The urge to contact...

[confusedandangry]

This morning I was looking on a site called Pintrest... .I forgot I was following my exBPD... .anyway, she has a habit of pinning song lyrics based on her mood... .she pinned the lyrics to "Say Something" by Great Big World... .I am now having the urge to text her to see if she is sorry or remorseful for her actions... .my head tells me to stop, but my heart is aching so bad to do it... .everything I have read on here tells me that IF we do recycle it will only end in the same heartache that it did the first time... .is it possible that she is feeling bad for breaking my heart?  Is it possible that she isn't into my replacement like she thought?  Is she missing me?  What do I do?  Just when I get on a foot ahead, I take 3 steps back with this situation... .I have not had any contact with her, except for her texting me Saturday night asking if I sent her car key with her items... .I replied yes I did... .she did not even reply with thank you or anything... .what is everyone's thought on this?  I know most of you have been right where I am, have broke no contact and I just don't want to keep hurting myself over and over... .

[hopealways]

I have a similar story: her itunes account was linked to mine, so during our first major breakup she started downloading sad love songs which were all about how she wanted her lover back. So I broke down, called a meeting thinking she was trying to reach out to me. At the meeting I asked her if there was something she needed to tell me and she said "No why?". I said well I have been receiving notices of the sad love songs you have been downloading to which she said "I just like sad songs" and then continued to scream and yell at me for God knows what, eventually leaving the table, cursing at me while she drove away.

Looking back I think the songs maybe had absolutely NOTHING to do with me.  She probably missed her ex whom she left for me and that's what it was about.  I once again created a fantasy of her running back to me and living happily ever after, this never happened. It was just disaster after disaster.

[confusedandangry]

How can they just turn off emotions that quickly?  How can their hearts be that hard?  How can they be all in love and 30 minutes later out the door with never to speak to you again?

[Lonely_Astro]

How can they just turn off emotions that quickly?  How can their hearts be that hard?  How can they be all in love and 30 minutes later out the door with never to speak to you again?

That's BPD.

While that seems like a smart response, it's just... .true.  They live in a world of ever changing emotions that never ceases.  Nothing is ever 'calm' for them.  I call it the seesaw conundrum, when they are in a romantic r/s with someone.

On one end of the seesaw is fear of abandonment, the other end is fear of engulfment.  They start out in the middle (the seesaw is calm).  Then they start running headlong into one end.  Then they shift course and go the other way without slowing down.  They keep doing this, which makes the seesaw tilt faster and faster until they find a new seesaw (triangulation).  Then the 'old' seesaw slows, but now they're straddling 2 seesaws.  Since they can't trust their own emotions, they 'old' seesaw must be defective somehow... .after all, it was tilting so fast.  So they never fully trust the 'old' seesaw again... .so they end up leaving it for the 'new' seesaw, only to start the process all over again.

I call it a conundrum because they never can understand why there's so many 'bad' seesaws out there... .even though it's them that's causing the seesaw to become unstable.  Btw, we all are on the seesaw, but we can regulate it to keep it balanced, where a BP can't.

[confusedandangry]

So, basically, this new relationship is going to go down in flames with time?  Just as ours did?  She will never be in a relationship any length of time due to her disorder?  The replacement is spineless, but a cheater... .(not speculation, known fact)

[zeus123]

Borderlines are wired differently than you. Accept it!

[tryingsome]

So, basically, this new relationship is going to go down in flames with time?  Just as ours did?  She will never be in a relationship any length of time due to her disorder?  The replacement is spineless, but a cheater... .(not speculation, known fact)

Depends on the pwBPD and depends on the other person. Things could get better but it takes a lot of work by both parties.

Usually it is doing the work that is the hard part. There are success stories listed here, so for some things do work out.

Now, it is never going to be a 'normal' relationship.

[confusedandangry]

What is a pwBPD?

[Lonely_Astro]

So, basically, this new relationship is going to go down in flames with time?  Just as ours did?  She will never be in a relationship any length of time due to her disorder?  The replacement is spineless, but a cheater... .(not speculation, known fact)

Basically, yes.  It may be sooner or later in length compared to your r/s with them, but it will happen.  There are people who say that BPDs can go on to have successful relationships, but this is by FAR the exception to the normal.  And success is defined by each person, so your success may not be the same as mine. 

BPD is a serious mental illness and as of this writing, not curable. The only known treatment that has shown promising results is DBT and even that is hotly debated.  It doesn't cure BPD, it only helps manage it.  This is a huge undertaking for the pwBPD (person with BPD) and takes YEARS of therapy, commitment, and hard work on their part at a CHANCE of improvement.  All the while, it's business as usual.  Btw, the stats show only 50% of those who start DBT stay with it too. Out of those, 80% stay managed enough to not be considered BPD but can be triggered again under certain stressors.

