How do I deal with this

[Cloudy Days]

My husband has a cousin that for some reason every time he talks to him he thinks I have slept with him. I want nothing to do with this cousin, when I first met my husband this cousin was in the military and didn't live near us, he was discharged and came back home. We got along for a little bit (he had a girlfriend) but my husband for some reason would always accuse me of screwing him. I finally said I don't want him around anymore because I can't handle this crap. The cousin had a mental breakdown and acts pretty strange now, he moved away with his parents to another state (I was happy about this). Now he is talking about moving back and he is coming to town tomorrow, and my husband is already accusing me of sleeping with him. I told him he is not allowed in our home.

What I don't understand is this used to be my husband's best friend, his only friend, He grew up with him and spent a lot of time with him in the past. He's never screwed my husband over, Now he has cut him out of his life. I don't want anything to do with him because of the accusations.

Last night me and my husband got into an argument about moving to another state, something he has been pushing for. He went and got alcohol and I just went to bed I wasn't going to deal with him. He woke me up in the middle of the night accusing me of cheating on him with his cousin. Obviously he was drunk by this point. I have some PTSD from being woken up like this so it took me literally 3 hours to go back to sleep. He left me alone, I just couldn't shut off my adrenaline.

The thing is, this is the exact reason why I have not moved to another state with him. I've tried to tell him this but obviously he only does this when he is in a certain frame of mind and acts like I am stupid for thinking he treats me badly. He has a selective memory. Any thoughts on how I should deal with the cousin? I've given him a list of things I need in order to move but he's not really accepting this and is trying to sell all of OUR belongings to get money, which I am not ok with. He always claims things are his, so this is a problem.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! Cloudy, you've got a lot on your plate.  

I remember you said that your husband has a TBI in addition to the BPD. Is paranoia often part of the equation too?

It's really sad that he has distanced himself from his childhood friend and then accused you of cheating with this guy.

And now he claims mutual property is his, to deal with at his own discretion. (My ex used to do this. When I broke up with him, he ended up taking many things that he had given to me as birthday presents. At the time he gave me some of these things, I noted that he was buying stuff he wanted for my birthday.  )

I'm sorry I don't have any good advice about how to deal with the cousin. Somehow I think shunning him adds to the narrative that you've had some improper behavior with him. Obviously I can't fully imagine your situation, but if I were in your shoes, I would broach the subject with the cousin in a humorous way and say, "My H seems to think we've had some inappropriate relationship." I could imagine in your situation that might be potentially explosive, or it might defuse the situation once and forever. Good luck.  

[Cloudy Days]

Yea, Paranoia is not a stranger to our relationship, it comes and goes, but he's always accused me of cheating on him with someone. He even accused me of cheating on him with his brother, who I had never met at the time (he lives in another state). I think the reason why I asked this question was that I wondered if saying he's not allowed in our home would only show guilt on my part. I know the outcome of the visit and I just don't want to deal with it. He's never asked his cousin about it, which to me if he actually thought I slept with him he wouldn't have anything to do with his cousin at all.

If my husband is ever in "I'm leaving you" mode his go to thing is to say I am cheating on him and that is his reason why he is leaving. He also claims that is my reasoning for pushing him away (boundaries). If I say anything to stand up to him, then someone fed me these lines, or someone is standing next to me (on the phone) and coaching me. He can't wrap his head around the fact that I have my own mind and can think for myself.

As for our things together, He claimed he was going to sell all of his guitars. Fine by me except the two that are worth anything were my Dad's and my mother sold him one of them at a discount price with a big warning that it is never to be sold to another person. The other guitar is mine and was my inheritance (it's worth $5000), the only thing I got of my Dad's. The rest of the stuff was bought with my money but he has somehow come up with a reason that it is his. I don't even care about the other stuff, it's just a slap in the face that somehow I worked for 3 years while he didn't and everything is somehow his.

[Cat Familiar]

Well, here's what I'd do in your situation. It may make things worse, but I'd definitely confront those cheating accusations. I hope FF weighs in on this. He's had to deal with similar allegations.

Also, I'd get those two guitars out of the house. As I recall, you live near your mother? Keep them safe and you won't have to worry about them.

My pwBPD is not volatile and it's been years since I've lived with my ex, who was violent, so my recommendations may not be appropriate for your situation.

If I had nothing to feel guilty about, I'd be outraged to be accused of cheating, so my advice might be poor regarding a pwBPD who is also PPD.

[Cloudy Days]

If I had nothing to feel guilty about, I'd be outraged to be accused of cheating, so my advice might be poor regarding a pwBPD who is also PPD.

