This woman is out of my league. I can't understand why she wants to be with me.

[Hisaccount]

This is highly individual, so take it fwiw, but a woman moving to my area long distance just for the r/s, who says she hopes you get married one day... .drops not only her mail friends but her female friends too. That feels uncomfortably fast for me. Especially LD, she has kids, you're not over the trauma of your r/s w/BP. These would all warning signals for me, not necessarily to cut things loose but definitely to take it slow.
My 2 cents.

Believe me my mind has been working every possible angle on it too.

But you have to put things into perspective. This is one thing I hated about my Therapist. If I defended something or tried to hard to rationalize it she would stop me.
But apparently I didn't explain well enough the first time is what I would tell her.

It is funny how many people mention her dropping her male friends. I posted on a forum of my industry peers, we see a lot of relationships fail due to the nature of the business. Spouses being gone a couple nights a week at least.

I guess I just don't see anything wrong with a woman dropping the guys she was dating or talking to about dating.
Is there something wrong with that? I mean when you enter an exclusive relationship. Do you really want the person you are dating hanging around, or talking to people she met for the purpose of dating?

This is not something I asked her to do. She did is out of respect, and I did the same for her. Stopped talking to all the girls I was talking to with the intention of dating.

As we share computers I saw one of the notes she sent off, it simply said Hey, I have a boyfriend, he is a great guy and it is not fair to you or him to keep conversing with you. So good luck.

Emotional or physical infidelity is not okay at any stage of a relationship. At least I will never accept that. If I have to share my gal, well then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Yet she has male friends. I have met them. She has had them for 20 years. But she doesn't ever do anything with them and hasn't for years beyond the occasional FB message or happy birthday text.

For me I can rationalize everything that happened and why. But then that is why I am posting about it here. To see if my thinking is incorrect.

Funny note, well funny to me. I saw a picture of her in a bathing suit hanging off of a guy, drinking at the lake from a few years back. Did not look very appropriate. He is still one of her friends. She could tell I was not very thrilled that she was still hanging around him, so she took me over and introduced me to his husband. LOL

So is it still wrong for her to drop her male friends in the context I just laid out?
If so then I am just done. No amount of therapy can ever make me accept that I have to share my woman.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

So is it still wrong for her to drop her male friends in the context I just laid out?
If so then I am just done. No amount of therapy can ever make me accept that I have to share my woman.

I didn't think that the first time you wrote it or now.

The biggest concern in this relationship is the speed at which you got involved in a serious relationship after your 10 year marriage. It would be more typical to go a couple of years before cohabitation with a new partner and children who you are raising as your own. You are showing the signs of stress that one would expect from someone who didn't take an extended break between relationships to recalibrate. You are second guessing whether you have the mental clarity to evaluate a new relationship. This is real stuff.

I think you accept this.

The harder question, is what do you do now? Blow up this relationship with paranoid thoughts? That's not good move, either.

Slowing it down was a good idea.    Hopefully you can do it in a way that doesn't make her think you are getting cold feet.

Do you have much of a life outside of this relationship to help you recalibrate yourself? Raising two children can be all consuming. Having a life independent of the relationship is healthy.

I think it would be wrong to shift this into a suspicious examination of your partner. A lot of members are "paranoid" after these relationships because they did not get a good handle on what constitutes a healthy relationship following their "BPD" relationship. Many don't take the time to inventory what was pathology and what was just relationship stuff.

I'd focus on creating a healthy environment for yourself and developing interests outside the relationship as well as co-interests with your new partner and others.  I'd also spend time thinking about what a healthy relationship is and getting clear where your last relationship was broken.

[takingandsending]

I'd focus on creating a healthy environment for yourself and developing interests outside the relationship as well as co-interests with your new partner and others.  I'd also spend time thinking about what a healthy relationship is and getting clear where your last relationship was broken.

Hi Hisaccount. This is the path I hope you take. I am totally rooting for you and your partner. You've both been through a lot. There's the possibility for establishing empathy and support for each other. But it will last if you build it to last. And the postmortem deep dive through your last relationship can help if you can do the work. Everyone of us has flaws, has stuff we wrestle with. Shining a light on that, knowing it, being willing to be uncomfortable in our skin is part of healing that can help us not eliminate those issues but recognize them and find a better vehicle for how they function in our day to day life.

Maybe you can let her know that you both want to be in a relationship with her but also do the work on yourself that you need to be a strong, healthy partner (and step parent). It may not even be a bad idea for you to find a couples counselor that you see together. Just my thoughts.

