mom the fact that she was cutting again. 

She adores her stepsister and would legitimately be crushed if she had a negative image of her.

She told me to stop texting her boyfriend because I annoyed him with my long texts (he also sends long texts and has never once said a mean or critical thing to me) and told him to stop texting me because I'm crazy.

Most of the pics on her FB (hundreds of them) are either selfies or pics of her with an ex who has been made to look like just a friend.  There are a few with her stepsister and maybe one with a friend, from a few years ago.  She has seen her best friend from college like once in the past year.  Back in 2014, one of her supposed best friends posted on her FB and wrote, "When am I going to get to see you again?" She lives less than an hour away.

When she needs a new place to live, she asks her 200 friends on FB, and no one replies.  And really, for being a college grad who has been on FB for 8 years, she doesn't have that many friends. 

At least 10 friends on her FB are family.  A few are her ex's friends who just never unfriended her.  A few are co-workers and former co-workers.  I know for a fact that she no longer talks to two of them.   One messaged her a few weeks ago and never heard back.   Another friend tried to get in touch with her for two weeks and heard nothing back.

[Learning Fast]

The interesting thing about my ex and her friends is that they were almost all either what I would call "legacy" friends (i.e., those from grammar or high school) or family (she has a large immediate and extended family).  She only has one or two friends from the past twenty years of her life (roughly her mid-20s to mid-40s).  

Based on what I've read BPD behavior becomes more evident once you are in your mid-20s so it does make some sense as to why she has struggled for the past couple of decades with friendships.  Additionally, we live in a very active social area and she has five kids---plenty of opportunities to meet and develop friendships.  This is where I have developed compassion because many of our common friends know that something is not quite right with her.

[SummerStorm]

The interesting thing about my ex and her friends is that they were almost all either what I would call "legacy" friends (i.e., those from grammar or high school) or family (she has a large immediate and extended family).  She only has one or two friends from the past twenty years of her life (roughly her mid-20s to mid-40s).  

Based on what I've read BPD behavior becomes more evident once you are in your mid-20s so it does make some sense as to why she has struggled for the past couple of decades with friendships.  Additionally, we live in a very active social area and she has five kids---plenty of opportunities to meet and develop friendships.  This is where I have developed compassion because many of our common friends know that something is not quite right with her.

Yes, many of her friends on FB are from high school.  Actually, she moved her senior year, so most of them probably haven't seen her in years.

[Creativum]

The interesting thing about my ex and her friends is that they were almost all either what I would call "legacy" friends (i.e., those from grammar or high school) or family (she has a large immediate and extended family).  She only has one or two friends from the past twenty years of her life (roughly her mid-20s to mid-40s).  

Based on what I've read BPD behavior becomes more evident once you are in your mid-20s so it does make some sense as to why she has struggled for the past couple of decades with friendships.  Additionally, we live in a very active social area and she has five kids---plenty of opportunities to meet and develop friendships.  This is where I have developed compassion because many of our common friends know that something is not quite right with her.

My ex is in his late 20's and now that you mention it, I notice the exact same thing! Legacy friends! He tries constantly to reconnect with people from school or whatever, but all of them have moved on and they were never close to begin with. As of now, he has lived in the same town and worked at the same place since February, but has absolutely no friends or connections, even though the people he works with are all around the same age.  He lived in Big City for two years and has but one friend from that time, who's basically a drop-kick party girl, and they don't speak unless they need narc supply. Despite 600 FB friends, only 20-30 of them wish him happy birthday or even bother to say anything to him via chat at all. That's telling.

As for family? Well, I firmly believe that where you find one pwBPD, you find a nest.  His mother is just like him and has only one friend that I know of.  She even thinks the friend is after her husband.  Sigh.  The entire family idealizes and then discards each other right and left. Full of addicts, abusers, sex offenders, violence ... .It's like a goddamn novel in the tradition of naturalism!

I think it has to do with the fact that our brains -- personalities -- are only fully developed once we're around 22/23.  Before that point, we're experimenting socially and making up our minds about who we are and who we want to associate with.  Those of us who are neuro/psychotypical will be able to make good, healthy friendships as adults.  Those of us with BPD, sadly, won't be able to bond with anyone on any meaningful level.