Outrage is usually how I feel and he claims this is an admittance of guilt because if I was innocent I wouldn't be upset about it. Still not understanding this. So any anger I have about the accusations gets turned into fuel for him. I have done well for the most part trying to Validate instead of getting angry. It works most of the time but some days are very hard to keep my anger in, especially after last night.

As for the guitars, one of them is his, he paid for it, but my mother asked him not to sell it. I actually fought to get the other guitar because my mom kept going back and forth on whether or not she was going to give it to me. So I feel torn about it. I don't think he would sell it, but who the heck knows. I know if anything happened to it that would be my line in the sand and I think he knows that. But my fears is that he wants me to draw that line because he won't draw it himself. One of my main problems is figuring out when he is serous or when he is just talking out of his ass.

[Cat Familiar]

Outrage is usually how I feel and he claims this is an admittance of guilt because if I was innocent I wouldn't be upset about it. Still not understanding this. So any anger I have about the accusations gets turned into fuel for him. I have done well for the most part trying to Validate instead of getting angry. It works most of the time but some days are very hard to keep my anger in, especially after last night.

Gosh, it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

Kind of reminds me of when I was a teenager and my BPD mother was accusing me of having sex with my boyfriend. I wasn't. I couldn't even consider it because I was so unattracted to my bf. But the next one that came along... .well, I felt I had nothing to lose since I was already considered guilty. 

Not that I'm suggesting anything, but I know how maddening it is to be accused of something you'd never think of doing!

[Cloudy Days]

I am rather hard headed, I wouldn't cheat on him just because I never want him to be right about it. I've actually told him this. A man is literally the last thing I want in my life right now. He acts like I am insane for saying anything like this. He's cured me of wanting another relationship for a while at least. I don't know why I picked him, but I know it was for dysfunctional reasons and I don't want it to happen again. Cheating would not benefit me in any way shape or form. I will never understand why he gets so stuck on it.

[Cat Familiar]

He's telling you his fear and that he inherently feels unworthy of you.

I know exactly what you mean about not wanting a man in your life right now. When I divorced my husband, I began doing therapy and  I decided I had never before focused totally on myself. I was always trying to be supportive of someone else.

I vowed to "marry myself" and I even bought myself "wedding presents", things that I would need to take care of myself like a nice saucepan, since my ex took a lot of those things when he left. Ever since that time, I've had a much better sense of self and though I married another BPD, it didn't become evident to me until many years later. And he's really a great guy when he's not drinking to excess. I can largely overlook the BPD-ness when the alcohol isn't a factor.

The years that I was single in between marriages were a very lovely time for me to get acquainted with myself and be kind and supportive of myself, just like I had tried to be with my first husband. I ended up dating a guy who was very nice, but in retrospect was another pwBPD with PTSD--so I knew enough to be wary of letting that relationship progress further. But we did have some good times together and I learned a lot.

I know what you mean by choosing a partner for dysfunctional reasons, but please don't beat yourself up about it. It's all a part of our personal journey and we continue to learn and grow. I had a BPD mother and I ended up with two BPD husbands and a BPD boyfriend in between the marriages. I realized what appears to be "love" to me is tinged with BPD. I'm not sure what a healthy love would look like, but I know my current marriage has the potential to be satisfying and fulfilling, which is something I couldn't have said about my first marriage.

[Cloudy Days]

I don't think that I am beating myself up about it, I have learned a lot about myself that maybe I wouldn't have learned if I had not met my husband. My parents were great people, they just didn't get along with each other. They had a dysfunctional marriage, but neither were abusive to me. It didn't allow me to walk away without scars though. I know somewhat of why I was drawn to him, who can resist the honeymoon phases of being adored. But why I never walked away when there were a ton of  . I shutter when I think about some of the things I witnessed that If I were not in love I would have ran for the hills.

I don't want to live the rest of my life like this, I truly fear leaving him and shacking up with another BPD. Not that, that is what is keeping me from leaving, I just know I don't trust myself. I suppose that is a self confidence issue more than anything, which is the main reason I don't understand his fears about me cheating on him. I've asked him before why he doesn't think he's good enough for me to be faithful to him. He comes back with an arrogant response as if I am stupid for asking that question and he's better than me.

[Notwendy]

I was also going to mention that your reaction to the cousin over your Hs accusation could be seen as a validation of it in a way, similar to what JADE does.

Another way to look at this is to do nothing. An accusation that isn't true needs no defense. Now you can decide to have nothing to do with the cousin if you want, but since your Hs thoughts are based on him, not you, what you decide about the cousin has not changed your Hs idea.