Wishing you the best of luck and success.

[spacecadet]

I never said you should share your woman with other men romantically.

There's a huge difference between ending romantic connections with other men and dropping all her platonic male and female friends including 20-year friendships. That's not healthy imo.

Here's the thing. It's four months in, if I read you right. That's very soon to be moving closer just bc of the r/s. It would be different if she had already decided to relocate to your area, but I didn't read that. Four months is also very soon for you to be taking on parenting duties with her kids or talking about marriage and proposals. (to dream? maybe )

Four months is the fantasy stage of a r/s, it can certainly be sufficient to make us care for someone, feel a strong attraction, be ready for/begin intimacy, want to know more about him/her, and to become monogamous. But this point in a r/s, whether in the same area or LDR, is right at the precipice between the fantasy-mirroring period and the "getting to know the real person" period. People let their hair down from 4-6 months in to 1-2 years in, and depending on how astute both people are and the work they've done on themselves and their past r/s, it's in this period that both are able to assess where things might be going long term.

On top of that is that you haven't had time alone to unpack who YOU are following a 10-year marriage, and that takes time be it a troubled or healthy marriage. You may want to focus on some activities that will facilitate this process whether counseling, renewing old friendships, journaling, creative expression etc.

As said before, take what I say to whatever extent it is helpful to you, and if none if it is helpful it's yours to dismiss.

Be well and take care of yourself, you deserve all good things.

[Skip]

There's a huge difference between having romantic connections with other men and "dropping her male AND female friends." Platonic friends. That's not healthy imo. Now, her telling her male friends she's in an exclusive, r/s, that makes lots of sense and is a good sign.

We're with you.  

Here's the thing. It's four months in, if I read you right. That's very soon to be moving closer just bc of the r/s. It doesn't sound like she was already planning to relocate to your area, but maybe she was. Yet 4 months is also very soon for you to be taking on parenting duties with her kids or talking about marriage and proposals. (to dream? maybe)

Absolutely. We're all with you on this, too.

The challenge is to find a mature way to harvest the good out of this situation and, at the same time, to get on a healthier pathway.

We're all family here... .just kicking things around for Hisaccount... .offering our best... .we all have different ideas and experiences to pull from... .all valid. 

[Hisaccount]

Thanks skip,
You have refocused it well.

Guys, I am not offended by anything you have to say, Rather I respect and appreciate all of it. I know you have my best interests in mind.

I never said you should share your woman with other men romantically.

Didn't mean to sound snappy, when talking to someone or posting online the direction you expect or want something to go, well that never happens. LOL
That isn't the only thing that bothers me about details and context. That was just and easy one to explain.
When I posted I made the mistake and made assumptions on things like that, of course not everybody is in the same place I am so very easy to see why those things get picked up.

I kind of think this whole thread got derailed. It is someplace no where near where I started.

I do have an update. I got to see her last night. But of course the kids came along so we did not get to talk like we planned. But I was able to examine my feelings and the way different things made me feel.

Last night was different than the previous couple of visits. She clung onto me all night. Rather than me clinging onto her. I don't believe I ever gave her any indication that I needed that. So it was awesome that she did it of her free will.
Those actions validated me I guess? They said she wants to be with me.

Driving home I still felt some fear that I will lose her, but not by anything I do.

This is a marathon not a sprint.

[livednlearned]

The paranoia you feel may simply be that you trust actions more than words.

Which is smart 

You may get a surge of contentment from love-bombing words.

Yet, history tells you these words can mask opposite actions. "I love you" followed by bad actions that are hurtful, mean, or abusive.

That's why going slow soothes the nervous system. It allows you to compare and contrast the words with the actions, over and over until you aren't testing all the time.

What do you think about seeing a couples counselor, like talkingandsending suggested?

[Hisaccount]

Going back to the self esteem, fear, insecurity, self hatred issue I have that I didn't think I have.

I was doing some reading and going over some material and I started to remember the problems I had going through it, also talked about this with my therapist and never got an answer that satisfied me. Maybe there isn't one because I am looking at it wrong.

At what point does confidence broach arrogance?
For an example confidence would say I could have any mate I wanted. But isn't that actually arrogance? It is certainly not realistic. To say that we are just lying to ourselves.
It always reminded me of the motivational tapes. "I am a tiger"  "I am invincible" "I am king of the jungle" Pfft, No I am not. LOL
So I say instead that any woman would be lucky to have me and I do believe that.