[once removed]

im in my late 20s. i have 184 friends on facebook. the vast majority i have zero contact with and probably never will. its a combination of people ive met once or twice, and high school and even middle school friends. what are we trying to solve, especially if we dont think that facebook is an accurate representation? is there hurt over feeling kept a secret? if so, its understandable; i had a couple of relationships where i felt that way.

[parisian]

PwBPD are of course all individuals just as those nons are so people in their life will vary I guess.

But I was intrigued by others commenting on 'legacy friends' as I found similar patterns with my exBPD's. My first exBPD (yes, I was stupid enough to have had 2 BPD r/ships!), had a core group of friends she had gone to college with, and who she now worked with. They were her drinking enabler group. Some of them couldn't be bothered with me which upset me when I was in the relationship, but I realise they are probably aware of what she is like and no point getting to know the lastest 'relationship' knowing because at some point it will end. She never seemed to have any 'new' friendships that had stuck around. A few of her 'friends' on facebook were people she had slept with :/, inlcuding her first ever boyfriend (but not friends with any others she had been in a relationship with) and her first ever girlfriend (also a friend from school days).

My second was similar in that her core group of friends were also all from her high school years. One of her family had once said to me 'you are a good friend to her' and it wasn't until later that I realised she had probably explained our situation to that person as we were  'just friends'. I put that down to her still sleeping with her ex (unbeknownst to me at the time).

I met (some) of the family of both my exes.

Sometimes I think they are reluctant to introduce you to the family / everyone because if they are a bit self-aware, they know what will happen at some point (i.e the relationship will end) and don't want to have to explain, although the phrase 'we just weren't right for each other' was used by my first exBPD to 'explain' things away. My second was a pathological liar so who knows what rubbish she has told people although we did have a few friends in common to keep her honest with them at least.

I also noticed after both relationships (and once I had learned what BPD was), that a few fakebook friends from both exes seemed also to be people with 'issues' (I suspect also had BPD).

So the pattern from my perspective was certainly 'legacy friends' - a core group of friends from school/college days, and no recent friends. I also suspected a few of the newer friends were 'potential future supply' or people they had slept with previously.

[Learning Fast]

Very interesting in terms of the similarities.

In many ways I always sensed that she was trying to relive her youth since her legacy friends are a party crowd as are the few friends that she has from the past couple of decades.  It generally resembled college behavior in terms of the connection between them.

My ex's sister struggles with addictive issues, has divorced and rarely sees her kids.  My ex never wanted to discuss her sister and if the topic came up she would typically say---"I just can't cope with that", "She has her own problems that she needs to address", etc.  This is her older sister and they were extremely close prior to her sister's difficulties.  She rarely sees or talks to her now.

Her mother is definitely a bit "off" but that was explained away as her having had a minor stroke a couple of years ago although no one else in the family had ever brought it up.  She has a very close attachment to her father almost to the point of appearing to be unhealthy.

It's sad as we live in a great community with a lot of giving, caring and active adults and families.  Unfortunately the core emotional immaturity element of BPD will probably never allow her to experience that.

[SummerStorm]

im in my late 20s. i have 184 friends on facebook. the vast majority i have zero contact with and probably never will. its a combination of people ive met once or twice, and high school and even middle school friends. what are we trying to solve, especially if we dont think that facebook is an accurate representation? is there hurt over feeling kept a secret? if so, its understandable; i had a couple of relationships where i felt that way.

It's more to do with the fact that she only uses Facebook to reach out to be people.  She rarely communicates with anyone outside of Facebook.  She isn't close enough to anyone to personally text people and ask if they have a place to live.  Someone who graduated college less than a year ago and majored in education (it's usually a tight knit group, especially at the college she went to) shouldn't have trouble finding someone to live with. 

[HurtinNW]

This is really fascinating. My ex claims many, many friends. He has hundreds of friends on facebook. He had a very public job where he was always out and about. During our courtship phase, we went out a lot, and it was amazing how many people knew him. He often talked about his incredibly "close" friends. He described these "close" friends as the most beautiful, talented people you would ever meet.

Over time though I noticed that all these "close" friends my ex talked about were not close at all. He had one he talked about all the time whom he said was like his "big sister." I think he saw her once in four years. Others seemed like very nice people, but never how he described, and their friendships with him seemed superficial at best. It was like he was a 50-some party boy convinced he had all these deep, meaningful relationships with people who were actually not close at all. It was honestly really sad.

