Just separated and sad

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi there, Five weeks ago, I told my husband to leave our house and that our marriage was over. We have been married for 15 years and have two children aged 14 and 9 years. Our 15 years of marriage have been fraught with difficulties and I have spent many countless hours on the internet trying to understand what is 'wrong' with him. Last week, I came across an article on BPD and his personality traits seemed to tick many boxes. I guess, I would like to mention these 'traits' and see if other people think he could suffer from BPD. Here goes: our marriage has suffered from his irrational and unpredicatable anger outbursts which were so pointless they were never resolveable. Sometimes he would - eventually - apologise but often, he would try to pin the blame on me. I always knew that this was not my fault but felt so much pity for him, as he often seemed to feel genuinely bad and guilty about his behaviour. These outbursts were a real pattern in our marriage and it felt like walking on eggshells. I felt under pressure to try to make sure the kids were behaving etc so that he did not 'blow up' with them. At times he appeared ridiculously hypersensitive. When things began to escalate - around 5 years ago - he sought help from an online therapist. This really seemed to help his relationship with our children and he behaved in a much more appropriate way (the majority of the time) and I felt there was real hope. However, his intermittent anger outbursts with me continued to occur (mostly out of sight of the children). Of course, when this was not happening, he could be extremely funny, charming, caring etc. He holds a position of high responsibility and is utterly respected and liked by his colleagues. No-one could ever have suspected this other, less pleasant side.

He has throughout the marriage suffered from low self-esteem regarding his appearance - going bald, too thin etc etc. This has went on for years - with periods of time where he seemed quite happy about how he looked and then periods where he seemed obsessed with how he looked. Sometimes, it would dictate his mood - if he came out from the bathroom with an angry look on his face, I would know that he had not liked what he had seen in the mirror that morning. He has, as the years have gone by, seemed to manage his emotional response to how he looks better. He is, it should be noted, really quite handsome, so it was all irrational.

He has sometimes seemed to shift between personas - this great guy, really nice, easygoing - or, a man who is quite aggressive/'masculine' - swearing a lot etc or, an intellectual academic. I have noticed this, and never really understood it. Sometimes he has seemed to take on characteristics/even style of clothing of other men that he admires.

In May of last year, I found a message on his phone, where he had arranged to meet a girl - who he had been in contact with online - in a hotel. I was devastated. He swore that he had not met this girl - that he had changed his mind. He said that he had started using online porn for the past 5 months and then had switched to this online dating group and had met this girl for the first time online, but had never gone to the hotel. I will never know if this is true or not. He begged me not to leave him and said that he would "commit suicide" if I told the kids. He wrote a 6 page letter declaring his love and all the things he would do to devote himself to me and our children. We were about to move to live abroad, and I decided to give him another chance.

He saw a psychologist a couple of times but then did not make the effort to continue. Things seemed better. We agreed that when he was out socialising that he had to text me regularly and that I had to know where he was and who he was with etc.  His lying had made me feel very anxious and suspicious but I wanted to make it work. Things seemed to be going well. Then, nine months later - since the last infidelity - he began to resent my need to know where he was etc. He told me that I was "controlling". I thought perhaps he could be right, and began to 'back off' and tried to trust him more. He was behaving well functionally. Dropping the kids at playdates, taking them to sports events etc, but now, he was out for hours at a time and I did not really know where. I felt anxious but did not want to appear "controlling" and get into an argument. Five weeks ago, I looked at his phone. He had been having conversations with girls on an online dating - Tinder - where you can meet girls immediately in the area. One girl had messaged "I love you." I was so upset, but knew, that I could take no more. I insisted that he left.

For the first four weeks, the shock and the anger made me strong. I know that this marriage had to end. I cannot allow myself to be hurt anymore. However, when I read recently about BPD, I began to weaken. I began to feel real empathy and concern for him and was thinking "what if he tries to kill himself?" and was concerned about how lonely and sad he must feel and wondering what I could do to help. My mood and new found confidence really plummeted and I felt so painfully sad thinking about his pain. My friends even noticed that my dialogue had changed to focus, once again, on him and his concerns. Most of our marriage has consisted around him and his happiness. I don't want to be drawn into thinking like this again.

I would like to cut off all ties completely, but can't because of the children, who spend every second weekend with him. They know no details about what happened - except that we were "not happy". I do not see him and the thought off meeting him makes me feel anxious. I try to keep all communication formal and functional. He has, also, behaved very well in his duties since he left and this also makes me 'soften' towards him, although I am glad he is behaving appropriately in relation to our children.