But see what I did there? I skirted the issue without ever digging in and comprehending what it was trying to teach me.

Yep, I cheated on my homework.   

Another thing that I ignored because I didn't take the time to comprehend it. I felt like all the rebuilding and growth I was supposed to do, it sounded like being with someone was like a grocery list.
Validation, happiness and joy should come from within me.
Kind of saying, when my life is complete without someone, then it is okay to add someone.

Really? If I am complete without someone, then why add someone?

Then talk about relationships and dating, finding someone who is a good match that makes our lives better, that makes us better.
Sounds like a shopping list doesn't it?

I don't want that. I want head over heals in love. I want to have feelings for a woman I cannot control, I want her in my every thought, I don't want to be able to keep my hands off her, I want to feel like I can never do enough for her because she is that special to me,  I want to feel like I will die without her.

If that ever happens, it would never be on recovery timeline.

And that is what I am saying, I think I found that and I want to grab on with both hands and not let go, but I am scared.

[Hisaccount]

What do you think about seeing a couples counselor, like talkingandsending suggested?

I love that Idea and already sent it off to the GF. It would just have to wait until she gets moved here in a few weeks.

[Skip]

I don't want that. I want head over heals in love. I want to have feelings for a woman I cannot control, I want her in my every thought, I don't want to be able to keep my hands off her, I want to feel like I can never do enough for her because she is that special to me,  I want to feel like I will die without her.

   (I rarely throw a red flag   )

The fact that you see these two things as mutually exclusive, or polar opposites, is a sign of not working through the baggage of last relationship. I don't say this as criticism, I say this as a friend and as something to deal with for going forward. Distorted thinking from our prior relationship does not serve us well going forward. There is time to fix these things, but its a little harder while in a relationship.

The skills we learn on the Improving Board (e.g., listening instead of reacting, or not JADEing, etc.) are skills needed for all relationships.

The explosion of infatuation is great... .but even a blind man can navigate the honeymoon stage of love without problems. When the infatuation smoke clears away and the relationship moves into phase II where partners struggle with identity, independence, and control issues, you will need the temperament and relationship tools to survive, and at the same time, plant a healthy relationship and move to stage III. How you respond to adversity - and there will be adversity - is huge.

[takingandsending]

Think of this like the three little pigs. Do you want  your RS built out of straw (hey it burns bright but then ... .?), straw (you can make a nice mattress when it blows down) or brick (takes time and work but it lasts)?

[Hisaccount]

The skills we learn on the Improving Board (e.g., listening instead of reacting, or not JADEing, etc.) are skills needed for all relationships.

I have been really sick and not felt like updating.

I do appreciate all the insight, it is valuable knowledge that cannot be gotten in another single place that I am aware of.
You are all correct these things we learn are life skills that are good tools to have in all walks of life.

I think I am simply overreacting to paranoia and there really isn't some underlying issues that is going to pop up.
Had a really good conversation with my oldest son last weekend who is 23, married with 2 step kids. Of course with the bluntness only someone that close to you can say he told me I was being stupid. That there is nothing wrong with me and my fears are just left over damage from the evil soul sucking vampire.
He reminded me that we cannot control someone else. If she wants to run off, then she will run off. The question really is if she is worth the risk.

Control is one of the issues I face, I have no control. I don't fully understand this woman. Dealing with a personality disorder I had a measurable amount of control. I could manipulate and make things happen. I don't have that insight or predictability anymore.  That scares me a little.

Then talking with the GF this weekend and since. She has no reservations at all. This is what she wants and is willing to work together for happy future. She understands the baggage I have and she has some of her own. That is just part of life at our age.

I haven't had those same feelings of paranoia or depression that I had when I first posted this so I will keep journaling and we will see if they pop up again and why.

[momtara]

I'm late to this, but this worries me:

"She is respectful, she dumped all of her guy friends and made it very clear she has a boyfriend that she is happy with. She spends no time with her girl friends."

Why are these good things, that she's rejecting all her friends to be with you? Are you paranoid about her having male friends? Usually it's the BPD people that can't stand it if we have a friend of the opposite sex. I can see her having less contact with male friends and not getting to see her female friends as much, but in a healthy relationship you encourage people to be with their friends and relatives, rather than try to alienate them. It's not that you are doing this - maybe she's love-bombing you and has issues?