This can be upsetting. Once my H acted as if I was cheating on him when he found out about a school crush. I was really upset that he thought that of me. I tried so hard to explain that I didn't even date the guy and have not seen him since my teens. It didn't make sense that having a teen crush decades before I met my H could be cheating. By the time we got through this I felt so much shame that my H was basically thinking I was a cheater.

But I haven't cheated. It isn't just about him. It's about me. I think I would really feel badly about myself if I did. Living according to my values helps me maintain self esteem. No accusation can take that from me- or you or change the fact that you have done nothing wrong with that cousin.

[bluebond6]

Well, Cloudy Day, that's a tough situation. My wife has put me into a similar situation many times.  I have been faithful to her, but she will accuse me repeatedly until it's hard to stay calm. If I defend myself, then she'll say I am a liar.  If I say nothing, then that is perceived as admission of guilt.  And that is not fair as well as frustrating! 

I have been doing this for 20 years now, so here is my $0.02

1) You know you did not cheat. Have faith in yourself, and try not to get stuck on that piece of the puzzle. (Even though you would like to hear your partner confirm he believes you, that is probably not going to happen anytime soon.)

2) Try this (PUVAS) if it comes up again:  "I hear you say to me that you are very concerned about your cousin coming back to town, and I understand you believe there was something going on." Now, he has heard you validate what he is saying to you which should enable you to assert yourself by saying something like, "I would never cheat on you with anyone." NOW try to set the boundary that is missing. "It hurts my feelings and destroys this relationship when you continue to accuse me. Please stop your accusations."

Sadly, alcohol can make it impossible to make progress.  That is when I leave to avoid getting assaulted.

Good luck.

[formflier]

Cloudy Days,

False accusations are frustrating to deal with.  For several years before I found this site and started working on my BPD education, I fueled the fire of paranoia that my wife had.

I have had several providers tell me that paranoia is central to what my wife is dealing with.  At some later date, I'll let you in on some of the whoppers that I have been accused of.  Let's just say, the fantasy me is quite a player,

OK.  In retrospect, I believe that the more I invalidated my wife, the worse the paranoia got.  I would "prove" myself innocent (no wiggle room) so she would reach for a  bigger whopper, something more outlandish that couldn't be proven wrong. 

Now, if I understand the story right, there is one guy (the cousin) that is the source of the allegations, correct? 

Any other weird accusations?

First:  Before you try much different stuff, let's talk here for a while.  We don't want to make the paranoia worse.

More later.

FF

[formflier]

OK, I'm back.

Can you post some "word for word" of when he accuses you?  I think that would help us figure out how to sort this out.

1.  Read about validation and invalidation.  Do a "deep dive" in your communication and look for ways you are invalidating him.  You may not be.  If you think you are finding invalidation, cleared to cut that out immediately. 

2.  I would be shy about "validating" his emotion or idea that you are cheating.  Validating fear is ok.  Validating cheating would be validating the invalid (IMO)

3.  Eventually, you want to get to the point where you don't participate in accusation.  Zero tolerance.  Eventually.  For now, I think you need to try and figure out the emotion behind this.

4.  Don't try this yet, but be thinking about "Help me understand your idea that I have cheated with cousin".  You have to be relaxed when you say this.  Listen.  You will here hard stuff.  Use active listening.   ":)o I have this right?"

5.  Do not "deny" it or agree with it.  Tell him it's obviously important to him and he has obviously thought about it for a while.  You want to understand his thought and think about it for a while too.

I think I'll hush. 

Listen:  It's not about you.  The paranoid thoughts  and the conversations you have about them are a window into a tortured mind.  Since you are a stayer, it's critical that you get as good a view as you can of what is going on in there.

Do you understand his "core wound"?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

This is not the first person he has accused me of cheating on him with, this is a pretty regular thing, it's gotten less of a problem since he has gotten treatment but it still pops up. Apparently his cousin told him I talked to him when I had not. He knows he doesn't have all his marbles anymore, the last time we saw him he was rather weird and was on Meth.

This particular time he outright came into the room and just exclaimed "You F'd my cousin" There was no asking about it. The ways he accuses me can be varied, from outright asking are you cheating on me, to a nonchalant mentioning something about me having a boyfriend in a conversation. To an outright rage and calling me a whore. The rages have gotten much less frequent, I would say 1 every 3-4 months.

Anyways, my husband has accused me of cheating on him at work many, many times. Every job I have had he has accused me, he even worked with me for a few months and it didn't stop him from accusing me. I remember when we first started dating there were some red flags about this issue. He made me sleep with the door open a few times because he thought I was sneaking men into the bedroom while he was in the living room. Our first argument was because he thought I was cheating on him, I broke down crying and he apologized. Pretty extreme, they have gotten less extreme but they are still pretty ridiculous.

