This woman is out of my league. I can't understand why she wants to be with me.

[Hisaccount]

Been dating, gave up on dating, started dating again.
Now I found this woman that is really wonderful, actually she found me, No red flags that I can see yet. We have been dating for about 4 months.
She is everything my BPD ex is not. She is caring and considerate, she is thoughtful. She has friends. She is respectful, she dumped all of her guy friends and made it very clear she has a boyfriend that she is happy with. She spends no time with her girl friends. She leaves her phone unlocked. She is open and honest as far as I can see.

We are in the process of moving in together. Maybe a little fast but with school starting it was time to get her kids enrolled since she didn't live here and that pushed the issue.
So I have her kids living with me, I take them to school everyday, I feed them, I clothe them. I am raising them as my own. She will not move here for 6 more weeks because of work.

I see this woman that I believe is way out of my league. I think I finally found a woman that is normal, but I can't understand why she wants to be with me?

That is the hard part. I cannot just let go. I cannot just accept and be happy. I over analyze everything she says. I don't trust what comes out of her mouth or what she writes me. I keep trying to look for her angle and how she is going to "get" me.

But look at her actions. She dumped all of her guy friends, she never does anything that would make me question if there was anyone else ever, she moved her kids to be with me and believe me that is huge for her to let them go. She keeps moving stuff to my house. She keeps making plans for a future with me.
She didn't have to move, she wanted to be with me and that is the only reason she is moving her family.
She has given me no reason not to trust her. Her actions tell me she wants this too. Not just her words.

But, I can't let go and just trust or believe and I feel it will eventually lead to problems.
when I say trust it is not like I ever accuse her of anything, it is a matter of the heart. I know I am holding back. I know I am protecting myself and she has never given me reason to.

I take the lack of love bombing common with a BPD and I try to twist that into she is not interested in me.
Then I say she is using me to raise her kids but she has paid for everything. Not a freeloader.
I can't stop looking for fault.

One of the saddest things is when the relationship started taking off I stopped her and asked her what meds she takes. That is pretty messed up isn't it? She didn't deserve that.

Yet she has been so supportive and patient with me and I cannot understand why this beautiful young woman wants anything to do with me.

Anyone else go through this?  
Am I just not ready? I say ready because does anyone ever completely heal from BPD partner?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

I think it would help us guide you if you can lay down the timeline of your wife moving out, the divorce date, when you started dating, etc.

In general, with your wife of 10 years moving out in January (is the divorce final) and your new girlfriend who you met in May is moving in with in August, I'd say this went really fast.

Not that you should turn back, but its sounds like you skipped the whole divorce recovery process and didn't take a time to work through the transition of leaving a reasonably long relationship.  

Maybe you should do that now. Sign up for a divorce recovery program (a local church will off this) and work through it. You could post here, on this board, to work through it too.

Anyone else go through this?  
Am I just not ready? I say ready because does anyone ever completely heal from BPD partner?

Of course they do.  But anytime we are in a difficult relationship for an extended time, we are wounded and we develop band habits and thought patterns - and we have enmeshment to untangle and unwind. For me it took 4 years and two short relationships to get my self back into shape.

[Hisaccount]

Thanks Skip,

Well to sum up, wife of 10 years, "fell asleep" on the couch most nights since year 5, but then started spending most of her nights staying at her office at year 8 (not uncommon for her line of business when getting it off the ground). Still interacted as a married couple. Her kids lived with me so she spent a couple days a week at the house to see them. Yes, her kids chose to stay with me. She did laundry there, everything was like she still lived there full time. I kind of thought she did.
Divorced filed without warning by her last October. It devastated me. Final in Feb. This year. She came around January and moved the rest of her stuff out. Lawyer ed up, initiated no contact which was the best thing ever.

I started dating last October, Gave up December. Started again. January gave up in March. Current girlfriend found me through a mutual friend. She wouldn't give up on me. Dating was actually suggested by my therapist very early on to get me out, help me start eating again, meeting people and in turn she hoped it would show me that I will be okay, that I will find friends again and be happy again. Ex had already moved on, and I hadn't had an intimate relationship in years so she convinced me to go for it.

Did Therapy from October to January.
Did anti depressants from Nov to Feb. This year.
That should be a pretty accurate background anyway.

I actually have been doing divorce support group through the church I am going to. Have been since December. I would recommend that to anyone. It helps to have friends that don't condemn you and I have no plans to stop attending and participating.

Was really doing well from March till just a week or so ago. That is what I don't understand. New house, new life, new everything. I was on top of the world, but then here comes paranoia. It kind of came out of no where. I have had a hard time shaking it.

I don't think about my ex. much at all. But what she did to me left an impression for sure apparently.
Which I don't think is all bad, because we learn from our mistakes right? We take that knowledge and move on.

You step in a pot hole, fall down, scrape your knee, chip a tooth, pride gets hurt. After that you watch for potholes right? Then you walk around them forever forth.

I am looking for a pothole. I don't see a pothole, But my mind apparently believes there is one somewhere.

So looking for ideas on how to deal with that. I haven't been on the board for a while and I am sure I will be looking around for answers on my own as well. With everything I have learned from this board, logic says I am currently in a healthy relationship. My heart says I am in a healthy relationship. My mind cannot accept it all of the sudden.