Why don't you encourage her to see her friends (at least female friends) once in a  while and see what she says?

Yes, in a great relationship, you don't talk to your friends as much. But dumping is a concern.

[gotbushels]

I'm late to this, but this worries me:

"She is respectful, she dumped all of her guy friends and made it very clear she has a boyfriend that she is happy with. She spends no time with her girl friends."

... .

But dumping is a concern.

From what I can see, this was responded to here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=314032.msg12896942#msg12896942

[Belljarescapee]

Another red flag is giving up all of her friends. Healthy people in healthy relationships should never give up friends of the same sexual orientation or opposite either one. Unhealthy people, red flag, BPD people have problems with your friends and want to isolate you. I have missed my friends so much during my marriage.  If I ever found myself wanting to date again a huge factor of whether or not a person could be trusted would be if they weren't threatened by my other relationships,  and had their own other healthy relationships. You can't put the whole world in one person because then that one person has to remain your whole world and you may find out she isn't atlas after all. Also I would question a mother's willingness to move her in with someone she has never lived with herself.  Not to insult her parrenting choices but I am a mother and it seems like poor judgment.

[Skip]

Discussion regarding treatment and car for the oldest daughter has been transferred here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=315064.

This is a better place to discuss what the requirements to parent a child over the net 10+ years.

[Skip]

In reading your thoughts on all of this, I get the feeling that you are looking at this 4 part family unit as having a defective member who will not be tolerated as is. Unless the matter is corrected, either the defective child or the mother and all the children will need to go.

I don't think this thought process is at all realistic.

If you are taking on all four to raise as your own, one of the children is a special needs child and will require years of special needs care both in the home and possible with stays in a mental facility.  This is not going to fix with a court order (if that is even a practical option) or 30 days hospital stay or a six month, $100,000+ residential treatment center program. These things can be invaluable tools, but the majority of the habitation over the next 10 years will be in your home and it will strain the other family members and your relationship.

It can be done. Twice in my life I've mentored teens. Its rewarding, its challenging, its expensive, and it is trying. I was in the emergency room with one, just a few months ago, rushing 60 miles in the middle of the night to get her unconscious body into a class 1 trauma center.

Being a father if four is a commitment. Being a father of four with a special needs child, in a much bigger commitment.

You're a good Christian man. Are you ready for this type of life mission.

[Skip]

Previous weekend I took her for a drive to calm her down. Which really didn't work, but during that drive she started saying things that made me nervous. Like she would accuse me of doing inappropriate things if she didn't get her way. I told her we are going home and we will never be alone again.
For that very reason, the kids have keyed locks on their doors that I do not have a key too.

She accused grandmas boyfriend of doing and saying inappropriate things. True or not I have gone above and beyond to avoid any possible accusations of such.

I rarely make strong statements like this, but I want to be sure you have heard this from someone before making any commitments.  It is legally very risky to have this young lady in your home after this threat.  Your door locks won't protect you against a false accusation. And if there is a false accusation, and CPS gets involved, resolving it will tear your relationship apart. CPS will also question her parking her children alone and unsupervised with a man that she has only known for 100-130 days.

She is going to get an [her own] apartment for now and we will just see how it goes as nobody can predict the future.

In two weeks mom transfers finally and will be living here full time instead of 3 hours away.

This is a big change of plans. This is a high risk situation in terms of making this relationship work. I think any counselor would tell you that it is much smarter for her to move into her own home in your area, get everyone settled, for you to build relationships with the children before consolidating households.

I suspect that if you all move in together in two weeks, there will be insurmountable pressures on your new relationship in the upcoming year that will break it.

Clearly you know this situation better than I. And whatever decision you make, we will support you as a community and help you make the best of it.

[Hisaccount]

I just want to say that, I have no idea what I am doing. LOL
This is an emerging situation and I came running here immediately because I was having flash backs.

Yes the current plan is for her to move into her apartment and set it up as such. Her getting an apartment is actually something we decided to do here in this thread. She hopes she can stay with me, but depending on how the 15 year old acts she says they, her and all the kids will retreat and move to the apartment because it is not fair that I be treated the way she is treating me, blah, blah, blah.
The apartment is just a couple blocks away. The kids can walk to my house if they need a safe place.

Honestly, I am just winging it here. Based on my experience she has all the traits of a personality disorder of some type. She might just be acting out and will straighten up when mom gets here.
That of course I doubt because she is abusive towards mom but who knows.
 