I know what has caused it, His mother cheated on his father and it was the catalyst that ruined his life. His mother left his father (his father had BPD I think) for another man. They had an insanely toxic divorce and eventually his father killed himself and my husband found him. He says he had girlfriends cheat on him but from what his mother tells me I don't think this is true, just his paranoia. He played the victim a lot when I had first met him about how he had been hurt by past girlfriends. I think the main cause was his parents messy divorce and how it all came to be. What makes matters worse is she married the man she cheated on his dad with and he's a pretty lousy person. He's gotten into physical fights with my husband several times the first when he was 17, even pulled a gun on him. So he was left without a home and ended up jumping from home to home, whoever would take him from about the age of 15.

[formflier]

 

OK, since it is with multiple people, then I think it is similar to what I faced.

If my wife said to me, "You effed so and so, "  My gut says I would turn and walk away without speaking or acknowledging that anything happened.

With "third party" stories, I don't help investigate.

for instance:  FF wife talks to bob.  Bob says something about Prudence Pretty Pants and works my name into the sentence.  FF wife asks me why Bob would do that, that it must be a secret message about FF getting inside those pretty pants.  Finally, that I should call Bob and figure this out.

IN a very nonchalant way I would say "If you have concerns about what Bob has said to you, my advice is to call him yourself"

FF wife would introduce rabbit trails and all kinds of stuff.

FF says:  "I will NOT be calling Bob" and exits the conversation.  No more discussion or acknowledgement.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I pretty much dropped the issue of his cousin, He wasn't really concerned with him visiting but there is always some residual obsession any time he sees family. So far his cousin hasn't contacted him to visit so I guess we will see, I don't usually interact with him much if he does come over, I watch TV and let my husband do his own thing. I say hi and that's about it. I'm never sure how welcoming I should be and I probably come off as cold.

[formflier]

 

So, is it your husband pushing for him to visit, or the cousin?

There is obviously some weird stuff here.

I would consider approaching it like this.

You husband says something about cousin coming over.  I would recommend you ask him to go meet cousin somewhere for lunch if he wants to continue the r/s with cousin.

The trick is how to handle it if he balks or asks why.  I would send it back to him and say this is "as per your concerns" (although I have some worry about validating the invalid there).

The basic thought is that this is your home and your hubby shouldn't be bringing people into your place of tranquility that upset lots of things.

That doesn't mean you get to veto all of his people, but 1 or 2 here and there seems reasonable.

Thoughts?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

So, is it your husband pushing for him to visit... .or the cousin?

Honestly I am not sure, I think my husband invited him at first, mainly because he hasn't seen our new place. He's worried that the cousin will overstay his welcome, In the past he would sleep on our couch for 4-5 days, and I wasn't down with that. He even asked at one point to rent a room from us because he was homeless and I explicitly said NO! This is what always confuses me, he will ask me about something like that and I am thinking, this is the guy you are accusing me of screwing, are you serious? But he thinks about the rent money we could get out of it instead of the drama it would create.  Anyways, my husband doesn't go out often he is a bit antisocial. His cousin actually asked him to go to a superbowl thing at one of his cousins friends houses. My husband doesn't like those kinds of situations so he declined. I am not home all day long so I am hoping he maybe visits while I am not there. So far there have been no plans made.

[formflier]

 

What is your ability to say no to a visit?

Second question, what is your ability to enforce a no or otherwise gain compliance?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I think if I say no, then that makes him think I am guilty. Things are calm right now he is obsessing about something else so it's not an issue at the moment. I could tell him no, but if he really wanted to he would just do it. It's not like I can stand in front of the door to prevent him from entering. I would probably just leave the house or something similar. I don't dislike this cousin, I think it's good for my husband to hang out with people, he has no friends. But I just don't want to be around so I can avoid any reading between the lines that my husband attempts to do.

[formflier]

I think if I say no, then that makes him think I am guilty. 

You are busted, bad, bad thinking and decision making.

If you don't want cousin around, say no.

If you don't care, let him come around and ignore the threats.

Decision making based on what a disordered mind will think, is pretty much doomed.

Thoughts?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I don't actually mind, I just want ways to stop or dodge in a healthy way the accusations. I told him twice he is not welcome to our home and I haven't heard anything since about him coming over.

I guess my thoughts are, I would tell him no, he would do it anyways and then after the fact use it against me. So I may as well stay out of it and let the chips fall where they may. Because the accusations are there whether he comes over or not.