Should I have done more? This question came into my head too when I read the BPD information. Maybe I should have tried to help him more. However, there is a big part of me which just keeps repeating "No. It had to end." I worry about the future, although it is his behaviour in the future which I worry about and the impact upon our children. Any advice or comments would be greatfully received. 

[Iona]

Hi there, Five weeks ago, I told my husband to leave our house and that our marriage was over. We have been married for 15 years and have two children aged 14 and 9 years. Our 15 years of marriage have been fraught with difficulties and I have spent many countless hours on the internet trying to understand what is 'wrong' with him. Last week, I came across an article on BPD and his personality traits seemed to tick many boxes. I guess, I would like to mention these 'traits' and see if other people think he could suffer from BPD. Here goes: our marriage has suffered from his irrational and unpredicatable anger outbursts which were so pointless they were never resolveable. Sometimes he would - eventually - apologise but often, he would try to pin the blame on me. I always knew that this was not my fault but felt so much pity for him, as he often seemed to feel genuinely bad and guilty about his behaviour. These outbursts were a real pattern in our marriage and it felt like walking on eggshells. I felt under pressure to try to make sure the kids were behaving etc so that he did not 'blow up' with them. At times he appeared ridiculously hypersensitive. When things began to escalate - around 5 years ago - he sought help from an online therapist. This really seemed to help his relationship with our children and he behaved in a much more appropriate way (the majority of the time) and I felt there was real hope. However, his intermittent anger outbursts with me continued to occur (mostly out of sight of the children). Of course, when this was not happening, he could be extremely funny, charming, caring etc. He holds a position of high responsibility and is utterly respected and liked by his colleagues. No-one could ever have suspected this other, less pleasant side.

He has throughout the marriage suffered from low self-esteem regarding his appearance - going bald, too thin etc etc. This has went on for years - with periods of time where he seemed quite happy about how he looked and then periods where he seemed obsessed with how he looked. Sometimes, it would dictate his mood - if he came out from the bathroom with an angry look on his face, I would know that he had not liked what he had seen in the mirror that morning. He has, as the years have gone by, seemed to manage his emotional response to how he looks better. He is, it should be noted, really quite handsome, so it was all irrational.

He has sometimes seemed to shift between personas - this great guy, really nice, easygoing - or, a man who is quite aggressive/'masculine' - swearing a lot etc or, an intellectual academic. I have noticed this, and never really understood it. Sometimes he has seemed to take on characteristics/even style of clothing of other men that he admires.

In May of last year, I found a message on his phone, where he had arranged to meet a girl - who he had been in contact with online - in a hotel. I was devastated. He swore that he had not met this girl - that he had changed his mind. He said that he had started using online porn for the past 5 months and then had switched to this online dating group and had met this girl for the first time online, but had never gone to the hotel. I will never know if this is true or not. He begged me not to leave him and said that he would "commit suicide" if I told the kids. He wrote a 6 page letter declaring his love and all the things he would do to devote himself to me and our children. We were about to move to live abroad, and I decided to give him another chance.

He saw a psychologist a couple of times but then did not make the effort to continue. Things seemed better. We agreed that when he was out socialising that he had to text me regularly and that I had to know where he was and who he was with etc.  His lying had made me feel very anxious and suspicious but I wanted to make it work. Things seemed to be going well. Then, nine months later - since the last infidelity - he began to resent my need to know where he was etc. He told me that I was "controlling". I thought perhaps he could be right, and began to 'back off' and tried to trust him more. He was behaving well functionally. Dropping the kids at playdates, taking them to sports events etc, but now, he was out for hours at a time and I did not really know where. I felt anxious but did not want to appear "controlling" and get into an argument. Five weeks ago, I looked at his phone. He had been having conversations with girls on an online dating - Tinder - where you can meet girls immediately in the area. One girl had messaged "I love you." I was so upset, but knew, that I could take no more. I insisted that he left.

For the first four weeks, the shock and the anger made me strong. I know that this marriage had to end. I cannot allow myself to be hurt anymore. However, when I read recently about BPD, I began to weaken. I began to feel real empathy and concern for him and was thinking "what if he tries to kill himself?" and was concerned about how lonely and sad he must feel and wondering what I could do to help. My mood and new found confidence really plummeted and I felt so painfully sad thinking about his pain. My friends even noticed that my dialogue had changed to focus, once again, on him and his concerns. Most of our marriage has consisted around him and his happiness. I don't want to be drawn into thinking like this again.