To us laymen, BPD isn't curable and would make our r/s with a pwBPD difficult, in the least.

[confusedandangry]

I know she will admit to having it, only by slip up.  She has told me on a couple of occassions.  She refuses to get counseling for anything she says she has... .bipolar, BPD and PTSD (she served overseas in OEF).  So, I guess the trail of broken hearts will continue.  Like I have posted before, she left her two small children in the care of their father, gained 50/50 custody and gave that up because she said money, walked off from her 2nd marriage, 3 friends while we were together, and blindsided the ex before me, she left me without a clue and the walked off from the dog I gave her as a gift.  The only thing that has remained constant is her job, but she doesn't go to it half the time, she abuses her illness to take off when she wants. 

[Lonely_Astro]

I know she will admit to having it, only by slip up.  She has told me on a couple of occassions.  She refuses to get counseling for anything she says she has... .bipolar, BPD and PTSD (she served overseas in OEF).  So, I guess the trail of broken hearts will continue.  Like I have posted before, she left her two small children in the care of their father, gained 50/50 custody and gave that up because she said money, walked off from her 2nd marriage, 3 friends while we were together, and blindsided the ex before me, she left me without a clue and the walked off from the dog I gave her as a gift.  The only thing that has remained constant is her job, but she doesn't go to it half the time, she abuses her illness to take off when she wants. 

Whether she does or doesn't have BPD (or any other disorder) isn't what's important.  What's important is how you're holding up, how you're healing, and what steps you're taking to reach that goal. 

Don't get lost in  what is wrong with your ex partner. What you should take away from it is that they were unhealthy for you and possibly you were unhealthy for them too.

Keep healing.

[wanttoknowmore]

I seriously doubt that pwBPD forgets the beloved Non... .its just the opposite... if the relationship was very pleasant during first phase (honeymoon phase)... .and break up happens... .pwBPD drowns herself into alcohol, drugs, impulsive sex, in depression, or self mutilation or suicide attempts.  All this behavior is to forget the Non as Non has become a source of intense pain and fear for her. This all is not under pwBPD's control as she has a serious mental disorder which takes control of her brain. Its not on purpose.

New research shows that pwBPD have a very painful trauma memory system in their amygdala... .once it gets activated they go in emotionally dysregulated phase and behave very irrationally and  illogically. This drives Non crazy... because it is crazy making behavior.

I would like to emphasize that pwBPD are not evil, they are not psychopaths ... .they are themselves suffering greatly ... .their disorder makes many well meaning, kind men suffer and develop depression.  Nobody wins... Not pwBPD... .Not Non... .only the disorder wins.

[Lonely_Astro]

I seriously doubt that pwBPD forgets the beloved Non... .its just the opposite... if the relationship was very pleasant during first phase (honeymoon phase)... .and break up happens... .pwBPD drowns herself into alcohol, drugs, impulsive sex, in depression, or self mutilation or suicide attempts.  All this behavior is to forget the Non as Non has become a source of intense pain and fear for her. This all is not under pwBPD's control as she has a serious mental disorder which takes control of her brain. Its not on purpose.

New research shows that pwBPD have a very painful trauma memory system in their amygdala... .once it gets activated they go in emotionally dysregulated phase and behave very irrationally and  illogically. This drives Non crazy... because it is crazy making behavior.

I would like to emphasize that pwBPD are not evil, they are not psychopaths ... .they are themselves suffering greatly ... .their disorder makes many well meaning, kind men suffer and develop depression.  Nobody wins... Not pwBPD... .Not Non... .only the disorder wins.

I'll humbly disagree with you. BPD is a spectrum disorder.  There is also overlap of other cluster b disorders (aspd, npd, hpd) that is common.  Not to mention other issues (depression, anxiety, etc).  Rarely does a person just show traits of BPD.  A pwBPD is in control of their actions at all times, just like an alcoholic.  They make conscious decisions (i.e. They know their behavior is impulsive, self damaging, or even hurtful to others) but they don't think of the long term consequences of the choices they make at that moment.  BPDs with ASPD/NPD traits are even worse, because they may engage in behavior that purposely hurts someone else.

To sit there and tell people that they "aren't in control" is quite simply... .false.  If they weren't "in control", then they would be / should be committed.  Often times the decision they make (cutting, cheating, whatever) is a conscious decision they make, even though they know it will hurt themselves or others.  They are just to emotionally stunted or lack empathy to worry about any consequence of that action... .but they make the decision to do it.  Impulse or not, it's still their choice.  Just like an alcoholic says "this will be my last drink" as he drinks a bottle of gin only to go get another bottle, they make the choice to drink that bottle.