The legacy thing is interesting too because my ex collects not just legacy friends but famous and talented friends. He is very, very proud of his "famous" friends, and makes a big deal about the connections. It is never in a grandoise way, but presented as if he was so honored by knowing them. Of course these friends do not seem to have the same concept of the friendship as he does. I don't think he is even aware of that.

[Creativum]

This is really fascinating. My ex claims many, many friends. He has hundreds of friends on facebook. He had a very public job where he was always out and about. During our courtship phase, we went out a lot, and it was amazing how many people knew him. He often talked about his incredibly "close" friends. He described these "close" friends as the most beautiful, talented people you would ever meet.

Over time though I noticed that all these "close" friends my ex talked about were not close at all. He had one he talked about all the time whom he said was like his "big sister." I think he saw her once in four years. Others seemed like very nice people, but never how he described, and their friendships with him seemed superficial at best. It was like he was a 50-some party boy convinced he had all these deep, meaningful relationships with people who were actually not close at all. It was honestly really sad.

The legacy thing is interesting too because my ex collects not just legacy friends but famous and talented friends. He is very, very proud of his "famous" friends, and makes a big deal about the connections. It is never in a grandoise way, but presented as if he was so honored by knowing them. Of course these friends do not seem to have the same concept of the friendship as he does. I don't think he is even aware of that.

Yeah, mine talks about his "friends" a lot, and how connected they are and how they can help him network, but they really have absolutely nothing to do with him.  They're people with whom he is on friendly terms.  I'm on friendly terms with people whom I hate/who hate me.  He talks about them, though, as if none of their successes are truly their own; that they'd be nothing without their parents' money or what have you.

He also has this habit of obsessing (usually sexually objectifying) over certain people, then claims to have a strong spiritual/emotional attraction to them (nope, just sexual), and he will then look them up on Facebook or Google them to learn what he can about them.  The people at first seem flattered by his interest in what they do, but within the span of 5-10 minutes they've completely lost interest because they think he's trying too hard.  And he is.  It doesn't help that they always catch him obsessing over their various body parts (the spiritual/emotional connection he talks about).  

He is less intellectual than me, and so any time there would be an intellectual we would be introduced to, they had no interest in talking to him after they spoke to me.  They were polite, but found him off-putting.  I found him off-putting, too, to be honest.  He would go up to them, and pretty much every conversation went like this:

Him:  [After researching them superficially] Wow it's so cool that you do XYZ.  :)id you really do X?  How did you do it?

Other Person:  Yes. I liked that project. [They're a bit put off here by his weird enthusiasm, and quickly notice that he has absolutely no professional or theoretical experience, and therefore nothing really relevant to say.]

Him:  I'm a [insert whatever the other person is], too! Let me show you what I've done! Let's talk about how great it is! [This goes on for several minutes as the other person politely tries to find a way out. I step in.]

Me:  [Brings person back to THEIR work because the event is ABOUT THEM.]

Other Person:  [Engages with me and we both have an intelligent exchange.]

Him:  [Upset that people don't want to talk to him -- they've disrespected him by not being interested in him.]

As a result, his "friends" are usually people who are deeply disturbed at their core.  And even those folks are never around.  Normal, healthy friendships elude him.  People realize quickly that he's just out to jump their bones and get validation for his mediocre skills and average looks.

[Climbmountains91]

My exBPDBF friends are all mostly from his 'mental health' groups he attends, they all suffer from anxiety and stuff which you know is cool, i do to, they just all seem a bit weird, most of them are into fetish's and talk about it openly when apparently exBPD sex drive is zero though he attended the sex talk groups but it would just be general talk, its true because i went to one, its just friends getting together having general talk and banter, you'd have some talk about it, bit weird but yeah.

He's idealising someone at the moment because i never stop hearing about him, i cant wait to put the face to the name, apparently 10 years his senior, from his group and he just seems to have an impact on him at the moment. He's starting to wear tops that are longer than the usual, you know them tops men wear that look like dresses that are in the fashion ! its just not him, he's going out all the time despite having no money and falling over drunk on the way home but seems to be 'best buddys' with this idiot, just doesn't sound like a good influence at all ! Now sound like his mum, i never tell him this, ever, its just what i think. I'm probably reading so much into it.