I would like to cut off all ties completely, but can't because of the children, who spend every second weekend with him. They know no details about what happened - except that we were "not happy". I do not see him and the thought off meeting him makes me feel anxious. I try to keep all communication formal and functional. He has, also, behaved very well in his duties since he left and this also makes me 'soften' towards him, although I am glad he is behaving appropriately in relation to our children.

Should I have done more? This question came into my head too when I read the BPD information. Maybe I should have tried to help him more. However, there is a big part of me which just keeps repeating "No. It had to end." I worry about the future, although it is his behaviour in the future which I worry about and the impact upon our children. Any advice or comments would be greatfully received. 

[married21years]

well done stay strong 

read read and read some more

if he threatens suicide call the autorities

good luck and stay strong 

[Iona]

Thanks. I guess this means you think that I did the right thing. Does it sound like BPD to you? I don't know why this should matter as it is over. At least it helps me undeerstand. I just want to avoid thinking of him as a 'victim' as then I feel I should be helping him. If he does have BPD, he could still have taken more responsibility himself, right? I guess I want someone to remind me that I should focus on myself and my kids and feel guilt free about that. I am not used to putting myself first!

[jhkbuzz]

Things seemed better. We agreed that when he was out socialising that he had to text me regularly and that I had to know where he was and who he was with etc.  His lying had made me feel very anxious and suspicious but I wanted to make it work. Things seemed to be going well. Then, nine months later - since the last infidelity - he began to resent my need to know where he was etc. He told me that I was "controlling". I thought perhaps he could be right, and began to 'back off' and tried to trust him more. He was behaving well functionally. Dropping the kids at playdates, taking them to sports events etc, but now, he was out for hours at a time and I did not really know where. I felt anxious but did not want to appear "controlling" and get into an argument.

This sounds like my story, too. I gave her a second chance. When she started locking her phone again (and I questioned her about it) she said I was controlling. I backed off.  As it all turned out, she was having an affair. When I finally caught her, our r/s ended.

My friends even noticed that my dialogue had changed to focus, once again, on him and his concerns. Most of our marriage has consisted around him and his happiness. I don't want to be drawn into thinking like this again.

My r/s was like this too. When I started to see a therapist as the r/s was ending, she used to ask me questions about what I wanted and what I was feeling - and I had absolutely no idea. This is what happens when you are emotionally involved with someone with a mental illness (and you're not careful and maintaining your boundaries, which I wasn't) - you lose yourself completely.

Turn some of that concern for him towards yourself (and your children). I had an excessive amount of sympathy/empathy for my ex as well, and it almost destroyed me. I have slowly "found" myself again and, with time and distance, I can look back and recognize what a nightmare my life had become. My sympathy for her was so excessive that I completely abandoned myself.

Affairs are a dealbreaker for me; they aren't for everyone, but they are for me. Are they for you as well? If they are, stay strong because if you go back, that's what you'll be going back to. A r/s where trust is non-existent and sexual infidelity is the norm. Frankly, that sounds like hell on earth to me - and it's why I'd personally never go back.

I read a quote somewhere that really resonated with me: "I should have loved myself with the love I gave to you." Indeed, I should have. You too.

On a side note: the thoughts you are having (sympathetic towards him) are not you - they are separate from you, and you can choose to discard them because they aren't helpful. Next time you catch yourself worrying about him, say something outloud to break the pattern, i.e. "No, I choose to love and care for myself right now - and that includes protecting myself from people who would hurt me." You'll be surprised - a practice like this will begin to curb those thoughts.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Iona.



The behaviours you describe sound quite familiar to me and I'm sure posting here will help you to understand what you have been through. You've taken a big step forward in looking after yourself and I want to applaud you. How are you coping with the changes that have taken place in your life?

When I first joined this forum, I had got to a point where I had massive self-doubts and my sense of reality had been totally undermined. Overcoming those doubts and beginning to trust myself is an ongoing process for me.  I have struggled with feeling obligated to do more to help. I felt guilty for wanting to walk away from someone in tremendous pain. I felt guilty that I didn't 'love' him more even though I loved him with all my heart. I so wanted to believe that if I'd only done more or done it differently, he would have been healed and we would have lived happily ever after. I bet lots of people here have felt the same.