Is this a phase that will pass? Or is it something that is about to come bubbling up and destroy everything I have been working so hard on?
Maybe it is brought on by the kids, me taking on her kids. I guess that is not all that much different than what the ex did to me. But I had a choice this time and I didn't last time. This time I wanted this.

Okay this is just me rambling now.

 

[ArleighBurke]

I see red flags - for both of you... .

You: ":)ivorced filed without warning by her last October. It devastated me."
You: "I started dating last October"

Are we talking the same year? If you are devastated by a divorce, that's not a time to start dating! There is a definite time period to grieve and recover - and I'm told even 6months is not enough.

Then you say: "We are in the process of moving in together... .time to get her kids enrolled since she didn't live here... .
So I have her kids living with me, I take them to school everyday, I feed them, I clothe them. I am raising them as my own. She will not move here for 6 more weeks because of work."

So she's not living with you, and you are raising her kids for her. Perhaps she's authentic, or perhaps she's got free housing and free child care for her kids while she's living another life on her own... .? Will she move in with you in 6 weeks? Or will there be another reason she doesn't?

I hope for the best for you - but these things don't seem good... .
(I also can't offer any advice yet on what you should do... .)

[Lost-love-mind]

My point?
Are you moving to quickly? It sounds like the perfect rebound relationship I would want (except for the children).
Be careful.

[Sunfl0wer]

Idk, imho, it is not about "finding the right person or relationship."
Moving on after a r/s is about finding oneself, becoming a "new person."  Looking into the reasons one landed in the dynamic they landed in, examining their contributions to the dysfunctional dance and learning and growing from there.

Imo, that usually takes over a good solid year worth of ongoing introspection and growth.

Way I see it is if this relationship is a solid one, it should be able to withstand waiting another full year before moving in.  

Why not?

Kids can withstand continuing school in their old distrct way better than having a step dad then losing one.  (To me, the "need" to move in cause of kids schooling is a weak reason.  The couple needs a good foundation of having lived through many types of experiences that crop up in all seasons of a year.  Also, I do not see someone giving up friends as a sign of devotion, but imo, are red flags to tell me to slow the heck down)

Why not wait a year?  

... .

Also, you keep saying you feel you don't know why she wants to be with you.
I kindly suggest, you do some work on your self esteem, self love, feelings of worthiness BEFORE making yourself a psuedo husband/stepdad to someone elses kids.  Imo, this is necessary foundational work to entering any relationship ready for a mature dynamic where both persons feel whole and are not setting themselves up to seek emotional regulation/esteem from being with the other person.

Curious also what your divorce group thinks of gal u met same month of divorce?
(If we are getting timeline correct that is... .otherwise, pls disregard)

[Hisaccount]

Thank you for the replies. I appreciate everyone's input. I would have to agree with everything you guys are saying.

I can sit here and make excuses about why things are happening so fast, but then I shouldn't have to right? That would be a red flag in itself.

This is where the divorce group is not helpful, they see a situation and they are supportive. They see me happy and they support it. They don't have the training or knowledge to stop and say, wait this isn't right.
They are all aware of everything going on and they are wishing me the best.

What they know and you don't maybe is that for the last 5 years of my marriage we were not a couple. We were not even room mates. To best describe it, I would have divorced her but I felt like I was abandoning a retarded child and I couldn't live with myself if I did that. I often described it as raising 5 kids instead of 4.
I had told myself that this was the life I had chosen so I needed to suck it up and deal with it.

I have often said, look at what they make you give. (referring to a BPD partner) When you give all of you, everyday. Your heart and soul.  When you give everything and then you are told that you were never even close to good enough. That is devastating. Words are bad enough but divorce was action that cannot be disputed and makes you believe all those words were true.
Investing everything, emotionally and financially and have it ripped from you. That is devastating.
I thought I was happy enough.

When she lawyer ed up and went no contact it was the best thing ever. I was back in control. No more manipulating, controlling, abusive words from her. No more guilt. It was like a get out of jail free card. Everyday without a word from her my life was exponentially better. Knowing her as well as I did I was was able to manipulate and control the divorce. I didn't take advantage or abuse her guilt issues but I was able to walk away with cash in hand and so was she. That is a lot more than most people.
Having dated through that process was actually a good thing, helping build my confidence and self esteem I did not just roll over and let her have everything which is what my depression was telling me to do in the begging of all of this.
If she had not initiated no contact I would still be her puppet. I believe that.

I have no problem with who I am and I know who I want to be. Which is me, because I am awesome.

I am a good dad, taking care of kids, well this is probably the best thing for them. She is paying me so she is not free loading.
We had talked about her getting an apartment when she gets here instead and maybe we should do that, but either way she is coming and the kids could not stay in the apartment alone anyway. Up until a month ago the kids were going to stay with their grandma for this school year. Then they decided they didn't want to. Their push for this year is because one is starting middle school and one is starting high school. So two of them are new kids just like everyone else and that makes it a lot easier on them. I agree fully now is the best time for them.

I love kids, they all deserve our best, I had my chance to save the world and I didn't so maybe one of them will. Kids should be loved, supported and encouraged as well as being safe and secure. 

When I say she gave up her friends, I mean more like she put me first in her life. She chases off the guys that were hitting on her. She will change plans to be with me if her girl friends are wanting time.

There was one girl before her I actually thought I loved. Pretty sure I am past the rebound phase.


I really do appreciate you guys dissecting everything. That is exactly what my mind has been going through, like I missed something and I don't know what it is yet.