Yeah i just find his friends a bit weird and some are just not good influences.

[Mutt]

Hi SummerStorm,

Good topic of discussion. I ran into an old mutual friend this week while out getting coffee. I'm not sure sure if he's an ex friend or an old mutual friend. He was in line and recognized me and said Hi, and I was honestly surprised because I have not spoken to any of our old friends. She had told her friends and family unsubstantiated and distorted stories about me when she left. I was actually surprised that he said Hi and I was a little irritated too because I had not heard from him or his girlfriend in over two years, no text or call but his girlfriend is my ex wife's close friend because her number is used for emergency numbers for the kids.

I had a lot of anger for my ex wife, friends and family because my wife split me black and honestly they had split me black and I think that I did so as well. The conversation went well, I kept it work stuff and not personal stuff because I didn't want anything to get back to my ex wife and I don't consider him a friend. We talked for about 10 minutes and we were talking about vapor cigarettes and the conversation turned to politics and talking about the legalization of marijuana and our new premier and I was surprised to find that he smokes marijuana recreationaly.

I see that many of her close friends and her boyfriend use substance. I don't and I known that my ex doesn't. I do respect that he didn't bring up my ex wife and her boyfriend or the baby, or my kids but I was a little angry that it was like we picked up where we left off. I don't want to base all of her friends on this one friend but I see compartmentalization and I do see rescue tendencies from some of her friends and I haven't see others for a long time. I wanted to be careful not to split all of her friends black, but I got the sense that he wanted to talk more and maybe do something but I didn't feel comfortable with that because of how close they are with my ex and I feel like I've outgrown my wife and I don't share the same values with her friends. I had self awareness and I have awareness and I think that some of her friends many not be as aware. It's just who they are.

My ex had gotten him a job at her workplace, she's a manager there and he sounded proud and I thought that was a nice thing of my ex wife to do for him. Honestly, I don't think that he has a clue about my ex wife and about BPD. I saw a side of her that was intimate that is shared between two people. It was nice to talk to him but I think that it's a closed chapter for me in my life.

I wanted to ask you about sending text messages to your ex pwBPD and her boyfriend. What are you sending to her boyfriend if you don't mind me asking? If I was in a new relationship and I had an ex that was sending my girlfriend text messages when our relationship break up was messy, I think that I would feel upset

[SummerStorm]

I wanted to ask you about sending text messages to your ex pwBPD and her boyfriend. What are you sending to her boyfriend if you don't mind me asking? If I was in a new relationship and I had an ex that was sending my girlfriend text messages when our relationship break up was messy, I think that I would feel upset

It's her ex-boyfriend.  They have been broken up since August.  I haven't spoken to my former friend BPD since September.  Her ex and i have been in contact since she was in the hospital.  I send her texts every once in a while.  I don't know if she reads them or not.  What I've been sending her are basically updates on things (a co-worker of mine that she was close to just got a new job, etc.).

Her ex and I basically compare experiences.  It also helps me figure out what her triggers are and helps me depersonalize her behaviors.   He's also helped clear up some things for me, especially in relation to things I was sure she was lying about.  When she broke up with him, she wouldn't tell me why, so he also helped me understand what happened. 

[Mutt]

SummerStorm,

I see. I can understand comparing notes and on the other side of the coin you can see what happened after she broke up with you in Sept and before she broke up with him in August and get his perspective. You can also read about BPD psychopathology to depersonalize her behaviors and learn about traits and what triggers stress and anxiety with a pwBPD.

[SummerStorm]

SummerStorm,

I see. I can understand comparing notes and on the other side of the coin you can see what happened after she broke up with you in Sept and before she broke up with him in August and get his perspective. You can also read about BPD psychopathology to depersonalize her behaviors and learn about traits and what triggers stress and anxiety with a pwBPD.

We weren't in a relationship.  She ended our friendship and then tried being friends again.   She didn't really paint him black, just basically gave up on the relationship.  A month later, she painted us both black.  She stole from him and then felt ashamed and needed to paint someone black, and I was the one.   Then, he called the cops on her the next day, and she painted him black.