I wonder whether his diagnosis is a red herring. I'm not sure knowing my BPDxbf was officially diagnosed particularly helped me. I knew his diagnosis when I went into the relationship but I still ended up with a characteristic set of psychological problems from being in relationship with him. Perhaps the emotions you are experiencing are as much an indication of his diagnosis as his behaviour is.

Anyway, I think you are wise to focus upon your own healing. Can I recommend these articles? They were very helpful to me, though my understanding of them has deepened over time:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

Love Lifewriter

[Iona]

 Hi jhkbuzz,

Thankyou so much for taking the time to write a thoughtful response to my email. You gave me a lot to think about. Thanks especially for the practical advice in your last paragraph (a big help!) I will try this strategy.

"she used to ask me questions about what I wanted" My husband would not ask me what I wanted, but would tell me angrily what I wanted "Mr Perfect" and that he could not be that and so I should "leave" if that was what I wanted. I would argue back that I only wanted to be spoken to "with respect". He would usually shout me down. In my own mind, I would tell myself that he was "ill" or something was "wrong" with him. Although I felt angry, I also strongly believed that I was right and felt pity for him. I think my strong belief combined with the fact we had children, kept me going. However, I think that you are right and I "abandoned" myself too. This is something that I am now trying to focus on and remember.



"Affairs are a dealbreaker for me; they aren't for everyone, but they are for me. Are they for you as well?"

I think that if you live with someone who is already causing you grief/pain/anxiety through their behaviour, and that you are trying to be kind/patient/understanding and then something else appears - infidelity - then, for me, it was all too much (especially after a previous infidelity which I tried to move on from).  I think, anyway, it depends on "affair". Humans sometimes make errors. A person can make a wrong choice and be genuinely regretful and, perhaps, can be forgiven. You can be married and fall in love with the person you work with in close proximity and leave your spouse. None of these things are morally right, but they are understandable. I feel heartbroken that my husband eventually destroyed our family through seeking out some anonymous girls on a dating site.   This was premeditated and was, for me, different. I guess, it reinforced the idea that he really had a problem.

[jhkbuzz]

"she used to ask me questions about what I wanted"

I was talking about my therapist in that ^ sentence - not my ex.

"Affairs are a dealbreaker for me; they aren't for everyone, but they are for me. Are they for you as well?"

I think that if you live with someone who is already causing you grief/pain/anxiety through their behaviour, and that you are trying to be kind/patient/understanding and then something else appears - infidelity - then, for me, it was all too much (especially after a previous infidelity which I tried to move on from).  I think, anyway, it depends on "affair". Humans sometimes make errors. A person can make a wrong choice and be genuinely regretful and, perhaps, can be forgiven. You can be married and fall in love with the person you work with in close proximity and leave your spouse. None of these things are morally right, but they are understandable. I feel heartbroken that my husband eventually destroyed our family through seeking out some anonymous girls on a dating site.   This was premeditated and was, for me, different. I guess, it reinforced the idea that he really had a problem.

Yes, I had those EXACT same conversations with myself with the first infidelity, and specifically spent time trying to decide if her infidelity was a "one time human error/weakness" or if it represented a fatal type of character flaw. I used the info I had at the time, and decided it was a "one time mistake."  I was wrong, however - there's a reason they call BPD a "character disorder."

What this means in practical terms is that the behaviors won't stop. They won't stop because someone with BPD has disordered thinking - and they have a difficult time recognizing that there is something wrong with their thought processing until long after the fact - if ever. I understand all of this today, which is why I'd never go back. I'd just be signing up for more of the same.

And that's not to say that there aren't perfectly lovely and wonderful things about my ex - there are. But the pain of the emotional rollercoaster isn't something I'm interested in - I know too much now.

[Iona]

Thanks jhkbuzz,

You have given me a bit more insight and helped make me think my decision to end my marriage was the right one. On a similar note: what is the difference between someone with BPD and someone who is just 'not very nice'.

Just wanted to pose that question... .as it's on my mind!

[jhkbuzz]

Thanks jhkbuzz,

You have given me a bit more insight and helped make me think my decision to end my marriage was the right one. On a similar note: what is the difference between someone with BPD and someone who is just 'not very nice'.

Just wanted to pose that question... .as it's on my mind!

Check out this link - it's going to explain things much better than I can!

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles2a.htm

If the above ^ is too "clinical", try this:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331266#msg1331266

[Iona]

Thanks - those articles were really helpful.