Let's approach this a different way.
She is everything I ever dreamed of. Being honest with myself, I have probably said that before. The person I dreamed of and imagined spending my life with when I was a teenager, this is her.  So do I fear it is too good to be true?
Now that the kids are here and we are counting down until she is, is it too real? What am I afraid of?
I didn't plan on this and neither did she. She is 16 years younger than me, that bothers me but doesn't seem to bother her at all. I told her early on she is too young and pretty and we would never work, but she said she loves me and can't walk away.
In my heart I know I love her and I cannot change that even though I have tried.
I think I do fear that if I don't grab her now someone else will as I go through all of this with you guys and it is not that I don't think I can't do better, but I don't think there is better.
The lack of love bombing made me examine the relationship very closely a while back. Granted we don't have the long term compatibility experience yet, we are certainly past infatuation. We are in the stability phase already. We have both had two long marriages and kids so we settled in pretty easily.

Maybe because I was told before I had made someone happy and found it all to be a lie, That total and complete betrayal, maybe this is what I fear this time? With everything my ex did I cannot blame that on the personality disorder and let it go. That closure we never get  I guess.
and that is exactly why I am here. I can't let go and trust it is true.
If you say I need more time to get over that feeling before moving forward, then I say, if I get over that feeling did I learn anything from it?
If I don't get over it, then how can I ever give someone else the best of me?

The past is the past, sure, but it makes us who we are, and we cannot always pick and choose what haunts us at night.
 

 

[JoyfulOne777]

I think it would be helpful to know what her past relationship was like. I know for me, I married someone who was in my league, but after 18 years of being married to someone with BPD, if I ever had a second chance, looks would not be my first priority at all, and I'd probably look for someone who was good with my kids and perhaps a little older and more mature. So if she married a good looking, selfish guy the first time, she's probably learned her lesson too.

[Sunfl0wer]

I suspect you are going to get some good input to come on this thread as you did a fine job expressing where you are coming from.

I do think that it does matter that you appear to have gone through a bit of grieving and detaching during your marriage, prior to your finalized divorce.

Having said that, just gonna say my perosnal belief, does not have to be anyone else's:  I happen to be a firm believer of doing the work of detaching and grieving while single.

I understand, not everyone would agree on that, hence imo, why it is nice to speak on such a forum as this.

However, I strongly feel that there is imperitive work one is best to do following such an intense life changing relationship as one with a pwAnyPD, and much of it is best done while completely unattached and single in every sense of the word.

I do not think it is impossible to attain a huge degree of emotional growth, I just personally feel there is much to be said of shedding many traits that drew us to this disordered dynamic thta are best addressed while single.  (Self soothing abilities, shedding white knight syndromes or martyr complexes, learning to be ok with ourself if not in a helper role, learning to be ok with ourself when not "a couple" and attending events as a solo identity, exploring self care, recreational stuff single, etc and so on and so on.)

There was a sense of utter unimaginable aloneness and tear at the core fabric of my  very being when I found myself alone in my new apartment with no hope of following the course of attaining the family I thought I had attained with my ex.  

I feel I needed to experience this loss to it's fullest.
Had I just replaced my loss of hope with a newfound hope, I could have never gained so much of the self resources and strength that I have.

I happen to believe that our attachment to the pwBPD is not just attachment to them, but us reenacting early childhood unmet attachment desires.

There is no way to address this core wound if we simply soothe our "self worth/self esteem" via finding another person to project our hope and dreams onto.  After all... .kinda defeats the "self" in self esteem.

Not meaning to sound negative or anything, just sharing my one perspective... .surely you will get others, maybe different also.

If I had it to do over again... .
I would seriously ask myself... .
Why NOT wait a year?
And I would listen good to my answer.
Because chances are it is not in a "wisemind" area of thinking.
Chances are that is is way more emotionally, impulsively driven, soothing self driven of "wants" (right brained driven) vs anything very Logical/objective (left brain driven)

[Turkish]

First,  it sounds like this new woman is great,  and I don't get the sense that you are embellishing it.  Congratulations, she sounds great

I have no problem with who I am and I know who I want to be. Which is me, because I am awesome.

Do you really believe this,  I mean,  at your core?

If you were sitting on a mountain top late a night, alone and far from city lights,  gazing at the sky full of stars,  thinking about all that transpired on your previous life,  do you really believe this? Apart from what you wrote,  everything else you wrote sounds like you feel like you aren't deserving of love.

Maybe because I was told before I had made someone happy and found it all to be a lie,

Maybe it isn't the job of one person to make someone else happy.  This is a need fulfilment trap many of us tend to fall into.

[SummerStorm]

Just throwing in my two cents, from the perspective of a single woman who has had many friendships ruined because the other person kept choosing the relationship over the friendship, instead of balancing both.  Perhaps it is healthy for her to put distance between herself and her male friends, but based on what you said, and maybe I'm reading it in the wrong way, it sounds like she is frequently choosing time with you over time with female friends.  To me, that's not healthy.  Of all the married couples I know, the ones who have the strongest, happiest relationships are the ones who spend time with friends and other family, often without their spouse being there.  One of my friends teaches yoga on the side and has great friendships with a lot of the women she's met through yoga.  They go away together, sometimes for a day, sometimes for a weekend. 