I agree, having her in the home is extremely scary, but this is where I can only have faith and do the best I can to protect myself. But they have no other choice right now. Nobody else will take them. They have all refused if the 15 year old is coming along.
If family services gets involved, well then that is part of God's plan and there is nothing I can do.

Bottom line is, the kid needs help. If mom is committed to getting her help then I will support it best I can. Otherwise I refuse to be part of the train wreck ahead. 
Her entire family except for mom has her blocked and refuse to talk to her right now because of her rage a weekend ago. This to them is a normal process.
I am the first to stop and say hey, I think she has a condition.

Mom has said she, the 15 year old, has ruined all of her relationships in the past. I knew that going into all of this. We talk about us, but right now it is mostly about the kids.

Like I said before, I think this is why God put them in my path. Relationship or not I will help if I can.  I think I was meant to.

[livednlearned]

Hisaccount, I have a similar dynamic in my new family. I divorced my son's father (uBPD/bipolar) and am now in a relationship with a great guy who has a bipolar/uBPD daughter.

This:

Two weeks mom will be here full time with an apartment so she can take the 15 year old there or not. Not my problem at that point.

... .is not realistic. If you date the mom, her daughter will be a huge part of your life. Even living separately. I don't know if you are saying this out of frustration and fatigue, or if this is something you truly believe? You two love each other. Her emotions will affect you and vice versa, and D15 will be part of that.
 

We talk about us, but right now it is mostly about the kids.

This probably won't change.

Bottom line is, the kid needs help. If mom is committed to getting her help then I will support it best I can. Otherwise I refuse to be part of the train wreck ahead.

 

Your bottom line is also messier than you may realize. If she is a loving mom she will be more than committed to helping her daughter. The problem is that a proper diagnosis can take a long time, the skills are not intuitive, treatment can be expensive and confusing, and effective parenting for a mentally ill teen involves trial and error, over and over. Mom probably has to learn assertive boundaries, and that can feel like a complete overhaul of personality that in practice will test her moment to moment while she's juggling two other kids, running a home, and holding down her job.

In a blended family like this, a kiss of death is to have ultimatums, especially of the "it's either her or me" kind.

There is a way through this if you have the will and patience. It's not easy. First task is to make a list of important boundaries and get clear with them. If you're like most people, you'll struggle in this area.

Second task is to look at the biggest risks and take steps to protect yourself.

I would start with how things work if D15 makes a false allegation so you aren't unprepared. She has already figured out what kind of power she has if needed, and thankfully she tipped you off in advance. Get a friendly consult with an attorney -- for a few hundred dollars you can find out how things work where you live in case this escalates. It's like putting on a helmet when you ride your bike, the risk is slim but the consequences could be disastrous and looking back you'll wonder why you waited for the train to hit when you saw it coming miles away.

Which isn't to say back all the way out. It just means you take these signs seriously and add this info to your tool kit.

I would also recommend you have a therapist throughout this, if you can. Having a BPD ex does not count as expertise, as I learned the hard way 

[Hisaccount]

Hisaccount, I have a similar dynamic in my new family. I divorced my son's father (uBPD/bipolar) and am now in a relationship with a great guy who has a bipolar/uBPD daughter.

Thank you for your input and support.

I am in no way thinking I am an expert or in anyway equipped to deal with this.

The two week comment is more about fatigue. When mom gets here full time, I will be able to walk away if I have to and recover and then go back and give it another try. I don't give up.
Being all alone when she is raging I cannot leave her alone. I simply have to take the verbal abuse. If I walk away she will run off or harm herself or her sisters or tear up the house.
So right now I am forced to push down my own feelings of hurt and work with her on calming her down and getting her back on the rails all by myself.
Which is very difficult because of course she doesn't trust anything I say or do.
The thing I am not good at is calming the D15 down to a place where she is reasonable. I have been reading and learning what I can about that but without her trust I may not be able to.

I know that these kids will always be a huge part of the relationship and I am prepared for that, but I am not prepared to deal with it alone.
I did it alone in my last relationship as many of us have and nobody should ever have to do that.

There has not been any kind of talk about hard choices or ultimatums. I know better. Like choose her or me. The only thing I have said is I refuse to be treated like that and if mom is going to make excuses for her and let it happen without getting her help then I am out.
Maybe I am wrong but I feel like that is a pretty okay boundary.

I am very encouraged about how mom has been handling the relationship and the kids. We had a pretty good foundation of trust and understanding before the kids ever came into the picture.

