my struggle with jade-ing

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am doing quite well with MOST of what I've learned over the last year, in terms of how I can be better support to my pwBPD.  We are BOTH doing quite well with most of it, truth be told.  So, before I delve into what's NOT going so well, I want to stop and give us both a big pat on the back.  Focusing on the positive is important to me, and really is probably my #1 "tool" at all times! 

Where I always seem to get stuck is the temptation to JADE (Justify, argue, defend, explain).  I think it happens the most often early in the morning when I am not quite fully "awake" yet (i.e. haven't had my coffee).  Her outbursts always take me by surprise, but even more so in the mornings.  And lately she's been having nightmares, so she's waking up in a bad headspace sometimes.

We are working on her communication skills, in terms of vocalizing when she's had nightmares, or when her stress level is increasing (and have seen small improvements, little by little).  But she's still practicing, and doesn't always remember to communicate such things.  So we'll just be sitting there, rubbing the sleep from our eyes one minute (waiting for that coffee to brew), and the next minute I'm getting yelled at over something she's taken out of context, misinterpreted, or misunderstood.  It feels like I got hit by a bus that I never saw coming.

It's becoming a pattern, in fact.  It's happened once a week for the past month.  And that part is not surprising.  She's getting promoted at work, so there is stress #1.  And she is currently "integrating" (which is a term within the Dissociative Identity Disorder community that means she is becoming "whole"; putting her "personalities" back together to form "one", and that is definitely stress #2.  It takes a lot of bravery, what she is doing... .and it makes her face things she has repressed for a LONG time.

So forgiving her outbursts, once I get over the shock of them, is the easy part.  The difficult part for me is getting through the shock... .and that's when I get tempted to JADE.  I am so shocked in the moment, I find it very hard not to take her verbal assaults personally.  Sometimes (yes, even in the mornings) I am able to at least restrain myself enough to just say, "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to give me a few minutes before I can respond... .and, is that coffee ready yet?", which is usually good enough to curb the outburst.  But most of the times in the morning, I can't seem to stop myself from jade-ing!  ugh!

I say things like, "But... .I didn't mean it THAT way... ." or "Whoa!  You are WAY over-blowing this!"  And, well, you can imagine how that goes over.  It's like pouring gasoline on a fire.

It's gotten to the point where I almost want to ask if we can just agree to NOT TALK for like the first hour we are awake, but that seems ridiculous and I just KNOW I can do better than that with more practice.

I don't know if I'm really asking a question or not.  But I'd love to hear feedback anyway.  Okay, wait, here is a question:  Have any of you gotten better with practice, so to speak?  I wonder if it begins to come naturally after awhile.  I do know I've been doing MUCH better with outbursts that occur later in the day, when I am wide awake, so that must mean something.

[halcyon]

I am doing quite well with MOST of what I've learned over the last year, in terms of how I can be better support to my pwBPD.  We are BOTH doing quite well with most of it, truth be told.  So, before I delve into what's NOT going so well, I want to stop and give us both a big pat on the back.  Focusing on the positive is important to me, and really is probably my #1 "tool" at all times! 

Where I always seem to get stuck is the temptation to JADE (Justify, argue, defend, explain).  I think it happens the most often early in the morning when I am not quite fully "awake" yet (i.e. haven't had my coffee).  Her outbursts always take me by surprise, but even more so in the mornings.  And lately she's been having nightmares, so she's waking up in a bad headspace sometimes.

We are working on her communication skills, in terms of vocalizing when she's had nightmares, or when her stress level is increasing (and have seen small improvements, little by little).  But she's still practicing, and doesn't always remember to communicate such things.  So we'll just be sitting there, rubbing the sleep from our eyes one minute (waiting for that coffee to brew), and the next minute I'm getting yelled at over something she's taken out of context, misinterpreted, or misunderstood.  It feels like I got hit by a bus that I never saw coming.

It's becoming a pattern, in fact.  It's happened once a week for the past month.  And that part is not surprising.  She's getting promoted at work, so there is stress #1.  And she is currently "integrating" (which is a term within the Dissociative Identity Disorder community that means she is becoming "whole"; putting her "personalities" back together to form "one", and that is definitely stress #2.  It takes a lot of bravery, what she is doing... .and it makes her face things she has repressed for a LONG time.

So forgiving her outbursts, once I get over the shock of them, is the easy part.  The difficult part for me is getting through the shock... .and that's when I get tempted to JADE.  I am so shocked in the moment, I find it very hard not to take her verbal assaults personally.  Sometimes (yes, even in the mornings) I am able to at least restrain myself enough to just say, "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to give me a few minutes before I can respond... .and, is that coffee ready yet?", which is usually good enough to curb the outburst.  But most of the times in the morning, I can't seem to stop myself from jade-ing!  ugh!

I say things like, "But... .I didn't mean it THAT way... ." or "Whoa!  You are WAY over-blowing this!"  And, well, you can imagine how that goes over.  It's like pouring gasoline on a fire.