Again, just speaking from my own experience, I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone I was dating kept ditching friends to be with me, probably because I've had this happen, specifically with my BPD friend.  We would make plans, and she would cancel on me at the last minute.  I later found out that it was because she was spending the weekend with her boyfriend instead.  If she wanted to do that, fine, but then don't make plans with me.  I also had a non-BPD friend in college who would do this to me all the time, and it hurts a lot. 

[Skip]

This is where the divorce group is not helpful, they see a situation and they are supportive. They see me happy and they support it.

We support you too. Fast or not, you have made a pretty significant commitment to this family unit and we want to help you navigate that.

[Hisaccount]

Again I really appreciate conversing on this board, you guys are intelligent, thoughtful, considerate and compassionate. So thank you.
And I don't mean to leave anyone out when responding to questions, but as you guys know what we live and try to portray here is so different because we cannot portray everything clearly or decide what details will always be helpful and I tend to ramble anyway.

Do you really believe this,  I mean,  at your core?

Do I completely believe I am awesome, Yes I do. I know any woman would be lucky to have me.  But you have to understand how hard that is for me to say. Until therapy I would have never said that out loud. But we have to be honest in order to make progress and I have gone back to not saying it. So that is definitely not the problem.
No I don't think I am better than anyone else and I have only ever said to anyone once and that was telling my ex that she was making a mistake.
My moral compass is guided by the bible for as long as I can remember. It has greatly influenced my choices in life. Am I awesome, Yes, and so is every person reading this forum. It also says be humble and modest, so do I need to tell people how awesome I am? Never. Actions are enough, besides what I do, I do for the lord and I look to him for the reward. I do my best to be the husband and father I am supposed to be. Even when nobody is watching.
If a fork falls on the floor do you use it anyway? Even if nobody saw it? God Saw it, so in the sink it goes. I take the worst or smallest portion, does anyone notice? God is the only one but that is all that matters to me. I know I gave the best to everyone else. I am second. 
God made us exactly the way we are and he doesn't make mistakes. Not trying to turn this into a religious discussion but I stayed with my BPD ex for 10 years and didn't give up because of the promise I made to her before God. For years I prayed that God would either change her or change me in order to improve the relationship.
When she divorced me, it didn't seem like it at the time, but it was actually an answer to my prayers. Not the one I was hoping for, looking for, or expected but it is the answer God gave me and I had no control over it. I also have no guilt over it either. Could probably not have turned out any better.

Again, just speaking from my own experience, I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone I was dating kept ditching friends to be with me,

I understand what you are saying completely, so I agree completely, the difference is we are 3 hours apart, so If I get a chance to go up on an unexpected day or night she will make time for me.
She still does things with her friends and so far they seem to be understanding about why she cancels.
If we were together day and night like normal couples I then think cancelling would be weird.

As far as working on myself through detaching while single steps. Well yeah I need to do that. Working on ourselves should be something we never stop doing.

I would agree with everyone who says it is too soon. Logic says I need more time.
But I offer you this, when is love logical? Can we control where our hearts go? Where is the guide for that one?
Can you say I will not love because I am not ready yet?
Then where is the checklist to complete to let me know If I am ready?
We can say we do not want a relationship because we are not ready, but if there is truly love there, then would it matter?
And this is part of my problem, maybe I see love differently, love is unconditional. If you truly love someone you love them for their good and their bad. You are there to help them grow, you are there to make them a better person as they are that to you in return.
My litmus test is, Lock her in the trunk for 2 hours, if she is happy to see you when you open the trunk that is unconditional love.
Okay just kidding. But my dog would be happy to see me.

I have sat on this couch I am writing you from, Happy, content, looking and planning MY future. Then this desire to spend more time with one certain person started creeping in and growing. My joy and happiness increases from talking to her or even thinking about her. She makes me a better person.

When I am sitting beside her I have no fear, no thoughts of failure, but when I am alone they creep in and nag me.
My thoughts are not of wanting more time alone, or away from them. Just the opposite. I want more of all of them.
But being apart I start to have doubts. I spend time over analyzing, trying to find fault that just isn't there.
I am starting to believe these are just the scares of a BPD betrayal and they will always be there even if I waited another 10 years and will fight it until someone doesn't betray me.

She is aware of all of this and we talk about it all the time. She has been very supportive and understanding. She has always done her best to squash those doubts, but come on she is going to get sick of it at some point. Everyone would.
This is not much unlike what she has gone through has caused her reservations. It was brought up earlier in the thread about what her life experiences where like.
Her first husband was abusive she thought she would be dead by now if he hadn't been killed in a motorcycle crash. Her second husband became abusive after getting into drugs and now is in Jail for a very long time.
So she fears I will become abusive. Which she doesn't bring up often but I call her out on it when I catch it. LOL
I know she is drawn to me because I have never been in trouble, I have never done drugs. Never hit a woman. My own sons have told her I never get mad, she asked all of them after the first one said that. My kids all told her what a wonderful parent I am. I am secure and stable and safe. I am everything she hasn't ever had.
But I also don't look anything like the guys she dated. Plus I am older, I don't have an exciting career, I don't bar hop or party, I am not social butterfly. She doesn't have a history of giving up, even in an abusive situation so maybe that is my fear, that I am a dimly lit star at this point in her life and I will soon be out shown after she heals more.   (Her last long relationship was about 4 years ago, I have been the longest since)
Or does she really want to build a life with me?
Or will she stick to her word only to be miserable with me for the rest of her life? Is that my fear? That I will somehow hold her back?
That isn't for me to decide is it. But I am older, shouldn't I know better? (laugh that was funny)

She says all the right things, she does all the right things. Why do I keep looking for fault?
My fear of her growing tired of hearing about my fears, or the fear that it will somehow tarnish her opinion of me is why I am here looking for a cause and steps to a solution.
I guess the cause is simple, it is the BPD betrayal. The solution is not so simple. Even with all of the healing and self help. I don't think a feeling so deeply rooted can go away.
So maybe my only chance is to hold on and let the happiness I have with her overflow from me until I have no room for the doubts or the scares left from the past.
Can this all be just a side effect from a long distance relationship?