There are a lot of things I have learned to help me through this without making things worse. Right now mom and I have been doing a great job supporting each other.
I will call mom and say look they are really wearing on me today. Not sure I can do this. Then we will talk it out and she has always supported me helped me. I have done the same in return. She calls me and says she wants to drive off a bridge (jokingly) so I sit down and do my best to support her.
That has been working great for us. I have never in my life had someone there for me like she has been. I hope she is feeling the same thing.

When D15 got violent and I had to separate the kids she told me how mad mom was going to be at me when she finds out what I did to her, that I even touched her. (I had heard horror stories of previous boyfriends that got in the middle)
I grabbed her wrists, pinned her body up against the wall with my shoulder and peeled her hands off of D14. Then told D14 to go to her room, lock the door. When I heard the door close I released D15.
Mom called me after D15 called her. We never talked about that actually, she simply asked me if I was okay and if the kids had calmed down yet and if D14 was okay. 

That right there says a lot to me. That our foundation is strong for her to not even question that I did something wrong or out of line.

We have the same sense of humor, we joke about the kids secretly, not to be mean, but to be funny. It is part of the connection we have. But we have that understanding that we can laugh about things and not mean it. Nice change from a BPD that I could never joke with.

As far as protecting myself from accusations I have been doing a bunch of PR work. Parents, Grandparents love me. Not sure why but every relationship ever I was always very much loved. So I have been going around keeping everyone informed of D15 and what is going on. Told everyone of her threats. Collecting all of the information I can.
It is all I can do.  Lawyer was not much help, he told me to remove myself from the situation.

Mom and I have been discussing boundaries.  We are working on them together. Mom is not a good enforcer and caves. I do not. (so far)
That is the weakest part of our relationship right now. So far she has not pushed it when I tell her no, this is a boundary or consequence we agreed on. This is a punishment we agreed on. We need to see it through or the kids will run all over us forever.
That is part of what she is learning. I went through it. I let my boundaries be crossed. I caved. I saw what it did to me and my family.  Doing my best to not let that happen again.

D15 had therapy yesterday. Before hand I spoke with therapist. I tried not to get involved but the more red flags I see I had to share my observations and simply asked the therapist to use them as conversation starters as D15 is most likely sitting there quiet the whole hour.
I gave the complete history as told to me by family but tried to make it clear it was hearsay to me and that she should contact her previous therapist to confirm.
After the session I received an email from therapist saying D15 will most likely need intense outpatient therapy or in patient therapy with a list of places to go in case of emergency or if we are looking for an in care facility, as well as some recommended psychiatrists.

I know as well as you do that it takes a long time to make that kind of diagnosis. I have not heard back from therapist to see if this is a recommendation to do now? Or just information if needed moving forward. Or really why she sent it.
I have also not talked to mom about it until I get some answers.
 

[Hisaccount]

I should also add that this new issue with the kids has changed the way I look at the relationship.

I have been working on an exit strategy and tightened my boundaries up so it will be easier to recover if things don't work out.

I will still give it my all but now I find myself more reactive than proactive and where it goes from here is about mom's commitment to seeing her daughter get help and a chance at a better life and maintaining a relationship with me. Maybe she isn't capable of both.

[Skip]

I over analyze everything she says. I don't trust what comes out of her mouth or what she writes me. I keep trying to look for her angle and how she is going to "get" me. ... //... Yet she has been so supportive and patient with me and I cannot understand why this beautiful young woman wants anything to do with me.

Am I just not ready? I say ready because does anyone ever completely heal from BPD partner?

Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees 

You started this thread with the question, am I just not ready?

In the course of 60 posts, it comes out that this is a long 120+ day, long distance relationship, with a beautiful young woman, who has a 3 children, one of which is in destructive emotional turmoil and showing signs of "BPD like" instability. You have received a warning from the child that she knows she can make false claims of abuse. You have also found out that she did this with another family member. You lawyer and your support group tell you that you are in a high risk situation.  You admit that you don't yet have the parenting, special interests skills to raise a child like this, your assessment is that the mother does not have the skills either and will need to be coached on her parenting.

So going back to your original question... .are you prepared to take this step? Or maybe more to point, are you entering into a scenario that is reckless and has excessive risks and are you ignoring advice to make changes to mitigate the risks to an acceptable level.

It's a question. It's not a conclusion.