It's gotten to the point where I almost want to ask if we can just agree to NOT TALK for like the first hour we are awake, but that seems ridiculous and I just KNOW I can do better than that with more practice.

I don't know if I'm really asking a question or not.  But I'd love to hear feedback anyway.  Okay, wait, here is a question:  Have any of you gotten better with practice, so to speak?  I wonder if it begins to come naturally after awhile.  I do know I've been doing MUCH better with outbursts that occur later in the day, when I am wide awake, so that must mean something.

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[once removed]

practice will certainly help. your responses, or lack there of, will tend to naturally become more constructive/productive with that practice.

sometimes a little bit of E (explaining) is necessary. if someone misunderstands you, its okay to state that that was not what you meant. the risk is that it can still be received as invalidating, and it can open the door wider to circular arguments; theres certainly no use in restating it.

when you try "i didnt mean it that way", what response do you tend to be met with? does it make matters worse?

[halcyon]

when you try "i didnt mean it that way", what response do you tend to be met with? does it make matters worse?

Well, yes.  But you've made me realize something.

When I JADE, I'm not even remembering to validate first.  I'm just going straight to JADE.  I think the E (explaining) would work much better if I remembered to validate first.  Meaning, say something like, "I can understand how you could have interpreted it that way, and it makes sense you'd be upset right now.  But, I really didn't mean it like that.  What I meant was... .(fill in the blank)."

And, now that I'm thinking about it, that is how it usually goes when she dysregulates later in the day.  Like I've said, it's just in the mornings I forget my "steps".  I just go straight to jade-ing.  And she interprets that as invalidation.  It doesn't help that I have a "tone" when I say it either... .I believe this is a matter of me having less patience with her when I'm not fully awake yet.

The good news is this: once her dysregulation ends, she can see we are both human, and thus prone to imperfections. .  It's also good news that her dysregulation has been ending sooner.  It used to take her 6 to 7 hours to "cool down"; now it takes only about 2.  

I'm glad to hear this becomes more natural  That gives me a lot of hope going forward.

[once removed]

I think the E (explaining) would work much better if I remembered to validate first.  Meaning, say something like, "I can understand how you could have interpreted it that way, and it makes sense you'd be upset right now.  But, I really didn't mean it like that.  What I meant was... .(fill in the blank)."

i agree; thats a much more constructive approach. that bit of validation first allows a person to be heard, otherwise the first thing they "hear" is "you are wrong, and you are wrong to feel the way that you do".

ive had that issue with nons plenty of times in my life. just sending that message of "i can definitely see how my words came off that way" can make all the difference, and its not agreeing, or validating the invalid.

[waverider]

Couple of things helped me with this.

First accept that no matter how much you learn you will react with JADE sometimes, don't guilt yourself over it. The fact that you recognise what you did and so can pull back and deescalate is the main thing

The second trick is to get into the habit of slowing down your response whether it be JADE or a more appropriate response. This then becomes your nature, it provides you with a buffer. Even validating responses then carry more weight as they appear more thoughtful.

Knee jerk reactions dilute the good and exacerbate the bad

[RedPill]

I can understand the need to JADE before validating. Usually I would be so shocked, surprised, and stung by ustbxBPDw's negative interpretation of something I said or something that happened that JADE would just tumble out of my mouth. I learned too late about validating, unfortunately.
--
RP

[starfox]

So forgiving her outbursts, once I get over the shock of them, is the easy part.  The difficult part for me is getting through the shock... .and that's when I get tempted to JADE.  I am so shocked in the moment, I find it very hard not to take her verbal assaults personally.  Sometimes (yes, even in the mornings) I am able to at least restrain myself enough to just say, "I'm sorry, but you're going to have to give me a few minutes before I can respond... .and, is that coffee ready yet?", which is usually good enough to curb the outburst.  But most of the times in the morning, I can't seem to stop myself from jade-ing!  ugh!

I can relate to you so much in this instance! It's really hard for me to remember this stuff in the morning, which is often a time when these moments can occur in my own relationship (for different reasons, but the timing is the same). Some of us are just not "on it" first thing in the morning and that's OK. We can learn to get better at it, but it takes time and practice. I want to commend you for your restrained response too--even if it doesn't get into the issue just yet, it definitely addresses your own needs in the moment (especially in how you can be there for your partner after), which is important.

Due to my being so out of it in the morning, I am actually thinking of setting up a boundary where we can't talk for the first 20-30 minutes after I'm up, but I'm not sure how it will go. I've tried in the past but I've also broken it myself.