[Tobiasfunke]

Yes. I feel the same. Way out of my league. But I have had this conversation with her. I'm sure we have some preexisting or post traumatic self esteem issues. Intelectually speaking in sure if you write done all the positive things she's in you it's a no brainer what she sees in you. But like you, emotionally I feel like I am not up to level. I feel we both should just enjoy being in the much healthier relationships we are in now.

[livednlearned]

I would agree with everyone who says it is too soon. Logic says I need more time.
But I offer you this, when is love logical? Can we control where our hearts go? Where is the guide for that one?
Can you say I will not love because I am not ready yet?

I think there's a middle way here 

You can love this woman and prepare for a life with her. Meanwhile, you can live separately and let things grow slowly. I agree that it's much easier to work through stuff (like the doubts bugging you... .) when you're single. I also understand sometimes you meet a person and things just feel right.

I am in a loving relationship with a man (my current SO) who dated me too soon.

SO separated from his BPDx in June 5 years ago and we went on our first date the following December, not a lot of time to heal. Like you, he was in a loveless marriage living nearly separately for many years. I had been single for 2 years with a lot of therapy before and after the divorce from my BPDx.

Advice and support from friends here was to slow my roll and I'm glad I did.

It make our relationship better.

We slow dated for 3 years. We both ended up renting near each other. It made a ton of sense to move in together financially and I'm grateful we did not cave to that pressure.

Having three years of dating without living together gave us something priceless. Without this work, I don't think we would've lasted our first year living together. Those first three years made it possible to slowly reveal ourselves and our vulnerability through actions. Having the choice to return to the relationship when it wasn't imposed on us (by lease or mortgage) make us less emotionally reactive, so we could work focus on things at the right scale, if that makes sense. And not get drowned in double tsunamis where both of us were overwhelmed and triggered by unresolved griefs.

Chances are, both of you have a ton of work to do in this area. People don't end up in abusive relationships and stay without missing some important relationship skills. Just the fact you are feeling plagued with doubts is a sign there is work to do. You -- not other people -- are trying to get your own attention. It may be that she is wonderful and you two will end up together. But some part of you knows that this is moving too quickly and is trying desperately to wave you down.

You don't have to end the relationship. You are moving very quickly, and I think you know that.

It's probably a good idea to take a step back and see what comes up. Nothing like a good boundary reset to see what the relationship is made of, and learn some things about yourself and her.

 

[Hisaccount]

She is going to get an apartment for now and we will just see how it goes as nobody can predict the future.

I sure do appreciate everyone's input. I do worry I will lose her but then it wasn't meant to be I guess.

Once accepting that, I see that I have already started putting up walls to protect myself, expecting failure.
I am pretty confident it will drive her away as she has already said I am colder and more distant. 

We have a big weekend planned. we will see how it goes.

 

[Skip]

I am pretty confident it will drive her away as she has already said I am colder and more distant. 

Relationships do not respond well to backing off... .and this was a backing off decision. You can't avoid that. She probably doesn't understand. Almost nothing you could say in the moment will help.

A lot has to do with how you respond going forward.

We have a big weekend planned. we will see how it goes.

My advice - don't JADE. This will dig the hole and make matters worse.

Instead, give her a new "going forward" plans / ideas and work out a new plan together. You can say write off the change of plans to you the relationship, not the circumstances determine a major move live living together.  As far as a new love plan, let her know that you want a long term relationship with her and talk about your (both) plans and timing for the next step.  Make it fun. Romantic.

You may want to test some ideas here.

[Hisaccount]

Moderation I don't think I have a grasp on yet.

Coming from a relationship that started out with love bombing, then to this is a totally different scenario probably feeds my fears she will betray me as well.

But when it comes to me, I believe if we are committed to a person we are all in. To me there is no in between. I think we deserve that in return, but we cannot control others we can only control ourselves.

I believe she deserves all of me. I don't know how to do just part of me. 

So setting new boundaries and new love plan I have no idea how to do.

Until we can sit down face to face this weekend and talk about it I don't know how to act.

[Skip]

Until we can sit down face to face this weekend and talk about it I don't know how to act.

Women expect men to lead, in general. When you made a unilateral decision to change the game plan, its really important to comeback with a meaningful new direction.

If you are looking for her to take the lead or to heap all of your internal insecurities as the driver, watch out.

Moderation I don't think I have a grasp on yet. But when it comes to me, I believe if we are committed to a person we are all in. To me there is no in between.  

You changed the co-habitation plan - you are clearly somewhere in between. Where is that? She needs to know or it will start to break things down. It could be a simple as, I want respect and do right by this relationships and make decisions that will strengthen us long term. Cancelling to cohab does this by _________. We can then focus on ___________

So setting new boundaries and new love plan I have no idea how to do.