I'll never believe that they are "out of control" (minus those on the lowest end of the spectrum, of course), because otherwise they would be locked up since they are a danger to themselves or others.  No, they know what they're doing, it just doesn't matter because it's only about them and their wants/needs/feelings.   While I have empathy for them (oh, the irony), I won't excuse their (typical) treatment of others because they're "ill".  Many of them know they're hurting themselves and others, they just don't 'care' enough to stop the cycle.

[hurting300]

What is a pwBPD?

pwBPD... .Person with BPD

[confusedandangry]

Thank you Lonely_Astro, for explaining and clarifying what the other person said, because that made me feel once AGAIN, it was my fault she acted in this manner.  I am trying to heal.  I ask a lot of questions, because the more I know about BPD and her disorder, the more I am healing.  I wont say that I am not confused, because I am... .but I know I will never understand.  Her sister text me yesterday to check on me and ask if she really left her dog (which she supposedly loved)... .I asked her if she knew why she left and she told me I would never understand it, because she got an answer from her and she (she sister) didn't even understand it.  She also stated that my exBPD is concerned with her family being upset with her for leaving me.  Is that a normal trait?  Do they care honestly what their family thinks?  Her family knew without a doubt I adored her.  I know I have many issues reading here... .because I fell hard for her.  My childhood consisted of an abusive father and a neglectful mother, who was divorced.  I was molested at the age of 7 by relatives and held at gunpoint by my biological father at 12.  I am in counseling.for those issues.  I told her those issues and she seemed.so supportive for a month, and when I needed my energy and some of her's on my moving forward... .she left.   I still found it within myself thru all of the trauma in my life to give her all my love and devotion, be faithful and supportive thru her bipolar episodes and work so we had a beautiful home.  I paid all of the household bills, she worked for her spending money.  Is it normal for them to walk off from even their children?  Their friends? Their family?  Like I said, I am seeking therapy as well as counseling, also I am seeing a dr for medication.  I am focusing on my healing... .I just want and need to know more about their behaviors. 

[Lonely_Astro]

Thank you Lonely_Astro, for explaining and clarifying what the other person said, because that made me feel once AGAIN, it was my fault she acted in this manner.  I am trying to heal.  I ask a lot of questions, because the more I know about BPD and her disorder, the more I am healing.  I wont say that I am not confused, because I am... .but I know I will never understand.  Her sister text me yesterday to check on me and ask if she really left her dog (which she supposedly loved)... .I asked her if she knew why she left and she told me I would never understand it, because she got an answer from her and she (she sister) didn't even understand it.  She also stated that my exBPD is concerned with her family being upset with her for leaving me.  Is that a normal trait?  Do they care honestly what their family thinks?  Her family knew without a doubt I adored her.  I know I have many issues reading here... .because I fell hard for her.  My childhood consisted of an abusive father and a neglectful mother, who was divorced.  I was molested at the age of 7 by relatives and held at gunpoint by my biological father at 12.  I am in counseling.for those issues.  I told her those issues and she seemed.so supportive for a month, and when I needed my energy and some of her's on my moving forward... .she left.   I still found it within myself thru all of the trauma in my life to give her all my love and devotion, be faithful and supportive thru her bipolar episodes and work so we had a beautiful home.  I paid all of the household bills, she worked for her spending money.  Is it normal for them to walk off from even their children?  Their friends? Their family?  Like I said, I am seeking therapy as well as counseling, also I am seeing a dr for medication.  I am focusing on my healing... .I just want and need to know more about their behaviors. 

Each of them are individuals, so their behavior can't be summed up as "they all do x,y,z".  But, of course, there are common traits/behaviors that most on here have experienced.  Wanttoknowmore referenced dysregulation, which occurs when they are overwhelmed with their emotions and that's when "crazy making behavior" happens.  But they still aren't out of control.  Sure, they'll go on a spending spree or sleep with countless people or something else harmful in an attempt to self soothe, but they make those decisions.  They're never "out of control" or on "autopilot" and not responsible for their behavior.  They just don't think of the long term implications of their behavior.  For instance, my ex dated a guy for a month without my knowledge because I spoke harshly to her (after being baited into an argument).  She made that decision, yet was upset when I found out and confronted her about it.  It was MY fault she dated the guy because I was "mean" to her.  According to her, since I was mean to her, I was using her and going to leave anyway so she decided to find someone new.  Mind you, she never spoke to me about her feelings, she just went and did it all the while continuing a r/s with me.  That was her choice.

