manipulative/knowingly deceptive just in one instance or always?

[carrotscarrots]

I have a bf who I believe has uBPD. I have never had any reason to believe that he is deceptive in way, shape or form. Sure, he has been manipulative at times (mostly passive aggressive ways including silent treatment or shutting down emotionally, etc.) but to be fair, I have my own fair share of manipulative/control issues as well.

Anyway, I've never had any reason to think that he has lied or hid anything from me (we've been together about 3 years). But then, something out of the ordinary happened recently and his defense for it is an odd one (it still leaves some questions unanswered, is not satisfying to me), BUT there is also some evidence that partially supports his defense AND he really and truly seemed to be sincere. (For the past several months, things in our relationship have been really really good (which some minor things here and there, but both of us are quicker to take responsibility for our own issues, etc., and dysregulation and conflicts don't last nearly as long as they used to).

I guess my question is "If there has been no history of lying/willful deception [at least, to my knowledge], how common is it for a pwBPD to suddenly lie out of the blue (particularly about something pretty important)?" Is lying a common issue people have dealt with in relationships with pwBPD ?(I tend to get the sense that is more common with pwNPD but maybe I am wrong?)

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[hope2727]

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I can only speak from my experience. My pwBPD was brutally honest for the first year or so. It was almost a point to pride for him. Then suddenly the tables turned and he started being deceptive and lying. In retrospect he was likely misrepresenting things all along but he believed them so I believed him. Its a weird dynamic. All I can tell you is that if your gut tells you something is up it likely is. Trust your instincts. Mine ALWAYS turned out to be bang on. Yours likely will too. Mine liked to leave just enough plausibility to wiggle out of the truth. Or just enough wiggle room to blame someone else. Be careful and smart. I am sure you will be fine.

[Jami]

Hi Carrots,

i've had r/s with both NPD and BPD. Though i am no mental health professional, i can attempt to share my insights. As i experienced it, my NPD tended to "lie" to enhance and embellish his Self in the eyes of others. He did it mechanically, without perceiving any wrong in it, because being adored and admired was part of his existential needs. I could sense that there was some calculation in his deceptive behaviour (i do it because i want to achieve result XY) and that, therefore, it was overtly manipulative and intentional.

My experience with BPD was totally different. Though displaying narcissistic rages, my Person rarely seemed to be narcissistically deceptive, but rather wishing to cover up "shameful truths". Having learned more about BPD after the r/s ended, i can link this tendency to his deep belief that he would become unacceptable and unlovable if i was to find out who he really is.
Along the way, he often surprised me with statements that revealed his low self-esteem and sounded almost like a warning (what on earth are you doing with a guy like me?). But then, typically, he would react aggressively, give me the silent treatment or withdraw emotionally if i attempted to come closer to what he was really up to. In essence, he never really took a clear position at all. He would often say yes to things, plans and options, but rarely followed through with consistent actions.

I believe there has been a lot of mirroring (i am too bad for her to love me if i show myself, so i'll just play a role with which she can identify and be content), while all his endeavours, zeal, contributions, good will etc. were essentially superficial. The visible top of the iceberg, the rest remaining hidden. He played a role and hoped that i would not discover the truth beneath it. He would also conceal the darker parts of himself, as long as he was stable enough to do so, by giving me fragments of truth or abstract explanations that never allowed me to get the full picture. Toward the end, once he felt that i had come too dangerously close to unveiling him, his "lying" augmented significantly and ultimately led me to lose faith in him and doubt everything he would state or do.

In conclusion, i could say that his "lying", or covering-up, was coming from a very different place than the one i experienced with my NPD. In many ways, it provoked a more compassionate and patient response (a wish to enhance the self-confidence of BPD versus to diminish the self-confidence of NPD). Then again, my BPD was rather low functioning, with addiction problems and dysregulating, especially in the last few months that preceded our separation.

Experiences are individual and by no means mine should be taken as an "apply-to-all". In case you feel something is off, however, i agree with Hope who suggests your gut is never wrong. When my head wasn't romancing too much and embellishing things that shouldn't be embellished, my gut feeling was always right.

Hope that this may be helpful and wishing you good,

Jami



 

[carrotscarrots]

Thanks Hope and Jami for the kind words and helpful insights.  Still actually trying to sort out what my gut IS telling me. :/

[hope2727]

Carrots what Jami said makes total sense to me. I couldn't have explained it better myself. I love my person more than I can even understand. But every time I suspected something was amiss it always turned out to be far worse than even I suspected. Please be careful and take care of yourself. Verify all facts from multiple sources and don't discount your feelings. I wish I had listened to my inner voice more closely. Perhaps I would have prevented myself some suffering.

Keep posting. There are amazing people in here who have toms of experience and knowledge. You are not alone.

[lostandconfused6]

Jami explained that so well!

I won't bother you with the details of the deception and lies my BPDbf has presented to me but they are def there but of course me being my snoopy self (and also certain things just coming out on their own) i have caught them almost every time... .and when presented to him he reacts aggressively and in his own under handed way has actually tried to justify what he's done sometimes. (i'm assuming justifying it was to make himself feel less like a piece of crap)

He wants more than anything in this world for me to take his word and just believe it but because of past situations it is hard for me and he will make plans and promise he's sticking to them  then a couple weeks later he changes his mind and he doesn't comprehend that to me this all goes hand in hand with "his word" What Jami said makes so much sense about hiding "shameful truths" what he lied to be about was beyond shameful and he admits it (i still have a question of why he did it and lied about it multiple times i can assume it has to do with abandonment or attachment issues but i don't think i'll ever get that answer) My BPDbf has also flat out said he doesn't know why i'm with him and he doesn't deserve me

I have a lot of fears and worries because of the situation that the lies were told about but to him it's nothing and he doesn't see why i worry about it because "he learned his lesson" but i heard that so many times... ."his intentions are what matters even if his actions don't match them" is the most frustrating thing i've heard come from him

sorry i'm rambaling but i feel for you and trust your brain and gut! I hope the best for you!