Do you have your values clearly in mind... .boundaries are about values... .without the values, they are just "my ways".
https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

[kim2017]

Hello,

Maybe I can help you by giving you a glimpse into possibly her perspective. I dated someone for 2 years and from the moment I met him, I fell in love with him and from the moment he met me, he kept saying "I feel like one day you will wake up and realize you're too good for me and that I'm out of your league."

I saw him as handsome and super successful. He saw himself as not so good looking, fat, and not as accomplished as he wanted to be.

I thought he was wealthy, in so many ways - not just material but in kindness, in his heart, in his generosity with me and everyone. When we were together and around other people who had bigger better "things" he always said to me "you can do so much better."

All I ever wanted was him - he was enough. But he never felt it. So he kept looking and looking for things. First few dates he asked me if I was bulimic bec I kept going to the bathroom. I drink a lot of water. Then he asked if I was ever "abused" and I told him I grew up in the most loving, nurturing family. I do not know what abuse is.

I didn't need his money, his house, his help with kids. I needed him and his love nothing else -- but he could never see it.

He never felt like he was worthy of the love I was giving him so one day, he started making accusations that I couldn't bear anymore. I couldn't bear his suspicions and I told him, no matter how much love and attention I give you, its never enough.

So he couldn't bear his perceived (bec it was only a perception) of inequality between us. He cut me off like I never existed in his life. We didn't live together but all my stuff was at his house and we were going to get married. He would say to me, I don't want to get married but with you - I want to announce to the world that I have landed the most beautiful woman.

Its been almost 8 months. I have not heard from him and he's never looked back. Cut me off like I was the plague.The only time I heard from him was a long string of drunken texts where he said "I wish your love was real. Why did it have to be fake. Why couldn't you love me the way I loved you." I could have turned blue assuring him and he would have never believed it.

So my advice to you is believe her when she tells you she loves you. Believe that you are lovable and that there are reasons - just being you - that she loves you. Have faith that you can find love and that she's not with you for any reason other than wanting to be loved by you.

Hope that helps.

[Hisaccount]

Women expect men to lead, in general. When you made a unilateral decision to change the game plan, its really important to comeback with a meaningful new direction.

If you are looking for her to take the lead or to heap all of your internal insecurities as the driver, watch out.
 Cancelling to cohab does this by _________. We can then focus on ___________[/i]

This we decided upon mutually, We are paying for a 6 month lease which is more money than a 12, so you see the direction it is still headed.

We agreed on it because this was a long distance relationship. being thrown into a full house overnight with a "stranger" is a lot to handle. This will also give us a place to escape the kids for a little bit if needed and a place to store stuff until my house is finished.
So it was an easy conversation to go that way. I was able to get there without any indication that I might have reservations.

She also has anxiety issues, so having been with a BPD ex I do know how to lead and be strong for her.  How to read her and control the situation as so it doesn't send her into a panic.
But that is also why I am as honest as I can be with her but I am not brutally honest with her and why I dump all that stuff here.
I should ad that I will be brutally honest with her if my fears are real and I am a broken me and cannot be repaired. I am not trying to hide it or mislead her. Just don't want to cause a false alarm panic either.

I bought time basically.

[Skip]

I bought time basically.

Smart. And you have buy in. Double smart.

I should ad that I will be brutally honest with her if my fears are real and I am a broken me and cannot be repaired.

What do you mean by:
~brutally honest
~fears are real
~I am a broken me and cannot be repaired

[Hisaccount]

So my advice to you is believe her when she tells you she loves you. Believe that you are lovable and that there are reasons - just being you - that she loves you. Have faith that you can find love and that she's not with you for any reason other than wanting to be loved by you.

Hope that helps.

"I feel like one day you will wake up and realize you're too good for me and that I'm out of your league."

I have said those exact same words to her,  really have to say thank you for this post, it was amazing to me. I can relate to the things he told you. I may see myself differently than he did, but nevertheless I don't feel good enough for her.
She is that special to me.

So I am looking for the help that he needed. I don't want to destroy this. I am doing this to myself.

There are things that pop up that stick with you. Things not always meant the way they came out. My GF said one night that she only got married the second time because she was pushed into it.
So I examine that over and over and try to figure out what she was really saying.
Is she saying that because she regrets the marriage?
Or is it because it excuses why she is with me when I am nothing like anyone else she ever dated?
Then it creates this fear in me that says will I ever really know she would marry me because it was her choice?
Or will I always question I pushed her into it.

Then that all circles back to, if I pushed her into it she will eventually end up leaving me or betraying me like everyone else so why bother trying at all?

I brought that topic up with her once and it got sidetracked, but not on purpose.

Last week the lottery was $750 million. I was driving back from seeing her and thought about what if I won it, would I tell her?
I think the answer should be yes, because that is a relationship, you don't keep secrets right?
But on the other hand I decided that no I would not. At least not for a while.
It's not about the money, I don't care about that.
I guess I want to know I married for love.  

I am self defeating. I don't understand why. As I spend more time pondering this subject it is not about my BPD ex, it is about my whole life and relationships my whole life.
My parents never abandoned me. So it is not some childhood trauma or fear, but more of a pattern of behavior that is out of my control.
How many times I have heard I love you and I will never leave you only to be sitting here alone, again.
 
Is it me? I don't think so because even my mentally ill ex said she was a fool for leaving me, but she still left, all of my exs have tried to come back. So I don't think it is me.