I will say this. You can't really know mom in 120+ days via long distance relationship. This is style the honeymoon period, your in the normal idealization, mirroring and connecting stage. You don't even know why she is with you... .which is an important question that we need to learn (not by asking, by observing) so that we know what kind of relationship we are in.

For example, is she looking for an older man to bring stability a chaotic family? Or is she looking for an older man to bring stability a chaotic mind?

And with these child issues, a lot of future time is going to be spent on children issues, and like "long distance", that will interfere with your ability to know her and develop a strong bond between you.

Please don't look at any of this as judgement of you or her or even the daughter. The daughter might just be 15 and acting out and will settle down when the situation stabilizes and everyone gets to know each other.

I'm just trying to remind you of the question you asked when you came here, and what had been uncovered in your discussions here.

You are the strength in the relationship. The male. The older guy. Ultimately, the quality if thr decisions made and the ramifications of how this plays out falls to you.

[Hisaccount]

Thanks skip, that has been foremost on my mind even though I haven't talked about it lately, someone to take care of them all. Stability and security and I have at least come to my own conclusion that is what the angle is whether she realizes it or not.
As parents I think we have primal instincts that cause us to act.

I try to rationalize it both ways. Staying and going.
Reading through the treatment journal you posted in the other thread I like the terms wise mind and emotional mind.
My emotional mind wants to say you betrayed and mislead me.
But my wise mind says that is the part that is still hurt from the exBPD.

My emotional mind says this is all fake and I was right to question it.
My wise mind says I have talked to the entire family and nobody would have predicted this. That the person I met has been as true and honest as she was capable of being.

I like that she has an apartment and I did not just have her move straight in with me. For now that distance might be the best step to see how D15 responds to a stable environment with someone she trusts.
It also will not wear on the relationship as I am not part of her rages or meltdowns.
After that we can just wing it.

[Hisaccount]

I wanted to update this thread.

GF is living here now. Staying with me most of the time because the kids do not want to stay at her place. They do and she stays there with them, but maybe one night on a weekend because it is like camping to them. At which point I have stayed with her.

D15 and her still fight and argue a bunch, but D15 has not acted out towards me in anyway. The other two girls have been really good. Very little trouble.
Since mom got here, D15 started helping me, not mom. Voluntarily. Doing things like cleaning and taking the garbage out without being asked or told. Maybe she is trying to send a message to mom? Or bonding with me?
Maybe I am slowly breaking her down. LOL

So here is the part I wonder if I should have seen coming. GF is a liar. Maybe chronic, which of course is a red flag and points to other types of disorders.
I have not caught her lying about anything I feel important, like people, money, health, work, but some very blatant and bold faced lies and when I confront her with proof she still denies it to no end. If I keep pushing and I was even telling her I don't mind what she did, I just want to know why she lies about it to me of all people.
She gets upset, makes some accusations towards me. Tries to play victim.
I see the manipulation. Always have.
Shortly after that conversation she still never admitted to lying about the original topic but did admit to another lie I called her on. I think she backed herself into a corner and I didn't leave her a way out.
She apologized for getting upset, said she was sorry for doing it and the way she treated me. How it seems like family always take the brunt of the abuse when they don't deserve it. Said she didn't want to be like that. She is not used to be treated so nicely about things and will try harder in the future to not let things like that happen.

There is my challenge. LOL Anyone want popcorn?

Not sure where it stops. To what end or why she does it. There is nothing to gain. Maybe it is a control thing?
She has admitted some very embarrassing and potentially damaging and hurtful things towards herself, why would she do that and worry about some worthless emails I caught her deleting out of my email account that I gave her permission to be in? 
I have a really good memory and I have even gone back through her letters trying to catch her in lies because it freaked me out and made me question everything.
Most things she has been true and consistent with to her word all along.
I just don't understand why. She leaves her phone unlocked. I have all of her passwords. I snoop and see anything that would make me question her.
Then of course you cannot trust a liar and without trust this is not a relationship I want.
Oh don't get me wrong, I will ride it awhile yet and see what happens, but I have taken more steps to protect myself financially just in case.
Mentally I am in a good place. If she goes I am fine, if she stays we have a lot of growing to do.
I think my support system is strong enough that I can handle and see what happens.

The fun never stops.

[gotbushels]

Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees  
[... .]

[... .] This is style the honeymoon period, your in the normal idealization, mirroring and connecting stage. You don't even know why she is with you... .which is an important question that we need to learn (not by asking, by observing) so that we know what kind of relationship we are in.