They will preemptively strike by leaving you first if they even remotely think you're going to leave them.  To them, it's better to hurt you first than you hurt them.  Keep in mind this perceived abandonment can be in their own head.  You could've said some "off" to her or gave her a look she perceived as hateful.  Anything can trigger it and I do mean anything.  Nothing you said/did was to blame for this.  I gave J all the loving/caring/understanding I could, I knew she was BPD.  We talked about what to do when she became deregulated... .the whole 9 yards.  It didn't matter.  When I did exactly what she told me to do, it was still wrong.  You literally cannot win with them, ever. When the devaluing process starts, the r/s is basically over.  Sure, you can stick around and hope they regulate enough again to try to work on it, but it's not been my experience that it last long.  It took J about 6 months for her to devalue me, we got back together for a great month, then she left permanently (though she forgot to tell me, of course). I spent another 2 months trying to repair the r/s to only find out she was dating someone else.  I ended the r/s then.  Of course I discovered she had been dating ANOTHER guy too, who she's with now.  I should also mention that J is in (well, supposedly) DBT, on meds, and is very self aware.

I understand when the r/s ruptures that you're left wondering what happened.  If ever there were a chance for success, I had it.  It didn't matter in the end, I still lost her.  Turns out though, she wasn't who she claimed to be with me in the beginning anyway.  There were a ton of lies, omission, and manipulations from her the whole time we were together.  People say it takes two to tango, I just didn't realize I was dancing alone for as long as I was.

Again: don't blame yourself.  Were you perfect in the r/s?  Probably not.  You're human.  You make mistakes (I know I did).  But that's the difference in being in a r/s with a normal adult vs a disordered one.  They understand (empathy) you make mistakes.  A disordered one expects you to be perfect and when you aren't, they start devaluing you. 

Oh, and all the stuff you asked about (then suddenly leaving, worrying about how they're percevied by others, etc) is typical behavior when they deregulate.  It's best for you to realize this person is unhealthy to you, detach, and begin healing.  I know it's easier said than done, trust me.  I didn't want to let go of J.  But I knew I had to.  Just be glad you don't have to see your ex everyday like I do (along with my replacement).  It's brutal to see their "happiness" every day.

[confusedandangry]

You have been so helpful on here.  A lot of people have, but you took more time explaining my questions.  I'm so sorry you have to see your ex and the replacement at work.  I don't know how I would handle that.  I did something for me today.  I went to the market and bought something for dinner that I LIKE... .not something that she likes also.  It was kinda nice to go do the things I use to do.  I have a lot of soul searching to do, because I know that I never want to attract another person with issues like this again.  And, no I was not perfect, but I treated her like a queen.  She left out a lot of her past in the beginning of the relationship, that would have been a complete deal breaker if I had known.  I hope you are healing nicely as well... .I have been placed on medication for sleep and depression, so here's to better living through medication hopefully. 

[Lonely_Astro]

You have been so helpful on here.  A lot of people have, but you took more time explaining my questions.  I'm so sorry you have to see your ex and the replacement at work.  I don't know how I would handle that.  I did something for me today.  I went to the market and bought something for dinner that I LIKE... .not something that she likes also.  It was kinda nice to go do the things I use to do.  I have a lot of soul searching to do, because I know that I never want to attract another person with issues like this again.  And, no I was not perfect, but I treated her like a queen.  She left out a lot of her past in the beginning of the relationship, that would have been a complete deal breaker if I had known.  I hope you are healing nicely as well... .I have been placed on medication for sleep and depression, so here's to better living through medication hopefully. 

I am by no means an expert in all this.  I only speak from experience and what I've read/been taught about BPD, disorders, and other psychological issues.  Like all other fields, a lot is debated among professionals about cluster b disorders.  It's always good to educate yourself on it.  I was all consumed about it when J and I had a r/s 4 years ago (this was before either of us knew anything about BPD).  We were NC for 3 years and reconnected.  You know the end of that story.

Rewiring your brain to no longer walk on eggshells is a process.  We lose ourselves in trying to please our exes.  When they're no longer around, we often still find ourselves going through the motions like they are.  I would find myself checking my phone every few seconds to see if she had text me, I would look at a menu of a restaurant I wanted to try and would wonder if J would eat anything from there, or I'd wonder if she'd like a movie I wanted to see (hint: she wouldn't.  If it wasn't a romantic movie or magic mike, she wasn't interested).  It takes time to relearn how to just be you after an encounter like this.  You may not have started out trauma bonded or codependent, but you certainly finished out this way.  It's sad, but true.

Part of why I didn't want to let go was because she was a master at intermittent reinforcement. She gave me just enough hope to keep me going.  It wasn't until I realized I'd never get that carrot at the end of the stick that I left the cycle, with no plans to return.  Up until the day I found out about her and L, she was still dangling that carrot.  When it broke open that I knew, she immediately changed course and tried to martyr herself, which I didn't let her do.  I walked away on MY terms... .which was declining her offer to be my friend.  It's funny now, I can't remember her last words to me anymore.  They don't really matter, her actions spoke loud enough.

Keep focusing on yourself and keep healing.  Keep doing good things for yourself, you deserve that.