Is this a wound time will heal?  
 

[Hisaccount]

What do you mean by:
~brutally honest
~fears are real
~I am a broken me and cannot be repaired

When I read back over that quick, to me it sounded like I was not being honest about my feelings and doubts with my GF and that is not the case.
I do choose my words more carefully and sugar coat it some with her, and even it the topic looks like it is causing her stress I will back off.
Where as here I can say whatever and I know it will not hurt, undermine or cause seeds of doubt in our relationship.

I am not afraid to break this off if I think it is not the best for her or me. Until then I don't want her to know I was even considering it.

Like Kim posted if I keep going I fear paranoia will get the best of me and I will ruin it. That is not fair to my gf to drag her in if I am having feelings I cannot control about our outcome.

[livednlearned]

Like Kim posted if I keep going I fear paranoia will get the best of me and I will ruin it.

When your paranoia is triggered, what typically happens next (for you, for GF)?

Are there any patterns you can identify when you start to feel paranoid? Specific triggers?

[Hisaccount]

When your paranoia is triggered, what typically happens next (for you, for GF)?

Are there any patterns you can identify when you start to feel paranoid? Specific triggers?

You know that is a very good point, I should be journaling it. It is like Duh.

Very good question. Sitting here from what I can remember. The feeling or thoughts are started typically with depression. Very mild depression. I mean I am happy. But I am thinking it starts after seeing her, or maybe even a phone call with her. I am sad to let her go and sometimes, with the kids around all the time now I don't feel like I get the attention I deserve maybe?
Or I just won't let myself be happy?

Then I talk to her soon after and let her know how I am feeling, that she is really awesome and deserves better. Or she is out of my league.
Then she will overwhelmingly do her best to calm my fears. Saying things like she loves me and she is not going anywhere so I need to suck it up and get used to it,  Or that I need to stop that thinking right now because she is the lucky one.

Our time right now is often limited or not private so it is difficult to go into detail and have in depth conversations.

Now this is where I know I fail, when she reassures me and she does a great job, but she never goes into detail about why she is with me. Like that I am everything she dreamed of, or that I am handsome or things like that which I got during unhealthy love bombing and those are the things I am looking for.
She has said all those things before. Just not when I need to hear them most.

She tells me she appreciates me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me, but never really says why.

She is a different person, this is a healthy relationship by all standards, so the problem is in me.

I cannot tell her I need to hear this or that because then it feels like it was forced or she is just filling out boxes of a checklist which I had done for years in my past relationship. send emails, check, send cards, check, send flowers, check, send text, check, call, check. 

Not hearing those things, even though logic says it is not healthy only allows more doubt to slip in. So after she has done her best to calm my fears I get a little bump in thinking it will be ok, but then I dissect it use it to feed my paranoia and feel like I never should have said anything.

When we are together, even with kids there. I want her to run up, throw her arms around me and tell me she loves me. For no reason at all.
She is like that, but the kids tend to tackle her before she gets to me, so instead I feel slighted and I stand quietly back and be the ever watchful and protective Dad instead of fighting for my time.

You know, that might actually be where my thoughts and feelings start, probably that moment. I will have to watch for that next time.
I think I see her alone tomorrow night so that will help to see what happens.

Thanks guys,

[takingandsending]

I don't feel like I get the attention I deserve maybe?
Or I just won't let myself be happy?

Then I talk to her soon after and let her know how I am feeling, that she is really awesome and deserves better. Or she is out of my league.
Then she will overwhelmingly do her best to calm my fears. Saying things like she loves me and she is not going anywhere so I need to suck it up and get used to it,  Or that I need to stop that thinking right now because she is the lucky one.

Now this is where I know I fail, when she reassures me and she does a great job, but she never goes into detail about why she is with me. Like that I am everything she dreamed of, or that I am handsome or things like that which I got during unhealthy love bombing and those are the things I am looking for.
She has said all those things before. Just not when I need to hear them most.

Hi Hisaccount.

First, congratulations. It really looks like you are attracting something different with the possibility of healthier and more fulfilling. That's pretty awesome. 

I share my thoughts in the hopes that they help you both have that possibility for support and happiness. You are looking for reassurance about the doubts that you have in yourself. I get it. I do that too. Even though externally and through your faith, you know that you are awesome; inwardly, you doubt it, don't trust it, don't believe it. At least from your posts, that's what comes across. So you want the love bombing, the absolute assurance that she really sees how great you are. But you know, it will never answer those doubts, distrust and disbelief.

How can you answer them? What can you do for yourself to answer those questions? Because whatever that is, it will help you maybe build a life with this lovely person who has entered your life.

There was a reason that the love bombing was so darned irresistible when your xBPD provided that. You craved it. Truth is, if you ascribe to humility, that love bombing might be a real red flag, but it wasn't. Wasn't for me either (or at least wasn't enough of a red flag to overcome my starvation for it). But someone being steadily interested, steadily there, steadily meeting you right where you are - doesn't that sound like a more sustainable foundation for loving kindness?