Also want to give you a huge high five for the positive steps you listed. I think it all takes time, like you said, and it will begin to feel more natural. No one is totally perfect at it 100% of the time, because like you said we are all imperfection-prone humans

[Letloverule]

thank you for sharing. I too struggle with jade-ing immensely.
It appears that we get caught off guard and have to work through the shock on a consistent basis. When I am the saint and get showered with love, I have found myself thinking "but when will the other shoe drop?"
I'm slowly realizing that I can only expect the next cycle. It's not helpful to my state of mind to try and preserve peace at all costs or to claw my way back  to peace via jade once I get raged at.

recently I have swung the other direction. the insults, volume and tone get worse and I grit my teeth and clench my fists and feel my heart racing. I respond in one or two words "sorry", "ok", "yeah" and now I'm accused of being rigid and robotic. Equally invalidating to the pwBPD.
it's very challenging not to take things personally. some people on here are pros at this and I hear that it's radical acceptance and practice that helps.

All the best to you. You're not alone.

[5xFive]

Thank you for your post. This is what I struggle with the most! Sometimes the sentences that come from my uBPDh are SO irrational that I can't help myself. I'm horrible at validating his feelings and I truly excel at jadeing. Sometimes so much so that I don't even realize I'm doing it until he screams that he doesn't need my excuses! But really, can anyone help me learn how to react when my h is accusing me of something that truly did not happen in reality? Do I just keep silent? I don't know how to validate this. Actions that took place that he insists never happened, or things that NEVER happened that he's angry about. How do you all validate your SO when something like this happens? How do you keep from jadeing?

[MrRight]

Thank you for your post. This is what I struggle with the most! Sometimes the sentences that come from my uBPDh are SO irrational that I can't help myself. I'm horrible at validating his feelings and I truly excel at jadeing. Sometimes so much so that I don't even realize I'm doing it until he screams that he doesn't need my excuses! But really, can anyone help me learn how to react when my h is accusing me of something that truly did not happen in reality? Do I just keep silent? I don't know how to validate this. Actions that took place that he insists never happened, or things that NEVER happened that he's angry about. How do you all validate your SO when something like this happens? How do you keep from jadeing?

Unjust interpretations of the past - accusations etc - corrupt statements. Nothing there to be validated - does silence imply validation? Definately not. For me anyway - it's the only way - silence. I am often invited to regret a perfectly sensible action in the past as a means of regulating her feelings. what to do? That's the worst as she will not move on until she has from me - a show of remorse about something in the past she feels I did wrong.

[waverider]

You validate that you hear what they are saying and how it makes them feel. You dont attempt to validate or debunk the facts, that leads to you either validating the invalid or JADE.

eg
"Is that what you believe happened? That must have annoyed you"

Dont push a resolution, not even if that is to agree to disagree. Dont buy their reality nor sell them yours. Each person is entitled to their own version. Just give them the space to believe their beliefs.

Often they push in an aggressive way as they are preempting your denials.

[5xFive]

MrRight, exactly!
I often find myself saying that I'm sure I must have remembered wrong which is a LIE just to de-escalate the situation. And it does. He will then move on bc he feels, as you said, that he has received the show of remorse that he's looking for. Of course it comes back to bite me in the future bc then he pushes me to admit that my memory is horrible and why would I think I'm remembering something correctly when I can't remember what happened 5 mins ago! Lol. Definitely need another response!
Waverider, thank you. That is a great empathy statement and I do try, but I find that my uBPDh feels I'm being insincere and it makes him even more angry! I probably need to work on my tone and my body language. I have a hard time with SET.
You're right of course that everyone needs the space to believe their beliefs. It's just so hard when I'm devalued and I don't think I did anything wrong. I wonder why he sticks around if I'm such a horrible person and then I get defensive. I couldn't possibly be that bad! And then the jadeing begins anew. Lol.

[WitzEndWife]

Oh man, I struggle too. I think it's because, with people who are non-BPD, JADE-ing usually works. So, that's why we're used to it. It's a lifelong learned response to criticism. And, if you're like me, try as you might, it's really difficult not to take that criticism personally. It's like being slapped in the face and training yourself not to flinch or react.

H's comments or accusations are often really hurtful. I'm sensitive, I can't help it. My reaction is to JADE. And I accept that I won't always perfectly deflect these kinds of arguments. However, one thing I've learned is to ask him about how he's feeling when he makes an accusation. Such as:

Him: "You're too sensitive."
Me: "Why do you think so?"
Him: "Because you're always getting upset over non-issues."
Me: "What are non-issues to you?"
Etc.

That way, he is able to reflect and be validated at the same time. He feels heard because I'm asking him questions about his thoughts and feelings, but simultaneously he also is able to eventually be talked down and realize he's being unnecessarily unkind, without me having to explain or defend myself.

[waverider]

However, one thing I've learned is to ask him about how he's feeling when he makes an accusation.

This is important as you are making it about his feelings, and showing specific interest. This is ultimately most validating, as long as its not done in a cynical or incredulous way. It also deflects from probing your reality

[starfox]

This is important as you are making it about his feelings, and showing specific interest. This is ultimately most validating, as long as its not done in a cynical or incredulous way. It also deflects from probing your reality

This is really helpful! Thank you.