For example, is she looking for an older man to bring stability a chaotic family? Or is she looking for an older man to bring stability a chaotic mind?
[... .]

You are the strength in the relationship. The male. The older guy. Ultimately, the quality if thr decisions made and the ramifications of how this plays out falls to you.

Thank you for this. I appreciated this summary of where Hisaccount is and the perspectives. I've found that losing sight of the forest is an idea that will help us see that sometimes it takes a conscious stepping back to rethink our larger wants.

[livednlearned]

My emotional mind wants to say you betrayed and mislead me.
But my wise mind says that is the part that is still hurt from the exBPD.

My emotional mind says this is all fake and I was right to question it.
My wise mind says I have talked to the entire family and nobody would have predicted this. That the person I met has been as true and honest as she was capable of being.

It seems like you equate emotion mind with false thinking, whereas wise mind is rational and correct.

You are suggesting that your anxiety and fear about this woman loving you (for you) are emotions that should be discounted (emotion mind).

You suggest that others confirm your view that this woman is genuine. There was no way to predict any of the drama that followed.

Is that an accurate way to describe how you view these two?

[momtara]

My therapist told me something smart.

If things are going ok, don't make any concrete decisions that can cause problems later. Why commit when you don't have to? In other words, if this were a few months ago, I would have said - well, if you love this woman and she loves you, why not wait a year (rather than 4 months) to have her move her kids out of their schools, and have her move in with you, have her drop all her friends, etc? We all want head over heels love. And generally I hate it when people try to poke a whole on that or act like a timeline is going to be the same for everyone else. But I think in this case, it's fast and it's a lot of big (not small) changes. Perhaps see what happens if you say "I'm in love with you but I want to slow down any major changes in my life so that emotionally I know I'm ready for everything that comes." It seems like she'd decided after 4 months to trust you enough to let you take care of her children. Does that strike you as odd?

We all doubt our judgment after a BPD relationship. Often we are being too careful and too cautious, and that's not a terrible thing. But in your case I would slow down a bit. That romantic falling in love feeling is wonderful - but it shouldn't be the basis for quick life changes.

[momtara]

Just a note about Kim's post:

I'm sorry you went through this. From your message it's clear that the guy you loved, who kept accusing you of cheating, may have had deeper problems than low self esteem. Continually accusing someone of cheating is considered a form of verbal abuse. I know he probably seemed sweet and shy and humble - that's why you fell in love. But please don't blame yourself or think you could have done something differently. Just cutting someone off is typical of BPD as well. Hang in there.

Hello,

Maybe I can help you by giving you a glimpse into possibly her perspective. I dated someone for 2 years and from the moment I met him, I fell in love with him and from the moment he met me, he kept saying "I feel like one day you will wake up and realize you're too good for me and that I'm out of your league."

I saw him as handsome and super successful. He saw himself as not so good looking, fat, and not as accomplished as he wanted to be.

I thought he was wealthy, in so many ways - not just material but in kindness, in his heart, in his generosity with me and everyone. When we were together and around other people who had bigger better "things" he always said to me "you can do so much better."

All I ever wanted was him - he was enough. But he never felt it. So he kept looking and looking for things. First few dates he asked me if I was bulimic bec I kept going to the bathroom. I drink a lot of water. Then he asked if I was ever "abused" and I told him I grew up in the most loving, nurturing family. I do not know what abuse is.

I didn't need his money, his house, his help with kids. I needed him and his love nothing else -- but he could never see it.

He never felt like he was worthy of the love I was giving him so one day, he started making accusations that I couldn't bear anymore. I couldn't bear his suspicions and I told him, no matter how much love and attention I give you, its never enough.

So he couldn't bear his perceived (bec it was only a perception) of inequality between us. He cut me off like I never existed in his life. We didn't live together but all my stuff was at his house and we were going to get married. He would say to me, I don't want to get married but with you - I want to announce to the world that I have landed the most beautiful woman.

Its been almost 8 months. I have not heard from him and he's never looked back. Cut me off like I was the plague.The only time I heard from him was a long string of drunken texts where he said "I wish your love was real. Why did it have to be fake. Why couldn't you love me the way I loved you." I could have turned blue assuring him and he would have never believed it.

So my advice to you is believe her when she tells you she loves you. Believe that you are lovable and that there are reasons - just being you - that she loves you. Have faith that you can find love and that she's not with you for any reason other than wanting to be loved by you.

Hope that helps.