My T recently suggested to me that there was a different way than pitching into a relationship, sharing all of me, letting all of my boundaries down ... .that possibly, a healthier way was to share a little and observe my friend's reaction. Is she seeing me, validating, reflecting, absorbed in herself, distracted? And slowly, ease into sharing more based upon those reactions, to let more of myself be revealed the more she chooses to reveal of herself, to learn how to support each other in being ourselves in stages. I think this is sort of what Livednlearned is talking about. Mind you, I haven't done any of that. But I was just trying to feel out how to even go about it, because I always thought loving someone was surrendering oneself unconditionally to the other. But, truthfully, that was just my dynamic in my FOO, it was the things that gave me the approval and love that I was seeking as a child from a parent. Did my parents overtly demand it of me? No. But the picture I formed in my mind was that that was what was required to be seen, valued and loved. And covertly, yes, my parents, as much as I love them, rewarded that approach over others.

I think there is space for you to grow into this relationship, for both of you. Share a little. Be willing to be honest and vulnerable about your need to be reassured. And then observe. Does she reflect, seek to assure to minimize your need, or just see you as you are without judgments - someone trying to work it out, with flaws and needs and vulnerabilities, maybe even encourage you to explore that pain. What would that be like?

[livednlearned]

Not hearing those things, even though logic says it is not healthy only allows more doubt to slip in. So after she has done her best to calm my fears I get a little bump in thinking it will be ok, but then I dissect it use it to feed my paranoia and feel like I never should have said anything.

There is a dialectical skill called opposite action -- where you do not invalidate your emotions, instead you transform them into something that brings about a healthy outcome.

I think you are working toward that  

From the example you gave us, it sounds like two emotion states.

The first one is fear she is rejecting you, or will reject you.
The second one seems like a combination of guilt (asking her for too much) and shame (for being needy).

I'm guessing at this. There may be more accuracy based on what's going on, in your words.

Let's say the first feeling, rejection, is something for you to own. Instead of pushing her away with paranoia, you might reach toward her (with confidence) and suggest a proactive way to spend time together.

"Maybe later this week we can spend some time together, just the two of us. It's so great having you and the kids here and I love the time we have. I could also feel myself getting a little distant and want to make sure I don't disappear on you. I do that when I feel ________."

Or something like that? In your words.

Nothing sexier than a guy who takes care of his own feelings and has a plan  

As for the guilt and shame, it seems like it's connected to neediness. Asking her to reassure you won't take care of your emotional needs (for reassurance) because the person responsible for tending to it is you. If you give her a heads up what is happening (I'm feeling ______) and give her something practical she can do (schedule time just the two of you, around her schedule as mom), you will reassure her that you got this. 

[Hisaccount]

There was a reason that the love bombing was so darned irresistible when your xBPD provided that. You craved it. Truth is, if you ascribe to humility, that love bombing might be a real red flag, but it wasn't. Wasn't for me either (or at least wasn't enough of a red flag to overcome my starvation for it). But someone being steadily interested, steadily there, steadily meeting you right where you are - doesn't that sound like a more sustainable foundation for loving kindness?

The first one is fear she is rejecting you, or will reject you.
The second one seems like a combination of guilt (asking her for too much) and shame (for being needy).

You guys are right, I thought I was solid. But all of you cannot be wrong. While reading and studying last night i realized I do have self doubt and insecurities that I am looking for others to control for me.

I spent so much time in self reflection, growth, recovery, therapy. It was all in my own little world, population one.
My world is now population two and that is a dynamic I haven't had to deal with for a long time. Even during my marriage, my ex had an opinion but I didn't let her get to me because of her condition. So during that time is when my world became population one. Apparently I have been living that way for years.
I was not controlling over overbearing but as I said before I mostly viewed her as another teenager or a retarded child and of course I loved and cared for her just like the other kids. Not like a spouse.
Now I have met someone that has an opinion that I actually care about and it has changed the dynamic and left me with doubts.

When I was planning my life alone I was in complete control. At the end of the day it was just me. Nobody could hurt me. That is no longer the case. She got in. I didn't plan for it. I didn't try. It just happened.
I didn't believe it was possible.

After all of the dating failures I didn't think there was anything left of me that could care for someone else.


I do miss the love bombing, even though it is not healthy. I still miss it.
Up until I started dating this gal I often said I wanted that part of the relationship. Who wouldn't. But you are correct, it is not sustainable or healthy.

This girl was around for a long time before we dated. She knows me pretty well, she was a friend while i dated others and while I was going through recovery.
So she knows what bothers me, she is trying. I don't give her enough credit.

She had me help her recover some online accounts. She changed the contact information a week later, but then sent me the updated contact information and passwords. (without me asking)
I am not going to snoop. I am not like that, It was that act that showed trust and she wants to share her life with me completely.  I needed that. I wanted that. Is that wrong? To feel trusted? To enjoy knowing she trusts me like that?
But then that is seeking external validation and that is wrong.

We are never going to start a relationship without baggage again and that sucks.

I am needy, She knows everything I went through and she is doing her best to understand as much as someone who hasn't been through it can.

Last night out of the blue she says she hopes I ask her to marry her someday because she wants to spend the rest of her life with me.
That is a pretty bold statement for someone if she really didn't want to be with me.

looks like I need to go back through some of the healing steps only now I have a different perspective when approaching it.

You guys are awesome.

[spacecadet]

This is highly individual, so take it fwiw, but a woman moving to my area long distance just for the r/s, who says she hopes you get married one day... .drops not only her mail friends but her female friends too. That feels uncomfortably fast for me. Especially LD, she has kids, you're not over the trauma of your r/s w/BP. These would all warning signals for me, not necessarily to cut things loose but definitely to take it slow.
My 2 cents.